Ancestral Relic errata? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ancestral Relic errata? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Corona_Radix
06-29-04, 05:40 PM Short, simple, and directly to the point. Ancestral Relic (pg. 39) has a chart of maximum value for an ancestral weapon by character level. The maximum value listed is 380,000 gp, but a +10 weapon is only valued at 200,000 gp. Even with the most expensive materials, a weapon can only go up as high as 220,000 gp or so - which is the limit at 17th level. Does this mean an ancestral weapon can gain special abilities and enhancement bonus in excess of +10 (making it an epic weapon), or is their some severe miscalculation going on? Another option is that a character could make his ancestral weapon intelligent at higher levels, but this seems more unbalanced than having an epic weapon.
Any thoughts?
UndeadPenguin
07-01-04, 11:56 PM :rant: i dont know but it does seem pretty steep.
the Horc
07-02-04, 12:02 AM I think it's to take into account for double weapons
Nelyo
07-02-04, 03:33 PM The other thing you're overlooking is the fact that an Ancestral Relic doesn't have to be a weapon. For example, one of my character's had an ancestral relic that was a suit of armor. By level 20 it was a +5 Heavy Fortification armor with greater resistance to everything but sonic damage built in. An ancestral relic could even be a staff/wand/ring/wondrous item, in which case the high cap could be taking into account adding extra powers (at 150% base price).
Thegreatmonkey
07-02-04, 04:14 PM in fact it can be any item. I have a character that has an ancestral relic that's an amulet. if you look at it in the light of a wonderous item you can put all kinds of fun stuff on it.
Dragan_Timeripper
07-02-04, 04:30 PM Hello all,

This is slightly on target, but could you enhance your Ancestral Relic differenly and using home-based rules? For instance, could I start with a Circlet of Persuasion, then later pay the difference to change it into a Headband of Intellect +6, then later pay to change it into a Headband of Perfect Excellence? Does that correspond to the letter and the spirit of the item, or not?

Thanks in advance for any CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism. Happy gaming, all.
Lysen_Gaiden
07-05-04, 02:25 PM And also, dont forget, you can also make your relic intelligent too.
Ertai Planeswalker
07-09-04, 03:11 AM Ancestral Relic is the best feat for a sorcerer there is. Every spell that you want to know, but do not use that often, is simply placed in your personal spell tattoo-relic.

So you'll end up with a ot of spells usable x times per day, so you have enough spells known.
Solais
07-22-04, 07:23 AM The hell do you all understand the info in the book? I can't so can someone explain it to me in laymens terms. Use this for an example. I'm a 3rd lvl Cleric, CG, with a greatsword I want as my ancestral weapon. Cheers.
Count Arioch the 28th
07-22-04, 09:25 AM Originally posted by Dragan_Timeripper
Hello all,

This is slightly on target, but could you enhance your Ancestral Relic differenly and using home-based rules? For instance, could I start with a Circlet of Persuasion, then later pay the difference to change it into a Headband of Intellect +6, then later pay to change it into a Headband of Perfect Excellence? Does that correspond to the letter and the spirit of the item, or not?

Thanks in advance for any CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism. Happy gaming, all.

Well, I'm not sure if the item can be magical or not beforehand, so I won't go there.

I will say this: Changing the item goes against it's spirit, I think. You can add on all you want to the item, but not take away. (I might be wrong, if there are rules for taking stuff away, then go ahead. Really, it wouldn't be unbalancing, that's GP you just wasted anyway, and I see no problems allowing it.)
lvnlife
08-09-04, 04:38 PM What I read is that the item is a non-magical item persay...and you awaken magical properties that are in the item laying dormant.

Changing those properties after you have awakened them would change the item. Thus no longer your relic operating under this feat.

Yes it could get powerful...but if you take into account the availabilty of spells, spell components...and the cost for these, and the cost to have a spellcaster cast it into the item( how much gps would you want for say 2,000 hard won xps into an item?) This would account for the high gold piece value allowed.

I don't think it gives us players license to run away with what this item can do...it was meant for you to have a signiture item that makes that character different than others, or to have a type of weapon or armor that isn't always given out in treasure that you as a player character.
Kalmakka
08-11-04, 04:34 PM Hmm.. 380 000 gp would give you a mantle of spell resistance 50. That is effectively spell immunity against all but really epic spellcaster. How is that for a signature item?
lvnlife
08-12-04, 01:11 AM Hmm.. 380 000 gp would give you a mantle of spell resistance 50. That is effectively spell immunity against all but really epic spellcaster. How is that for a signature item?

Could never happen under the rules set forth...most can be is SR49...and then you'd be praying and fasting for 90 days at 20th level..can you really fast for 90 days and still be praying?
42up
08-12-04, 01:15 AM my annointed knights ancestral greatsword was able to cast divine favor and quickened truestrike a couple of times a day...as well as a heal. Of course is it was also a +5 holy speed weapon.
lvnlife
08-12-04, 01:30 AM The hell do you all understand the info in the book? I can't so can someone explain it to me in laymens terms. Use this for an example. I'm a 3rd lvl Cleric, CG, with a greatsword I want as my ancestral weapon. Cheers.

First you have to be fourth level to even complete the task. Next your Greatsword would have to be masterwork..so that would be a base cost of a greatsword is 50 gps. to make it Masterwork you add 300 gp. at a total of 350 gps.(PLAYERS 3.0 pg. 98 and 114) now to make it a +1 weapon you would need another 2,000 gps. (pg. 184 DMs guide 3.0) Making it worth 2,300 GPS. and that would also require praying and fasting for a total of 2 days....i.e. 1 day for each 1,000 gps sacrificed(spent) on the item (BoED pg. 115)
For each plus after that you look up the price in the DMG for that, and subtract the price it already is..and the difference is what you need to invest in the item. The total cost can't go over your Maximum gold piece value for that level.

Does that make it laymen enough for you? Hope that helped:)
lvnlife
08-12-04, 01:58 AM Originally posted by 42up
my annointed knights ancestral greatsword was able to cast divine favor and quickened truestrike a couple of times a day...as well as a heal. Of course is it was also a +5 holy speed weapon.

hey buddy my calcuations of the cost to this relic of yours is 410,350GPS. Wouldn't be allowed in my dungeon...If your a DM roleplay the relic out if you can..if you can't sit down with the player to figure out prices...casue some of these people are way off. not to mention quicken truestike twice is 180,000 gps according to the formula given in the DMG and would require too many days of fasting and prayer..remember 1 day for every 1,000 gps..that makes `180 days of fasting...can you live with that folks.
lvnlife
08-12-04, 02:05 AM Originally posted by lvnlife
I don't think it gives us players license to run away with what this item can do

That's why they put the prayer and FASTING into it...roleplaying isn't getting the best weapon or armor that money can buy..or create..it's about making a character stand out..and become an enity...a hero that uses wit, intelligence, and luck to get through the dungeon...try it sometime..make a weak character..and play it..it makes it so fun when you have to overcome the odds rather than making it impossible for a monster to hit you. Your DM will appreciate it.
Nelyo
08-12-04, 11:22 AM The Ancestral Relic doesn't require that you fast for the entire time you are improving it, only for the 8 hours a day you are meditating. I don't know about you, but I can make it 8 hours without eating every day for several days.

Yes it could get powerful...but if you take into account the availabilty of spells, spell components...and the cost for these, and the cost to have a spellcaster cast it into the item( how much gps would you want for say 2,000 hard won xps into an item?) This would account for the high gold piece value allowed.

Ancestral Relics do not require this, all they require is the necessary gold pieces/goods be sacrificed, you don't have to have a spellcaster on hand to enchant it, that would defeat the purpose of the feat.
lvnlife
08-12-04, 05:23 PM Ancestral Relics do not require this, all they require is the necessary gold pieces/goods be sacrificed, you don't have to have a spellcaster on hand to enchant it, that would defeat the purpose of the feat.

True, but the item at one time was enchated by a spellcaster which denotes the actual price of the magic used at the time of it's original creation...the feat wakes up the magical powers within.

I stand corrected on the former issue...it is just eight hours a day of meditaion and prayer without stopping to eat or sleep.

It's good we have these discussions..it keeps me on my toes;)
Mortepierre
08-17-04, 04:09 PM Originally posted by Nelyo
The Ancestral Relic doesn't require that you fast for the entire time you are improving it, only for the 8 hours a day you are meditating. I don't know about you, but I can make it 8 hours without eating every day for several days.

Not to mention wearing a Ring of Sustenance .. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Corona_Radix 06-29-04, 05:40 PM	Short, simple, and directly to the point. Ancestral Relic (pg. 39) has a chart of maximum value for an ancestral weapon by character level. The maximum value listed is 380,000 gp, but a +10 weapon is only valued at 200,000 gp. Even with the most expensive materials, a weapon can only go up as high as 220,000 gp or so - which is the limit at 17th level. Does this mean an ancestral weapon can gain special abilities and enhancement bonus in excess of +10 (making it an epic weapon), or is their some severe miscalculation going on? Another option is that a character could make his ancestral weapon intelligent at higher levels, but this seems more unbalanced than having an epic weapon. Any thoughts?
UndeadPenguin 07-01-04, 11:56 PM	:rant: i dont know but it does seem pretty steep.
the Horc 07-02-04, 12:02 AM	I think it's to take into account for double weapons
Nelyo 07-02-04, 03:33 PM	The other thing you're overlooking is the fact that an Ancestral Relic doesn't have to be a weapon. For example, one of my character's had an ancestral relic that was a suit of armor. By level 20 it was a +5 Heavy Fortification armor with greater resistance to everything but sonic damage built in. An ancestral relic could even be a staff/wand/ring/wondrous item, in which case the high cap could be taking into account adding extra powers (at 150% base price).
Thegreatmonkey 07-02-04, 04:14 PM	in fact it can be any item. I have a character that has an ancestral relic that's an amulet. if you look at it in the light of a wonderous item you can put all kinds of fun stuff on it.
Dragan_Timeripper 07-02-04, 04:30 PM	Hello all, This is slightly on target, but could you enhance your Ancestral Relic differenly and using home-based rules? For instance, could I start with a Circlet of Persuasion, then later pay the difference to change it into a Headband of Intellect +6, then later pay to change it into a Headband of Perfect Excellence? Does that correspond to the letter and the spirit of the item, or not? Thanks in advance for any CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism. Happy gaming, all.
Lysen_Gaiden 07-05-04, 02:25 PM	And also, dont forget, you can also make your relic intelligent too.
Ertai Planeswalker 07-09-04, 03:11 AM	Ancestral Relic is the best feat for a sorcerer there is. Every spell that you want to know, but do not use that often, is simply placed in your personal spell tattoo-relic. So you'll end up with a ot of spells usable x times per day, so you have enough spells known.
Solais 07-22-04, 07:23 AM	The hell do you all understand the info in the book? I can't so can someone explain it to me in laymens terms. Use this for an example. I'm a 3rd lvl Cleric, CG, with a greatsword I want as my ancestral weapon. Cheers.
Count Arioch the 28th 07-22-04, 09:25 AM	Originally posted by Dragan_Timeripper Hello all, This is slightly on target, but could you enhance your Ancestral Relic differenly and using home-based rules? For instance, could I start with a Circlet of Persuasion, then later pay the difference to change it into a Headband of Intellect +6, then later pay to change it into a Headband of Perfect Excellence? Does that correspond to the letter and the spirit of the item, or not? Thanks in advance for any CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism. Happy gaming, all. Well, I'm not sure if the item can be magical or not beforehand, so I won't go there. I will say this: Changing the item goes against it's spirit, I think. You can add on all you want to the item, but not take away. (I might be wrong, if there are rules for taking stuff away, then go ahead. Really, it wouldn't be unbalancing, that's GP you just wasted anyway, and I see no problems allowing it.)
lvnlife 08-09-04, 04:38 PM	What I read is that the item is a non-magical item persay...and you awaken magical properties that are in the item laying dormant. Changing those properties after you have awakened them would change the item. Thus no longer your relic operating under this feat. Yes it could get powerful...but if you take into account the availabilty of spells, spell components...and the cost for these, and the cost to have a spellcaster cast it into the item( how much gps would you want for say 2,000 hard won xps into an item?) This would account for the high gold piece value allowed. I don't think it gives us players license to run away with what this item can do...it was meant for you to have a signiture item that makes that character different than others, or to have a type of weapon or armor that isn't always given out in treasure that you as a player character.
Kalmakka 08-11-04, 04:34 PM	Hmm.. 380 000 gp would give you a mantle of spell resistance 50. That is effectively spell immunity against all but really epic spellcaster. How is that for a signature item?
lvnlife 08-12-04, 01:11 AM	Hmm.. 380 000 gp would give you a mantle of spell resistance 50. That is effectively spell immunity against all but really epic spellcaster. How is that for a signature item? Could never happen under the rules set forth...most can be is SR49...and then you'd be praying and fasting for 90 days at 20th level..can you really fast for 90 days and still be praying?
42up 08-12-04, 01:15 AM	my annointed knights ancestral greatsword was able to cast divine favor and quickened truestrike a couple of times a day...as well as a heal. Of course is it was also a +5 holy speed weapon.
lvnlife 08-12-04, 01:30 AM	The hell do you all understand the info in the book? I can't so can someone explain it to me in laymens terms. Use this for an example. I'm a 3rd lvl Cleric, CG, with a greatsword I want as my ancestral weapon. Cheers. First you have to be fourth level to even complete the task. Next your Greatsword would have to be masterwork..so that would be a base cost of a greatsword is 50 gps. to make it Masterwork you add 300 gp. at a total of 350 gps.(PLAYERS 3.0 pg. 98 and 114) now to make it a +1 weapon you would need another 2,000 gps. (pg. 184 DMs guide 3.0) Making it worth 2,300 GPS. and that would also require praying and fasting for a total of 2 days....i.e. 1 day for each 1,000 gps sacrificed(spent) on the item (BoED pg. 115) For each plus after that you look up the price in the DMG for that, and subtract the price it already is..and the difference is what you need to invest in the item. The total cost can't go over your Maximum gold piece value for that level. Does that make it laymen enough for you? Hope that helped:)
lvnlife 08-12-04, 01:58 AM	Originally posted by 42up my annointed knights ancestral greatsword was able to cast divine favor and quickened truestrike a couple of times a day...as well as a heal. Of course is it was also a +5 holy speed weapon. hey buddy my calcuations of the cost to this relic of yours is 410,350GPS. Wouldn't be allowed in my dungeon...If your a DM roleplay the relic out if you can..if you can't sit down with the player to figure out prices...casue some of these people are way off. not to mention quicken truestike twice is 180,000 gps according to the formula given in the DMG and would require too many days of fasting and prayer..remember 1 day for every 1,000 gps..that makes `180 days of fasting...can you live with that folks.
lvnlife 08-12-04, 02:05 AM	Originally posted by lvnlife I don't think it gives us players license to run away with what this item can do That's why they put the prayer and FASTING into it...roleplaying isn't getting the best weapon or armor that money can buy..or create..it's about making a character stand out..and become an enity...a hero that uses wit, intelligence, and luck to get through the dungeon...try it sometime..make a weak character..and play it..it makes it so fun when you have to overcome the odds rather than making it impossible for a monster to hit you. Your DM will appreciate it.
Nelyo 08-12-04, 11:22 AM	The Ancestral Relic doesn't require that you fast for the entire time you are improving it, only for the 8 hours a day you are meditating. I don't know about you, but I can make it 8 hours without eating every day for several days. Yes it could get powerful...but if you take into account the availabilty of spells, spell components...and the cost for these, and the cost to have a spellcaster cast it into the item( how much gps would you want for say 2,000 hard won xps into an item?) This would account for the high gold piece value allowed. Ancestral Relics do not require this, all they require is the necessary gold pieces/goods be sacrificed, you don't have to have a spellcaster on hand to enchant it, that would defeat the purpose of the feat.
lvnlife 08-12-04, 05:23 PM	Ancestral Relics do not require this, all they require is the necessary gold pieces/goods be sacrificed, you don't have to have a spellcaster on hand to enchant it, that would defeat the purpose of the feat. True, but the item at one time was enchated by a spellcaster which denotes the actual price of the magic used at the time of it's original creation...the feat wakes up the magical powers within. I stand corrected on the former issue...it is just eight hours a day of meditaion and prayer without stopping to eat or sleep. It's good we have these discussions..it keeps me on my toes;)
Mortepierre 08-17-04, 04:09 PM	Originally posted by Nelyo The Ancestral Relic doesn't require that you fast for the entire time you are improving it, only for the 8 hours a day you are meditating. I don't know about you, but I can make it 8 hours without eating every day for several days. Not to mention wearing a Ring of Sustenance .. :D