Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Steelwill 08-16-06, 09:01 AM	I have in the past few days seen an increasing number of posts regarding a D&D 4th Edition. It made me wonder what elements (rules, settings, styles, etc) would most people change about D&D as it stands, and why? I offer my own following recommendations: An alternative/variant to the Vancian spellcasting system included in core material. Metamagic feats being more applicable, easier to use, and easier to understand (at present, none of my players ever take metamagic feats because of the previously listed reasons). More simplified grappling rules. The grappling is overcomplicated, being, I believe, the only combat maneuver requiring 2.5 pages to explain. Restore Two Weapon Fighting as a viable choice. 3.x did a good job of keeping 2-handed weapon fighting and archery viable, however I don't think the same could be said of two weapon fighting and weapon and shield styles. Keeping all forms roughly equal in power would be appealing, so that the choice is stylistic only. More detailed/streamlined rules on combat using differing movement forms. Where is ship to ship combat in core? Mounted combat could be detailed less vaguely. Flying combat could be more streamlined. As it stands, any of the affore mentioned alternative movement forms in combat slow down the game unnecessarily. Even more clear language in the rules as written, so that minutia like the "when dropped..." located in the Cleave feat for example are less fuel for rules lawyers. Possibly sidebars including developer intent/spirit of the rule as written. Possibly a variant for AC/Armor where armor offers damage reduction instead. At present there is a logic flaw in the concept that a person wearing full plate becomes harder to hit. Armor usually makes it more difficult to move, thereby making it (especially where heavy armor like full plate is concerned) easier to hit, but much harder to damage. This could be considered nit-picky, but I think at least worthy of a written variant rule. Further class balancing, not versus each other, but within themselves. At present it is my firm belief that classes that don't ascribe strictly to the Vancian spell memorization system (sorcerer/warlock to name two) are overpunished elsewhere in their class features for that privilege. More streamlined magic item creation/item creation. At present it is almost never more beneficial for classes, especially playing D&D using the standard rules for wealth/xp, to ever manufacture their own equipment, given the time and cost ratios. Magic Item creation also could be more streamlined, if possible, prefferably to take less time. Either set of rules could also be less cumbersome. If psionics is truly intended by WotC to actually be part of core D&D, and there is demand enough for these classes, inclusion of them in the core rules would go along way towards making them both easier to implement, as well as generally improve psionic's credibility in D&D. Lastly, more streamlined methods for customizing Monster's in the Monster Manual if possible. As adding class levels/hit die to an "out of the box" Monster can be the most time consuming part of an encounter for the DM. That is pretty much all I can currently think of, if I come up with more I will add it. I am sure there are other posts like this, but I wanted to start another one so I could actually follow it. Thanks in advance for any serious responses to this post. Steelwill
rogue_lettuce 08-16-06, 09:12 AM	I have in the past few days seen an increasing number of posts regarding a D&D 4th Edition. And they're all asking the same question as you, so why ask again?
babysamurai 08-16-06, 09:12 AM	They already have 7th edition in Japan. Of course it’s smaller, faster and cheaper.
Seeker95 08-16-06, 09:27 AM	And no longer made in Japan. :P
babysamurai 08-16-06, 09:52 AM	And no longer made in Japan. :P Korea?
balar 08-16-06, 02:08 PM	I have in the past few days seen an increasing number of posts regarding a D&D 4th Edition. It made me wonder what elements (rules, settings, styles, etc) would most people change about D&D as it stands, and why? I offer my own following recommendations: An alternative/variant to the Vancian spellcasting system included in core material. I couldn't agree more. I loathe the Vancian system because of its severe limitations on spellcasters, especially at low levels. It makes low level spellcasters almost not even worth playing because a magic using character's arsenal consists of, well, magic. If he runs out of magic after a few spells, he is basically just a fifth wheel, unless he is lucky enough to have a magic item (but at level 1?). By contrast, the fighter never runs out of sword swings, the thief never runs out of backstabs, etc. How many times have you played a spellcaster and been in this situation: "Okay, I want to cast Sleep at the 4 orcs threatening me and the rest of the party, so I...ooops, I ran out of spells for the day. I guess I'll just sit down now and die. Fighter up!" I realize that there must be limitations to magic, but a system that gives spellcasters more spells at lower levels would be much better.
DarthLoser 08-16-06, 02:22 PM	I agree with Armor providing DR and not a Defense bonus, but then classes should provide a Defense bonus. Also, I like the VP/WP system better. It's just more realistic. And the magic needs revision too.
MojoMonkeyMan 08-16-06, 02:35 PM	Green Ronin's True20 system does just about everything for which you're asking. No more Vanican spell casting, no more HP, streamlined skills, adjustable/customizable classes. Generally compatible with DnD material. It is a step in the right direction, but certainly not perfect.
GreyLord 08-16-06, 05:53 PM	Make skills an optional rule with alternatives on how rogues (and other classes with high skill points to make them more balanced) can retain their key abilities. Make feats an optional rule. Make Epic more inline with the rules preceding epic levels.
Zaxon D'Mir 08-16-06, 06:55 PM	I really, really want WOTC to wade through the mountain of horrid crap they have released over the last two or three years and for the love of all that is good and just - STREAMLINE IT. Why is it that 4e can't be far more simple and easier to use than 3.5? Cut some of the long, long rules explanations and keep it simple and try to pretend that the people playing the game will at least have a small amount of common sense. Oh yeah combine skills. I mean c'mon: move silently+ hide = stealth. And there are plenty of others too.
a_psh 08-16-06, 07:04 PM	They already have 7th edition in Japan.Ah, but you have to remember that Japan's 6th edition was released as 3rd Edition over here in the states. :D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy)
Altar_Boy 08-16-06, 07:05 PM	I agree with Armor providing DR and not a Defense bonus. FINALLY. An actual grievance of the system. I'm sick of people complaining that D20 isn't doing magic right, when magic doesn't even have a RL equivalency to properly judge it. :rant: It's all perspective, people! Add: Distance for Ranged Weapons, size of equine creatures, stat asjustments for Halflings and small characters that accuratly reflect RL capability.
Joseph_Silver 08-16-06, 07:12 PM	I would give sorcerers a buff. Perhaps WOTC can combine the sorcerer and battle sorcerer into one? 4E Sorcerer Base Attack Bonus: 3/4 HD (as battle sorcerer) Spells Known: (as sorcerer) Spells per Day: (as sorcerer) Hit Dice: d8 (as battle sorcerer)
a_psh 08-16-06, 07:38 PM	I'm sick of people complaining that D20 isn't doing magic right, when magic doesn't even have a RL equivalency to properly judge it. :rant: It's all perspective, people!Okay, but D&D magic is predictable, reliable, and downright clinical. This being a bad thing is an opinion, but it's a widely-held one. There certainly are issues associated with the current system, mainly in the form of casters being able to "nova" to steamroll an encounter (because spells are a per-day resource, not a per-encounter resource).
Greg K 08-16-06, 08:58 PM	For starters: 1. Fewer Absolutes (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/misc.html) as per Sean Reynolds 2. Occupations as per d20 Modern 3. Action points as per d20 Modern 4. Class based defense bonus that works with armor 5. Armor as DR 6. Medium Save bonus progression as per d20 Modern 7. More player choice in class abilities as per d20Modern 8. Hit Points replaced with Damage Save (and not that lousy implementation offered in Unearthed Arcana) 9. Replace the Vancian Magic system with either: a) a skill and feat system b) the XPH power point system with fluff altered to for magic instead of psionics 10. Less importance on magic items 11. UA wizards specialist abilities become core for wizard specialists 12. The following UA class variants for each class offered either in the PHB section on customizing classes or in the DMG: Barbarian: Barbarian Hunter Cleric: Cloistered Cleric, Champion of Good Rogue: Wilderness Rogue, Martial (aka feat) Rogue Sorceror: battle sorceror 13. Rewrite the bard 14. Druid: Shapechange from PHB2 becomes standard 15. Paladins and Rangers: either a) grant them spells at first level (0-level spells at first level, first level spells at 2nd level, a new spell level at 6th, 10th, 14th 18th) and rebalance the other features as necessary. b) make them Prcs 16. Add the noble, spirit shaman, and swashbuckler to the core classes 17. 18. Bring back the missing armor and weapons from previous editions 19. Move all Greyhawk stuff in the pHB to an Appendix 20. Remove Adept and Warrior from the NPC class list. 21. Break down the expert NPC class into the Craftsman, Entertainer, Professional, Scholar
Fion81 08-16-06, 09:58 PM	I would anticipate up coming released better. Right from the start i would design epic level rules, before publishing anything. I would change these (epic) rules to be more streamlined than they are in 3.5. and i would publish very strong monsters in the first monster manuel to take account of these epic powers i woudlnt publish anything like fiend lords or dieties till the epic level handbook had come out. i would weaken the strengh of late level heros, particuarly weakening magic.(only midly) I would make a few more core classes. I would not realease a 4.5. I would make the campaigns settings different. I would recreate forgotten realms to be simply different, less gods for example. all me personally. i would make sorcerors quite different than wizards. Using points rather than spells slots, and able to buff up spells or cast above level at major penalties.
Slightly_Unscrewed 08-17-06, 03:11 PM	Actually, there is an armor as DR variant in Unearthed Arcana.
MarkLentini 08-17-06, 03:41 PM	I would make several tweeks: Improve Bards and 1/2 Elves. Make Knowledge Skills usable untrained. Fix grappling and trip. NO ARCANE MAGIC IN ARMOR! More flexable Paladins (not just knight in armor).
a_psh 08-17-06, 11:23 PM	NO ARCANE MAGIC IN ARMOR!WHY? What's your justification for this?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-18-06, 01:35 AM	Have a tiny device hidden in the books that sends a massive electrical shock to anyone who makes the inevitable 5e threads on this board.
B Rob 08-18-06, 01:56 AM	I like 3.5 a lot. I will say, however, that there is a lot of useless rule garbage in 3.5 that needs to go away. Also, miniature rules coupled with cheap miniatures, set pieces, and boards/tiles would widen DnD's appeal.
rogue_lettuce 08-18-06, 02:17 AM	4th Ed should have a section in the back of the PHB for notes, and then all the other books should have a line at the end that says something along the lines of "If you bought The Dungeon Master's Guide, put this in your PHB notes section." :P EDIT: Too vague? Or is the humour there? I'm not sure...
Tenzhi 08-18-06, 02:35 AM	I would simplify the core system. Make grid-n-miniature-oriented combat nonsense an optional variant to be plugged into a simpler core combat system. Perhaps even simplify skills and make the uber-micromanaged version an optional variant. I would simplify bonuses to Ability/Natural/Supernatural. It would be something quick and easy for those that wanted quick and easy, with the option of added complexity for those that like to deal with it.
Molitor 08-18-06, 02:46 AM	What I think should be changed......... 1st...It should be 'school focus' not 'spell focus'. Evocation is a school, fireball is a spell. Get it? 2nd.... Dwarves should have a negative to ride skill. How can they have a low center of gravity and not incur penalties? 3rd...Some spells need to belong to more than one school. They quit doing it that way and I really think it should make a resurgence. 4th...Put a pronunciation in the back of the book. It baffles me how many people can't pronounce 'Drow'. 5th ...Bring back Leprechauns. Where are they? Why are they absent? 6th...The magic item should be called a 'Ring of Deflection' not a 'Ring of Protection'. If grants a deflection bonus, right? 7th ...Change the lame color coding of Dragons. Do all red dragons have to breath fire? Not in my campaign. 8th ..Change the term 'Sneak attack' to something else, like 'Precise attack' or some such. The term 'sneak attack' implies one must be sneaking. 9th...The term 'Native Outsider' is an oxymoron. You cannot be a native AND an outsider. That's all I can come up with for now but I'm sure their will be more.
AcidAngel 08-18-06, 05:47 AM	A more integrated, psionics, epic and divine rules in the core rules. They are published in the SRD, for heaven sake. Better implementation of all the combat rules and actions, not as they are now, spread out of across the complete series. The same with all the skill descriptions. An increase of levels from 20 to 40 A better and more logical flow of information in the DMG. All races to be treated as templates in a modular fashion. By this I mean you start with a base bipedal humanoid or quadruped monstrous form and add templates to it to get a race, with and without level adjustments. e.g. (base humanoid + dwarf template = dwarf) or (base humanoid + dwarf + half dragon + celestial = celestial half dragon dwarf (with appropriate level adjustments applied)) Monsters to work along the same lines. Clarify increasing and decreasing of monster sizes, it took me quite a while to make fine size elementals the other night, as apposed to how quick it is to make a colossal house cat, as an example. Just my two coppers.
babysamurai 08-18-06, 06:59 AM	Skills Not the way they are used, but the way they are chosen. Still a little clunky to me.
Seeker95 08-18-06, 09:14 AM	4 classes: Warrior, Rogue, Priest, Mage All the rest of the classes would be built by your selection of Feats, Skills and Flavors.
DeathsAudit 08-18-06, 09:20 AM	Alignment needs work or dumped. No class should need alignment to work.
Pyke_Moonshadow 08-18-06, 09:57 AM	Well, if I had a hand in designing a 4th edition I would change virtually nothing. Right now the only real house rule I have is that the share spells ability doesn't konk out after the familiar moves more than 5' from you. other than that I have never needed a house rule. I am working with a variant of alignment but that is out of curiosity not out of a feeling of dissatisfaction for the existing system. I love 3.5!
Garlogic 08-18-06, 10:59 AM	2 things. which I really haven't thought about too much but might be nice. Combat rules with optional rules. Maybe basic rules then as people play more they more and more optional rules. That way people can add what they want when they want to. Slower level advancement, but not in the way you think. Give half(approximately) of the the special abilities, BAB, saves each level. So as 10 the level wizard in 4th ed you would actually be a 5th level wizard in 3.5. Players like to level up and now it happens pretty easily but after 20-25 adventures they are already epic. Lets make epic at 40th level. Heck, maybe even have a PHB for levels 1-20, then 21-40, then epic, kinda like the old box sets. That way Wizards can get some extra $$$ to keep the profits going so that they don't have to make a 5th ed for a longer period of time.
Frozen Yakman 08-18-06, 11:28 AM	* Outsiders should have the monster type that makes sense for their creature with an (Extraplanar) subtype. Tieflings should be humanoids, Bezekiras (Hellcats) should be magical beasts, Titans should be Giants, Formians should be Aberations or Monstrous Humanoids. Only the beings that exemplify their alignments (Baatezu, Tanar'ri, Yugoloths, Modrons, Rilmani, Slaadi, Guardinals, Archons, Eladrins, and Aasimon) should have a special type associated with them. * Ditch the Great Wheel cosmology, go back to the Great Ring cosmology when the Ethereal plane actually had a purpose. Bring back para- and quasi- elemental planes. * Don't care if the Vancian magic system stays or goes but open up magic to multiclassing. Base it off of stats common to all classes (like a Spellpower stat akin to BaB (or maybe an Arcane and Divine version of both)). The caster's exclusive access to their spell ability is the primary reason we "need" classes like the Mystic Theurge and the Eldritch Knight. If you remove the exclusive access and just make casters better at magic than everybody else you clean up a lot of the problems with the system. * Races unlock abilities as you gain levels - Keep the choice of Elf as statistically relevant at 20th level as it is at 1st.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-18-06, 10:56 PM	* Ditch the Great Wheel cosmology, go back to the Great Ring cosmology when the Ethereal plane actually had a purpose. Bring back para- and quasi- elemental planes. The Great Wheel cosmology was the one with the paraelemental planes and the quasielemental planes, as well as an Ethereal Plane that actually had a use. In fact, I'm almost certain that the Great Wheel and the Great Ring are two names for the same exact thing. Like how the Beastlands is also called the Happy Hunting Grounds.
Mitchell 08-19-06, 01:59 AM	...Why is it that 4e can't be far more simple and easier to use than 3.5? Cut some of the long, long rules explanations and keep it simple and try to pretend that the people playing the game will at least have a small amount of common sense... Have you looked at some of the questions on these boards? I mean, I try to be helpful, but when someone asks what a d2 or d3 is, I sometimes just have to shake my head in disbelief. Anyway, what would I like? 1) No monk. I know it was an old core class from way back, but the basic game is largely eurocentric. The monk doesn't fit. They can do an OA book and introduce the monk, ninja, etc, there. 2) Which brings me to my second point. Less reprinted material for cost. I'm getting into splatbooks here, but if the samurai was in OA, and I bought OA, why do I have to pay for it in CW? The spell compendium is one thing. It contains a huge amount of material from a wide variety of sources, where the samurai was 1/3 of the "new" classes in CW (as all the OA classes were in their respective CX). Now there were plenty of other good things in the various Complete books, but that's what made it worse. Bottom line is, if I want ninja, samurai, wu-jen, and monks, I want, and will get, OA. I don't want them mixed in amongst stuff I am more likely to use on a regular basis. 3) More hybrids in core. Not many, but there is no arcane/melee hybrid. Arcane/divine has two (paladin and ranger),there is even a rogue/arcane hybrid (bard), and by that line of thinking, a rogue/divine hybrid (ranger). I would like to see an arcane/melee hybrid (like the hexblade, for example). 4) Psionics as core-optional. This would mean that psionics would be in from the beginning, and they could include psionic options for the appropriate monsters in the MMs. I know some people hate the idea, but I'm not even talking about psionics in the PHB, just that the supplements include psionic options when appropriate. It would not take much space. 5) Something that they have started, but could have started earlier. The X in <campaign setting> block. Once you start to stray from core, this is kind of nice. That's all I can think of right now, along with some stuff I noticed other people have mentioned.
Demon Lightfoot 08-19-06, 03:00 AM	:thinks: I have 0 interest in a 4e, but... 1) Spell point system (a la psionics) as an option for Wizards. :mage: 2) Make Gestalt a core option. :drool: 3) Un-nerf spells; 3.5 didn't really do anyone any favors there. :mage: 4) Make Sorcerer more different from Wizard, perhaps blending Sorcerer and Warlock -- giving him a set number of innate powers (perhaps bloodline-related) and spells. :mage: 5) A viable hardcore ass-kicking full-BAB Martial Artist (Boxer, Wrestler, Kickboxer, Sumo, Master of Kung Fu, etc) as a Core class 6) MORE ELVES, :devil: if only to see some players' heads :headexplo .
AnonymousInternets 08-19-06, 03:28 AM	If by 4.0 you mean "balancing and feature alterations," I might be up for that, but I don't want all the rules and mechanics to be rewritten. I'm pretty pleased with how they are now.
Leatherwood 08-19-06, 08:41 AM	What would I like to see in 4th ed? Compatability with 3.5.
Zaxon D'Mir 08-19-06, 09:27 AM	Have you looked at some of the questions on these boards? I mean, I try to be helpful, but when someone asks what a d2 or d3 is, I sometimes just have to shake my head in disbelief. Then these sorry individuals are beyond help and a three page explanation of d20 combat is well above their level of comprehension.
GreyLord 08-19-06, 10:44 AM	Then these sorry individuals are beyond help and a three page explanation of d20 combat is well above their level of comprehension. and people wonder why D&D players are seen as nerds...
DragonRg6 08-19-06, 11:06 AM	9th...The term 'Native Outsider' is an oxymoron. You cannot be a native AND an outsider. Arguably, you can be. You could be Native to the Outside, just as I am Native to my home country. But at the core of it, I agree with you. It's a stupid and confusing rules designation.
faeriehunter 08-19-06, 12:43 PM	I think that the save system needs to be reworked. At the higher levels there are a lot of save or die spells. When such a spell is cast either an opponent dies or the spell is wasted. A better system would be that the effect scales depending on by how much the DC is missed. That would also prevent a natural one from being an automatic death. What kind of saving throw one makes also matters too much in my opinion. For example, a high level rogue is almost guaranteed to make a reflex save while more often than not failing a fortitude save. I think the best way to deal with this would be to reduce the difference between the base save modifiers of good saves and bad saves.
Seeker95 08-20-06, 09:27 AM	I am a very big proponent of 3rd edition. However, I agree with faeriehunter in the saving throw department. I would reign in saving throws a little. At low levels, they are almost impossible, and at high levels they are laughable. I believe saving throws should remain fairly constant throughout the game. I would make them truly opposed rolls based on the level of the caster, not just the level of the spell. A 1st level spell, cast by a 20th level caster on a 20th level target should be as tough to make as a 1st level spell, cast by a 1st level caster on a 1st level target -- with stat modifiers affecting the roll.
CapnZapp 08-20-06, 10:37 AM	Green Ronin's True20 system does just about everything for which you're asking. No more Vanican spell casting, no more HP, streamlined skills, adjustable/customizable classes. Generally compatible with DnD material. It is a step in the right direction, but certainly not perfect. Sadly, True20 lost its fantasy focus. Any ruleset may be fantastic, but if there is even a whiff of "generic" I'm not interested. A True20 4th edition D&D but with real classes (and not "strong", "quick" etc) and the magic system of Elements of Magic by EN Publishing, and you have something. Traditional, yet modern! :) A shame True20 is destined to be a paranthesis in the history of roleplaying (unless Green Ronin buys WotC!)
VFults 08-20-06, 11:33 AM	Sadly, True20 lost its fantasy focus. A shame True20 is destined to be a paranthesis in the history of roleplaying (unless Green Ronin buys WotC!) I'm about to start a Thieves' World fantasy campaign using True20 and I don't understand how it "lost its fantasy focus." I have the core book and bestiary and find it's all I need to run a fantasy campaign. T20 is designed to handle various genres; Am I correct that you see this as a liability instead of a feature of the system? Regards, V
Zaxon D'Mir 08-20-06, 02:04 PM	and people wonder why D&D players are seen as nerds... And making the game even more complex only alienates people who read the first page explaining d20 combat and then put the book down because it's too confusing. Simplicity sells. A game for the people, not a bunch of nerds obsessed with rules and how they should be interpreted as a real life event. This used to be a fantasy game not a collection of plausible real life scientific theories on the pseudo-physics of a world run by magic and monsters. It's a game not a text book and a lab for three credits this semester.
Gorgosaure 08-20-06, 03:17 PM	Here my 2 cents, in euro ;) 1 - A good level of compatibility with 3.5. 2 - Propose a viable optional rules for those who wants to get rid of the alignments. 3 – Include psionics in the core rules. 4 – Slightly up the fighter and sorcerer classes (just make them more interesting to play). 5 – Up the half-elf and half-orc races (they are really poor races in terms of special abilities compared to the others). 6 – Make classes more modular, with more feats to choose and paths (or ways, or specialties, ect.) to pursue. 7 – A FULL REWRITING of the polymorph, shapechange abilities and spells (with no need to consult any monster manual). The PHB2 druid shapechange is a good introduction. 8 – Fixed hit points gained at each level. (I have very bad memories of three 1 in a row with my barbarian and a lawful neutral DM…) 9 – Add the artificer and the magewright from Eberron. 10 – Save us from a 4.5 two or three years after the 4.0. Gorgo
GreyLord 08-20-06, 03:34 PM	Here my 2 cents, in euro ;) 1 - A good level of compatibility with 3.5. 2 - Propose a viable optional rules for those who wants to get rid of the alignments. Good, euro is worth more than dollars...
Voldar_Mecorthio 08-20-06, 05:13 PM	Eliminate Vanican spellcasting. There are no profanities strong enough to convey my pure, undiluted hatred of this system. Fix spellcasting. At low levels mages are worthless, at high they're unstoppable. The sorcerer/wizard is a sidekick at 1st-3rd level and everyone else is a sidekick at 15-20th level. Compare 1st level barbarian to 1st level wizard. Barbarian gets his axe messy. Compare 20th level barbarian to 20th level wizard. Wizard leaves a crater where the barbarian used to be. limit the power of high level spells, give more spells per day to low level casters. Fix armor class. Seperate AC into hard-to-hit and hard-to-breach-my-armor. Armor should give DR, it makes no sense to include the concepts of agility and hardness in the same roll. Eliminate XP costs for spellcasting. This creates party level rifts, which should never exist under any circumstances. Eliminate individual XP. All XP should go to a party fund, and when enough XP accumulates (the PHB chart times how many PCs there are), everyone levels up. There should never, under any cicumstances, be a situation where one party member is a higher level than another. All XP costs should be converted to gp costs. Eliminate rolling for stats. Point buy should be the default way to generate stats. Rolling produces uneven characters and ineffective concepts. I could go on, but I don't want to hijack this thread. Eliminate rolling for HP per level. Average results +1. I hate any instence where a random result is perminant. No character should be stronger than another character of the of the same race, class, and level. (not counting equipment.) Erase the Deck of Many Things. Even though any good DM will never use the thing, the mere presence of that abomination in a core book insights lesser DMs to use the campaign-destroying item. Redo the epic spell system. As it stands developing even one epic spell shreads almost all of a caster's resources. I think Dicefreaks had a good variant system, but I forget where it was. Allow for PCs to choose class feature "paths", allowing for maximum customization. See the Ultimate Classes by Sczanty. (in my sig) Axe the battle grid. Detracts from the "in character" feel. Emphasize roleplaying XP. Too many new players and DMs think that the only way to get XP is to kill stuff. D&D shouldn't be a hackandslash.
mecket 08-20-06, 08:52 PM	Things that I would change: 1-Use the tick based sistem in batles, this solves a lot of problems betwen warriors and spellcasters and simulate prety well a batle whith ups and downs and lots of tatcal play(for those not familiar is basicly a sistem where every action have a speed measured in ticks and every action takes a specific time to happen, so casting a spell can have speed ´´6´´, swing a dagger speed ´´3´´, so the guy whith the dagger can stab the mage twice before the mage ends his spells. )Its fun and easier to use after a while but I really doubt D&d follows this path... :weep: 2-Use of spell points^^ 3-More sense in epic 5-Clean the skill sistem and create a better sistem to handle the ´´social´´ part of the game. 6-This is mostly related whith 1, but D&d really is balanced in the levels 4 to 12...I really whish that they make every level matter. Cheers C
DarkLiChNeaZur 08-20-06, 09:27 PM	theres very litle i dont like about the 3.5 system but there are some minor things i would change. put a new alignment system on, a way to make your alignment change upon actions and make it easy to use. add some new lower level spells, low level wizards really dont put the damage out that i would like to see them do. OH and make some new spells and classes otherwise i love D&D good luck WOTC
guitarherofreak 08-20-06, 11:30 PM	Possibly a variant for AC/Armor where armor offers damage reduction instead. At present there is a logic flaw in the concept that a person wearing full plate becomes harder to hit. Armor usually makes it more difficult to move, thereby making it (especially where heavy armor like full plate is concerned) easier to hit, but much harder to damage. I belive that the current system represents this just fine. AC is the representation of how hard a charactor is to hurt or damage. A charactor in full plate may very well be easier to hit(shown by the max dex bonus) but its harder to penetrate the armor and thus score damage. If your going to impliment DR into it then you may as well start tracking condition of armor (which albiet teidious, could be fun) because DR says that your in fact doing damage to the armor in qustion. Whereas not scoring a hit altogether means that the weapon may have just clanged off the armor.
Fion81 08-20-06, 11:50 PM	Change how hps are gained per level. I house rule in my campaign for smal variation. wiz,sors etc 1+d3=2-4 rogues 2+d4=3-6 clerics 4+d4=5-8 fighters 6+d4=7-10 bars 8+d4 the idea is to have variation. IM not saying they use the above, its awkward and combersome (albeit simple). But they should do something to keep variatian, but make it a smaller variation). To differentiate sorcs and wizards. Spell points per day for sorcs (always fits with them not memorizing spells) and the good old spells per day for wizards.
Someone 08-21-06, 01:11 AM	Eh, not like it will ever happen, but... -Leave no bonus/modifier unnamed. Is it really that hard to figure out which of the bonus types it would be? -Special abilities shouldn't have to keep refering to a core class. For example, "Evasion" should be in a special ability listing in the core books (sort of like how it is in the SRD). So whenever a PrC or new core class has evasion, they can simply say "has the Evasion ability (see the universal special rules section) as long as in light or no armor..." instead of "has Evasion as the monk abilty..." -There should be only 3 "lists" describing how a class gains spells. The 4th level max of rangers an pallys (heck, give them 0-level like all the rest). The 6th level max of bards (give this to the cleric/druid, hence 2e style). And the 9th level max of wizards. The "one class level delay for spell level" of the sorcerer is the stupidist form of balancing in the PHB. You could even have a 4th progression for all the 10-level PrCs (as compared to 20-level core class) that grant spells (most of them only go to 4th level spells, anyway.) -I second the "please, leave monks, ninjas, an all the 'the exact same as an existing class but with different names' classes for the Oriental Adventures sourcebooks" motion. -And speaking of monk, what's with the BAB +8 (let alone the 1/day per four levels) on Stunning Fist for everyone else? -Balance the armors. Full plate shouldn't be some super armor that provides better total protection (in terms of armor +max Dex) than almost everything else. That and splint mail?!? what's the point? Bring back brigandine or something, don't throw us some "anti-masterwork banded armor". There, I've bored you to tears with my ranting...
Frozen Yakman 08-21-06, 01:36 AM	The Great Wheel cosmology was the one with the paraelemental planes and the quasielemental planes, as well as an Ethereal Plane that actually had a use. In fact, I'm almost certain that the Great Wheel and the Great Ring are two names for the same exact thing. Like how the Beastlands is also called the Happy Hunting Grounds. Might want to go back and compare you're 2e and 3e cosmologies. The Great Wheel (3e) is quite different from the Great Ring (2e Planescape). Differences Include Prime Material Plane - 2e - Each world inhabited its own crystal sphere in the only Prime Material world. This formed the basis for the Spelljammer setting. 3e - Each Prime Material world inhabits its own distinct Prime Material Plane with its own distinct cosmology possibly connected to other Prime Material planes via the Plane of Shadow. Ethereal Plane - 2e - A plane connecting the Prime Material Plane to the Inner (Elemental/Energy) Planes, one had to cross the Deep Ethereal to get there though. Also contained many demi-planes the most notable being the Demiplane of Shadow. 3e - A plane that's coexistant with the Prime Material Plane, not useful for interplanar travel. Astral Plane - 2e - Connects the Prime Material Plane to the Outer Planes. 3e - Connects the Prime Material Plane to all other planes. (Demi)Plane of Shadow - 2e - A demiplane located in the Ethereal plane burgeoning on full plane status. 3e - A full transitive plane that connects different planar cosmologies Inner Planes - 2e - Included several more planes than exist in 3e called the Paraelemental and Quasielemental planes. These planes joined two distinct elemental planes together (in the Paraelemental case) or an elemental plane with an energy plane (in the Quasielemental case). 3e - The Paraelemental Planes of Magma, Smoke, Ooze, Mist, Lightning, Steam, Mineral, Radiance and the Quasielementla Planes of Dust, Vacuum, Ash, Ice simply don't exist in 3e. Outer Planes - 2e - Modrons dominate Mechanus. Also called the Great Ring (alongside a general Ring theme in Planescape). Lady of Pain has no stats at all. 3e - Formians from Arcadia dominate Mechanus. Also called the Great Wheel. Lady of Pain incorrectly given a Lawful Neutral stat. For whatever poorly thoughtout reason WotC systematically decided that there were going to destroy Planescape in 3e and focus more on subpar settings like the Forgotten Realms and (at least initially) Greyhawk.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-21-06, 08:59 AM	Might want to go back and compare you're 2e and 3e cosmologies. The Great Wheel (3e) is quite different from the Great Ring (2e Planescape). The Great Wheel was the name for the 2e cosmology. It always was. I don't know where you're getting "Great Ring" from, but it sure as hell ain't any Planescape book I've seen.
RavinRay 08-21-06, 09:37 AM	Off-the-bat... Psionics as core Deity rules benefitting from epic rules Variant deity rules for oriental deities (shaman domains) and psionic deities (psionic mantles)
Tobus Neth 08-24-06, 04:31 AM	Can you just wait until 2011 and let it be! I'm tired of buying $30.00 books! Save the trees!
Malek 08-24-06, 04:54 AM	Well one thing for certain - If I were doing 4ed I'd hire Szatany as class-maker ;)
Pyke_Moonshadow 08-25-06, 08:03 AM	Well one thing for certain - If I were doing 4ed I'd hire Szatany as class-maker ;) Having never read his classes I can't comment. But I can say that for the most part I am very happy with the classes as they are now.
babysamurai 08-25-06, 08:06 AM	I still think that Skills are a little clunky. Not the way they are used, but the way they are chosen/allocated. So I would change: Skills: All character classes start with the same number of class Skills they usually have, but they get to choose which Skills those are, and still have the same number of Skill points per level. What do you think?
rogue_lettuce 08-25-06, 08:55 AM	Well one thing for certain - If I were doing 4ed I'd hire Szatany as class-maker ;) Yes. And find shadowfoot, and make him the prestige-class maker. ;)
Moniker 08-25-06, 10:58 AM	I'd like to see "Skill Groups", sort of like what Iron Heroes presented. I want 4E to be completely modular, and introduce code non-magical equivilents to the Ranger and Paladin classes. I want to see Feats that continue to grow (i.e; level) with the character. I want the Race options to be better integrated into the core rules. The level adjustments and all the ridiculous bonuses without any residual drawbacks is insane. Who the heck wouldn't choose an Aasimar or Tiefling, instead of a regular Human? Eliminate move-based Attacks of Opportunity. Spell Schools, instead of concentration by spell. Get rid of the Sorcerer and hybridize the Wizard and Sorcerer together. Better non-magical healing rules while using the Heal skills - not something stuffed way into the back of the book. Damage Reduction added by type of armor and by weapon (meaning, Plate would be more resistant to Slash, less to Blunt and weak to Thrust).
elondir 08-25-06, 11:13 AM	Built-in, intrinsic CORE support for infinite epic, psionics, incarnum, legacy weapons, savage species, and divine Far fewer races and PrCs (do we really need 700 PrC's, most of which are filler for books)? Spell point system that grants more low level spells at low levels. Print Vancian as an optional system, still in the core Remove the dice cap on spells like fireball Make saving throws better at low levels Armor as DR No XP penalties for multiclassing Un-nerf heal, harm, fly, and haste PHB2 polymorphing and rebuilding No more class abilities! Turn them into feats instead and grant a feat at every level. 3.0 facing rules - a horse is not 10' x 10' and a megapede is a lot longer than 40 feet. A xixecal's foot is bigger than 40 feet square. Make miniatures use optional. The thing I dislike most about 3.5 is the way it pushes the use of minis. While they are useful in many cases, I chalked it up to marketing for the D&D minis product line. Make low levels less lethal (may be more realistic but I'm never really happy until around 5th level) Let attacks per round increase after going epic until you have four per round Bring back proficiencies instead of skill points. Or better yet, max out skill points at 4 ranks and grant one quarter as many skill points. Untrained Knowledge checks (stuff you picked up on the street instead of studied from a book) A classless option where players select a BAB, two good saves, hit dice, spell progression rate (none, every 4, 3, or 2 levels), spell type (arcane, divine, psionic, incarnum, whatever), and spontaneous vs prepared. XP based on EL not CR. Better yet make an XP system that doesn't require a computer program to calculate mixed CRs. NO 4.5 two years later. Or five years later. Ten I might be okay with. 1st edition comeliness as a core attribute to finally settle the whole high charisma=good looking" debate Artificer, archivist, magewright, swashbuckler, erudite, warlock in there as core Either make eldritch knight a 20 level base class, or give duskblade or warmage the full wizard list and 9th level spells and +3/4 BAB Let eldritch knights cast in full armor. The whole point is to have 9th level wizard spells and four attacks at 20th level, so why do they have to go rely on things like +5 twilight mithril chain shirts for fighter AC? Fewer books with tiny print, three columns per page (a la AD&D 2e DMG), fewer, smaller illustrations with a few high quality full page ones, and no filly margins taking up half the page (cost of printing? How much ink is spent on the edges of the pages?), that are 320 pages MINIMUM, cost $20 to $25, and aren't full of filler. The SRD is over 800 pages printed out, and that's without the fluff. In the suggested format, they could squeeze other stuff in there like weapons of legacy and incarnum Stronghold Builder's Guide as an appendix or something and keep the landlord feat Magic item creation does not cost XP, and make price based on total bonus instead of each individual bonus type, so that +1 sacred/+1 enhancement/+1 morale is the same price as a +3 enhancement Now if I recall a lot of those rules are already in Unearthed Arcana. :confused: Hmm, it might be worth picking up.
DwarfPcfan 08-25-06, 11:29 AM	To create the perfect DnD. Wizard needs to do follow the following steps. 1- Have a genuine truce ( not the false one they have today) with it's only real competitor White Wolf and listen to what they have to say, there are many things they are more skilled at then wizards ( the opposite is true also). to survive as the only real competition they have to know their stuff. Ally with them to create the perfect system 2- reread as many times as they have to everything they ever published to eliminate every conflicting detail they ever wrote ( such as OA samurai versus CW samurai, swashbuckler class versus Duelist prestige class). 3- Once the cleaning up is made. Understand that they should focus on role-playing rather then stats. 4- Thus rewritting race to have both flavor and equal power ( I'm sorry but years and years of playing have proved to me that a well played half-elf barbarian is most of the time better in everyway the a half-orc barbarian, WTF!). Most important, flavor must be the most important point. Races would be free picks under the point buy system, where upon any player could pick a La 0 race at creation without6 spending points 5- Toss away the class systementirely in favor for a point based system where what used to be classes are instead ready made kits where all the points are spent in a model of a possible archetype of the kit thus allowing full customization. This would allow much more flexible character creation creation, each character could thus be unique. Yet they have to keep the Dnd model where atteigning a certain skill or feat requires a certain level of mastery in previous skills that are needed to learn this ability. Thus the equivalent of prestige classes would equate to high level mastery in the needed preriquisites ( and the need to spend devellopment points) 6- Toss away the magic system they currently have in favor of a system that gives magic a truly mystic feel, not simply just spells per day. I'm not sure what it could be but I see something in the lines of arcana mastery/knowledge for arcane casters, faith/religious wisdom for divine, Self-discovery/mental prowess for psionics, life-force/soul connection for meldshapers, true lore/ mystical presence for truenamers, self-discipline/body unity for martial adepts, contact/ pact strenght for binders. In other words, it's about more the effects per day, it includes a host of impacts on the game. 7- Clean up their campaign settings to make then more accessible for new gamers 8- Tests out till they are sure it's perfect 9- Put it on sale 10- collect the profits, further publishing serving only to provide more flavor. Additional powers would be balanced with previous published material Thats my opinion anyway
Pyke_Moonshadow 08-25-06, 11:34 AM	I see some people wanting many sweeping changes. Aren't such things really a different game and not an evolved game? I mean, 3.5 is still close enough to 1st and 2nd edition that I can tell it is the same game.
Luis_Carlos 08-25-06, 11:54 AM	Daos (evil earth genies), warforged and shifters (weretouched) frome Eberron, nezumi/ratking in the Core Monster Manual. The nagas with two arms (like option). Racial Class to monters-race like PC in the Monster Manual... Some PnC basic class of the DM Handbook to be used like PC: the noble/aristocrat, the adept (with infusions, see Master of the Wild and Incarnations see Urban Arcana or Unearthed Arcanes) and the expert...(perhaps only you can to give non-offesives feats, to avoid the power gamers) The Challenger Rating of the creatures with (and the CR of the same creature but without supernatural and spell-like qualities) This way you can calculate more easily the CR of the creatures with certains templates (like mindless undeads...) More credible creatures....Do you imagine a minotaur or bariauir lowering its hear to gore (atacking with the horns) a small characther (a hafling, a goblin...)? The gnome race opener to PC different to ¨scoundrel/rogue¨ or arcane spellcaster . With other words.. more atractive for the players. (The backround isn´t the trouble). Or at least the spellthief like predilect class to the gnomes. The three core books..... and the almost-core (Psionic, Incarnum and...updated Savage Species (with monster class/racial/paragons of feytouched, dragons, werebeasts/lycantropes, good outsides like arconts, guardinal, elandrins), a Monster Manual (II and III with the most popular creatures (gem, oriental or lung, extraplanar, mist, steel, mercury dragons, springans, nezumi/ratking, etc. Alternative system of magic or similar powers with certain races (feys, undead... someone like World of Darkness (White Wolf): Vampire/¨chupasangres¨ (blood-suckers), werebeast (wolfs, bear, rat, feline, dinosaur!!!!), changelings:the dreaming/fey... A special Fey Magic, with own fey races and alternative magic (like Tome of Magic), and other with the cuasivitae (almost alive), a type of undead-like creature (like the living contructs, the warforged from Eberron). Alignemt like d20 Modern (and more coherent and credible interpretation of the caotic and laws societies or creatures like elandrin), a opener and milder cosmology...(more habitable plane for low-level PCs, the Limbo can changes....but more slowly, like the seasons of year, or semiplanes... like a ¨ethereal plane¨ next to elemental water plane where the PC can breath air). ....and perhaps in a new Unearthed Arcana like option ten abilities and nor only six). - Strengh, Constitution, Intelligence, - Charisma: beauty, liking and/or voice with authority. Intimidate skill - Wisdow: good sense, common sense, spirit or philosphy maturity, serenity... and Sense Motive and Concentration skill. - Dexterity: instantaneous body actions, skills; Ride, Sleight of Hand, Move Silently, Hide. - Techinical (long-time phisical action like the handcrafts, Forgery skill, open lock, perfomn, profession, Heal!!! - Perception: to have more rank in sense skills like Listen, Search, Spot,) or even sense of smell like skill for creatures like animals and magic beasts!!! - ¨Animo¨, courage: faith or hope about the future, wish of living, joy...(This aability is more useful in horror campaigns like Ravenloft or Shadow Chaser (d20 Modern). - Shrewdness: fast mind, improvising, social manipulation,... to have more ranks in Bluff, Survival skills,
Luis_Carlos 08-25-06, 12:20 PM	* Outsiders should have the monster type that makes sense for their creature with an (Extraplanar) subtype. Tieflings should be humanoids, Bezekiras (Hellcats) should be magical beasts, Titans should be Giants, Formians should be Aberations or Monstrous Humanoids. I agree with you... only is enough adding the subtype of planetouched. * Ditch the Great Wheel cosmology, go back to the Great Ring cosmology when the Ethereal plane actually had a purpose. Bring back para- and quasi- elemental planes.. * What is the Vancian system? * Drows, duergars, and svirfneblin with +0 Level Adjustment and 1/2 Challenge Rating when is for PC races, like in the last pages of ¨Player Guide of Faerun¨, (and a paragon class, like from Unearthed Arcana, for them). A transition Plane (Ethereal/Astral/Shadow) like the Spirit Realm or the Umbra Realm/Plane (from World of Darkness)...and I want Horizon Realms like Mage: the Ascension!!!! :mad: :weep: :weep: :weep: :mad:
The_Jester 08-25-06, 05:59 PM	Well, I'm pretty sure WotC will content itself with the Comediums (compendia) for a while before it turns to reprinting/revising the Core books (3.5 Revised Edition). That'll be in late '07 or '08 at the very earliest. A revised 3.5 is needed with complete errata, FAQ, clarified rules, and all the new essential information/spells and updates. Things like swift and immediate actions are just begging to be included. And they can do some much-requested tweaking such as slipping the Sorcerer some bonus feats or something. I see 4th Edition coming out a few years after that. They'll have a surge of sales that will keep the higher ups happy for a while and give them more time to spit-n-polish the new rules. My guess is '11 at the earliest for that; new editions seem to come out just over a decade apart. Anhoo, onto 4E: Really, the 4E PHB and related books should be 100% rules and include no setting information. A big d20 guide book. This should be closer to the d20 modern system where they present the rules then the various styles and options of play, but even more generalized. It might be a good idea to take a page out of White Wolf and have a single coherent rule system (New d20) and then have several expansion books detailing genres (modern world, fantasy, sci-fi, etc). Start with generic classes (much like the strong/smart/charismatic of d20 modern) and have fighter/mage/rogue as Advanced classes in the Dungeons and Dragons genre book (which would be combo DMG and fantasy book). I think pen-n-paper RPGs can now learn something from MMORPGs. Something should be gained after each level. There shouldn't be throw-away levels where you recieve nothing but hit points. There should always be a new spell or feat or minor class ability. Specific changes I would like to see include the DR for armour (a generally loved idea) and a heavily revised spell system. I doubt the latter as it's too ingrained in D&D. Skills need an overhaul. Some should still be combined and there should be more broad categories. Specilization might also be a nice option (skill trees?). And having 4x the number of skill points at first level makes gaining levels in skill-heavy classes harder at higher levels. Multi-classing into rogue is just a bad idea. A rogue/fighter is a very different creature than a fighter/rogue. Randomization in character creation should be optional. Point-buy should be the default. Level adjustment is broken in 3E. It's a great idea and allows players to run monsters but the actual implementation is flawed. It seperates racial abilities from HD/level abilities so a monster really levels like an NPC class (only gaining hp, BAB, saves and feats). I expect 4E to be closer to 3E, much like 1st and 2nd editions were so similar. A big overhaul shouldn't be necassary.
Luis_Carlos 09-02-06, 11:52 AM	All the werebeast in Core Monster Manual, or unles the less usual (bat, crow, hyena, lion, dinosaur, fox..) in a Monster Manual II. The races of korokoboru (oriental ¨dwarfs¨), ratkins and hegeyokai in MM or MM II. In a new Unearthed Arcana the option of new type of gelsat class. One class would be the classic o usual, for the power gamers, and the other would be only ¨harmless or narrative¨skills and class abilites, for interaction (interpersonal relations, investigation, culture...). And I wonder about the convenience of a rewriting or reboot of old campagins like....Birthright, Spelljammer, Mystara, Planescape, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Dragonlance... (I take back this last one, Heresy, heresy!!!!). Or we can justify it like adventures in a replicant plane (a parallel universe, like the episode Mirror, Miror from Star Treck, or Sliders, the TV show).
a_psh 09-02-06, 02:00 PM	1- Have a genuine truce ( not the false one they have today) with it's only real competitor White Wolf and listen to what they have to say, there are many things they are more skilled at then wizards ( the opposite is true also). to survive as the only real competition they have to know their stuff. Ally with them to create the perfect system... Huh? WW and WotC both rely on marketing for the chief success of their RPG brands. With both brands being strongly established now, name recognition is the biggest part of it. People don't play D&D because it's the best RPG they know, they play D&D because it's the only RPG they know. Ditto with Vampire &c. these days (though to a lesser extent). That's not to say that they are bad games -- just that if you dump a ruleset like D&D or WoD into the hands of a small company, it will remain a small company, and that if you dump a ruleset written by a small company into the hands of WotC or WW and let them brand it as "D&D" or "Vampire", it'll sell pretty well even if it sucks. I really don't think o/nWoD and 3.x D&D have very much to learn from each other. Moreover, I think they're far from the cream of the crop as far as good design goes.
Andron 09-02-06, 02:57 PM	Keep it simple and clean. Not so many books. Though I know that goes against any type of retail thinking. I know as DM I could limit what books get used, but I hate telling a player no after they spent their money on a book. besides, there is absolutely no way I'm upgrading my books to 4.0 I'm still getting used to all the variants/additions to 3.5 The only reason why I went from 2nd edition to 3rd edition was beacuse I got books given to me as gifts.
makeshiftwings 09-03-06, 01:32 AM	Hmmm... here's some of what I would like to see: Base combat rules should be simplified, and ideally work well without miniatures. Unfortunately, I believe WotC has already stated that they're going the opposite route for 4e in this regard, and will be trying to enforce miniatures. Fighting classes should be balanced more with spellcasting classes. Fighting classes should have things like "maneuvers" and "techniques" that work similarly to spells for spellcasting classes. This allows martial classes to scale their options and power better as they advance, the same way spellcasters do, as well as making these classes less reliant on magical equipment. Classes built around a niche should be the experts of that niche, and spells/items shouldn't nullify their abilities. For example, a 3rd level wizard is infinitely better at picking locks (Knock), hiding (Invisibility), and smooth talking (Charm) than a 20th level rogue. Instead, I'd rather see the power of these spells tuned down greatly for wizards, and instead have high level rogues gain the current versions of these spells, though they would be considered "supernatural abilities" instead of spells for flavor. Vancian magic should be removed and all earlier books that reference it should be burned in a magnificent pyre. Something needs to be done to make multiclassing a spellcasting class work. PrC's (mystic theurge/eldritch night) should not be used as hacks to fix the problem; there should be a mechanism that balances spellcasting ability for any sensible combination the same way attacks, hit points, and saves are balanced for martial multiclasses.
liquid nitro penguin 09-13-06, 10:06 PM	firstly please dont make 3.5 obsilete. secondly make more neat l.a. creatures there is not enough i neeeed more.
journeyman777 09-13-06, 11:18 PM	A viable hardcore ass-kicking full-BAB Martial Artist (Boxer, Wrestler, Kickboxer, Sumo, Master of Kung Fu, etc) as a Core classI second the motion. 1. I would really like to see the reliance on magic items cut down quite a bit. No more having to buy weapon+x, armor+x, Amulet of Natural Armor+x, Ring of Protection+x, Cloak of Resistance+x, Gloves of Ogre Power+x just to stay even with my own CR. If I'm getting so rich from adventuring, why should I be totally gimped for my level if I donate the money to my church or build myself a mansion? A core version of the VoP benefits would be much simpler. Magic should be for the effects your character can see, not intangible bonuses. (which has the side effect of greatly simplifying magic item identification. 2. All classes should get feats more often. There are literally more draconic feats than any one sorcerer can take by level 40! If there is going to be a thousand+ feats to choose from (what with all the spatbooks) than characters should be able to take more than 6-7 of them.
ArcTan 09-14-06, 12:32 AM	firstly please dont make 3.5 obsilete. secondly make more neat l.a. creatures there is not enough i neeeed more. You've got to be kidding me. LA is a decently cool idea, but LA creatures really don't have that much point to them. Playing them is almost always a mistake.
journeyman777 09-14-06, 02:42 AM	Forgive the shameless quote: "But I can't possibly have any fun unless I get to play some form of demonic livestock!";)
Beavisfett 09-14-06, 02:45 AM	What would I put in 4E nothing!! 3.5 is just fine we dont need another version to spend money on!!!!!
SpawnOfMorgoth 09-14-06, 03:14 AM	Make cannon rules on creating your own balanced core and prestige classes. I realize this will mean 'grading' of class special abilities, but when they are described simply have a CAB (class ability point) value along with the verbage. I know others have suggested formulae in the past, but if your going to make 4.0 lets make it official and balanced! All the proposed rules showed awkward imbalances in some classes (like we didn't notice that without resorting to math:rolleyes: ) Additionally, this would allow us to make our own classes and character conversions from 3/3.5 to 4 without waiting years for enough source books to come out to accurately recreate our old beloved characters.:D
Ripe 09-14-06, 04:30 AM	What would I changed in 4E? 1. Separate level progression charts for different classes [like 2nd ed] 2. Creating magic items give XP, but there is only a percentage chance of success based on caster level 3. Loose Monk class and merge Sorcerer with Wizard 4. Bring back Planescape version of Great Wheel and cosmology 5. No Eberron, Forgotten Realms, OA or any other setting specific stuff in Core rules [no artificer, warforged, Red Wizards, etc.] 6. Make multiclassing more dificult [but keep Prestige Classes] 7. Drop Epic Spells [give epic spellcasters more spell slots per day at epic levels] 8. Limit Epic gameplay to 30-35 levels 9. Deities do not have stats. Their Avatars do [even them are beyond mortal reach] 10. Reduce number of Hit Point gain after 10th level 11. Un-nerf spells 12. Bring back class related XP bonuses 13. Put emphesis on Roleplay not Rollplay 14. Rewrite Divine spellcasting. Make players pray for effect and then have Deities [read this as DM's] grant [or not] appropriate effect which may be higher level than available for particulary devout priests or if in line with deities interests and portfolios [for example godess of love and romance might grant Raise Dead to 1st leve priest(ess) to bring back that priest(ess)'s love back from dead] 15. Pen 'n' paper RPG is not MMORPG. And don't try to turn it into one. And besides, most MMORPG's droped that RPG part. They're MMO's these day.
Otto the Bugbear 09-14-06, 12:57 PM	Some of these were just absorbed from this thread, boiled down, and regurgitated in my own way. A couple are direct quotes and some are my own musings. 1. Okay, for starters, drop Vancian casting. It seems the level of loathing this legacy component has directed toward it is rather immense compared to most other issues (armor as damage reduction being the only thing close.) Because I’ve already designed up an alternate spellcasting system, this is an easy one for me to solve. The Mage (in my sig), and by extension all casters based on that system, becomes the standard bearer to replace “vancian”. The only other I can see working fairly well is one based on the Shadowcaster (Tome of Magic) but with a few changes. The Mage works without requiring a ton of work on spells. To use the Shadowcaster variant would require a lot of spells to have increased versatility. While not entirely impossible, the mage works fairly well as the generic model and could to be used as-is. The current mage has no rules for specialization, but I did write some new ones up. I’m consolidating my magic classes right now, so I wanted to wait until that was finished before posting them. 2. The default for character ability generation should probably be point buy. The 3 variants would be Otto’s Random Array (in my sig), 6+2d6, and 4d6-L 3. Classes with fewer dead levels. The popularity and balance that the scout showed us (and many other classes since then) means that this can be accomplished. Now, this doesn’t mean that full castes should also get a class feature every level. The odd-levels they are already getting a class feature in the next spell level. Even if the class ability is relatively minor, players like to get that stuff. It makes it fun for them. 4. The PHB has an entire chapter devoted to roleplaying and how to help players set-up their background and their character personality. This does not mean that RP text has to be eliminated from various other sections, like the class listings. Just a devoted chapter that covers RP, and leads directly to my next point. 5. Eliminate all mechanical considerations that deal with alignment. Alignment can still be presented in the RP chapter, but all the stupid little effects that rely on alignment would be removed. Allegiances might be represented also. Remember though, that nothing in this RP chapter should be a set in stone rigid guideline that people might misinterpret as having to follow. 6. Even out casting in armor (which I already do). Armor restricts movement for spellcasting, regardless of how you cast (arcane, divine). Make it a caster level check DC 15, with armor imposing a penalty. A few feats might lessen the penalty, but it still requires a roll, and a ‘1’ is still a failure. 7. Instead of arcane/divine, make it arcane/divine/nature. Of course, many of the other types (psionics, incarnum, invocations, etc.) would still be around, but separate druidic casting from divine casting. Druids draw their power from the land, clerics draw their power from their deity. 8. Cases like the Duskblade can eliminate the EK and the Hexblade. That was just an example, but it should work just fine in other examples. 9. Death occurs at negative hit points equal to your Con score. This helps make low levels a less lethal, while making the benefit less noticeable at high levels. 10. No more penalties for multi-classing. Which in turn eliminates favored class, which is fine. 11. Make Psionics into Core Rulebook IV. While inclusion in the PHB is something that a lot of people are clamoring for, imagine the size of the book that has psionics (which will lead to people wanting incarnum included too) on top of all the PHB stuff that’s in there now? Too big, which really just means too much money to buy it. Making it a planned part of the initial core release would work better. This means that the PHB, DMG and MM can all be written to account for Psionics as part of the game setting. 12. Epic level rules that actually look like the first 20 levels of the game. While we’re at it, “epic” shouldn’t be open ended if making it so is too clunky. “Epic” should be the next 20 levels. Deity rules would be beyond that – and by deity, I really mean avatars. Deities don’t have stats, their avatars do. 13. Reworked LA rules. A combination of making some races into LA+0 plus providing paragon levels to bring them up to their implied/accepted LA might work out. I don’t know how this might be accomplished, but something needs to be done. 14. Inclusion of Legacy Weapons (well, Legacy Magic Items) in the DMG, with references to it in the PHB’s roleplaying chapter. 15. Leave the Monk, Ninja, etc. for the Oriental Adventures Handbook. That would be slated to be the next book published right after the core four (PHB, DMG, MM, XPH) 16. Limit the number of ways that a class gains spell levels. I don’t like having so many different lists as it currently stands, with the wizard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, ranger/paladin, and bard in core. Perhaps just three: the half-casters (duskblade, ranger, paladin – up to 5th level spells), the partial caster (bard – up to 7th level spells), and the full casters (up to 9th level spells) 17. Special abilities don’t refer to other classes. For example, Evasion should be in an appendix that can be referred to, not refer to the monk or rogue. 18. Possibly change hit point gain. D6 changes to 1d4+2, d8 changes to 1d6+2, d10 changes to 1d6+4, d12 changes to 1d8+4. 19. Fighter needs a bit of a change (which a lot of us already do). 20. Even out how multi-classing saves work. If you already have a class with a good save, taking a second class with the same good save doesn’t begin at +2, but instead begins at +1, or something of that nature. 21. Institute medium save progression. Easy enough to make it the average between the good save and poor save (round down). This would help tone down a couple classes (druid/cleric become medium fort, poor ref, good will), and bring up a couple others (paladin becomes good fort, poor ref, medium will) 22. The sorcerer is replaced with the specialist spontaneous casters introduced with the warmage. There would be six total: Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Warmage, Oracle, Summoner, Transmutist (Transmuter is taken for the Mage specializing in transmutation magic). 23. Make the warlock core, but work a lot of the flavor around to provide for backgrounds that include fiendish, celestial, fey, elemental, and undead derived powers. 24. Barbarian would allow the choice of rage (core), whirling frenzy (UA), or PHBII. It would also include all the totems found in UA, plus a few more (ram, stag, leopard) 25. Shapeshifter becomes the standard for the druid, but keep the animal companion. Possibly delay shapeshifter entry until level 5, but don’t push the extra forms it grants to higher levels. 26. Paladin becomes a PrC. It is also generic enough that it can apply to any church. Smite Evil changes to Smite Infidel, and Detect Evil becomes Detect Planar Taint. 27. Rewrite prestige classes. They now become advanced classes. Some are tied to organizations, some are not. All of them need to be changed with how requirements are used. Requirements should have several “OR” statements involved. This helps reduce the “must plan it out for 9 levels” syndrome some PrCs have. Requirements also need to be changed to account for what happens when they are lost (for whatever reason). Some class features are lost, some are not; some PrCs you just cannot advance in any more. Whatever, but it does need some work. 28. Feats that continue to grow with the character. This would be based on your BAB for combat feats, your skill ranks for skill feats, and your caster level for metamagic feats. 29. Change Turning Undead. Actually, just change it to “Turning” and allow for clerics of different deities to turn different things. Turning would be Damage = Turning Level x d6. Turn resistance reduces the total damage by 3 for every point of turn resistance. The DC = 10 + half turning level + cha mod to be more in line with other abilities. Knowledge: (appropriate for the creature) 5 ranks gives +1 to turn level. Greater Turning increases damage by 50%. 30. Lose the Death by Massive Damage. Melee types no longer need that mechanic as their version of ‘save-or-die’ spells that are getting slung about. 31. Be sure to include a passage about how to play without minis and the pros (more descriptive storytelling is usually the result), and cons (the DM decides exactly how tactical movement and area effects take place, not the system – i.e. The DM’s whim decides whether I get blasted into little bitty chunks rather than a clearly defined system, but I digress) 32. Consolidation of combat rules and skill rules (counter-tumbling anyone?) 33. More simplified grappling rules. Races of War (by K and Frank Trollman) version should work just fine. 34. Restore Two Weapon Fighting as a viable choice. You may fight with a weapon in your off-hand*. You make a number of attacks equal to the number you make with your main-hand*. All attacks with your main hand suffer a –6 penalty to hit, and all attacks with your off-hand suffer a –10 penalty to hit. If you are using a light weapon in your off-hand, you may reduce these penalties by 2 for your main-hand, and by 6 for your off-hand (each hand suffers a –4 penalty to hit in this case.) Two-Weapon Fighting: You may reduce the penalties for fighting with two weapons by 2. You gain a +2 shield bonus while wielding a weapon in your off-hand. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting: You may reduce the penalties for fighting with two weapons by an additional 1 (minimum 0 penalty). When you make an attack of opportunity, you may attack with both your main-hand and your off-hand. The normal penalties apply to your attack roll. The amount of strength bonus you may apply to your off-hand weapon increases by 2. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting: You may reduce the penalties for fighting with two weapons by an additional 1 (minimum 0 penalty). The amount of strength bonus you may apply to your off-hand weapon increases by 2. You may choose to add the enhancement bonus of either your main-hand or your off-hand weapon to your shield bonus to AC. *“Off-hand” and “main-hand” do not imply that you may only use your hands for these attacks. You may use any viable weapon you are wielding to make these attacks, and must only declare what attack roll is your off-hand for the purposes of applying penalties to hit and bonus damage from strength. 35. Better described flying combat. Lets face it, players find it totally sweet to be flying around chopping up things. Also, ship-to-ship, mass combat (i.e. war), leadership and leading men, command ratings, and strongholds should all be better covered in the DMG. 36. Rework the planes a bit. Not much, but there are a few areas that seem redundant to me. 37. Have a 2-3 year (or longer) plan for future releases. This might help eliminate the duplication of some classes in more than one book. 38. Make sure to name all modifiers/bonuses. In the event that it must go unnamed, that’s fine, but it should be looked at very closely. 39. Have a finite amount of different modifiers. 40. Put a pronunciation guide on the website. 41. “It should be 'school focus' not 'spell focus'. Evocation is a school, fireball is a spell. Get it?” – Molitar 42. Fewer Absolutes as per Sean Reynolds 43. Action points in core (as Eberron) 44. Energy types need to be decided from the start and defined quite clearly and simply. I propose 8 energy types; fire, electricity, acid, cold, sonic, positive, negative, and spirit. The first five port over pretty much exactly as they appear in 3ed. Positive and negative energy remain much the same flavor as they currently appear, but they need to be defined in a more concrete way with regard to what they affect and how they interact with certain objects and creatures. Spirit energy replaces force effects. Force should be left with star wars and something a little more fantasy oriented should be added in its place, thus spirit. 45. Armor as DR, plus class based defensive bonuses. 46. Shields work more like presented in Game of Thrones (they provide AC if the attacker is trying to get around them, or DR if the attacker is trying to brute his way through them.) 47. Stacking magic bonuses (talking items here) would give a cost based on their total bonus, so that +1 sacred/+1 enhancement/+1 morale is the same price as a +3 enhancement 48. Grab some of the armor and weapon from the supplements and make them core. Eliminate some of the more hokey weapons and armor. (Hokey by my definition, mkay.) 49. Rework weapon sizes and how they interact with creatures. A greatsword is a medium weapon, meaning a medium creature can wield it in two hands, or a large creature can wield it in one hand. Likewise, rework bows to actually work based on strength scores, and actually reflect real life maximum range capacities (before magic enhancements are used to increase it). 50. Possibly use vitality points / wound points. 51. Currency needs to be revisited. Characters shouldn’t be expected to carry around the amount of gold it takes to actually make purchases into the thousands of gold pieces. At 1 pound per 50 coins, an 8000 gold piece magic weapon costs the character 160 pounds of gold. Where does the character carry that, and what the hell does a shopkeeper do when you hand it over to him (other than get stabbed in the face by the neighborhood thugs)? Gems are one answer, but the planar currency discussed in Dungeonomicon should be installed as well. 52. Undead need some work too. The Tome of Necromancy has a lot of good ideas. 53. Creature entries would have a ‘typcial tactics’ section to help the DM out. 54. Either bring the half-elf and half-orc up to par with the other core races (they need it), or drop them completely (incompatible physiology). After all, why no half-hobgoblins, or half-dwarves? 55. Drop the color-coded anythings. Dragons and elves are the top offenders. Any dragon can have any color and any of the listed abilities. Elves are a base race, with several traits available (ala shifters in Eberron) to differentiate them. Instead of dark elves being the black-skinned evil dudes, dark elves becomes any elf that consorts with demons, devil, or any other denizen of the lower planes, regardless of what the elf looks like. 56. Expand the Aasimar/Tiefling to cover more. So now they’re descendents of the Baatezu, Tanar’ri, Yugoloths, Modrons, Rilmani, Slaadi, Guardinals, Archons, Eladrins, and Aasimon. 57. Explain what ‘native outsider’ really means: “Outsider” is the type and “native” refers to being native to the prime material plane. Or change it to “outsider [prime material]” to cover the current little oxymoron. 58. Drop the profession skill. Making NPCs use the income rule for profession just hurts. If you want your character to be a sailor, fine, you’re a sailor. Big deal. You don’t need a skill for that. 59. Expand the heal skill to allow very high DCs to overcome even more than it currently does. 60. Make counter-tumbling the default, turning it into an opposed roll rather than a relatively low static number. 61. A full rewriting of how polymorph works. This has been started already, but it needs to just be completed. This likely means polymorph gets toned down, but that’s fine. 62. Have a tiny device hidden in the books that sends a massive electrical shock to anyone who makes the inevitable 5e threads on this board. Wow, only 62. I figured there would be more. That’s me for now. I’m sure some more may come up. Cheers Otto :)
Luis_Carlos 09-14-06, 01:20 PM	Well, I dont´ agree Ripe.. specially the 5, 6 and 10 I would like the Kuehneosaurus (prehistoric flying lizard) like familiar for wizards/scoceres or animal companion for druids and rangers.. http://www.leute.server.de/frankmuster/K/Kuehneosaurus2.jpg Dionasauirs and Pleistocene (Ice Age) beats in Monster Manual (or MM II) I don´t like the fallen-like nose of the trolls, nor the ridiculous bear-like (like the black point of a cuddly toy) one of the ¨espantajos¨ (bugbears). I would rather a nose more...like the feline, or at least no black if the rest of the face isn´t too. In a new Unerathed Arcana, the alternative system of ¨pain points¨. Its like no lethal damage, but when the hit points is zero by the ¨pain¨ then the characther can not bear the pressure and is desmoralized..(making concessions by the torture, running away...). The paint points can not be cured with magic, but it can with actions like art pleassure, sactifaction of victory/vegeance... I would like the Firbolg (Giant from Monster Manual II) like monster class in a new Savage Species. I would like a good backroud for hobgoblins (perhaps somenone like the Planet of Apes Saga), and rules for PC. I like the parangons class of the Unearthed Arcana, for the most popular monster of Savage Species.. The most popular templates like racial/monster class in Savage Species. A template to give of shapeshifters power for no-humaned creatures, for ¨humans-centred¨ campaigns like Urban Arcana or Ravenloft... Perhaps a fusion/union of ¨race compendium¨ and Savage Species for almost-core book.
superdeadsmurf 09-14-06, 03:48 PM	I really like the current system in 3.5, but there are many many problems with it still. I don't want to take out any "sacred cows" there is a reason they are sacred. AC, HP, Alignment, Vancian Wizards and Clerics are here to stay. Why? because that is how the Novels for the supported worlds (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dragonlance and greyhawk to an extent) work, and especially in the case of FR and DL, the novel lines makes FAR more money than the D&D game does in total. The Rules system will support the commonalities of the main campaign settings, so we WILL see Monks etc in the core books. ok, after that I have some fairly unconventional views, but they are design and marketing based decisions not blind hatred of the current systems. There needs to be a complete an utter rebalancing of the classes. Both martial and magical classes should be balanced through all levels of play, though a slight difference is OK making casting classes a mite weaker at lower levels (below 5th), and casters slightly more powerful above the 15th. The Fighter is the only class that should remain untouched (other than perhaps skill choices) And should get feat choices that make her as powerful as any other class. Clerics should lose the automatic simple weapon and heavy armour prof. Only gaining prof in their deitie's favoured weapon, as well as some basics like daggers, crossbows etc. A normal cleric would only gain spells per day based on their wisdom bonus and their domain spells. A level 1 cleric would have a bonus feat/ability choice between "divine champion" and "chosen spellcaster". The champion option gives Heavy Armour Prof & Simple Weapons, the spellcaster option gives the current "normal" spell progression. This should alliviate a lot of the "clerics are too powerful" problems people have and allow more clerical archetypes from the class. The Ranger needs at least one, perferably two or three more combat styles to go with two-weapon and Archery. My suggestions are a two handed weapon style, and a reach weapon style. Bard needs a complete retool, probably making bardic music more powerful, and allowing some bard spells to be cast while using the music abilities. All Spells need to be completely reevalutated. Some abilities need to move up in the level order, some down. Flight is one that needs special consideration. Feats should probably use the "design technology" that Monte Cook used in Arcana Evolved, whereby you only need retake a feat to scale it upwards. So no "weapon focus" and "greater weapon focus" only a line in the feat that says what the feat does when you take it again (and again, and again) Skills: Allow all skills to attempted untrained, some having major penalties when used untrained. Others have trained only applications. Spot and Search should probably be put together into one skill; Hide and Move Silently rolled together into stealth; Roll slight of hand and use rope into one skill. Disguise might be able to be rolled into bluff. Open lock and disable device rolled together. Spellcraft rolled into appropriate Knowledge skills, someone who knows a lot of obscure arcana probably can identify a common spell as it is being cast. Appraise should be able to be used to identify magical items if used by a spellcaster, and Identify just gives them a +20 bonus or somesuch to Appraise. Some more overarching things that need to be changed are creature types. The rules need to allow something to be more than one creature type at the same time, allowing for Undead Plants, and Humanoid Outsiders. Hit Die size needs to untied from creature type, and tied to a creature's in game role. Some more creature types need to be removed- Vermin and Magical Beast should both be animals, possibly with a suptype. Giant should be rolled into Humanoid, as should monsterous humanoid, again with possible subtypes to differentiate them. Damage Reduction needs to apply to spells too. This would nessecitate additional bypass descriptions like "physical" and "energy". Spells with the [Force] descriptor would automatically bypass all DR. 3 to 4 new core base classes in the PHB, My votes would be for Psion, Artificer, Warlock and Hexblade, removing some of the flavour restictions on the later two. Include 3 to 4 more player races. I'd say a rebalaced (no level adjustment, gains Spell-like abilities and SR as hit dice increase) Drow (even though I don't like them much, they are very very popular), Goliath (find a way to remove the level adjustment), Goblin and Changling. Both the Chapters would include a warning "Ask your DM before choosing your race or class, not all these characters are appropriate for all campaigns, and the DM may have additional options for you to choose from." Otherwise the races need to be rebalanced, Dwarves and elves have too much, Half-orcs and Half-elves have too little. Removing "cultural" abilities from both might be part of the fix. The books need to be broken up differently, as a 4th book should be added, "Tome of Magic" or somesuch. It would take all the spells and psionic powers out of the PHB, and all the magic items out of the DMG, giving both more space. This will allow the PHB to include more Feats, classes etc and better explantions for Alignment, Roleplaying and other things. I would like to see some "Greyhawk Basics" in the DMG, enough that a beginner DM can have a world to play in, but no more than 5-10 pages. ok that is all I can think of right now.
makeshiftwings 09-14-06, 05:57 PM	I don't want to take out any "sacred cows" there is a reason they are sacred. AC, HP, Alignment, Vancian Wizards and Clerics are here to stay. Why? because that is how the Novels for the supported worlds (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dragonlance and greyhawk to an extent) work, and especially in the case of FR and DL, the novel lines makes FAR more money than the D&D game does in total. Actually, none of the novels mention AC or HP; most don't mention alignment except in certain specific cases (mage orders in DL) and even then nobody says "Hi, I'm Chaotic Good", and most also avoid ever mentioning the Vancian mechanic (I've only seen it in an Elminster book once; everyone else uses generic fantasy wizard style).
Gendar Manyspell 09-14-06, 07:25 PM	I've heard mention of a 4.0 here and there and this is was I think. The way it is Wizards is coming out with at least one book a month, and have to be making gobs of money. I think the switch from 3.0 to 3.5 was necessary to fix some things. But if wizards puts out a dramatically changed system, for example the change from 2nd AD&D to 3.0, I for one will only see them as a money grubbing corporation.:mad: Not every one is able to go out and drop a couple of hunderd dollars on new books every time Wizards decides to put out a new roll playing system.:rant: If Wizards were to put out a new system. I would like to see 3.5 left alone, with new material still being realeased. And have the new system go under a totally new title, with D&D left totally out of the title. If they do come out with a 4.0, I would be very tempted to burn my books and dice and walk away from roll playing forever.
elondir 09-20-06, 11:37 AM	I would like to see some simplifications: 1. Three spell lists: arcane, divine, and psionic. If you have to limit class access, then do it by limiting schools allowed. 2. Have spontaneous casters use spell points. 3. Three different spell progressions for vancian casters: a four level, a six level, and a nine-level. 4. Make every class ability a feat and grant them as virtual feats. 5. Psionics and incarnum in the PHB. 6. Epic in the PHB, DMG, and MM, with attacks limited to 4 instead of however many you had at 20th level. 7. Less hooplah over balance 8. Eberron-style divinity - stats are silly for actual gods. Demigods and quasi-deites, maybe, but not actual gods. 9. A less-flashy, more encyclopedic look with smaller margins and less graphics per page. Keep magic item and NPC descriptions compact. 10. Fractional BAB. Round down AFTER you sum up fractional BAB from each class. It's roughly the same but makes a wiz1/clr1/rog1 go from +0 BAB to +2 BAB which makes more sense to me.