alter self and enlarge [Archive] - Wizards Community

alter self and enlarge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DragonMage(xxx)>>>>>
02-25-06, 11:48 PM would alter self and enlarge stack together for a size alterations?
Chrono Nexus
02-26-06, 12:11 AM Yes they would. But alter self does not allow you to change into anything with a level adjustment, and last time I checked everything that was bigger than medium had a level adjustment of at least 1.

Are you thinking of altering a familiar and then enlarging it?
pres_man
02-26-06, 12:30 AM Yes they would. But alter self does not allow you to change into anything with a level adjustment, and last time I checked everything that was bigger than medium had a level adjustment of at least 1.
Where did you read this?
You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.
...You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.
I think you might be confusing the template rule with a LA rule. Lots of creatures have level adjustment but you can alter into them (lizardfolk, bugbear, hobgoblin, gnoll, etc.)
DragonMage(xxx)>>>>>
02-26-06, 12:34 AM ok then any suggestions on how can i make my armour and items change with my size alterations? And would i still get a +2 to str from alter self?
Chrono Nexus
02-26-06, 09:19 AM ...of the same type as your normal form.

Bugbear, lizardfolk, and gnolls are monstrous humanoids, not humanoids. Just about the only good humanoids you can change into are Kobolds, Mountain Goblins (climb speed 20), Aquatic Elves (swim speed 40 and water breathing), Forest Gnomes and Deep Dwarves.

I read the spell Alter Self and I checked the MM for large creatures I could alter into. There are none.
pres_man
02-26-06, 10:19 AM Bugbear, lizardfolk, and gnolls are monstrous humanoids, not humanoids.

BUGBEAR
Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)

GNOLL
Medium Humanoid (Gnoll)

LIZARDFOLK
Medium Humanoid (Reptilian)
Also a troglodyte is alson a humanoid and is often used for alter self due to its high natural armor bonus and its claws and teeth.

I read the spell Alter Self and I checked the MM for large creatures I could alter into. There are none.
That's right. I'm not sure about all of the other books, but I think there probably aren't any. Most large "humanoids" become the giant type.

One point of caution about the alter self, just remember you don't get "any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth."

ok then any suggestions on how can i make my armour and items change with my size alterations? And would i still get a +2 to str from alter self?
Well I know with enlarge person, your gear automatically changes size. I also know tha you do not get the +2 to str from alter self.
You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same.
As to what happens to your gear if you are a halfling and alter self into say a lizardfolk. I don't think it is really all that clear in the RAW. Personally, I would have it resize with you and have most armors adjust as well (full-plate may be an issue due to its unique fit).

*****EDIT*****
Just looked over the FAQ. Evidently they are saying that your armor and weapons don't resize, but other gear that is not size specific (rings, cloaks, boots, etc) do. Your armor is going to get absorbed, but your weapons (if they are in your hands at the time, otherwise I think they get absorbed) will stay their original size. Thus a halfling who turns into a lizardfolk wouldn't have his armor and his weapons would be small sized (-2 penalty to use, if possible).

But yes, you can stack the effects of alter self and enlarge. Say a halfling turns into an orc, then puts on medium armor and then gets medium weapons. Then gets enlarged. Then he would now be large with large gear. Just remember if you put down enlarged items, they shrink to their original size.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonMage(xxx)>>>>> 02-25-06, 11:48 PM	would alter self and enlarge stack together for a size alterations?
Chrono Nexus 02-26-06, 12:11 AM	Yes they would. But alter self does not allow you to change into anything with a level adjustment, and last time I checked everything that was bigger than medium had a level adjustment of at least 1. Are you thinking of altering a familiar and then enlarging it?
pres_man 02-26-06, 12:30 AM	Yes they would. But alter self does not allow you to change into anything with a level adjustment, and last time I checked everything that was bigger than medium had a level adjustment of at least 1. Where did you read this? You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself. ...You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype. I think you might be confusing the template rule with a LA rule. Lots of creatures have level adjustment but you can alter into them (lizardfolk, bugbear, hobgoblin, gnoll, etc.)
DragonMage(xxx)>>>>> 02-26-06, 12:34 AM	ok then any suggestions on how can i make my armour and items change with my size alterations? And would i still get a +2 to str from alter self?
Chrono Nexus 02-26-06, 09:19 AM	...of the same type as your normal form. Bugbear, lizardfolk, and gnolls are monstrous humanoids, not humanoids. Just about the only good humanoids you can change into are Kobolds, Mountain Goblins (climb speed 20), Aquatic Elves (swim speed 40 and water breathing), Forest Gnomes and Deep Dwarves. I read the spell Alter Self and I checked the MM for large creatures I could alter into. There are none.
pres_man 02-26-06, 10:19 AM	Bugbear, lizardfolk, and gnolls are monstrous humanoids, not humanoids. BUGBEAR Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid) GNOLL Medium Humanoid (Gnoll) LIZARDFOLK Medium Humanoid (Reptilian) Also a troglodyte is alson a humanoid and is often used for alter self due to its high natural armor bonus and its claws and teeth. I read the spell Alter Self and I checked the MM for large creatures I could alter into. There are none. That's right. I'm not sure about all of the other books, but I think there probably aren't any. Most large "humanoids" become the giant type. One point of caution about the alter self, just remember you don't get "any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth." ok then any suggestions on how can i make my armour and items change with my size alterations? And would i still get a +2 to str from alter self? Well I know with enlarge person, your gear automatically changes size. I also know tha you do not get the +2 to str from alter self. You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. As to what happens to your gear if you are a halfling and alter self into say a lizardfolk. I don't think it is really all that clear in the RAW. Personally, I would have it resize with you and have most armors adjust as well (full-plate may be an issue due to its unique fit). ***EDIT*** Just looked over the FAQ. Evidently they are saying that your armor and weapons don't resize, but other gear that is not size specific (rings, cloaks, boots, etc) do. Your armor is going to get absorbed, but your weapons (if they are in your hands at the time, otherwise I think they get absorbed) will stay their original size. Thus a halfling who turns into a lizardfolk wouldn't have his armor and his weapons would be small sized (-2 penalty to use, if possible). But yes, you can stack the effects of alter self and enlarge. Say a halfling turns into an orc, then puts on medium armor and then gets medium weapons. Then gets enlarged. Then he would now be large with large gear. Just remember if you put down enlarged items, they shrink to their original size.