Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lawnor 03-28-04, 05:49 PM	My group and I had a session today and we are playing through the Speaker in Dreams module. We reached a stage where the module tells the DM to hand out XP before carrying on. 2 of my party hit 7th lvl and 2 stayed at 6th, one short by 250xp and me short by 8xp. The very next encounter was EL12 and the DM knew this. I died. I hit -10hp on the dot from magic missile damage. I am upset by this. In the past when I have DM'ed for my group (which has been for most of the time we have been together I think) I have always allowed PCs that close to a level (close being a goblin-or-two's-worth) to owe me the XP and take the level, especially when something difficult is about to happen. Now my character is dead (which I can deal with. The nearest ressurection is a week or two away and will cost our party over 5000gp, which is a bit of a problem half way through a module) when if I had been allowed the 8XP I would have 1d4+2 (mage with a con bonus) HP to bleed to death through and the combat was over a few rounds after and I had a cleric standing next to me when I died. As I said, the death I can deal with. I don't like it, and I think its a little unfair, even though I agree it is fair by the letter of the rules. A death at any other stage time I would not make an issue out of. What really annoys me is that when I get raised I wont drop from 7th lvl to half way between 6th and 7th , but I will drop from the very cusp of 7th lvl to half way between 5th and 6th. Now my question is am I being a poor looser by feeling cheated at not being given the 8XP when the party leveled up, and by being angry and feeling picked on by being made to loose 7500xp instead of 3000xp all because of 8xp, or is my mood understandable and reasonable? Would you be upset if your DM did this, or would you grin and bear it, knowing that he had stuck to the letter of the rules? Am I being a nusance to my party and DM by complaining, or should I expect back up from my fellow PC's?
Teh Lurv 03-28-04, 06:53 PM	I think you are just the victim of bad luck.
thalious 03-28-04, 07:06 PM	As stated, the Death is "fair" by the book, but being short a level by 8xp is too dang close. IMO, situations like this is perfect time for a DM to hand out some RP XP.
Iksander 03-28-04, 08:27 PM	Yes.
neoneogeo 03-28-04, 09:33 PM	Random thought: Two planes collide together in a massive explosion. “Look, they nearly missed.” “Yes but, not quite.” There is no grey area when it comes to death. Its white & black, 8xp should mean nothing to you or your PC. XP tends to be irrelevant in a role-playing situation. Magical means to resurrect a character should only be relevant if possible. For me, it usually takes a little more than 10,000gp to get a resurrection.
Soichiro Arima 03-28-04, 09:41 PM	Lawnor if I was you I would ask your DM to let you be resurected half way to 7th and if they say no well then Kick them and leave the group becuase that many levels behind you are completly screwed for the rest of the game unless you get a few solo adventures. I have played a level 5 in a group of level 7s before and it wasn't so bad becuase it was mainly a RP campaign but when combat did come up I was always hideing. one hit from anything we were fighting would kill me.
Seeker95 03-28-04, 10:10 PM	You died. Get over it.
thalious 03-28-04, 10:18 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 You died. Get over it. Bravo on the oh so helpful reply. :rolleyes:
SputnikCorp 03-28-04, 10:25 PM	it's bad luck and your being pissy. accept it and wait for the ressurection.
was_fired 03-28-04, 10:40 PM	Yep, your just being a sore loser sorry.
Dresdor 03-28-04, 10:55 PM	I'd say you weren't cheated, and the DM was correct in his methods. There are level-up barriers for a reason. While 8xp is a minor thing (like it's been said a goblin or two) it is still 8xp. You didn't quite earn the right to be 7th level. Additionally if you had reached 7th level, then the other person would have complained saying he was only 250 xp away, and he'd gain that in the next encounter. The barriers for level-up are there for a reason. You don't reach enough xp for the next level...you don't get the next level.
Iksander 03-28-04, 11:17 PM	Originally posted by Soichiro Arima Lawnor if I was you I would ask your DM to let you be resurected half way to 7th and if they say no well then Kick them and leave the group becuase that many levels behind you are completly screwed for the rest of the game unless you get a few solo adventures. That's simply untrue. The D&D system is somewhat self-balancing and you'll eventually catch-up.
Chaser 03-29-04, 02:02 AM	Originally posted by Iksander That's simply untrue. The D&D system is somewhat self-balancing and you'll eventually catch-up. From what I understand, some folks don't do the experience points based on each character's level, but instead on average level, and then divided evenly.... too much math to do it the self-balancing way. To Lawnor: next time someone is eight xp away, volunteer eight of your own experience and see if the DM will let it fly. If he does, it can help with camraderie and such, and it's not 'free' experience. The DM might say no, or might impose a limit on the practice. Why would you do it? It helps to have more powerful characters around, sometimes, and that camraderie, or karmaraderie, might eventually get back around to you.
Lankin the Mad Mage 03-29-04, 02:18 AM	I think the point we're missing is that the DM let a party of 6th level and 7th level people face an EL 12 encounter!! An EL 2 higher than party is considered challenging, isn't it? So what happens when you double it??! Somehow, any DM who knows that a 6th lvl party will face EL 12 should either change the adventure or give moe XP.
Quenditar 03-29-04, 02:35 AM	Originally posted by Lankin the Mad Mage I think the point we're missing is that the DM let a party of 6th level and 7th level people face an EL 12 encounter!! An EL 2 higher than party is considered challenging, isn't it? So what happens when you double it??! Somehow, any DM who knows that a 6th lvl party will face EL 12 should either change the adventure or give moe XP. I have almost no DM experience, and I agree. A difference of 3 between party level and encounter level seems ample latitude for a TPK - a difference of 6 says that the encounter shouldn't have happened.
farghal 03-29-04, 07:48 AM	the DM is always right BUT you need to keep the game as fun as possible to play for every one (but by the rules the DM has set of course) the DM was right by the the rules i agree with that BUT the DM knew something hard was comming up that should need a level 7 group. I don't think you can just GIVE XP but he could have had you had a little roleplay XP (example a little fairy needs help somewhere on your road, you help the little creature and gain some XP) this way it's logical and fair to the player. in short: It's fair by the rules but unfair for the player(s). I rest my case
Null Boundry 03-29-04, 08:11 AM	Personally I think it sounds a little unfair. When DMing I always check to see how close they are to the next level, any thing less than about 100 xp and I'll allow them to level up. Primarily I started this as it speeds up the game, you don't have to wait multiple times for people to level up their sheets.
Will Brandiman 03-29-04, 08:34 AM	Not making the next level is not unfair. You didn't earn as much xp as the other party members so why should you be the same level? What is unfair is throwing an EL12 encounter against a party with an average level of 6.5! The most you can expect to handle is 10 or 11 and that's probably pushing you to the very limits and expecting at least one member of the party to die during the encounter.
TheRedRobedWizard 03-29-04, 08:34 AM	That "very next encounter" can be AVOIDED by smart players. This is the time where you learn to think things through and move on. Chalk it up to a learning experience. Speaker in Dreams is a NON-LINEAR adventure. The "very next encounter" only happens that way if players make bad choices. -------------------------SPOILER WARNING------------------------ Don't EVER EVER EVER follow an Ogremage into a blind alley. Don't EVER walk brazenly through town if there's a "no walking around after dark and/or with weapons" edict from a baron. Don't EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER act without thinking while you're in a city controlled by an evil force of one kind or another. You have to outthink the opposition. If you kids weren't smart enough, that's your own dang fault. In the infinitely wise words of Seeker, "You died. Get over it." -TRRW
DragonRg6 03-29-04, 08:34 AM	I DM frequently; I try to give the players challenging encounters (i.e. 2-4 levels higher), and then I strategically place some NPC to come to the rescue if all goes pear-shaped. I also encourage tactics from the players - I tell them NOT to charge headlong at the dragon, and to consider the situation carfully. With well-played out maneuvers, I've had a party defeat a CR 14 monster (By no means a stupid one) at level 8 (I've never tried to repeat this; I was highly suspicious when one character successfully confirmed 3 criticals with a longbow, but apparantly, he was telling the truth...).
farghal 03-29-04, 09:25 AM	i still think it's kinda unfair but i do have to agree on the part that may'be the group could have avoided the fight.
zodiki 03-29-04, 09:38 AM	I wouldn't say you are being a poor loser, but you have to accept the good with the bad. Your beef with the DM has some merit, but it's unclear if having leveled up would have saved you anyway. For one thing Magic Missile is not defendable (without magic or SR) and even if you had got more hps, you were probably still down and might have died anyway.
Glak 03-29-04, 09:42 AM	The important thing is, when will your character catch up? Depending on how your party does XP you could never catch up. In that case make a new character. If you will catch up in what you consider a reasonable time (which for me would be two sessions max) then suck it up. I've been the player behind in levels before and it is horrible. Most DMs have no idea what it is like. If you can't work something out where you are equal level to the others really soon I honestly suggest quitting the campaign. If you guys are all buddies that should derail it. However it isn't your fault, let the DM take the fall.
Bacon and Eggs 03-29-04, 09:48 AM	8, that's an unusual number. And a mage you say. :mymy: Was their any item creation things that were performed that would cause this seperation of XP amount? Because if it is, then the player has already taken that number/amount under their control.
Lawnor 03-29-04, 10:12 AM	WARNING: The Third Paragraph contains spoilers. I had made some magic items and I accept that I would have made the level if I hadn't made those items. Also, as I said I accept that I am dead (although I am unhappy about it, but who likes dying?). Its the fact that by dying 8xp away from lvl 7 I will be resurected at lvl 5.5 (instead of 6.5 if I had that 8XP), when the rest of the party are already lvl 7 and have to finish the module off and travel for at least a week before I can be ressurected. AND I am DMing the next module so if my character manages to catch up on XP during that time its gonna look like I'm cheating. As for rolling up a new character, it'd have to be a mage as thats what my 4 man party is missing and this character is the only mage I want to play at the moment. I suppose his twin brother could turn up but that again seems like cheating. Also, as my party is now down a mage and has perhaps half a module to go I now have to make up a new mage to play until they get my other character ressurected. All i'm really asking for now is that my DM says I earned 8XP in the combat before I died, even though no XP is earned until the encounter is over and then only by those still breathing. Is that being whiny? I cast many spells and a few badies died before I did. TheRedRobedWizard, I know we could have avoided the encounter but I was roleplaying, as was the rest of the group. The town had just thrown us a party saying congrats for saving them all, but for us it didn't feel like the end. There was no BBEG gloating about his plan. No gate being opened. No documentation or evidence explaining their plan or what was going on. No sense of closure, but no leads to investigate. So when the ogre attacked we knew it was a trap but we went after him anyway. It was either that or leave the town in danger (and ourselves if he followed us back to the tavern and killed us in our sleep that night).
Iksander 03-29-04, 10:28 AM	Originally posted by TheRedRobedWizard Speaker in Dreams is a NON-LINEAR adventure. The "very next encounter" only happens that way if players make bad choices. IF the DM has done his job and given ample forewarning, then I heartily agree that it's the players own stupid fault for walking into such a deadly encounter. I hate it how players blame the DM for everything that goes wrong in a damn game. It's a GROUP effort. If you're playing stupidly, then expect to have your character die, and have the decency not to complain about it.
Twilly 03-29-04, 11:18 AM	Just ask your DM if you can get ressurected as though you would have earned that 8xp. If your DM agrees and the group doesn't make a fuss about it, there is no problem. And if you don't get that 8xp then just forget about your inconvenient death. Don't think about it for too long. I (as a DM and player) wouldn't have much difficulty with awarding that extra xp. Maybe he has a little adventure in heaven for you, before you get ressurected. Maybe it is enough for those extra xp you need. Just talk about it see what happens, and deal with whatever the outcome is.
SnowbearK 03-29-04, 12:02 PM	Wait, so you knew it was a trap and still went after the Ogre? As the Soup Nazi would say....No sympathy for YOU. One year! NEXT! I have no problem with players seperating Player Knowledge and Character Knowledge. That's a great thing, absolutely wonderful. But if your character is halfway intelligent, they have instincts too. If your gut instinct tells you it's a trap, there's no reason your character couldn't feel that way either. Unless you're roleplaying an all-action-no-brains-HalfOrc-Barbarian-On-'roids, there's no excuse for lacking common sense just because you want to avoid mixing Player/Character knowledge. Best advice, accept it as a Learning Experience for you. You made a mistake, learn from it, don't whine about it. Also, if a DM puts you up against an encounter that high, why in Pelor's name would you NOT run the hell away? Just because you know your character can't handle a certain level doesn't mean your character isn't going to encounter it. Lots of people run into things they can't handle. Smart people run away. Dead people don't. How else do peasants live to spread rumors of adventure?
Hogre 03-29-04, 03:31 PM	Originally posted by Chaser From what I understand, some folks don't do the experience points based on each character's level, but instead on average level, and then divided evenly.... too much math to do it the self-balancing way. No. You are supposed to do the xp based on the group's level. The self-balancing comes in because of the xp needed for each level. The amount needed keeps doubling every level, so that low levels eventually catch up in level, even though they are the same number of xp behind the others as they were when they started.
Hot Rod 03-29-04, 03:54 PM	Originally posted by Hogre No. You are supposed to do the xp based on the group's level. The self-balancing comes in because of the xp needed for each level. The amount needed keeps doubling every level, so that low levels eventually catch up in level, even though they are the same number of xp behind the others as they were when they started. That was first or second ed Hogre, 3rd got away from the exponential (doubling) xp requirements. In 3.5 the lower level PC is supposed to recieve larger xp rewards for an encounter based on his level vs the CR of the encounter as well from what I've heard. Having faced TPKs from Party level +4 CR encounters I can sympatize, unfortunately the only good advice is to metagame and become a careful coward when you have so much to lose so close to levelling.
farghal 03-30-04, 01:09 AM	if you have fought for one or two rounds with the ogre you have earned the 8 xp and thus start at level 6.5 it's really simple is'nt it? :D and fair normaly you would gain xp at the end of combat but when you die does that mean your character have'nt learned anything from the fight short before? no he has earned the 8 xp just before he died and that's according to the rules
Lawnor 03-30-04, 01:51 AM	I thought the books said you only get XP for overcomming challenges. This means that you can face a dragon surrounded by 1000 kobolds, kill off every single kobold and get whomped on by the dragon and run away. You would not have overcome the encounter so would not get any XP. Anyway, the encounter clearly overcame me. After 10 minutes of badgering after the sesion I got my DM to agree to think about letting me die at 7th lvl, but that was the last I heard of it, and I suspect he only said that shut me up. He does also keep saying unpleasent things like "You're assuming you will get to raise your character", which I don't like much.
Droog 03-30-04, 01:55 AM	Originally posted by Glak If you can't work something out where you are equal level to the others really soon I honestly suggest quitting the campaign. If you guys are all buddies that should derail it. However it isn't your fault, let the DM take the fall. So, if he doesn't get what he wants, he should derail the whole campaign/module? That would hardly be fair to the other players, or the DM. That is definitely the mark of a sore loser in my book. I would avoid this solution if I were you, but that's my opinion.
Drindin 03-30-04, 02:26 AM	Characters die. I NEVER, EVER let my character level up before they have the XP to, even if it's only 1 xp. In such a case, I give them some puny little encounter to tide them over. My players always stay at the same point in experience, cause I'm a nice guy in that sense. In the party that I play in, not DM, I'm two levels behind. Whoopdee doo. I'm there to have fun. Sure, it's disappointing that I stay so low, but it's still totally awesome! He's a multiclass character, and that might be the problem... though I'm pretty sure it's cause my dm don't play with ECL's or LA's.
farghal 03-30-04, 02:58 AM	if you are fighting you get experience along the way if you kill a creature you learn from that. it's not as if you have finished the fight and then all of a sudden your learn wahat you did 5 minutes ago thats nonsens and unrealistic so i think you should die as a level 7 character.
Finley DaDum 03-30-04, 03:11 AM	**********mentions spoiler from earlier************** I got a question you said you were in town and celebrating saving the town and then the Ogre attacked. Did the Ogre attack the town or the party? Some people here are saying well if you could have avoided the fight then its tough luck. But if the Ogre is attacking the town well, unless your characters are pretty heartless bastards I don't see how you can avoid the fight and then I gotta put the Kill on the DM for running a fight way over your head.
Large Gnoll 03-30-04, 09:36 AM	Your DM sucks. Come on!!! It's 8 xp, what's wrong with you people ... Especially a mage ... it makes all the difference when you're gonna be faced with an EL12 encounter.
Seeker95 03-30-04, 10:06 AM	Video Games. Damn video games. They've turned the new generation of D&D players into "do over junkies". The character died. The character had not leveled up. Get over it.
Lawnor 03-30-04, 10:16 AM	WARNING SPOILER in second paragraph For those of you saying if my DM was kind he would have given us a small encounter so I could have leveled: On our way to the module we made a joke about how there wer eno random encounters along the way so he made us fight a wolf or a worg or something. Because I blew it up before it got close enough to attack he said it wasn't worth any XP, even though the rules said the the 2 PCs who were present should have got 150XP each. Hmm Writing thise I see my DM is a little hyppochrytical (sp?). How can the XP be bound by the rules to the point where it allows me to die, and yet he ignores them when he feels like it? SPOILER: The ogre attacked us when we were alone at night, haveing left the celebrations to go home. We could have ignored it but that would have left us with no clue what to do next (and OOC would have felt like trampling all over and ignoring the pre-written module again)
Krelios 03-30-04, 11:00 AM	Now my question is am I being a poor looser by feeling cheated at not being given the 8XP when the party leveled up, and by being angry and feeling picked on by being made to loose 7500xp instead of 3000xp all because of 8xp, or is my mood understandable and reasonable? Would you be upset if your DM did this, or would you grin and bear it, knowing that he had stuck to the letter of the rules? Am I being a nusance to my party and DM by complaining, or should I expect back up from my fellow PC's? No, you're perfectly justified. Your DM is a d**k. As a DM, if someone is that close to levelling, give them the 8xp and subtract it from their next award so they level with the rest of the group. If you're a wizard, was the only reason you were behind because you were crafting items for the party? I hope your DM isn't going to screw you over for helping the others. They should have been arguing right beside you. Besides--experience is an abstract system. No one actually sees experience points going overhead, nor does it makes sense that every fighter in the world could attain the same level and have very different skills or abilities by systematically killing the same number/type of things. Levelling represents learning, and in this case, you learned that your DM cares more about the rules than the game. If he won't budge, you should definately leave.
Remnant 03-30-04, 11:03 AM	The rules regarding PC death are there to keep death a serious threat. That said, I beleive it would be far more prudent to follow the spirit of the rule, rather than the letter. (Of coruse, since I DM with that in mind, I have infuriated more than one rules lawyer.) In this instance, the PC is facing a rather severe penalty for death- effectively, losing an additional level for the want of 8xp. The rules suggest that a single lost level is enough to ensure that death is taken seriously. While the argument could be made that, had the character gained 7th, he would really be losing only half a level, I am usually willing to err on the side of good spirits, as well as keeping the party from moving toward a wide range of levels- which is not only more work for the DM, but can be frustrating for the players as well. In this particular instance, were I DMing, I would make a special ruling. The PC was 99.96% of the way to 7th level, and so he would be dropped to 99.96% of the way to 6th level. In other words, he would be at 14,994xp- 6xp away from 6th level. The player would not face an excessively severe punishment, but nor would the rules be flagrantly disrespected, and the integrity of their spirit would be maintained. This penalty also falls roughly midway between the XP he would be at after having lost 7th level, and the XP he would be at for dying at 6th level. (In addition, you are not being a poor loser. It is natural to feel furstrated when you lose something important to you, even marginally so. You are only a poor loser if you take these feelings out on your group by trying to ruin their good time. Some complaining is perfectly acceptable.)
Sulaco 03-30-04, 11:24 AM	Originally posted by Lawnor Now my question is am I being a poor looser by feeling cheated at not being given the 8XP when the party leveled up... Yes and no. While the situation was perfectly within the letter of the rules, any GM worth his dice would've just given you the 8xp and let you level up with the rest of the party, particularly if he only allows level-ups at certain points rather than whenever you get enough XP. If the exact letter of the rules was all that mattered, you wouldn't need a DM. The reason we have DMs is for stuff like this, for judgement calls and flexible situations.
reanjr 03-30-04, 01:10 PM	This is as good a reason I have EVER heard for not allowing characters to level up in the middle of an adventure. I rarely even tell my players their XP until after the adventure is over or at least they find a place to rest for long enough for them to be at full health, etc.
Glak 03-30-04, 02:59 PM	"So, if he doesn't get what he wants, he should derail the whole campaign/module? That would hardly be fair to the other players, or the DM. That is definitely the mark of a sore loser in my book. I would avoid this solution if I were you, but that's my opinion." If his character is destroyed (and yes the rules some people play his character is permanently destroyed) he won't have fun playing. Why be a cohort? If you are behind your saves are worse and your hp lower. That makes you more likely to die. Eventually his character could be 1st level. That doesn't work. If his fellow players allow the DM to do this to him he needs to rethink who he plays with. A sore loser is someone who deals badly with a loss. If you lose your character permanently and accept it that is normal. But being forced to play a defective character (one that continuously goes down in levels instead of up) is another. For example when you lose your last base in Warcraft the game ends and you can start a new game. They don't make you keep playing with no units. In D&D you keep the same characters. However after a certain amount of time it should in a sense, refresh. After a certain number of sessions any mistakes made in the past shouldn't count against you. Yes he is using house rules. You get XP not for surviving the encounter but starting an encounter that is overcome. So his character would level while he was dead and then drop down. At least that is how it was in 3.0, I haven't checked lately since I don't use XP when I DM.
Gryllmyre 03-30-04, 04:43 PM	I once went through a dungeon with my two main characters and 5 henchmen. The first three in the party had stepped on a stair trap and my two characters plummeted into a fire pit, but the henchman hung on. so, I lost my two mains. It was wierd the way it happened. We were all making dex checks on the way down. #1 succeeds, #2 succeeds, #3 fails, bumps into #2. #2 fails, bumps into #1. #1 succeeds, #2 succeeds, #3 fails, bumps into #2, #2 has total success but #3 slides UNDER him (as #2 hinged on his arms pressing on the walls and his legs went up), hits #1, and down they go. I was very unhappy. There's something about what's called "fair opportunity", and you hope that DnD offers it the same way so many other things offer it. Sometimes it just doesn't happen that way, and you can't help but wonder why. Then you make sure to play with DMs that won't kill you. Good luck. They will at least mess with you. It's rare to find what you're really looking for in an RPG group.
reanjr 03-30-04, 05:51 PM	Being a DM for the last 11 years and a player for the last 2 or 3, I assure you killing players is a very important part of a good campaign. If there is no danger then there should be no reward. I will not generally allow a player to die in a haphazard one-bad-roll situation as it cheapens the character's death. But a character who dies in a memorable way is pushing the game forward.
Father Dale 03-30-04, 06:14 PM	We always played that if a character died during an encounter, he got his share of experience from that encounter, if any, before applying level loss. i.e. your 8 exp points from level 8. You get into an encounter and die, but your party survives and gets experience from the encounter. Lets say everyone gets 200 exp. That would be enough to make you level 8. Thus if raised by a raise dead spell, your new level would be 7 and you would have experience halfway between 7 and 8. Is that just a house rule or is that a book rule? I don't know. It just makes sense I think. Kind of like interest on a loan? The interest (exp) still accrues, even if you don't get it till the end of the month (resting and levelling up), but if the loan gets cashed out early (character dies), you still get that interest (exp) when the loan is cashed out (character dies). Also, did the party get experience divided as if you were there (which you were) or as if you weren't (which gives them a bonus because of your death)? And if experience was divided as if you were there, what happened to your share? Regardless, it prevents situations like yours from arising, which do seem rather absurd. It could be even worse. Imagine that you are 8 exp from levelling to lvl 8 after resting. The next day, you go through a bunch of encounters and actually get enough experience to level to 10! (just over 2 lvls worht of exp--it happens sometimes) But before you can rest you die! So then everyone else is lvl 10 and you are back down to lvl 6! And really, it just makes it harder on everyone because you would be so far behind them in levels. And it will make things really hard on the DM having to provide for your comparative weakness.
sembrin1 03-30-04, 06:41 PM	Nah, I feel your pain. I used to play under a GM who thought you should only lvl every 10 sessions or something (he gave us BAD exp rewards, regardless of what we did) and thought the only challenge worth gaining exp for was when someone died. He was not our fav GM and didn't last long... Our current GM is much better. If we end up in a situation like you being THAT close to lvling, he'd toss out the 8 xp as roleplaying xp or something.
Seeker95 03-30-04, 07:12 PM	Originally posted by Father Dale We always played that if a character died during an encounter, he got his share of experience from that encounter, if any, before applying level loss. Is that just a house rule or is that a book rule?It is a houserule. 3.5 DMG, Page 41: DEATH AND EXPERIENCE POINTS If a character takes part in an encounter, even if she dies during the encounter, that character gets a share of the experience points. If a character dies and is raised, the awarded experience points are granted to her after she comes back from the dead (and after she loses the level from death, if appropriate).Regardless, it prevents situations like yours from arising, which do seem rather absurd.Which is why I do not use experience points at all. It prevents whining from players who count each and every experience point and complain if they are 8 points from the next level. When I am ready for the party to be a level higher because of the next phase of my campaign, I increase the level.
Wulfgar 03-31-04, 02:15 PM	Originally posted by reanjr Being a DM for the last 11 years and a player for the last 2 or 3, I assure you killing players is a very important part of a good campaign. Damn straight. My problem is that the neighbors are getting suspicious of all the headstones in my backyard...I can't keep saying "...It's goldfish, really..."
Seeker95 03-31-04, 04:29 PM	Originally posted by Wulfgar My problem is that the neighbors are getting suspicious of all the headstones in my backyard...I can't keep saying "...It's goldfish, really..." Silly man. You're supposed to use your neighbor's back yard!
Ringmereth 03-31-04, 05:18 PM	No, I don't think you're being a poor looser. I have no arguement with the fact that character death is an important part of the campaign, and that players should be able to deal with it. However, when I DM, if characters are within within 1-2 percent of the XP they need to level, then I'll give them a bit of bonus XP to push them up a level. I would be even more leinent if I was planning an encounter with a CR 5 higher than the party's average level. Unless the characters were INCREDIBLY stupid (I didn't read the spoilers, BTW), they should never have fought a CR12 encounter. An encounter 3 levels or more higher than the PCs level should only be pivotal to the campaign, or the result of extremely horrible PC decisions. Being a spectator or deadweight in the party isn't fun. In the game I play, at one point we had some PCs at 6th level, and some at 9th. The high-level PCs (my wizard and a ranger) were doing the majority of the work, while a 6th level druid was absolutely useless. Since then we've split into two groups, because such big variations in level really ruins a lot of fun in the group. The low level characters are bored because they can't do anything, and the high level characters are mad that they have to split XP and loot with the low-level PCs who aren't helping them. So... I think that you should either return as if you had leveled (and if you killed monsters in the CR12 encounter, than you should have enough XP anyway), or be able to roll up a new character the same level as everyone else. If you're forced to come in low level, the game will become less fun for everyone in your group. Also, I'd talk to your DM about scaling encounters and bending rules for the general good of the group. If he insists on playing exactly by the rules, you might want to discuss it with the other players and consider having someone else DM.