Aleax Broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aleax Broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ashaman82
07-27-04, 08:09 PM I dont know if this has been posted else where but to me the template called Aleax is way too powerfull. As a recap it is a creature sent by a god to take retribution on an individual for something.

The template works by taking the individual targeted, copying it and then adding a few more powers. Hmmm thats quite hard i thought, then i saw that only the targeted individual can hurt it nothing else. OK thats very hard but still killable with the right equipment but no it gets all the targeted individuals equipment as well.

As a example you could send it against Asmodeus at start it off on the first level of hell and it could walk all the way through hell untouched get to Asmodeus and if i am correct kick his ass.

I know that each deity can only have one at a time but still you would have thought that Aleax assasinations would be poping up all the time. That is not really the point of this thread though, can anyone work out a way to kill it. If i have miss read something and there really is an easy way to kill the thing please reply in nice small words as i shall be feeling like an idiot so might as well be treated like one.
:D
ardalor
07-27-04, 08:38 PM Apologize? ;)

Seriously, I don't think there's anything you can do to stop an aleax. Except maybe build a wall in front of it, and then behind it, and then above it, and then hope that it suffocates.

The reason the gods haven't given Asmodeus (or Demogorgon, for that matter) the proverbial ale-ax (;)) is that...um...it costs too much XP. They need their precious XP, yes. For their super-powerful magic items that they don't give to anybody and never use. They just sit there, gathering dust. So then the god needs a super-powerful magic duster, to clean up all the dust being gathered by these godly magic items. The god could have installed a natural "dust-resister" on them, but nooo... Stupid Helm.
Santherus
07-28-04, 09:26 AM a high con opponent should mince the thing - as a construct, the aleax has no HP bonii: should hope that you win by attrition (enhance your HP).

Your friends can't hinder it - but they can help you via healing etc. A little lateral thinking and teamwork should go a long way to putting one of these down.
wdarkk
07-28-04, 10:06 PM Any Epic creature worth its salt with access to spellcasting should be able to paste those things like it was nothing, unless you rely way too much on mind-affecting and death effects. Just get a +8 or so to Con and kill it with a butter knife. Asmodeus has a citadel the size of a continent or more. He can afford some Con boost items.
ardalor
07-28-04, 10:09 PM I still maintain that the gods are too stingy with their XP. If you need proof, just look at the Watcher's Keep dungeon in the Baldur's Gate 2 expansion. "enchantment wore off" my arse. He's a freaking god; he can cast a bloody Permanency spell if he needs to...
DavidY
07-29-04, 12:14 AM Well yes, but it's not like demogorgan wasn't trying to dispel it or anything, which was the reason given for the ward decaying.
Wayne
08-05-04, 11:54 AM I think the "just get more HP" crowd might be forgetting that what makes the Aleax so powerful isn't its Fast Healing or SR or such... it's that unlimited Shapechange. And, just like the crazily overpowered spell, it usurps the Aleax's type (so its new form gets its normal Con and bonus HP, since it's no longer a Construct for the duration) and gives it the new form's Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities (and the Aleax keeps his own). Their example is an Aleax of Bahamut becoming a Gold Dragon... in a fair fight between a 20th level PC without caster levels and a 20th level Aleax that can turn into a fire-breathing scaly terror, I'm going with the Aleax. :D

That being said, due to the nature of high-level magic a caster PC (especially a Druid) probably has the best shot at beating one. Anyone who can punish form-changing enemies has a big advantage as well, since the Aleax's benefits aren't that hard for a PC to acquire (and, like Santherus mentioned, a PC's buddies can help him out) to otherwise even the playing field.

Since Aleaxs have that "Singular Enemy" power thanks to being directly created by a deity, I'd allow Epic characters the chance to hurt one that wasn't meant for it (if Epic characters can kill gods, then they can certainly kill these "fragments of divine power" the deity sends out for revenge-- though naturally by doing so they probably risk Aleaxs of their own). There was probably no provision for that in the BOED since they try not to overlap material from non-Core books (and only Deities and Demigods has provisions for deity-slaying :D).

And finally, as to why deities wouldn't send them against enemies like Asmodeus... probably two reasons for that. One, there's the typical "deities respect Asmodeus" nonsense (basically, the same reason deities don't come and kill him personally-- even though by the stats they easily could-- is the reason they don't seen divine duplicated assassins after him either). Two, and probably better if someone asks, is that any given deity can only send an Aleax against a victim once in its life. For powerful [immortal] enemies the deity always has to treat the decision carefully, since if the Aleax fails (which could easily happen, especially if the victim isn't alone) he'll never get another shot at it. In fact, a deity that really wants revenge for some transgression would think long and carefully about using an Aleax for that reason.
Pennywise
08-06-04, 02:21 AM I never really got why Gods stopped trying to kill you after you defeat their Aleax...

"I was going to crush your body and rend your soul into tiny pieces for torching that packed orphanage, but since you slew the Aleax I guess I can let it slide this time."

As for the Aleax: The text explaining it's battle techniques makes it seem to be a creature that will fight in a much more agressive fashion than is needed. After all, it is a sliver of a God that is really, REALLY angry at you. So it shouldn't be too hard to make the thing charge through various hazards and/or traps in an attempt to kill you.
Arquinsiel
08-06-04, 10:35 AM There is the other reason they don't try and whack Asmodeus: They KNOW him. Sure, he may be a super-powerful and unpredictable opponent when you're a 20th level human but when you've had all eternity to get to know him and deific inteligence behind you he and his scheming becomes a lot less difficult to deal with. And who knows what might replace him if he were to be killed? Better the enemy you know and all that.
ardalor
08-06-04, 02:01 PM I still stand by my "the gods must be lazy" argument.

that, and killing an Aleax actually makes the person who killed it more powerful. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to send my enemy a boon like that, even if he did have to fight it first.
Shemeska the Marauder
08-07-04, 09:07 AM Go read the flavor text for the 2e Aleax and then get back to us, it explains what the 3e flavor text doesn't really say. It's less an assassin of the gods than it is a tool of redemption for a gods followers who stray from their path in some fierce way.

A high priest of a deity who gets it into his head to go out and butcher anyone who doesn't convert in the name of his LG deity is asking to have his own deity send an Aleax after him to show him the error of his ways.

And as for why a given deity doesn't mess with the archfiends ie Asmodeus, Demogorgon, the Oinoloth, etc. ? Simple, the fiends control the entirety of a plane that they're native to, have been there since before the deities existed, and are largely ambivalent to all of the deities with domains on a given plane they reside on. It serves no purpose for a deity to **** off the neighbors essentially when those neighbors will then proceed to take it out on your followers in spite when they otherwise wouldn't have reason to really do so in any directed manner.

As well, lets say a LG deity decides to take out a CE archfiend. He'll be drawing the immediate ire of every CE deity on that plane and signing his own life away effectively. Even if you don't assume the Archfiends have personal power on the level of deities (this varies by edition of the game) gods don't directly mess with the fiends and the fiends don't directly mess with gods. The gods originally had a direct roll in the Blood War, it ended poorly for them... since that point, no true deity has actively taken part in that most singular affair of the fiends.

Plus the fact that Khin-Oin the Wasting Tower is carved from the spine of a dead god probably makes any deity sit back and pause, not wanting to give the Yugoloths any additional architecture...
Schmendrick
08-09-04, 05:19 PM There's one easy.. almost cheap... way out of an aleax (so cheap, in fact, that a deity should really consider it before sending an aleax).

Assuming your aleax doesn't restrict your [and your allies', because they can still aid indirectly] access stealthily before attacking you, just whack it with a weapon of... disruption, is it? Insta-kill for constructs on a crit (IIRC).
Ramaloke
08-09-04, 05:24 PM if your a wizard, and an aleax is after you, it'll take the hummanoid subtype as per shapechange so it will be affected by death effects, as a wizard, you have a crappy fort save, that might toast it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ashaman82 07-27-04, 08:09 PM	I dont know if this has been posted else where but to me the template called Aleax is way too powerfull. As a recap it is a creature sent by a god to take retribution on an individual for something. The template works by taking the individual targeted, copying it and then adding a few more powers. Hmmm thats quite hard i thought, then i saw that only the targeted individual can hurt it nothing else. OK thats very hard but still killable with the right equipment but no it gets all the targeted individuals equipment as well. As a example you could send it against Asmodeus at start it off on the first level of hell and it could walk all the way through hell untouched get to Asmodeus and if i am correct kick his ass. I know that each deity can only have one at a time but still you would have thought that Aleax assasinations would be poping up all the time. That is not really the point of this thread though, can anyone work out a way to kill it. If i have miss read something and there really is an easy way to kill the thing please reply in nice small words as i shall be feeling like an idiot so might as well be treated like one. :D
ardalor 07-27-04, 08:38 PM	Apologize? ;) Seriously, I don't think there's anything you can do to stop an aleax. Except maybe build a wall in front of it, and then behind it, and then above it, and then hope that it suffocates. The reason the gods haven't given Asmodeus (or Demogorgon, for that matter) the proverbial ale-ax (;)) is that...um...it costs too much XP. They need their precious XP, yes. For their super-powerful magic items that they don't give to anybody and never use. They just sit there, gathering dust. So then the god needs a super-powerful magic duster, to clean up all the dust being gathered by these godly magic items. The god could have installed a natural "dust-resister" on them, but nooo... Stupid Helm.
Santherus 07-28-04, 09:26 AM	a high con opponent should mince the thing - as a construct, the aleax has no HP bonii: should hope that you win by attrition (enhance your HP). Your friends can't hinder it - but they can help you via healing etc. A little lateral thinking and teamwork should go a long way to putting one of these down.
wdarkk 07-28-04, 10:06 PM	Any Epic creature worth its salt with access to spellcasting should be able to paste those things like it was nothing, unless you rely way too much on mind-affecting and death effects. Just get a +8 or so to Con and kill it with a butter knife. Asmodeus has a citadel the size of a continent or more. He can afford some Con boost items.
ardalor 07-28-04, 10:09 PM	I still maintain that the gods are too stingy with their XP. If you need proof, just look at the Watcher's Keep dungeon in the Baldur's Gate 2 expansion. "enchantment wore off" my arse. He's a freaking god; he can cast a bloody Permanency spell if he needs to...
DavidY 07-29-04, 12:14 AM	Well yes, but it's not like demogorgan wasn't trying to dispel it or anything, which was the reason given for the ward decaying.
Wayne 08-05-04, 11:54 AM	I think the "just get more HP" crowd might be forgetting that what makes the Aleax so powerful isn't its Fast Healing or SR or such... it's that unlimited Shapechange. And, just like the crazily overpowered spell, it usurps the Aleax's type (so its new form gets its normal Con and bonus HP, since it's no longer a Construct for the duration) and gives it the new form's Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities (and the Aleax keeps his own). Their example is an Aleax of Bahamut becoming a Gold Dragon... in a fair fight between a 20th level PC without caster levels and a 20th level Aleax that can turn into a fire-breathing scaly terror, I'm going with the Aleax. :D That being said, due to the nature of high-level magic a caster PC (especially a Druid) probably has the best shot at beating one. Anyone who can punish form-changing enemies has a big advantage as well, since the Aleax's benefits aren't that hard for a PC to acquire (and, like Santherus mentioned, a PC's buddies can help him out) to otherwise even the playing field. Since Aleaxs have that "Singular Enemy" power thanks to being directly created by a deity, I'd allow Epic characters the chance to hurt one that wasn't meant for it (if Epic characters can kill gods, then they can certainly kill these "fragments of divine power" the deity sends out for revenge-- though naturally by doing so they probably risk Aleaxs of their own). There was probably no provision for that in the BOED since they try not to overlap material from non-Core books (and only Deities and Demigods has provisions for deity-slaying :D). And finally, as to why deities wouldn't send them against enemies like Asmodeus... probably two reasons for that. One, there's the typical "deities respect Asmodeus" nonsense (basically, the same reason deities don't come and kill him personally-- even though by the stats they easily could-- is the reason they don't seen divine duplicated assassins after him either). Two, and probably better if someone asks, is that any given deity can only send an Aleax against a victim once in its life. For powerful [immortal] enemies the deity always has to treat the decision carefully, since if the Aleax fails (which could easily happen, especially if the victim isn't alone) he'll never get another shot at it. In fact, a deity that really wants revenge for some transgression would think long and carefully about using an Aleax for that reason.
Pennywise 08-06-04, 02:21 AM	I never really got why Gods stopped trying to kill you after you defeat their Aleax... "I was going to crush your body and rend your soul into tiny pieces for torching that packed orphanage, but since you slew the Aleax I guess I can let it slide this time." As for the Aleax: The text explaining it's battle techniques makes it seem to be a creature that will fight in a much more agressive fashion than is needed. After all, it is a sliver of a God that is really, REALLY angry at you. So it shouldn't be too hard to make the thing charge through various hazards and/or traps in an attempt to kill you.
Arquinsiel 08-06-04, 10:35 AM	There is the other reason they don't try and whack Asmodeus: They KNOW him. Sure, he may be a super-powerful and unpredictable opponent when you're a 20th level human but when you've had all eternity to get to know him and deific inteligence behind you he and his scheming becomes a lot less difficult to deal with. And who knows what might replace him if he were to be killed? Better the enemy you know and all that.
ardalor 08-06-04, 02:01 PM	I still stand by my "the gods must be lazy" argument. that, and killing an Aleax actually makes the person who killed it more powerful. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to send my enemy a boon like that, even if he did have to fight it first.
Shemeska the Marauder 08-07-04, 09:07 AM	Go read the flavor text for the 2e Aleax and then get back to us, it explains what the 3e flavor text doesn't really say. It's less an assassin of the gods than it is a tool of redemption for a gods followers who stray from their path in some fierce way. A high priest of a deity who gets it into his head to go out and butcher anyone who doesn't convert in the name of his LG deity is asking to have his own deity send an Aleax after him to show him the error of his ways. And as for why a given deity doesn't mess with the archfiends ie Asmodeus, Demogorgon, the Oinoloth, etc. ? Simple, the fiends control the entirety of a plane that they're native to, have been there since before the deities existed, and are largely ambivalent to all of the deities with domains on a given plane they reside on. It serves no purpose for a deity to **** off the neighbors essentially when those neighbors will then proceed to take it out on your followers in spite when they otherwise wouldn't have reason to really do so in any directed manner. As well, lets say a LG deity decides to take out a CE archfiend. He'll be drawing the immediate ire of every CE deity on that plane and signing his own life away effectively. Even if you don't assume the Archfiends have personal power on the level of deities (this varies by edition of the game) gods don't directly mess with the fiends and the fiends don't directly mess with gods. The gods originally had a direct roll in the Blood War, it ended poorly for them... since that point, no true deity has actively taken part in that most singular affair of the fiends. Plus the fact that Khin-Oin the Wasting Tower is carved from the spine of a dead god probably makes any deity sit back and pause, not wanting to give the Yugoloths any additional architecture...
Schmendrick 08-09-04, 05:19 PM	There's one easy.. almost cheap... way out of an aleax (so cheap, in fact, that a deity should really consider it before sending an aleax). Assuming your aleax doesn't restrict your [and your allies', because they can still aid indirectly] access stealthily before attacking you, just whack it with a weapon of... disruption, is it? Insta-kill for constructs on a crit (IIRC).
Ramaloke 08-09-04, 05:24 PM	if your a wizard, and an aleax is after you, it'll take the hummanoid subtype as per shapechange so it will be affected by death effects, as a wizard, you have a crappy fort save, that might toast it.