Alkalinity? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alkalinity? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CaptFrigate
10-30-05, 01:30 AM I was thinking about chemisty the other day, and it hit me: Would damage from a high pH source be considered acid damage?

I would guess that it would, as it would be pH inflection based damage, but bases react diferent than acids, so I began to wonder.

Any thoughts?
Tyler Do'Urden
10-30-05, 01:38 AM Simplest thing to do is treat it like acid damage that cancels out true acid. Lye will burn you just as bad as HCl.

In other words, orb of base would counter orb of acid, and vice versa.

In general, it's best not to mix science and magic too much. Magic doesn't really make sense in a scientific reality. Too much science can only gunk up a magic system.
CaptFrigate
10-30-05, 01:51 AM I know, thats why it seemed to me that the best way to do it was to give it the same damage type and hae it cancel out acid, like you said.
Seeker95
10-30-05, 07:47 AM I view D&D as having a little less chemistry expertise in it than the modern world. Show a kid a bottle of acid and a bottle of base. Pour the acid on something that reacts to it and tell the kid it is acid. Then pour the base onto something that reacts to it. Ask the kid what it is. S/he will say "acid". D&D is the same, in my view: Acid it a reagent that dissolves other materials -- regardless of which side of 7 its pH may land.

As for "counters" -- you can use the same spell to counter itself. An orb of acid counters an orb of acid. Who's to say the countering spell isn't using a high pH to counter? :D
draco2005
10-30-05, 09:53 AM Actually, a high pH is basic, not acid. pH 7 is neutral. Low pH is acidic.
The Club
10-30-05, 10:38 AM Simplest thing to do is treat it like acid damage that cancels out true acid. Lye will burn you just as bad as HCl.

In other words, orb of base would counter orb of acid, and vice versa.

In general, it's best not to mix science and magic too much. Magic doesn't really make sense in a scientific reality. Too much science can only gunk up a magic system.

Then you end up with situations like this:

Hey, Xykax the Magnificent, my joint of mutton is rather bland and flavorless. Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton?

The Club
Seeker95
10-30-05, 02:24 PM Actually, a high pH is basic, not acid. pH 7 is neutral. Low pH is acidic.Where did you see that I said otherwise? (And if you are referring to a post other than mine -- appearing directly above -- you might want to reference it specifically.)
Count Arioch the 28th
10-30-05, 02:27 PM Personally, I think this is overly complex.

I'd just say that "acid" as defined byu the D&D game refers to most chemical burns.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-30-05, 04:08 PM Then you end up with situations like this:

Hey, Xykax the Magnificent, my joint of mutton is rather bland and flavorless. Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton?

The Club

I would allow that.
Seeker95
10-30-05, 04:26 PM Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton?Then I would offer that someone is going to die, or at least be forced to make a Fortitude save against poison. Not all salts are safe, and unless the acid and base happen to make NaCl and H2O, you're not likely to have a very good seasoning.

And then there is the general unlikelihood that your base and your acid are of equal pH variances from 7. When the two mix, they aren't likely to be in identical quantities, mixing completely, reaching a perfect balance of 7.

Using magic to match chemistry is going to be dangerous, at best. :D
Edymnion
10-30-05, 05:54 PM Heck, for that matter, how do you know that what D&D is calling acid really *IS* acid? I mean, it does 1d6 damage in a single round. It doesn't matter HOW strong an acid is, that is simply impossible. I don't care what movie you saw, you cannot just splash acid on something and have it immediantly start to melt.

Pure, concentrated hydrochloric acid thrown in your face can't do jack to you in only 6 seconds. Well, it'll burn like hell, thats for sure, but your flesh won't be melting off your bones for quite a while. And on metal? Forget about it, it would take DAYS for any acid known to man to eat through an iron lock.

Aka, D&D acid isn't realistic in the slightest to start with, so trying to go into this level of detail just doesn't really work. Acid, Base, magic melting potion, they're all called "acid" in D&D.
draco2005
10-30-05, 07:09 PM Seeker95, I was refering to the following statement by captfrigate:

I was thinking about chemisty the other day, and it hit me: Would damage from a high pH source be considered acid damage?
Count Arioch the 28th
10-30-05, 07:43 PM and unless the acid and base happen to make NaCl and H2O,

Sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid. You're welcome.
Count Arioch the 28th
10-30-05, 07:43 PM Pure, concentrated hydrochloric acid thrown in your face can't do jack to you in only 6 seconds.

Actually, it can blind you pretty quick, eye tissues tend to be sensitive to that sort of thing.
OmiKapSi
10-30-05, 07:56 PM Yeah, my brother was commenting recently on the nature of the spell lightning bolt, and the electrical differential that you'd have to suddenly need between two points to create an arc 30 feet long.

On topic, as was said by others, in d&d, 'acid' is not 'substance with very low ph', it is 'substance, usually liquid, that causes other substances to dissolve, with the exception of glass and maybe other materials'.

Just like 'electricity' isn't 'equalization of electron differential between two points'.
beezly
10-30-05, 08:10 PM Then you end up with situations like this:

Hey, Xykax the Magnificent, my joint of mutton is rather bland and flavorless. Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton?

The Club

Or you have the nearest gnome cast Predistigation (sp?) It flavors! It creates toys! It washes your clothes! It's AWESOME!
Seeker95
10-30-05, 10:15 PM Sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid. You're welcome.Okay, chemistry boy. Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food?

Playing with a child's chemistry set is easy.
Playing checmistry with magic probably requires a bit more accuracy than the mage is capable of accomplishing. After all, the amount of damage for both spells is a variable.
Edymnion
10-30-05, 10:22 PM On topic, as was said by others, in d&d, 'acid' is not 'substance with very low ph', it is 'substance, usually liquid, that causes other substances to dissolve, with the exception of glass and maybe other materials'.Good point. D&D acid is more of an almost True Universal Solvent.

But for the OP, yes, if you want to say that acid in your game really is acid, then a very alkaline base would also count as acid damage. Just about any substance that makes things melt would count as acid.
Waterhammer
10-30-05, 10:48 PM sodium hypochlorite tastes salty.DO NOT DRINK POISON.
Edymnion
10-30-05, 10:57 PM And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math!
Tyler Do'Urden
10-30-05, 11:12 PM Worse yet, I hear that Americans ingest literally tons of the stuff every year without ever knowing how dangerous it can be.

I knew a guy who knew a guy whose cousin died from dihydrogen monoxide asphyxiation.

Scientists have even shown that administering it to lab rats can cause cancer. Swear to multiple gods.
Surgo
10-30-05, 11:44 PM Just to get back on topic, re: seeker95
Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food?
One would think that wizards have excellent control over their spells.
Escef
10-31-05, 12:18 AM Seeker95, I was refering to the following statement by captfrigate:

I was thinking about chemisty the other day, and it hit me: Would damage from a high pH source be considered acid damage?

Umm... yeah. The original poster's point, which you so cleverly missed, was since bases and acids have similar effects on substances, should chemical burns from bases be counted as acid damage in D&D for sake of simplicity?

In other words, he knows that a high pH is a base.
The Club
10-31-05, 01:02 AM Okay, chemistry boy. Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food?

Playing with a child's chemistry set is easy.
Playing checmistry with magic probably requires a bit more accuracy than the mage is capable of accomplishing. After all, the amount of damage for both spells is a variable.

I think that any mage who knows that an acid and base react leaving water and a neutral salt can probably pick his acids and bases. The molarities should balance if the spell levels are the same. And rather than trying to collide the spells over food, it might be better to collide them over someone who's could use a good head soak and gather the precipitate up later.

The Club
The Club
10-31-05, 01:04 AM And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math!

Our rivers and lakes are FULL of the stuff! And it's all because of corporate greed!

The Club
Count Arioch the 28th
10-31-05, 05:07 AM Okay, chemistry boy. Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food?

I don't see why I deserve the general rancor in this thread. At all.
Escef
10-31-05, 05:17 AM I don't see why I deserve the general rancor in this thread. At all.

Rancor?
Seeker95
10-31-05, 11:01 AM I think that any mage who knows that an acid and base react leaving water and a neutral salt can probably pick his acids and bases. The molarities should balance if the spell levels are the same.One would think that wizards have excellent control over their spells.TThe danger in this assumption is proven out by the variable damage caused by nearly every spell ever caused by a caster. If a caster can't get a magic missile to do the same amount of damage every time, how is s/he supposed to get a specific molarity of an acid or base, much less match the molarity of another caster's spell, or even the molarity of the spell they just cast a round ago?

Wizards have remarkably little control over their spells!
Seeker95
10-31-05, 11:03 AM Rancor?Ditto. Rancor? You responded to a long post with a cutesy comment. I responded to a cutesy comment with an equally cutesy longer comment. You pulled out your chemistry knowledge, in response to my post. I applied my own chemistry knowledge to the mechanics of the game.

I intended no rancor.
Planar Wanderer
10-31-05, 11:07 AM Interestingly enough this came up in an article on the main wizards D&D site (it's a retired article but still archived), you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20050218a))I personally would rule that acid resistance is just shorthand for pH extreme resistance and leave it there, you can have you're own flavour if you like but mechanically the spell produces acid.
Surgo
11-01-05, 12:01 PM TThe danger in this assumption is proven out by the variable damage caused by nearly every spell ever caused by a caster. If a caster can't get a magic missile to do the same amount of damage every time, how is s/he supposed to get a specific molarity of an acid or base, much less match the molarity of another caster's spell, or even the molarity of the spell they just cast a round ago?
Another possibility is that, with each different damage result, the hit area was different and that's why the resulting damage was different.
green_yawgmoth
11-01-05, 12:39 PM Then I would offer that someone is going to die, or at least be forced to make a Fortitude save against poison. Not all salts are safe, and unless the acid and base happen to make NaCl and H2O, you're not likely to have a very good seasoning.I'd say that Base Spray would be sodium hydroxide, just because that's a really amusing situation. :D

Edit: beaten. >_<

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
green_yawgmoth
11-01-05, 12:42 PM And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math!
Actually, the correct terminology would be "hydrogen monoxide". (:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
FeceMan
11-01-05, 12:51 PM And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math!
You make me smile :).

Props for owning chem wiz, though, hehe.
Surgo
11-01-05, 01:02 PM Actually, the correct terminology would be "hydrogen monoxide". (:
Um, no it wouldn't. For a covalently bonded compound, you only leave off the prefix of the first atom if there is only one of it. In this case, there are two hydrogens, so dihydrogen.
green_yawgmoth
11-01-05, 01:29 PM Um, no it wouldn't. For a covalently bonded compound, you only leave off the prefix of the first atom if there is only one of it. In this case, there are two hydrogens, so dihydrogen.scroll to "exceptions" (http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/binary_covalent_nomenclature.htm). The prefixes are commonly left off, but can be applied.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Thwyvylyn
11-03-05, 02:50 AM sodium hypochlorite tastes salty.DO NOT DRINK POISON.

Why in the world would you taste Clorox bleach? :confused:
allenchan
11-03-05, 02:59 AM Why in the world would you taste Clorox bleach? :confused:

Suicidal, comes to mind.
Tyler Do'Urden
11-03-05, 04:42 AM The molarities should balance if the spell levels are the same.

I just wanted to point out that this is the single nerdiest thing I have ever seen in... at least a week.

Bravo, good sir.
OmiKapSi
11-03-05, 03:33 PM Pshhh, molarity nothing, check out this dissertation on statistics from the miniatures boards:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660225&postcount=36

This guy is my hero by the way.
Escef
11-03-05, 06:50 PM I'd just like to thank this thread for reminding me which ends of the pH scale acids and bases are on. It'd been over 10 years. It actually came in handy today, I had to take the ASVAB for my Army enlistment today. So, I owe part of my perfect ASVAB score to the WotC message boards. Hehehe. :D
OmiKapSi
11-03-05, 08:57 PM Be careful about how obvious you are about your gaming habits, apparently us gamers are poor security risks. Just run a google search for 'dungeons' 'dragons' 'security' 'clearance', and you'll pull up a number of articles on the subject.

I'm not sure if the US army has similar policies in place as the Israeli forces though.
Escef
11-03-05, 09:09 PM Yeah, I heard about that. Funny thing is my MOS requires me to have Top Secret clearence. I'm not too worried, there are a lot of gamers in the U.S. military. Heck, any kind of war simulation is effectively being a gamer. In fact, a game company helped design a table top strategy simulator for the Navy Seals.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CaptFrigate 10-30-05, 01:30 AM	I was thinking about chemisty the other day, and it hit me: Would damage from a high pH source be considered acid damage? I would guess that it would, as it would be pH inflection based damage, but bases react diferent than acids, so I began to wonder. Any thoughts?
Tyler Do'Urden 10-30-05, 01:38 AM	Simplest thing to do is treat it like acid damage that cancels out true acid. Lye will burn you just as bad as HCl. In other words, orb of base would counter orb of acid, and vice versa. In general, it's best not to mix science and magic too much. Magic doesn't really make sense in a scientific reality. Too much science can only gunk up a magic system.
CaptFrigate 10-30-05, 01:51 AM	I know, thats why it seemed to me that the best way to do it was to give it the same damage type and hae it cancel out acid, like you said.
Seeker95 10-30-05, 07:47 AM	I view D&D as having a little less chemistry expertise in it than the modern world. Show a kid a bottle of acid and a bottle of base. Pour the acid on something that reacts to it and tell the kid it is acid. Then pour the base onto something that reacts to it. Ask the kid what it is. S/he will say "acid". D&D is the same, in my view: Acid it a reagent that dissolves other materials -- regardless of which side of 7 its pH may land. As for "counters" -- you can use the same spell to counter itself. An orb of acid counters an orb of acid. Who's to say the countering spell isn't using a high pH to counter? :D
draco2005 10-30-05, 09:53 AM	Actually, a high pH is basic, not acid. pH 7 is neutral. Low pH is acidic.
The Club 10-30-05, 10:38 AM	Simplest thing to do is treat it like acid damage that cancels out true acid. Lye will burn you just as bad as HCl. In other words, orb of base would counter orb of acid, and vice versa. In general, it's best not to mix science and magic too much. Magic doesn't really make sense in a scientific reality. Too much science can only gunk up a magic system. Then you end up with situations like this: Hey, Xykax the Magnificent, my joint of mutton is rather bland and flavorless. Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton? The Club
Seeker95 10-30-05, 02:24 PM	Actually, a high pH is basic, not acid. pH 7 is neutral. Low pH is acidic.Where did you see that I said otherwise? (And if you are referring to a post other than mine -- appearing directly above -- you might want to reference it specifically.)
Count Arioch the 28th 10-30-05, 02:27 PM	Personally, I think this is overly complex. I'd just say that "acid" as defined byu the D&D game refers to most chemical burns.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-30-05, 04:08 PM	Then you end up with situations like this: Hey, Xykax the Magnificent, my joint of mutton is rather bland and flavorless. Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton? The Club I would allow that.
Seeker95 10-30-05, 04:26 PM	Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton?Then I would offer that someone is going to die, or at least be forced to make a Fortitude save against poison. Not all salts are safe, and unless the acid and base happen to make NaCl and H2O, you're not likely to have a very good seasoning. And then there is the general unlikelihood that your base and your acid are of equal pH variances from 7. When the two mix, they aren't likely to be in identical quantities, mixing completely, reaching a perfect balance of 7. Using magic to match chemistry is going to be dangerous, at best. :D
Edymnion 10-30-05, 05:54 PM	Heck, for that matter, how do you know that what D&D is calling acid really IS acid? I mean, it does 1d6 damage in a single round. It doesn't matter HOW strong an acid is, that is simply impossible. I don't care what movie you saw, you cannot just splash acid on something and have it immediantly start to melt. Pure, concentrated hydrochloric acid thrown in your face can't do jack to you in only 6 seconds. Well, it'll burn like hell, thats for sure, but your flesh won't be melting off your bones for quite a while. And on metal? Forget about it, it would take DAYS for any acid known to man to eat through an iron lock. Aka, D&D acid isn't realistic in the slightest to start with, so trying to go into this level of detail just doesn't really work. Acid, Base, magic melting potion, they're all called "acid" in D&D.
draco2005 10-30-05, 07:09 PM	Seeker95, I was refering to the following statement by captfrigate: I was thinking about chemisty the other day, and it hit me: Would damage from a high pH source be considered acid damage?
Count Arioch the 28th 10-30-05, 07:43 PM	and unless the acid and base happen to make NaCl and H2O, Sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid. You're welcome.
Count Arioch the 28th 10-30-05, 07:43 PM	Pure, concentrated hydrochloric acid thrown in your face can't do jack to you in only 6 seconds. Actually, it can blind you pretty quick, eye tissues tend to be sensitive to that sort of thing.
OmiKapSi 10-30-05, 07:56 PM	Yeah, my brother was commenting recently on the nature of the spell lightning bolt, and the electrical differential that you'd have to suddenly need between two points to create an arc 30 feet long. On topic, as was said by others, in d&d, 'acid' is not 'substance with very low ph', it is 'substance, usually liquid, that causes other substances to dissolve, with the exception of glass and maybe other materials'. Just like 'electricity' isn't 'equalization of electron differential between two points'.
beezly 10-30-05, 08:10 PM	Then you end up with situations like this: Hey, Xykax the Magnificent, my joint of mutton is rather bland and flavorless. Would you mind casting Base Spray over my food at the same time I case Acid Spray, thereby creating a neutral salt with which I may season my mutton? The Club Or you have the nearest gnome cast Predistigation (sp?) It flavors! It creates toys! It washes your clothes! It's AWESOME!
Seeker95 10-30-05, 10:15 PM	Sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid. You're welcome.Okay, chemistry boy. Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food? Playing with a child's chemistry set is easy. Playing checmistry with magic probably requires a bit more accuracy than the mage is capable of accomplishing. After all, the amount of damage for both spells is a variable.
Edymnion 10-30-05, 10:22 PM	On topic, as was said by others, in d&d, 'acid' is not 'substance with very low ph', it is 'substance, usually liquid, that causes other substances to dissolve, with the exception of glass and maybe other materials'.Good point. D&D acid is more of an almost True Universal Solvent. But for the OP, yes, if you want to say that acid in your game really is acid, then a very alkaline base would also count as acid damage. Just about any substance that makes things melt would count as acid.
Waterhammer 10-30-05, 10:48 PM	sodium hypochlorite tastes salty.DO NOT DRINK POISON.
Edymnion 10-30-05, 10:57 PM	And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math!
Tyler Do'Urden 10-30-05, 11:12 PM	Worse yet, I hear that Americans ingest literally tons of the stuff every year without ever knowing how dangerous it can be. I knew a guy who knew a guy whose cousin died from dihydrogen monoxide asphyxiation. Scientists have even shown that administering it to lab rats can cause cancer. Swear to multiple gods.
Surgo 10-30-05, 11:44 PM	Just to get back on topic, re: seeker95 Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food? One would think that wizards have excellent control over their spells.
Escef 10-31-05, 12:18 AM	Seeker95, I was refering to the following statement by captfrigate: I was thinking about chemisty the other day, and it hit me: Would damage from a high pH source be considered acid damage? Umm... yeah. The original poster's point, which you so cleverly missed, was since bases and acids have similar effects on substances, should chemical burns from bases be counted as acid damage in D&D for sake of simplicity? In other words, he knows that a high pH is a base.
The Club 10-31-05, 01:02 AM	Okay, chemistry boy. Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food? Playing with a child's chemistry set is easy. Playing checmistry with magic probably requires a bit more accuracy than the mage is capable of accomplishing. After all, the amount of damage for both spells is a variable. I think that any mage who knows that an acid and base react leaving water and a neutral salt can probably pick his acids and bases. The molarities should balance if the spell levels are the same. And rather than trying to collide the spells over food, it might be better to collide them over someone who's could use a good head soak and gather the precipitate up later. The Club
The Club 10-31-05, 01:04 AM	And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math! Our rivers and lakes are FULL of the stuff! And it's all because of corporate greed! The Club
Count Arioch the 28th 10-31-05, 05:07 AM	Okay, chemistry boy. Now how do you plan to ensure that your orb of acid is making HCl and not any of the other hundreds of acids, and that your orb of alkiline just happens to be making NaOH, and none of the other hundreds of bases, and that the quantities and strengths of each are balanced enough to make NaCl and H2O with all of each agent used completely, and that the mixture occurs before either hits your food? I don't see why I deserve the general rancor in this thread. At all.
Escef 10-31-05, 05:17 AM	I don't see why I deserve the general rancor in this thread. At all. Rancor?
Seeker95 10-31-05, 11:01 AM	I think that any mage who knows that an acid and base react leaving water and a neutral salt can probably pick his acids and bases. The molarities should balance if the spell levels are the same.One would think that wizards have excellent control over their spells.TThe danger in this assumption is proven out by the variable damage caused by nearly every spell ever caused by a caster. If a caster can't get a magic missile to do the same amount of damage every time, how is s/he supposed to get a specific molarity of an acid or base, much less match the molarity of another caster's spell, or even the molarity of the spell they just cast a round ago? Wizards have remarkably little control over their spells!
Seeker95 10-31-05, 11:03 AM	Rancor?Ditto. Rancor? You responded to a long post with a cutesy comment. I responded to a cutesy comment with an equally cutesy longer comment. You pulled out your chemistry knowledge, in response to my post. I applied my own chemistry knowledge to the mechanics of the game. I intended no rancor.
Planar Wanderer 10-31-05, 11:07 AM	Interestingly enough this came up in an article on the main wizards D&D site (it's a retired article but still archived), you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20050218a))I personally would rule that acid resistance is just shorthand for pH extreme resistance and leave it there, you can have you're own flavour if you like but mechanically the spell produces acid.
Surgo 11-01-05, 12:01 PM	TThe danger in this assumption is proven out by the variable damage caused by nearly every spell ever caused by a caster. If a caster can't get a magic missile to do the same amount of damage every time, how is s/he supposed to get a specific molarity of an acid or base, much less match the molarity of another caster's spell, or even the molarity of the spell they just cast a round ago? Another possibility is that, with each different damage result, the hit area was different and that's why the resulting damage was different.
green_yawgmoth 11-01-05, 12:39 PM	Then I would offer that someone is going to die, or at least be forced to make a Fortitude save against poison. Not all salts are safe, and unless the acid and base happen to make NaCl and H2O, you're not likely to have a very good seasoning.I'd say that Base Spray would be sodium hydroxide, just because that's a really amusing situation. :D Edit: beaten. >_< http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
green_yawgmoth 11-01-05, 12:42 PM	And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math! Actually, the correct terminology would be "hydrogen monoxide". (: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
FeceMan 11-01-05, 12:51 PM	And whatever you do, watch out for the dihydrogen monoxide! Almost every death around the country has this substance somewhere near the body, you do the math! You make me smile :). Props for owning chem wiz, though, hehe.
Surgo 11-01-05, 01:02 PM	Actually, the correct terminology would be "hydrogen monoxide". (: Um, no it wouldn't. For a covalently bonded compound, you only leave off the prefix of the first atom if there is only one of it. In this case, there are two hydrogens, so dihydrogen.
green_yawgmoth 11-01-05, 01:29 PM	Um, no it wouldn't. For a covalently bonded compound, you only leave off the prefix of the first atom if there is only one of it. In this case, there are two hydrogens, so dihydrogen.scroll to "exceptions" (http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/binary_covalent_nomenclature.htm). The prefixes are commonly left off, but can be applied. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Thwyvylyn 11-03-05, 02:50 AM	sodium hypochlorite tastes salty.DO NOT DRINK POISON. Why in the world would you taste Clorox bleach? :confused:
allenchan 11-03-05, 02:59 AM	Why in the world would you taste Clorox bleach? :confused: Suicidal, comes to mind.
Tyler Do'Urden 11-03-05, 04:42 AM	The molarities should balance if the spell levels are the same. I just wanted to point out that this is the single nerdiest thing I have ever seen in... at least a week. Bravo, good sir.
OmiKapSi 11-03-05, 03:33 PM	Pshhh, molarity nothing, check out this dissertation on statistics from the miniatures boards: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660225&postcount=36 This guy is my hero by the way.
Escef 11-03-05, 06:50 PM	I'd just like to thank this thread for reminding me which ends of the pH scale acids and bases are on. It'd been over 10 years. It actually came in handy today, I had to take the ASVAB for my Army enlistment today. So, I owe part of my perfect ASVAB score to the WotC message boards. Hehehe. :D
OmiKapSi 11-03-05, 08:57 PM	Be careful about how obvious you are about your gaming habits, apparently us gamers are poor security risks. Just run a google search for 'dungeons' 'dragons' 'security' 'clearance', and you'll pull up a number of articles on the subject. I'm not sure if the US army has similar policies in place as the Israeli forces though.
Escef 11-03-05, 09:09 PM	Yeah, I heard about that. Funny thing is my MOS requires me to have Top Secret clearence. I'm not too worried, there are a lot of gamers in the U.S. military. Heck, any kind of war simulation is effectively being a gamer. In fact, a game company helped design a table top strategy simulator for the Navy Seals.