Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Surferfreak 02-04-08, 07:27 AM	I've seen various builds emulating characters from books, comics, movies, etc etc etc, anyone know where to find one or seen one of the WWE Undertaker?
stealth_monkey 02-04-08, 08:26 AM	Well, this should be interesting to say the least. Old school undertaker or biker undertaker?
Surferfreak 02-04-08, 08:36 AM	Well, since I'm not playing a D20 Moderns game, and wanting 3.5 versions. I'd have to say Non-Biker Old-School, though which Fluff doesn't matter to heavily. Just a decent build based on the style of fighting.
Seeker95 02-04-08, 08:44 AM	Any such build should probably be on the Mature Boards, because it will of necessity include a drug dependancy: steroids. (Actually, such a build request should be on the Char Dev board.)
Keevo_Darkwood 02-04-08, 09:19 AM	Any such build should probably be on the Mature Boards, because it will of necessity include a drug dependancy: steroids. (Actually, such a build request should be on the Char Dev board.) As someone who'd once trained to become a professional wrestler years ago, before the necessity of back surgery forced him away from that path, I can say that 'roid users are less prevalent in the pseudo-sport of wrestling than many fans might think. Hulk Hogan was. Scott Steiner is. 'Taker....I don't think so. He never needed huge muscles to be intimidating, no matter what in-ring persona he had. But I digress. To the OP, before I offer a possible build, I'll need to follow up stealth monkey's question with another question. What color are your guy's gloves: purple, or gray? Believe me; that answer will make a difference.
Sakaki22 02-04-08, 11:03 AM	With a poster of the Deadman closely guarding my D&D bookshelf, and his pendant necklace used as a proxy Holy Symbol the last time I played a cleric (long story), I've given this more than a little thought. The Undertaker has a few important points to note: He has shown supernatural powers including, but probably not limited to: Calling fire (targeted, and Wall of Fire), calling Lightning (Call Lightning?), arena-wide Darkness, teleportation/Dimension Door/Shadow Walking, Earthquakes, and Illusions, Visual and Audio. Along with these he has the ability to implant his image into the minds of others (may also be Illusions), and some semblance of mind control. Very highly notable is his inability to stay dead. Now, after his Casket Match loss in the early 90s, he claimed he "can not stay dead as long as the creatures of the night believed", or something to that effect. Is this ability tied to a select group, or is it like the way a God has powers as long as he has worshippers? Another theory toward his resurrections is a phylactery: the Urn. As long as it has been a focal point in a story, he has been more powerful. Also, he has feared (to an extent) the person who held the Urn, essentially letting them control him (up until recently, finally claiming the Urn for himself). On a more recent note, it occasionally seems that he isn't necessarily at the arena at all times, with an army of druids (not as per the class, more like cultists) who come to ringside and summon him. With the exception of the Lord of Darkness gimmick, and the Biker gimmick we seem to be ignoring for this thread, his alignment is IMO Lawful or True Neutral. While his powers clearly has ties to Evil, he has always been willing to act on the side of Good with them. Physically, I don't want to rush to saying Monk, but of course a unarmed strike melee fighter, unarmored, probably with Damage Reduction.
Ash2Dust 02-04-08, 11:30 AM	I don't know from wrestling, but from sakaki's descriptions, it sounds like he's an epic level arcane casting lich with some pretty good unarmed combat, probably with an emphasis on grappling.
Edymnion 02-04-08, 01:04 PM	It depends, do you want the Undertaker as the character he plays, or the Undertaker as the actual wrestler. One is going to be a Monk/Warlock, the other is going to be a Bard. Yeah, quite the difference.
Prime32 02-04-08, 01:35 PM	Remember, real-life Olympic athletes are 5th-level, so the actual guy will be lower than that. You don't need to be an epic lich to do the stuff described, either. In fact, you don't even have to be a lich, if a god uses you as a herald or something. Sounds more like a warlock than a traditional spellcaster to me, too.
Surferfreak 02-05-08, 10:39 PM	I would have to Say Grey from pictures I'm Seeing online now, I'm kind of leaning towards the Current taker, Now back to the hat, the trench, all in black. I was trying to more stick with the Grappling/Unarmed aspect, the flavor itself I can cover. So the whole "Call Lightning" and "wall of flaime" stuff isn't neccesary. The whole Real Olympic Wrestler5/WWE wrestler < is not really helpfull, Yes, we know, it's fake, Guess what? So's the whole concept of D&D.
Count Arioch the 28th 02-05-08, 11:10 PM	Fantasy novels and movies are fake too, but no one tries to hand-wave it away as such. We can discuss the character that Mark Callaway plays without saying "it's fake" every two second. So let's brainstorm here. I like Edymnion's monk/warlock idea, so let's go with that. He should be fairly high level, as he's perhaps one of the more experienced wrestlers that are still wrestling. Let's go with 14-16 (I'd put Ric Flair around level 17 or 18, but taking penalties from being in the old age group. Vince McMahon and Sean Michaels are probably at about 'Taker's level too.) And don't give me that crap about olympic athletes being only 5th level, we're not talking about olympic athletes, we're talking about characters on a TV show. It's OK to give them high stats if we feel like it. Enlightened Fist might be a good idea as a PrC, because throughout history, 'Taker has shown great resilience in the ring, standing up after taking heavy amounts of damage. Arcane Rejuvenation would be a key ability in his arsenal. Since warlock invocations are infinite and have a spell level attached to them, he could essentially heal any time he wasn't using an action otherwise (For example, if a big move knocks him prone and his opponent is showboating, he could be healing that time he's lying down.) As for BaB, this class combo will suck for it. I feel that 'Taker should have at least a couple levels in fighter, even if it's only two to shore up HP and BaB and get a couple of feats. He might suck as far as a warlock goes, but his invocations should all be boosts, and not offensive things anyhow, they should help out his fighting. That is my thoughts on the subject.
NecroticBanana 02-06-08, 06:36 AM	simply go cleric/ death delver. with alot of ranks in intimidate and bluff. the rest is character flavor. hell its even got the whole comming back from the dead thing at higher levels. the death delver seems to fit the persona, and even gets like 9 lives. I would use the "Undertaker" persona as far as the whole morbid spooky and mysterious thing goes...but i'd give him a sword or a scyth...not a piledriver and flying clothesline. it is D&D after all , unless your DM happens to put a wrestling ring into every dungeon you guys go into y'know what i mean? i acctually based a character of the undertaker once..i always thought he looked cool in that sleeveless leather trench with the thick straps across it (without the count chocula collar)...so i made a 6'5" cleric wearing studded leather (similar to his jacket) and weilding a bastard sword. was also covered in tattoos, in fact had his holy symbol (cyric) right on his arm..had to roll a spot check to notice it. everyone thought i was a fighter till i started slinging spells. lol if i had the option to go back and redo this character, i'd use death delver. (Heroes of Horror BTW)
SilverFoxKnows 02-06-08, 07:05 PM	Remember, real-life Olympic athletes are 5th-level, so the actual guy will be lower than that. How do you figure? I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of folks on this board who are 5th level. Maybe NPC classes, but still. Let's say a guy works construction for 3-5 years (Commoner 1), goes to trade school and wrenches on cars for anohter 3-5 years (Commoner 2, now) eventually gets tired of busting his hump and goes back to school. Then spends the next ten years working in IT or telecommunications (Expert 2-3). Not that outlandish. But back to the OP's question. Maybe Monk, he's pretty fast for a big guy with good balance to boot.
BrianMc223 02-06-08, 09:30 PM	SilverFoxNews: A CCIE test would be a DC 30 Knowledge (Networking) check. Int 18 +4 Skill Focus +3 Synergy (Knowledge: Computers) +2 Skill Ranks +8 That puts passing the test at (slightly less than) 50/50. Which is about right. Thats a level five IT guy, not your former construction worker. A CCIE is a big deal. (Less than 16,000 world wide.)
Count Arioch the 28th 02-06-08, 10:47 PM	Sure, that's if we were talking about a regular guy. We are not talking about regular guys. We are talking about characters on a TV show who aren't presented as regular guys, they are presented as being larger than life. We're not talking about Mark Callaway. We're talking about The Undertaker.
Surferfreak 02-07-08, 01:23 AM	So... I've made something... I like it. Goliath Monk 1 Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Earths Embrace 2 Combat Reflexes 3 Superior Unarmed Strike Level 6 Monk, with Monks Belt, Bracers +1, Amulet Nat Armor +1, Ring Protection +1, Level 6 Bonus Feat I took trip. Character carries 10 ft chain, I figured the Goliath would fit the size thing, plus strength, and the high HP, not the most nimble WWE Preformer, so - on dex fits. I chose the "Lamenter" Clan job. Rolling stats, unusually enough I rolled decently. 17 +4 Racial =21 17 -2 Racial =15 16 +2 Racial =18 16 17 12 +1 Dex at 4th 21 str 16 dex 18 con 16 int 17 wis 12 cha Let me know what you all think.
SilverFoxKnows 02-07-08, 11:53 AM	SilverFoxNews: A CCIE test would be a DC 30 Knowledge (Networking) check. Int 18 +4 Skill Focus +3 Synergy (Knowledge: Computers) +2 Skill Ranks +8 That puts passing the test at (slightly less than) 50/50. Which is about right. Thats a level five IT guy, not your former construction worker. A CCIE is a big deal. (Less than 16,000 world wide.) Fair enough. That's not really my field. I was just making a point that even non-Olympic level folks have a few class levels.
Prime32 02-07-08, 02:08 PM	The levels justification is here: http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html Einstein was a fifth-level expert receiving circumstance bonuses from his resources, and an aid another from his wife. So what have we learned so far? Almost everyone you have ever met is a 1st level character. The few exceptional people you’ve met are probably 2nd or 3rd level – they’re canny and experienced and can accomplish things that others find difficult or impossible. If you know someone who’s 4th level, then you’re privileged to know one of the most talented people around: They’re a professional sports player. Or a brain surgeon. Or a rocket scientist. If you know someone who’s 5th level, then you have the honor of knowing someone that will probably be written about in history books. Walter Payton. Michael Jordan. Albert Einstein. Isaac Newton. Miyamoto Musashi. William Shakespeare. So when your D&D character hits 6th level, it means they’re literally superhuman: They are capable of achieving things that no human being has ever been capable of achieving. They have transcended the mortal plane and become a mythic hero. This requires a shift of perception for some people, but I’ve found it valuable, when crafting my own campaigns, to keep it in mind: Even though the PCs inhabit a world where there are many higher level characters, once they’ve gotten past 5th level or so, they are truly special individuals. They will be noticed. Their accomplishments will be (and should be) things which would enshrine them in the legends of our world. It’s OK for them to excel.
SilverFoxKnows 02-07-08, 04:15 PM	The levels justification is here: http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html Einstein was a third-level expert receiving circumstance bonuses from his resources, and an aid another from his wife. I read it. And it's absurd. I don't care how long this Alexander has been in game design. His writings don't demonstrate common sense or take other factors into account. I've met plenty of people who would have ability modifiers, for good and for ill. Yet according to him everybody you know has 10s & 11s all the way down. I guess he's never heard of the bell curve, it's actually rather unlikely that everybody has 10-11 in all their stats. I know a girl who runs marathons. That's not a 10 or 11 Con. I worked with a girl who didn't have a 10 Str (she was tiny) but probably had over an 11 Dex (she did gymnastics for 15-20 years). Another buddy was a big guy who spent a lot of time lifting weights. By how much he could lift he had over an 11 Str. Just look around you, at the people you know. Undoubtedly you know some who are clumsy, some who are frail, some who are smart, some who think fast on their feet, some who just rub people the wrong way and some who everyone likes. Those aren't scores of 10-11. Also, his leveling of people doesn't take into account repeatability. If somebody can do an action (shoot a bow, change a water pump, hook up a printer, set up a tent, frame a window, stitch a cut) dozens, or hundreds, of time without messing up then either his DCs are way off or these people have more than one level worth of skill points. I've met very few people in life who were aces at one thing and inept at everything else. If we, IRL, maxed ranks like Alexander would have you believe we wouldn't be able to drive a car, hook up a computer or even cook dinner with any reliability. We would only be able to jump and little else. His paper also ignores experience. We learn as get older. When you first learn to drive you learn on whatever your school, or your folks, have. Eventually you learn to drive stick, you learn to drive off road, you learn to drive bobtails & stakebeds. You learn, you gain experience, you eventually gain a level. The first time you ever hook up a computer you have to read the directions. Eventually you learn how to troubleshoot and make repairs. Haven't you ever worked with anybody who was really good at their job? Gee, I wonder how that's possible. He's only a level one commoner with scores of 10-11. Because as Humans we do have different abilities and we do grow in knowledge, skills and experience. It might even be argued that in industrialized nations expert would be almost as common as commoner. Commoners, after all, don't get knowledge as a class skill. But what do I know? Hey, you read it on a web page, it must be true.
Eldritch_Lord 02-07-08, 04:54 PM	I read it. And it's absurd. I don't care how long this Alexander has been in game design. His writings don't demonstrate common sense or take other factors into account. I've met plenty of people who would have ability modifiers, for good and for ill. Yet according to him everybody you know has 10s & 11s all the way down. I guess he's never heard of the bell curve, it's actually rather unlikely that everybody has 10-11 in all their stats. I know a girl who runs marathons. That's not a 10 or 11 Con. I worked with a girl who didn't have a 10 Str (she was tiny) but probably had over an 11 Dex (she did gymnastics for 15-20 years). Another buddy was a big guy who spent a lot of time lifting weights. By how much he could lift he had over an 11 Str. Just look around you, at the people you know. Undoubtedly you know some who are clumsy, some who are frail, some who are smart, some who think fast on their feet, some who just rub people the wrong way and some who everyone likes. Those aren't scores of 10-11. Not everyone has 10-11; the average is 10-11. That means for every champion weightlifter with 18 Str there's someone with a 3. He says the vast majority will be lucky to have a +1, but he interprets that to mean that everyone is around the average, not that the average is the mean of everyone's score. That's one place where I disagree with the assessment, but I think the rest of it is fairly accurate. Also, his leveling of people doesn't take into account repeatability. If somebody can do an action (shoot a bow, change a water pump, hook up a printer, set up a tent, frame a window, stitch a cut) dozens, or hundreds, of time without messing up then either his DCs are way off or these people have more than one level worth of skill points. I've met very few people in life who were aces at one thing and inept at everything else. If we, IRL, maxed ranks like Alexander would have you believe we wouldn't be able to drive a car, hook up a computer or even cook dinner with any reliability. We would only be able to jump and little else. Remember: 1) Not all checks require rolls; you can take 10 on lots of things and do pretty well. 2) You don't need to be trained in a given skill to be making skill checks for that skill. 3) Lots of actions fall under one skill. For example, just like Ride covers everything from riding a horse to taking care of one, Car Use could cover driving a car, knowing street signs, being familiar with the local streets, changing oil, pumping gas, and all that other stuff. Heck, Knowledge (Local) could cover upwards of 50% of the "skill checks" you need to make every day. Of the things you mentioned (shoot a bow, change a water pump, hook up a printer, set up a tent, frame a window, stitch a cut) I can shoot a bow or set up a tent on a Boy Scout camping trip, and that's the only time I'll ever do it, but I can do it pretty well--training isn't always necessary for repeatability, as ability modifiers can cover that pretty well. I can hook up a printer in my sleep, but I'm a computer guy. I can change a pump or frame a window passably, if I have a manual and some tools. I've never stitched a cut and doubt I ever will. So from this list, I'd say I have max ranks in Computer Use, take 10 on Archery and Tent Pitching, Aid Another and/or Masterwork Tools for Change Pump and Frame Window, and nothing at all for Heal. His paper also ignores experience. We learn as get older. When you first learn to drive you learn on whatever your school, or your folks, have. Eventually you learn to drive stick, you learn to drive off road, you learn to drive bobtails & stakebeds. You learn, you gain experience, you eventually gain a level. The first time you ever hook up a computer you have to read the directions. Eventually you learn how to troubleshoot and make repairs. Haven't you ever worked with anybody who was really good at their job? Gee, I wonder how that's possible. He's only a level one commoner with scores of 10-11. Because as Humans we do have different abilities and we do grow in knowledge, skills and experience. It might even be argued that in industrialized nations expert would be almost as common as commoner. Commoners, after all, don't get knowledge as a class skill. That makes perfect sense. In a developed, industrialized country, pretty much everyone will be an Expert; most people you know, I bet, have fewer than 10 things they are very good at, that vary person to person, and they dabble in lots of things. The article discusses commoners because it's talking about a medieval-era D&D-like world, but for a modern world expectations change. However, in our modern world, where almost limitless information is at our fingertips and we can do almost anything we want, we in the 1st world developed countries are above the average in terms of at least intellectual pursuits. I'd say the average American, Asian, or European today is about 3rd level (in regards to skills, at least), which allows plenty of specialization and competence in terms of the 3 caveats I mentioned above. So you do gain in experience--just not as much as you'd think. You'll notice that in most games the NPCs are lowly 2nd-3rd level folks, even if they're a few decades old. That's because they don't have the super-heroic exploits of the "heroes" to gain experience fast, they gain RPing XP and skill XP very very slowly over time. But what do I know? Hey, you read it on a web page, it must be true. While you've made some very good and valid points, don't assume that just because it's on a web page it isn't true.
Prime32 02-07-08, 05:03 PM	I would also like to add that we get more circumstance bonuses than D&D commoners do - we have access to far more reference material, for one, and often masterwork equipment. The Educated background feat makes all Knowledge skills class skills and grants a +2 bonus on two of them. I believe that would be a very common feat in the modern world, especially since the average person is far more educated than a medieval serf. Likewise, you can take Skill Focus as your second feat. Assuming ability score of 10... 4 Skill ranks Aid another: +2 Reference materials: up to +6 (see Eberron CS) Masterwork tools: +2 Educated: +2 Skill focus: +3 A 1st-level expert with an ability score of 10 can succeed at a DC 39 skill check. EDIT: I also have friends in their 40s & 50s who just plain know a lot of stuff. Not highly focused/ specialized knowledge for the most part but a broad understanding of many topics/ areas. These guys aren't Com1. Aging bonus come in, but mostly retraining. Your knowledge is specialised to different degress at different points in your life - how many people remember everything they learned in school? There's a gameshow in the UK called Are You Smarter Than a Ten-Year-Old? which points this out pretty well.
SilverFoxKnows 02-07-08, 05:27 PM	I would also like to add that we get more circumstance bonuses than D&D commoners do - we have access to far more reference material, for one, and often masterwork equipment. The Educated background feat makes all Knowledge skills class skills and grants a +2 bonus on two of them. I believe that would be a very common feat in the modern world, especially since the average person is far more educated than a medieval serf. Fair enough. I never maintained that all my buddies are high level PC classes. Only that not everyone is a level 1 Commoner. A farm kid would be a level 1 Commoner. Even if we learn slowly, or only run into a few situations a year that we really learn from, we will pick up levels eventually. By the time we're in our 20s many of us have probably either picked up a 2nd level in Commoner if we've worked labor jobs or have finished our schooling and are level 1 Experts. I think Alexander has over estimated what a 4th or 5th level Human is. By the time we're in our 30s & 40s I think most of us will have a couple of levels in Commoner & Expert. I'm in my 30s and have more experience (job, work, life) than my teen age nephew. I also have friends in their 40s & 50s who just plain know a lot of stuff. Not highly focused/ specialized knowledge for the most part but a broad understanding of many topics/ areas. These guys aren't Com1.
Eldritch_Lord 02-07-08, 09:13 PM	Fair enough. I never maintained that all my buddies are high level PC classes. Only that not everyone is a level 1 Commoner. A farm kid would be a level 1 Commoner. Even if we learn slowly, or only run into a few situations a year that we really learn from, we will pick up levels eventually. By the time we're in our 20s many of us have probably either picked up a 2nd level in Commoner if we've worked labor jobs or have finished our schooling and are level 1 Experts. I think Alexander has over estimated what a 4th or 5th level Human is. By the time we're in our 30s & 40s I think most of us will have a couple of levels in Commoner & Expert. I'm in my 30s and have more experience (job, work, life) than my teen age nephew. I also have friends in their 40s & 50s who just plain know a lot of stuff. Not highly focused/ specialized knowledge for the most part but a broad understanding of many topics/ areas. These guys aren't Com1. Like I said, the essay was aimed more at a D&Dish world than at our modern one. Modern humans probably almost all would start out as Experts, not commoners, unless they are impoverished or live in a third-world country, or both. The 10 class skills of your choice and a high amount of skill points would adequately imitate the "Specialized in 2-3 areas, competent in many" approach most modern humans take, even at lower levels.
Count Arioch the 28th 02-08-08, 02:49 AM	All I know is, I'm not an NPC class at all. I'm a Paladin. I just live in a world where smiting evil tends to have you put in jail, and that's not a good way to change the world for the better.
Eldritch_Lord 02-08-08, 09:55 AM	All I know is, I'm not an NPC class at all. I'm a Paladin. I just live in a world where smiting evil tends to have you put in jail, and that's not a good way to change the world for the better. So obviously you and law enforcement are paladins in a world where detect evil has been Rule Zeroed out. ;)
BrianMc223 02-08-08, 05:36 PM	Instead of Aura of Good cops get Aura of Annoying which make everyone withing sight of them feel anxious. And instead of Aura of Courage, cops get an aura that forces people to make a will save or give them a dirty look. I think it's in UA or something.
Eldritch_Lord 02-08-08, 07:17 PM	Instead of Aura of Good cops get Aura of Annoying which make everyone withing sight of them feel anxious. And instead of Aura of Courage, cops get an aura that forces people to make a will save or give them a dirty look. I think it's in UA or something. Aura of Despair: Beginning at 3rd level, the cop radiates a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet of him to take a -2 penalty on all saving throws as they begin to formulate excuses as to why they shouldn't get a ticket or get arrested. ;)