An idea for high levels. [Archive] - Wizards Community

An idea for high levels. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JaniceWilson
12-17-07, 08:48 AM I've posted this in a couple other places in the past, but I figure I'll get the consensus from the crowd here as well.

My plan is simply to make high level characters more capable of the things performed in the myths that D&D was based on. To start with, I would rework to the concept of hitpoints, only in fluff though. Rather than it being what I consider a feeble attempt at realism (the idea that HP incorporates dodging and ducking and all that stuff) it would just be that high level characters really are that durable (I got hit with a ballista, it hurt but I'll live). I was also thinking, at 10th, 15th, and 20th granting the Prodigy quality (DMG 2) with a slight modification: no level adjustment and when you apply it to strength it counts your score as 8 higher for the purposes of carrying/lifting, etc (this is put in because 1. I don't think the capacity to lift things is all that game shattering, and 2. feats of strength are very common in myths). Finally, at 20th level all characters get a divine rank of 0 and I use the divine rank system instead of the epic level advancement rules (with the modification that any stat you choose can be used to deal with salient divine abilities, this is to prevent charisma from becoming the only stat worth picking at those levels). Balance issues aside, what do you all think?

Edit: I post this here because I don't know where else to put this.
JaniceWilson
12-19-07, 06:46 AM No one has anything to say?
goawayugh
12-19-07, 07:52 AM Divine ranks (even 0) are INSANELY powerful. I had Divine Rank 0 as a reward for a campaign of mine ending at 37-39th level.

If you are planning on implementing any of the above, I'd wait until epic. Epic characters ARE the things of legend.

I'm not sure how other DMs deal with this, but one thing that I constantly remind my players (IC and OOC) is that there is ALWAYS someone more powerful than you out there. ALWAYS. The PC's will never be the most powerful mortals in the multiverse.
CryoSilver
12-19-07, 05:07 PM Sometimes, true, but not always. 20th leve PCs in Eberron might be the most powerful mortals in existence, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Ashlord
12-20-07, 02:34 AM Well, as the DM of my group, the first campaign I'm working on (and probably the ONLY major campaign) is that, after a turn of events, the PCs find that Tharizdun (the deity that wants to destroy existence) is mobilizing his forces and you have to get champions for each major god so you can fight and kill Tharizdun.

Yes. In my FIRST campaign, the PCs are supposed to kill a god. Yes, I am crazy. :)

-----------

AS for your ideas, divine ranks are GRANTED, not earned. Some deity has to like the character and offer them godhood. To become a greater deity, you have to have gotten not only more power (which any character can and will do), BUT you must have a reputation among mortals and have worshipers. So you might have to set them to specific tasks.
BlaineTog
12-20-07, 03:31 AM Divine ranks (even 0) are INSANELY powerful. I had Divine Rank 0 as a reward for a campaign of mine ending at 37-39th level.

If you are planning on implementing any of the above, I'd wait until epic. Epic characters ARE the things of legend.

I'm not sure how other DMs deal with this, but one thing that I constantly remind my players (IC and OOC) is that there is ALWAYS someone more powerful than you out there. ALWAYS. The PC's will never be the most powerful mortals in the multiverse.This would depend largely on the campaign setting. In Faerun, yes. In Greyhawk, probably. As CryoSilver pointed out, not at all the case in Ebberon.

@ JaniceWilson,

I don't even think you need to change HP to do that. As written, it potentially incorporates those things, but it doesn't have to. For a wizard, it might be various small wards he sets up every morning which get broken apart as attacks slam into them; for a Cleric, it might be the divine light of his god deflecting the blows. For a Bard, it might be sheer luck. For a warrior, maybe he just takes it on the chin and doesn't care.

I'd be careful trying to make D&D more "mythic," as that's not really what it's trying to do, and you might have to change more than you leave to make it do that.
JaniceWilson
12-20-07, 04:19 AM I'd be careful trying to make D&D more "mythic," as that's not really what it's trying to do, and you might have to change more than you leave to make it do that.I'm not exactly looking to recreate myths precisely, just looking to make a few of those things you see in them just a touch more within the grasp of the players. As to HP, not really itching to change mechanics as I said. More just seeking to put a concrete and believable (within the context of a fantasy world where heroes are essentially working towards godhood) explanation on how HP works. I noticed with the concept of HP being based on luck and endurance and such that while it worked for basic combat it tended to break down when things we know a human being can't survive without some serious form of injury come up (IE falling off a skyscraper equivalent or getting crushed by a giant boulder).AS for your ideas, divine ranks are GRANTED, not earned. Some deity has to like the character and offer them godhood. To become a greater deity, you have to have gotten not only more power (which any character can and will do), BUT you must have a reputation among mortals and have worshipers. So you might have to set them to specific tasks.Maybe in your world. But in my world the beings that were born deities are basically glorified bureaucrats that are at the top of a chain of outsiders, elementals, and spirits that govern various aspects of the universe. Ever other "deity" (the ones the players will eventually become) are essentially potential heroes for the various eternal wars that are so common to outsiders.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JaniceWilson 12-17-07, 08:48 AM	I've posted this in a couple other places in the past, but I figure I'll get the consensus from the crowd here as well. My plan is simply to make high level characters more capable of the things performed in the myths that D&D was based on. To start with, I would rework to the concept of hitpoints, only in fluff though. Rather than it being what I consider a feeble attempt at realism (the idea that HP incorporates dodging and ducking and all that stuff) it would just be that high level characters really are that durable (I got hit with a ballista, it hurt but I'll live). I was also thinking, at 10th, 15th, and 20th granting the Prodigy quality (DMG 2) with a slight modification: no level adjustment and when you apply it to strength it counts your score as 8 higher for the purposes of carrying/lifting, etc (this is put in because 1. I don't think the capacity to lift things is all that game shattering, and 2. feats of strength are very common in myths). Finally, at 20th level all characters get a divine rank of 0 and I use the divine rank system instead of the epic level advancement rules (with the modification that any stat you choose can be used to deal with salient divine abilities, this is to prevent charisma from becoming the only stat worth picking at those levels). Balance issues aside, what do you all think? Edit: I post this here because I don't know where else to put this.
JaniceWilson 12-19-07, 06:46 AM	No one has anything to say?
goawayugh 12-19-07, 07:52 AM	Divine ranks (even 0) are INSANELY powerful. I had Divine Rank 0 as a reward for a campaign of mine ending at 37-39th level. If you are planning on implementing any of the above, I'd wait until epic. Epic characters ARE the things of legend. I'm not sure how other DMs deal with this, but one thing that I constantly remind my players (IC and OOC) is that there is ALWAYS someone more powerful than you out there. ALWAYS. The PC's will never be the most powerful mortals in the multiverse.
CryoSilver 12-19-07, 05:07 PM	Sometimes, true, but not always. 20th leve PCs in Eberron might be the most powerful mortals in existence, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Ashlord 12-20-07, 02:34 AM	Well, as the DM of my group, the first campaign I'm working on (and probably the ONLY major campaign) is that, after a turn of events, the PCs find that Tharizdun (the deity that wants to destroy existence) is mobilizing his forces and you have to get champions for each major god so you can fight and kill Tharizdun. Yes. In my FIRST campaign, the PCs are supposed to kill a god. Yes, I am crazy. :) ----------- AS for your ideas, divine ranks are GRANTED, not earned. Some deity has to like the character and offer them godhood. To become a greater deity, you have to have gotten not only more power (which any character can and will do), BUT you must have a reputation among mortals and have worshipers. So you might have to set them to specific tasks.
BlaineTog 12-20-07, 03:31 AM	Divine ranks (even 0) are INSANELY powerful. I had Divine Rank 0 as a reward for a campaign of mine ending at 37-39th level. If you are planning on implementing any of the above, I'd wait until epic. Epic characters ARE the things of legend. I'm not sure how other DMs deal with this, but one thing that I constantly remind my players (IC and OOC) is that there is ALWAYS someone more powerful than you out there. ALWAYS. The PC's will never be the most powerful mortals in the multiverse.This would depend largely on the campaign setting. In Faerun, yes. In Greyhawk, probably. As CryoSilver pointed out, not at all the case in Ebberon. @ JaniceWilson, I don't even think you need to change HP to do that. As written, it potentially incorporates those things, but it doesn't have to. For a wizard, it might be various small wards he sets up every morning which get broken apart as attacks slam into them; for a Cleric, it might be the divine light of his god deflecting the blows. For a Bard, it might be sheer luck. For a warrior, maybe he just takes it on the chin and doesn't care. I'd be careful trying to make D&D more "mythic," as that's not really what it's trying to do, and you might have to change more than you leave to make it do that.
JaniceWilson 12-20-07, 04:19 AM	I'd be careful trying to make D&D more "mythic," as that's not really what it's trying to do, and you might have to change more than you leave to make it do that.I'm not exactly looking to recreate myths precisely, just looking to make a few of those things you see in them just a touch more within the grasp of the players. As to HP, not really itching to change mechanics as I said. More just seeking to put a concrete and believable (within the context of a fantasy world where heroes are essentially working towards godhood) explanation on how HP works. I noticed with the concept of HP being based on luck and endurance and such that while it worked for basic combat it tended to break down when things we know a human being can't survive without some serious form of injury come up (IE falling off a skyscraper equivalent or getting crushed by a giant boulder).AS for your ideas, divine ranks are GRANTED, not earned. Some deity has to like the character and offer them godhood. To become a greater deity, you have to have gotten not only more power (which any character can and will do), BUT you must have a reputation among mortals and have worshipers. So you might have to set them to specific tasks.Maybe in your world. But in my world the beings that were born deities are basically glorified bureaucrats that are at the top of a chain of outsiders, elementals, and spirits that govern various aspects of the universe. Ever other "deity" (the ones the players will eventually become) are essentially potential heroes for the various eternal wars that are so common to outsiders.