Alternative XP Calculation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative XP Calculation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GuyinCognito
01-31-05, 01:52 AM I just wish more of 3e even acted like 2e existed....so the CR system leaves a WHOLE lot to be desired, mainly structure. Here's an XP chart idea similar to 2e's way: XP Chart (http://www.geocities.com/planetaddis/Experience.html) (I won't clutter this board...)

For example a 4 HD creature with an AC of 15 capable of causing 1d8 damage, and immune to fire:
4 (HD) + 1 (AC) + 1 (dmg) + 2 (Immune to fire) = 8 (as XP#)
This creature is worth 1,220 XP to a single 1st level character. But lets say it was battled by 3 1st levels: 1220 / 3 = 407 each. 407 / 1st level = 407 XP per character.

I used it a couple of times and it came out pretty good. I just like having a more exact way of telling what a +4 jump score is worth vs. a +8 jump score etc... Any ideas / thoughts? Should the values be tweaked?
necromancer787
01-31-05, 10:46 AM The actual idea is pretty damn good, but it'd be really confusing. Especially if a DM were to create a new creature. But almost anything is better than the DMG's eddition. Maybe I'll toy around with this idea myself.... :plotting:
Seeker95
01-31-05, 11:05 AM Makes me all the more happy that I don't use experience points!
Dragon Rider
01-31-05, 05:04 PM If I remember correctly Unearthed Arcana has a variant rules sytem for calculating exp wihtout tkaing into account the CR of monster and the CR of characters, just like 2nd edition

I would also like to congratulate you on adding to and adapting from the 2nd edition DMG rules for determining exp of monsters(if that is what you did)

(The above is not sarcasm although it may sound like it, because one cannot portray emotion in text nor can one type vocal tone)
Stuntman
01-31-05, 07:01 PM I wonder if WotC used a similar guideline to determine the CR of monsters. I looks like an interesting system. The only thing is it makes it a lot more work to find the XP of a creature. You basically have to go down the list and see what applies. The MM already has the CR listed for all monsters.

The other thing about your system is that it does not take into account the fact that a party of level 4 characters will have an easier time than a party of level 3 characters. With your system, both parties will receive the same amount of XP whereas with 3E and 3.5, the lower level party will receive more. I think this is your intent anyway, to not take into account the level of the party, since you thought it was too complex in that sense.
GuyinCognito
02-01-05, 01:33 AM Please dont confuse the ease of calculating and using CRs from the MM books with a smooth system: they are set for you. (The MM3 is very cool btw.) What if you wanted to increase an ability of a creature a little? What if one was able to Hide 4 points better? How does that change the CR? Let alone your own creations! 2e just gave some better guidelines with fewer rules for groups of creatures, pairs of creatures, etc. (don't have Unearthed Arcana sorry...)

So I guess it depends on your basic philosophy. Read on knowing that I fall into the consistent calculation group. If you are going to mess with charts in the first place why not throw in a calculator and make it more accurate? As a 2nd Edition DM after I knew the HD modifiers well enough that I could nail a creature XP very closely by heart. The key is table-defined consistency. If I was going to approximate the XP I would simply assign at will and cut out the headaches all together. Then it would be exactly what I think the PCs deserve!

Ok so if you have read this far then you are DM type #2. I simply enjoy the responses of others of my ilk (good and bad.)

((Know that the table I used could be broken down even farther to accomidate minor AC differences, but the DM can mentally see that if an AC of 14 is +1 to the XP# an AC of 17 would be +1.5 and so forth.))

Actually, I think that this does account for party level, in the sense that the reward is keyed to YOUR level. Want a blanket party level? Just substitue Avg Party level for individual PC level on step#3. You could certainly use this if the level difference in the PCs made the fight harder for a single high level party member. But these are the infrequent cases not the norm. PLUS this way lets me just multiply by the # of creatures of that type and move on. (I plan on using it!!!)

((I did update the XP level sience my last post, I think the XP was a bit high. Basic concept still in effect.)) So lets get a complicated example, ok?

Creature: Great Blue Wyrm (pg 65)Attribute = value
------------------
565 hp / 8 = +70
44 AC = +8.5
use of a Breath Weapon = +2 (an area effect)
Max damage 24d8(192) = +38
Flies = +1
Highly Intelligent = +1
Electricity Immunity = +2
DR 20/+5 = +5
Dragon Fear = +2 (Weakness or fear)
Spell Resistance = +9
Claw claw bite 4d6/2d8/2d8 = +11
Crush special attack = +2 (Attack form, Non-magical, unlisted)
I would clump these as +5) Attack form, Magical, unlisted:
Quicken spell like ability
Ventriloquism
Hallucinatory Terrain
Mirage Arcana
Veil
Create/Destroy water
Sound Imitation
Total XP# = 156.5
on table 1 this is worth: 1,334,380 XP to a single 1st level character
so for four 20th level adventruing stud-muffins we take it divided by 4 divided by 20 for a result of (brrrrr! ting!): 16,680 XP each. I think they'd deserve it after one of those things!!!
If the party was a 15th level, 18th, 20th, and 24th they each would get:
(15th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 15 = 22,240
(18th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 18 = 18,533
(20th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 20 = 16,680
(24th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 24 = 13,900
So just about eveyone would gain a level, but were talking about a God-of-monsters here. Most of my players pack calculators so they can help out if i say "x" divided by your level... If you wanted to take average party level, just figure it and use that instead of individual levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GuyinCognito 01-31-05, 01:52 AM	I just wish more of 3e even acted like 2e existed....so the CR system leaves a WHOLE lot to be desired, mainly structure. Here's an XP chart idea similar to 2e's way: XP Chart (http://www.geocities.com/planetaddis/Experience.html) (I won't clutter this board...) For example a 4 HD creature with an AC of 15 capable of causing 1d8 damage, and immune to fire: 4 (HD) + 1 (AC) + 1 (dmg) + 2 (Immune to fire) = 8 (as XP#) This creature is worth 1,220 XP to a single 1st level character. But lets say it was battled by 3 1st levels: 1220 / 3 = 407 each. 407 / 1st level = 407 XP per character. I used it a couple of times and it came out pretty good. I just like having a more exact way of telling what a +4 jump score is worth vs. a +8 jump score etc... Any ideas / thoughts? Should the values be tweaked?
necromancer787 01-31-05, 10:46 AM	The actual idea is pretty damn good, but it'd be really confusing. Especially if a DM were to create a new creature. But almost anything is better than the DMG's eddition. Maybe I'll toy around with this idea myself.... :plotting:
Seeker95 01-31-05, 11:05 AM	Makes me all the more happy that I don't use experience points!
Dragon Rider 01-31-05, 05:04 PM	If I remember correctly Unearthed Arcana has a variant rules sytem for calculating exp wihtout tkaing into account the CR of monster and the CR of characters, just like 2nd edition I would also like to congratulate you on adding to and adapting from the 2nd edition DMG rules for determining exp of monsters(if that is what you did) (The above is not sarcasm although it may sound like it, because one cannot portray emotion in text nor can one type vocal tone)
Stuntman 01-31-05, 07:01 PM	I wonder if WotC used a similar guideline to determine the CR of monsters. I looks like an interesting system. The only thing is it makes it a lot more work to find the XP of a creature. You basically have to go down the list and see what applies. The MM already has the CR listed for all monsters. The other thing about your system is that it does not take into account the fact that a party of level 4 characters will have an easier time than a party of level 3 characters. With your system, both parties will receive the same amount of XP whereas with 3E and 3.5, the lower level party will receive more. I think this is your intent anyway, to not take into account the level of the party, since you thought it was too complex in that sense.
GuyinCognito 02-01-05, 01:33 AM	Please dont confuse the ease of calculating and using CRs from the MM books with a smooth system: they are set for you. (The MM3 is very cool btw.) What if you wanted to increase an ability of a creature a little? What if one was able to Hide 4 points better? How does that change the CR? Let alone your own creations! 2e just gave some better guidelines with fewer rules for groups of creatures, pairs of creatures, etc. (don't have Unearthed Arcana sorry...) So I guess it depends on your basic philosophy. Read on knowing that I fall into the consistent calculation group. If you are going to mess with charts in the first place why not throw in a calculator and make it more accurate? As a 2nd Edition DM after I knew the HD modifiers well enough that I could nail a creature XP very closely by heart. The key is table-defined consistency. If I was going to approximate the XP I would simply assign at will and cut out the headaches all together. Then it would be exactly what I think the PCs deserve! Ok so if you have read this far then you are DM type #2. I simply enjoy the responses of others of my ilk (good and bad.) ((Know that the table I used could be broken down even farther to accomidate minor AC differences, but the DM can mentally see that if an AC of 14 is +1 to the XP# an AC of 17 would be +1.5 and so forth.)) Actually, I think that this does account for party level, in the sense that the reward is keyed to YOUR level. Want a blanket party level? Just substitue Avg Party level for individual PC level on step#3. You could certainly use this if the level difference in the PCs made the fight harder for a single high level party member. But these are the infrequent cases not the norm. PLUS this way lets me just multiply by the # of creatures of that type and move on. (I plan on using it!!!) ((I did update the XP level sience my last post, I think the XP was a bit high. Basic concept still in effect.)) So lets get a complicated example, ok? Creature: Great Blue Wyrm (pg 65)Attribute = value ------------------ 565 hp / 8 = +70 44 AC = +8.5 use of a Breath Weapon = +2 (an area effect) Max damage 24d8(192) = +38 Flies = +1 Highly Intelligent = +1 Electricity Immunity = +2 DR 20/+5 = +5 Dragon Fear = +2 (Weakness or fear) Spell Resistance = +9 Claw claw bite 4d6/2d8/2d8 = +11 Crush special attack = +2 (Attack form, Non-magical, unlisted) I would clump these as +5) Attack form, Magical, unlisted: Quicken spell like ability Ventriloquism Hallucinatory Terrain Mirage Arcana Veil Create/Destroy water Sound Imitation Total XP# = 156.5 on table 1 this is worth: 1,334,380 XP to a single 1st level character so for four 20th level adventruing stud-muffins we take it divided by 4 divided by 20 for a result of (brrrrr! ting!): 16,680 XP each. I think they'd deserve it after one of those things!!! If the party was a 15th level, 18th, 20th, and 24th they each would get: (15th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 15 = 22,240 (18th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 18 = 18,533 (20th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 20 = 16,680 (24th level): 1,334,380 / 4 / 24 = 13,900 So just about eveyone would gain a level, but were talking about a God-of-monsters here. Most of my players pack calculators so they can help out if i say "x" divided by your level... If you wanted to take average party level, just figure it and use that instead of individual levels.