"If you say itz cool man. Then it's gotta be".... [Archive] - Wizards Community

"If you say itz cool man. Then it's gotta be".... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seraphelle
08-26-07, 06:20 PM I don't know about anyone else but lackies kinda suck.
I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS.
And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things.
Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot!
Jughead- Ya man, it rules!
Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!!
:banghead:
Yak of Darkness
08-26-07, 06:23 PM Cool. I know I've learned more about D&D now. :thumbsup:
Artifact
08-26-07, 06:29 PM I don't know about anyone else but lackies kinda suck.
I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS.
And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things.
Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot!
Jughead- Ya man, it rules!
Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!!
:banghead:

Although undeniably hot, Brittany Spears and D&D should never be mentioned in the same sentence. Because its needlessly confusing on so many levels. Paris Hilton, on the other hand . . . I mean, she's even featured on the cover of Complete Scoundrel.

Whoops! . . . That's Gimble. Sorry!

:P
Zousha_Omenohu
08-26-07, 06:33 PM I don't think Britney Spears is hot at all. Heck, she's barely room temperature in my opinion! And I fail to see what point this thread has.
Seraphelle
08-26-07, 06:36 PM I don't think Britney Spears is hot at all. Heck, she's barely room temperature in my opinion! And I fail to see what point this thread has.

the POINT is the fact that lackies suck. because they agree wih anything the "boss" says.
fatal error
08-26-07, 06:47 PM Seriously, you made an account and waited 8 months to troll with it? Given that this has nothing to do with D&D, in game or out of game, that I can see, it is obviously trolling.

Yes, people that only follow other people's opinions are a scourge of intelligent humanity. But that has nothing to do with D&D.
Seraphelle
08-26-07, 06:54 PM Yes, people that only follow other people's opinions are a scourge of intelligent humanity. But that has nothing to do with D&D.

Sorry. But it kinda does. A character is made. I understand that not everyone is a leader. Some follow. But instead of just following, Archie essentially plays the chacter without acctually playing. i don't know if that applies but it semi- does. It doesn't seem fair. Jughead knows what he's doing. But he does everything Archie tells him to in- game.
Zousha_Omenohu
08-26-07, 07:06 PM Well, the thing about lackeys is that they have to agree with you. That's what you're paying them for. If they disagree with you too much, then they're pretty much asking to be fired if you're a PC, or burned to a crisp and eaten if you're a BBEG.
bonethug0108
08-26-07, 07:10 PM Lackey: Beastman
Leader: Skeletor

That is the perfect relationship example of what a leader/lackey relationship should be.

I'm not sure why I'm posting in this thread because I'm not sure what it really has to do with d&d, but I can't miss a chance to make a he-man reference.:)
Artifact
08-26-07, 07:18 PM I rolled and totaled my car this morning. My heads so rattled, I really just need to take my mind off of things for a few minutes. So, yeah, this thread makes about as much sense as anything else right now; I'll take it ;).
Fireclave
08-26-07, 07:18 PM Zousha_Omenohu hit the nail on the head. If you don't like lackeys that agree with you no matter what, hire some advisers: lackies who you pay to give you an unbiased opinion. You have complete control over who you hire, so just don't hire yes-men.
Zousha_Omenohu
08-26-07, 07:19 PM Judging by the OP, I'd say it's a complaint that cohorts, followers and hirelings aren't roleplayed too much by DMs so the characters in question are always agreeing with what their boss tells them to do. The thing to remember is that that attitude is part and parcel with being the toady of a more powerful being than yourself throughout literature and popular culture. Any bad guy worth his salt has goons to keep the heroes busy while he perfects his evil schemes for world domination. And besides, lackeys who agree with you all the time aren't necessarily boring, such as Deekin in Neverwinter Nights. He follows you to the bitter end no matter how you treat him or how much dangers you encounter, and he manages to be a very interesting figure on his own.
Seraphelle
08-26-07, 10:30 PM Well, the thing about lackeys is that they have to agree with you. That's what you're paying them for. If they disagree with you too much, then they're pretty much asking to be fired if you're a PC, or burned to a crisp and eaten if you're a BBEG.

i guess really what i mean is this. not the character /character relationship nessesarily. most of the time yes, but not all. but the player/player relationship. not in-game. sorry i didn't clarify guys. but yes, good point on that ZO.
UltimateReality
08-27-07, 12:39 AM i guess really what i mean is this. not the character /character relationship nessesarily. most of the time yes, but not all. but the player/player relationship. not in-game. sorry i didn't clarify guys. but yes, good point on that ZO.Oh, are you talking about the sort of "alpha wolf" mentality that frequently occurs in a "gaming pack"? The kind of thing where one guy (or gal) says stuff and the rest of the party just goes along because that person is the "party leader" in RL? That's a whole breed of its own...
Fireclave
08-27-07, 12:45 AM i guess really what i mean is this. not the character /character relationship nessesarily. most of the time yes, but not all. but the player/player relationship. not in-game. sorry i didn't clarify guys. but yes, good point on that ZO.
Then this problem doesn't seem have anything to do with a boss-lackey relationship at all. In most parties, even ones with a character that acts as the leader, each members typically has the same "rank" as every other PC in the party.

Your problem seems to be that your fellow players are playing their characters very passively and are opting to just go with the flow of whoever decides to take the lead. There may be many reasons for this. Your party mates may not be comfortable with role playing their characters, they might have a hard time coming up with interesting character backgrounds and motivations, your DM's campaign may be focused more or killing and looting than plot development, etc and so on.

Try talking with your fellow players and convince them to have their characters take charge and express their opinions more often. Talk to the DM and ask him/her to try creating scenarios where your other parties can shine. If the party is constantly looking to you for answers and guidance, try redirecting the spotlight on someone who is just as, or better suited for the task at hand.
arderkrag
08-27-07, 12:49 AM I rolled and totaled my car this morning. My heads so rattled, I really just need to take my mind off of things for a few minutes. So, yeah, this thread makes about as much sense as anything else right now; I'll take it ;).

Really? I woke up this morning, got myself a gun.
Zousha_Omenohu
08-27-07, 12:57 AM Then this problem doesn't seem have anything to do with a boss-lackey relationship at all. In most parties, even ones with a character that acts as the leader, each members typically has the same "rank" as every other PC in the party.

Your problem seems to be that your fellow players are playing their characters very passively and are opting to just go with the flow of whoever decides to take the lead. There may be many reasons for this. Your party mates may not be comfortable with role playing their characters, they might have a hard time coming up with interesting character backgrounds and motivations, your DM's campaign may be focused more or killing and looting than plot development, etc and so on.

Another possible reason is that this one player is never appointed the leader but automatically becomes the leader because he/she/it has the best ideas. If it's because the party relies on this person for tactics, then it's a whole other story.
Escef
08-27-07, 06:01 AM I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS.
And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things.
Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot!
Jughead- Ya man, it rules!
Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!!
:banghead:

I understand that not everyone is a leader. Some follow. But instead of just following, Archie essentially plays the chacter without acctually playing. i don't know if that applies but it semi- does. It doesn't seem fair. Jughead knows what he's doing. But he does everything Archie tells him to in- game.

Ok, so in other words, you are attracted to Jughead and wish he'd get opinions of his own instead of apeing Archie's. Especially on matters of female attractiveness, as unlike Brittany, you are a brunette of average build who couldn't sing to save your life.

That's great. Next time start a thread about D&D group dynamics instead of starting a thread about your unrequited love for an Archie comic book character and somehow desperately trying to tie it into D&D.

:P
HouseElf
08-27-07, 06:37 AM I don't see how the beastman skeletor relationship is supposed to be the best leader follower relationship.

They have rapped together about gay sex, which while bonding is perhaps inappropriate , skeletor has killed beastman for incompetence once, and in general beastman acts like a long term victim of domestic abuse. Seems to me the worst example of an abuse of power in the workplace.

(I think this is actually a pretty funny thread, not a troll thread.)
Seeker95
08-27-07, 08:49 AM the POINT is the fact that lackies suck. because they agree wih anything the "boss" says.But they are lackeys becasue they agree with everything the boss says.
Yes-men can only say yes to things other men say.
Hate the boss, not the lackey.
Zousha_Omenohu
08-27-07, 08:53 AM Ok, so in other words, you are attracted to Jughead and wish he'd get opinions of his own instead of apeing Archie's. Especially on matters of female attractiveness, as unlike Brittany, you are a brunette of average build who couldn't sing to save your life.

That's great. Next time start a thread about D&D group dynamics instead of starting a thread about your unrequited love for an Archie comic book character and somehow desperately trying to tie it into D&D.

:P

:ahem: The original poster is not what we're discussing here. Leave her alone and contribute something worthwhile.
Mistress_Alexis
08-27-07, 09:03 AM I think they might be complaining about his groups always listening to one players opinion and not thinking on their own, or am I giving them to much credit?
Zousha_Omenohu
08-27-07, 09:13 AM Lackey = Pro-WotC fans that buy anything the company puts out no matter if it is junk. Begs for new editions.

Leader = Those that define their own games. No need to beg for anything since they are creative.

:ahem: This isn't a thread to air your dirty laundry about 4th Edition. That's what the Doomsday thread is for.
_Jayne_Cobb_
08-27-07, 10:33 AM I don't know about anyone else but lackies kinda suck.
I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS.
And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things.
Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot!
Jughead- Ya man, it rules!
Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!!
:banghead:

Can you repeat that in English, please? I don't speak Crazy.
Escef
08-27-07, 10:34 AM :ahem: The original poster is not what we're discussing here. Leave her alone and contribute something worthwhile.

You're no fun anymore. :pbbbtt:
IRememberCecil
08-27-07, 11:06 AM Lackey = Pro-WotC fans that buy anything the company puts out no matter if it is junk. Begs for new editions.

Leader = Those that define their own games. No need to beg for anything since they are creative.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/Pro_test/1180043807790.png
Zousha_Omenohu
08-27-07, 12:21 PM :clap: Beautiful! Just beautiful! I applaud you, Cecil. I couldn't have said it better myself!
Zousha_Omenohu
08-27-07, 12:22 PM You're no fun anymore. :pbbbtt:

You do realize that Eric Idle's going to come after you for stealing his line, dont you?:P
Escef
08-27-07, 12:39 PM You do realize that Eric Idle's going to come after you for stealing his line, dont you?:P

Y'know, I've had the idea of getting my friends together to make a Monty Python parody for years. It would start out with some situation where the man ina suit siting at a desk will starkly contrast with. He will look up from his papers and announce, "And now for something you've probably seen the likes of before."
Zousha_Omenohu
08-27-07, 01:12 PM IT'S...
_Jayne_Cobb_
08-27-07, 01:17 PM IT'S...

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/sheetmusic/libertybellmarch1_2767.gif
Seraphelle
08-27-07, 01:53 PM But they are lackeys becasue they agree with everything the boss says.
Yes-men can only say yes to things other men say.
Hate the boss, not the lackey.

You're absolutely right. Both of them suck. Perhaps I just don't like those kinda players. I believe players should assert their own opinions.
I understand not each one will but they should.
Seraphelle
08-27-07, 01:57 PM Oh, are you talking about the sort of "alpha wolf" mentality that frequently occurs in a "gaming pack"? The kind of thing where one guy (or gal) says stuff and the rest of the party just goes along because that person is the "party leader" in RL? That's a whole breed of its own...

Exactly, but it applies to only two of the players. Plus itz not just applying to DnD. I don't mind having a group leader. I myself am a follower. But I at leat give my own opinion.
The White Sorcerer
08-27-07, 02:10 PM You do realize that Eric Idle's going to come after you for stealing his line, dont you?:P

And throw you under a camel. If he can roll a DC 9 Spot check, that is.
Zousha_Omenohu
08-27-07, 04:41 PM :clap: Cobb, that's got to be the best response I've ever gotten for saying something just to be goofy.

Though in all honesty, I think we should knock it off with the Monty Python jokes, or the WizOs might lock this thread because they think it's silly!

(:D I couldn't resist.)
bonethug0108
08-27-07, 06:59 PM I don't see how the beastman skeletor relationship is supposed to be the best leader follower relationship.

They have rapped together about gay sex, which while bonding is perhaps inappropriate , skeletor has killed beastman for incompetence once, and in general beastman acts like a long term victim of domestic abuse. Seems to me the worst example of an abuse of power in the workplace.

(I think this is actually a pretty funny thread, not a troll thread.)

That's why it was called the leader/LACKEY relationship.

What you described is exactly how the leader and lackey should act.:P

Now if I said leader follower, perhaps teela and the lazy adam?
Hlethvagi
08-28-07, 01:30 AM Hey all, I know the people the OP is talking about, and they suck! Boss or Archie is the DM who is often patting himself on the back about what a cool story or cool adventure he is running. Lackey or Jughead is a player who jumps to make a character that the boss or Archie says is Kewl. Archie always rewards players who make chars that he thinks are kewl, not what a particular player might think is kewl. Jughead always defers to Archie when making a new char. He really doesn't think much about it at all, just ask the DM what's kewl and that's what he makes. The rewards Archie often hands out for being a lackey are, never needing to make a saving throw, always hitting, or always succeeding on skill rolls that he thinks are kewl.

They suck, and I chose not to play with them very much anymore.

Hlethvagi
WizO_Mars
08-28-07, 03:27 AM We're getting a little off topic here folks. Let's get it back on track, please. ;)
HouseElf
08-28-07, 04:17 AM That's why it was called the leader/LACKEY relationship.

What you described is exactly how the leader and lackey should act.:P

(Ignore the advert at the start)
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2665945

Thats one mean DM Player relationship.
bonethug0108
08-28-07, 04:22 AM Thats one mean DM Player relationship.

Was that Bam?:D

Funny, if not a little strange....:P
Lady_Dragon
08-28-07, 04:42 AM In most parties, even ones with a character that acts as the leader, each members typically has the same "rank" as every other PC in the party.

Your problem seems to be that your fellow players are playing their characters very passively and are opting to just go with the flow of whoever decides to take the lead. There may be many reasons for this. Your party mates may not be comfortable with role playing their characters, they might have a hard time coming up with interesting character backgrounds and motivations, your DM's campaign may be focused more or killing and looting than plot development, etc and so on.

Sounds like my group. My husband takes over in nearly any party he is a part of. It's not because he's a better roleplayer, necessarily, but it's because he knows he has an effective character and is confidant of his abilities. The other players, who may be more unsure of themselves, naturally refer to him on every decision they make. I have asked him to tone it down a little, to make sure everyone has a share of the spotlight, but the players will do what they want and if they don't complain, it's not an issue.
Escef
08-28-07, 05:51 AM <snip>

Psst. Linking to that is a violation of the Code of Conduct.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seraphelle 08-26-07, 06:20 PM	I don't know about anyone else but lackies kinda suck. I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS. And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things. Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot! Jughead- Ya man, it rules! Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!! :banghead:
Yak of Darkness 08-26-07, 06:23 PM	Cool. I know I've learned more about D&D now. :thumbsup:
Artifact 08-26-07, 06:29 PM	I don't know about anyone else but lackies kinda suck. I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS. And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things. Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot! Jughead- Ya man, it rules! Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!! :banghead: Although undeniably hot, Brittany Spears and D&D should never be mentioned in the same sentence. Because its needlessly confusing on so many levels. Paris Hilton, on the other hand . . . I mean, she's even featured on the cover of Complete Scoundrel. Whoops! . . . That's Gimble. Sorry! :P
Zousha_Omenohu 08-26-07, 06:33 PM	I don't think Britney Spears is hot at all. Heck, she's barely room temperature in my opinion! And I fail to see what point this thread has.
Seraphelle 08-26-07, 06:36 PM	I don't think Britney Spears is hot at all. Heck, she's barely room temperature in my opinion! And I fail to see what point this thread has. the POINT is the fact that lackies suck. because they agree wih anything the "boss" says.
fatal error 08-26-07, 06:47 PM	Seriously, you made an account and waited 8 months to troll with it? Given that this has nothing to do with D&D, in game or out of game, that I can see, it is obviously trolling. Yes, people that only follow other people's opinions are a scourge of intelligent humanity. But that has nothing to do with D&D.
Seraphelle 08-26-07, 06:54 PM	Yes, people that only follow other people's opinions are a scourge of intelligent humanity. But that has nothing to do with D&D. Sorry. But it kinda does. A character is made. I understand that not everyone is a leader. Some follow. But instead of just following, Archie essentially plays the chacter without acctually playing. i don't know if that applies but it semi- does. It doesn't seem fair. Jughead knows what he's doing. But he does everything Archie tells him to in- game.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-26-07, 07:06 PM	Well, the thing about lackeys is that they have to agree with you. That's what you're paying them for. If they disagree with you too much, then they're pretty much asking to be fired if you're a PC, or burned to a crisp and eaten if you're a BBEG.
bonethug0108 08-26-07, 07:10 PM	Lackey: Beastman Leader: Skeletor That is the perfect relationship example of what a leader/lackey relationship should be. I'm not sure why I'm posting in this thread because I'm not sure what it really has to do with d&d, but I can't miss a chance to make a he-man reference.:)
Artifact 08-26-07, 07:18 PM	I rolled and totaled my car this morning. My heads so rattled, I really just need to take my mind off of things for a few minutes. So, yeah, this thread makes about as much sense as anything else right now; I'll take it ;).
Fireclave 08-26-07, 07:18 PM	Zousha_Omenohu hit the nail on the head. If you don't like lackeys that agree with you no matter what, hire some advisers: lackies who you pay to give you an unbiased opinion. You have complete control over who you hire, so just don't hire yes-men.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-26-07, 07:19 PM	Judging by the OP, I'd say it's a complaint that cohorts, followers and hirelings aren't roleplayed too much by DMs so the characters in question are always agreeing with what their boss tells them to do. The thing to remember is that that attitude is part and parcel with being the toady of a more powerful being than yourself throughout literature and popular culture. Any bad guy worth his salt has goons to keep the heroes busy while he perfects his evil schemes for world domination. And besides, lackeys who agree with you all the time aren't necessarily boring, such as Deekin in Neverwinter Nights. He follows you to the bitter end no matter how you treat him or how much dangers you encounter, and he manages to be a very interesting figure on his own.
Seraphelle 08-26-07, 10:30 PM	Well, the thing about lackeys is that they have to agree with you. That's what you're paying them for. If they disagree with you too much, then they're pretty much asking to be fired if you're a PC, or burned to a crisp and eaten if you're a BBEG. i guess really what i mean is this. not the character /character relationship nessesarily. most of the time yes, but not all. but the player/player relationship. not in-game. sorry i didn't clarify guys. but yes, good point on that ZO.
UltimateReality 08-27-07, 12:39 AM	i guess really what i mean is this. not the character /character relationship nessesarily. most of the time yes, but not all. but the player/player relationship. not in-game. sorry i didn't clarify guys. but yes, good point on that ZO.Oh, are you talking about the sort of "alpha wolf" mentality that frequently occurs in a "gaming pack"? The kind of thing where one guy (or gal) says stuff and the rest of the party just goes along because that person is the "party leader" in RL? That's a whole breed of its own...
Fireclave 08-27-07, 12:45 AM	i guess really what i mean is this. not the character /character relationship nessesarily. most of the time yes, but not all. but the player/player relationship. not in-game. sorry i didn't clarify guys. but yes, good point on that ZO. Then this problem doesn't seem have anything to do with a boss-lackey relationship at all. In most parties, even ones with a character that acts as the leader, each members typically has the same "rank" as every other PC in the party. Your problem seems to be that your fellow players are playing their characters very passively and are opting to just go with the flow of whoever decides to take the lead. There may be many reasons for this. Your party mates may not be comfortable with role playing their characters, they might have a hard time coming up with interesting character backgrounds and motivations, your DM's campaign may be focused more or killing and looting than plot development, etc and so on. Try talking with your fellow players and convince them to have their characters take charge and express their opinions more often. Talk to the DM and ask him/her to try creating scenarios where your other parties can shine. If the party is constantly looking to you for answers and guidance, try redirecting the spotlight on someone who is just as, or better suited for the task at hand.
arderkrag 08-27-07, 12:49 AM	I rolled and totaled my car this morning. My heads so rattled, I really just need to take my mind off of things for a few minutes. So, yeah, this thread makes about as much sense as anything else right now; I'll take it ;). Really? I woke up this morning, got myself a gun.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-27-07, 12:57 AM	Then this problem doesn't seem have anything to do with a boss-lackey relationship at all. In most parties, even ones with a character that acts as the leader, each members typically has the same "rank" as every other PC in the party. Your problem seems to be that your fellow players are playing their characters very passively and are opting to just go with the flow of whoever decides to take the lead. There may be many reasons for this. Your party mates may not be comfortable with role playing their characters, they might have a hard time coming up with interesting character backgrounds and motivations, your DM's campaign may be focused more or killing and looting than plot development, etc and so on. Another possible reason is that this one player is never appointed the leader but automatically becomes the leader because he/she/it has the best ideas. If it's because the party relies on this person for tactics, then it's a whole other story.
Escef 08-27-07, 06:01 AM	I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS. And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things. Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot! Jughead- Ya man, it rules! Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!! :banghead: I understand that not everyone is a leader. Some follow. But instead of just following, Archie essentially plays the chacter without acctually playing. i don't know if that applies but it semi- does. It doesn't seem fair. Jughead knows what he's doing. But he does everything Archie tells him to in- game. Ok, so in other words, you are attracted to Jughead and wish he'd get opinions of his own instead of apeing Archie's. Especially on matters of female attractiveness, as unlike Brittany, you are a brunette of average build who couldn't sing to save your life. That's great. Next time start a thread about D&D group dynamics instead of starting a thread about your unrequited love for an Archie comic book character and somehow desperately trying to tie it into D&D. :P
HouseElf 08-27-07, 06:37 AM	I don't see how the beastman skeletor relationship is supposed to be the best leader follower relationship. They have rapped together about gay sex, which while bonding is perhaps inappropriate , skeletor has killed beastman for incompetence once, and in general beastman acts like a long term victim of domestic abuse. Seems to me the worst example of an abuse of power in the workplace. (I think this is actually a pretty funny thread, not a troll thread.)
Seeker95 08-27-07, 08:49 AM	the POINT is the fact that lackies suck. because they agree wih anything the "boss" says.But they are lackeys becasue they agree with everything the boss says. Yes-men can only say yes to things other men say. Hate the boss, not the lackey.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-27-07, 08:53 AM	Ok, so in other words, you are attracted to Jughead and wish he'd get opinions of his own instead of apeing Archie's. Especially on matters of female attractiveness, as unlike Brittany, you are a brunette of average build who couldn't sing to save your life. That's great. Next time start a thread about D&D group dynamics instead of starting a thread about your unrequited love for an Archie comic book character and somehow desperately trying to tie it into D&D. :P :ahem: The original poster is not what we're discussing here. Leave her alone and contribute something worthwhile.
Mistress_Alexis 08-27-07, 09:03 AM	I think they might be complaining about his groups always listening to one players opinion and not thinking on their own, or am I giving them to much credit?
Zousha_Omenohu 08-27-07, 09:13 AM	Lackey = Pro-WotC fans that buy anything the company puts out no matter if it is junk. Begs for new editions. Leader = Those that define their own games. No need to beg for anything since they are creative. :ahem: This isn't a thread to air your dirty laundry about 4th Edition. That's what the Doomsday thread is for.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 08-27-07, 10:33 AM	I don't know about anyone else but lackies kinda suck. I mean just because Archie says one thing is cool doesn't mean Jughead should always agree. But he does. ALWAYS. And not just when it applys to DnD either. Jughead is Archies' lackey in all things. Archie- I'm a 25 year old dude and I think Brittany Spears has the best music, she's totally hot! Jughead- Ya man, it rules! Now, I'm sure Brittany is hot. But that doesn't mean her music is any good. It may be, but just because she's hot does NOT mean the music is good. Try telling that to any lackey though. But like I said, ALL THINGS. WTF!! :banghead: Can you repeat that in English, please? I don't speak Crazy.
Escef 08-27-07, 10:34 AM	:ahem: The original poster is not what we're discussing here. Leave her alone and contribute something worthwhile. You're no fun anymore. :pbbbtt:
IRememberCecil 08-27-07, 11:06 AM	Lackey = Pro-WotC fans that buy anything the company puts out no matter if it is junk. Begs for new editions. Leader = Those that define their own games. No need to beg for anything since they are creative. http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/Pro_test/1180043807790.png
Zousha_Omenohu 08-27-07, 12:21 PM	:clap: Beautiful! Just beautiful! I applaud you, Cecil. I couldn't have said it better myself!
Zousha_Omenohu 08-27-07, 12:22 PM	You're no fun anymore. :pbbbtt: You do realize that Eric Idle's going to come after you for stealing his line, dont you?:P
Escef 08-27-07, 12:39 PM	You do realize that Eric Idle's going to come after you for stealing his line, dont you?:P Y'know, I've had the idea of getting my friends together to make a Monty Python parody for years. It would start out with some situation where the man ina suit siting at a desk will starkly contrast with. He will look up from his papers and announce, "And now for something you've probably seen the likes of before."
Zousha_Omenohu 08-27-07, 01:12 PM	IT'S...
_Jayne_Cobb_ 08-27-07, 01:17 PM	IT'S... http://www.thesession.org/tunes/sheetmusic/libertybellmarch1_2767.gif
Seraphelle 08-27-07, 01:53 PM	But they are lackeys becasue they agree with everything the boss says. Yes-men can only say yes to things other men say. Hate the boss, not the lackey. You're absolutely right. Both of them suck. Perhaps I just don't like those kinda players. I believe players should assert their own opinions. I understand not each one will but they should.
Seraphelle 08-27-07, 01:57 PM	Oh, are you talking about the sort of "alpha wolf" mentality that frequently occurs in a "gaming pack"? The kind of thing where one guy (or gal) says stuff and the rest of the party just goes along because that person is the "party leader" in RL? That's a whole breed of its own... Exactly, but it applies to only two of the players. Plus itz not just applying to DnD. I don't mind having a group leader. I myself am a follower. But I at leat give my own opinion.
The White Sorcerer 08-27-07, 02:10 PM	You do realize that Eric Idle's going to come after you for stealing his line, dont you?:P And throw you under a camel. If he can roll a DC 9 Spot check, that is.
Zousha_Omenohu 08-27-07, 04:41 PM	:clap: Cobb, that's got to be the best response I've ever gotten for saying something just to be goofy. Though in all honesty, I think we should knock it off with the Monty Python jokes, or the WizOs might lock this thread because they think it's silly! (:D I couldn't resist.)
bonethug0108 08-27-07, 06:59 PM	I don't see how the beastman skeletor relationship is supposed to be the best leader follower relationship. They have rapped together about gay sex, which while bonding is perhaps inappropriate , skeletor has killed beastman for incompetence once, and in general beastman acts like a long term victim of domestic abuse. Seems to me the worst example of an abuse of power in the workplace. (I think this is actually a pretty funny thread, not a troll thread.) That's why it was called the leader/LACKEY relationship. What you described is exactly how the leader and lackey should act.:P Now if I said leader follower, perhaps teela and the lazy adam?
Hlethvagi 08-28-07, 01:30 AM	Hey all, I know the people the OP is talking about, and they suck! Boss or Archie is the DM who is often patting himself on the back about what a cool story or cool adventure he is running. Lackey or Jughead is a player who jumps to make a character that the boss or Archie says is Kewl. Archie always rewards players who make chars that he thinks are kewl, not what a particular player might think is kewl. Jughead always defers to Archie when making a new char. He really doesn't think much about it at all, just ask the DM what's kewl and that's what he makes. The rewards Archie often hands out for being a lackey are, never needing to make a saving throw, always hitting, or always succeeding on skill rolls that he thinks are kewl. They suck, and I chose not to play with them very much anymore. Hlethvagi
WizO_Mars 08-28-07, 03:27 AM	We're getting a little off topic here folks. Let's get it back on track, please. ;)
HouseElf 08-28-07, 04:17 AM	That's why it was called the leader/LACKEY relationship. What you described is exactly how the leader and lackey should act.:P (Ignore the advert at the start) http://www.ifilm.com/video/2665945 Thats one mean DM Player relationship.
bonethug0108 08-28-07, 04:22 AM	Thats one mean DM Player relationship. Was that Bam?:D Funny, if not a little strange....:P
Lady_Dragon 08-28-07, 04:42 AM	In most parties, even ones with a character that acts as the leader, each members typically has the same "rank" as every other PC in the party. Your problem seems to be that your fellow players are playing their characters very passively and are opting to just go with the flow of whoever decides to take the lead. There may be many reasons for this. Your party mates may not be comfortable with role playing their characters, they might have a hard time coming up with interesting character backgrounds and motivations, your DM's campaign may be focused more or killing and looting than plot development, etc and so on. Sounds like my group. My husband takes over in nearly any party he is a part of. It's not because he's a better roleplayer, necessarily, but it's because he knows he has an effective character and is confidant of his abilities. The other players, who may be more unsure of themselves, naturally refer to him on every decision they make. I have asked him to tone it down a little, to make sure everyone has a share of the spotlight, but the players will do what they want and if they don't complain, it's not an issue.
Escef 08-28-07, 05:51 AM	<snip> Psst. Linking to that is a violation of the Code of Conduct.