"Jeez, You nearly took my eye out!" [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Jeez, You nearly took my eye out!" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DragonRg6
03-29-04, 08:23 AM Question: I've been puzzling over this for some time, and I don't think it's mentioned in the rules. When a player takes a hit (or anyone takes a hit), we simply subtract hit points. However, this isn't all that realistic (Realism is difficult to have, I know, but still). Should I introduce a system whereby I randomly decide which part of the body gets hit, and how badly, and then impose the penalties that suggests (e.g hit with arrow in arm = -2 penalty on attack)?
Random bloke
03-29-04, 08:53 AM No, you shouldn't.

...

Seriously - D&D has an abstract damage system for a reason. Not only is it a lot simpler, but D&D (3e at least) isn't built to handle called shots. Just consider sorcerers going around, true striking crossbow bolts into bad guys eyes...

While theoretically speaking, a good called shot system might be possible... it would take someone who has a very good grasp of the rules, lots of experience, and some knowledge of other game systems with called shots.

In other words - not you.

No offense.
DragonRg6
03-29-04, 09:52 AM I'm so glad you have such faith in my abilities.

And thanks for answering - I wasn't going to implement it, I was simply asking if it was a possibility, or if there were rules covering it.
Seeker95
03-29-04, 10:20 AM Implement such a system in D&D? No.

If you really want to use a shot location system, play GURPS. The "hit point" system in that game supports called shots, simply because hit points are assigned to the armor (protective damage reduction) instead of to the target.
Majin_Tenshi
03-29-04, 06:23 PM I think its appropriote to view HP as stamina. HP damage can represent getting knocked around, or exausting themselves from dodgeing sword blows. (it occours that HP damage could partialy represent weakening in ones stance and thus defensive ability from evadeing blows)

Since the system isn't designed to differentiate between weakening caused by dodgeing induced exaustion or phisical damage, simply assumeing ever strike is landing in flesh a bad idea.

I'd say that its reasonable to do specific bodily damage on critical hits. Of course, determining how to do this gets rather nasty.

For instance, you have to take the armor and weapon type into account.
A halfling in a chainmail who gets hit by a warhammer is gonna get knocked into next week. Asumeing the damage taken represents getting hit, and not evadeing, the chainmail is practicly worthless. Here, a shattered rib cage seems appropriote.
If that same halfling were wearing Full Plate, broken bones seem a bit less likely, however, horibly mishapen armor (lots of penalties while wearing it and dificulty removeing it) seem probable.
edgelett
03-29-04, 07:00 PM How about instead of actually saying to a player "your character now has no arm" you're just more descriptive when describing battle?

i.e "He hacks his axe in to your shoulder, leaving a grevious wound that will need attending soon...it's bleeding rather badly"

cause while it may be cool for a little while to do "called shots" on creatures, after a few sessions when you have one blind PC, one PC with no arm and a PC with no legs, your players will get rather annoyed at having crippled characters!
Sulaco
03-30-04, 12:13 PM Originally posted by DragonRg6
Question: I've been puzzling over this for some time, and I don't think it's mentioned in the rules. When a player takes a hit (or anyone takes a hit), we simply subtract hit points. However, this isn't all that realistic (Realism is difficult to have, I know, but still). Should I introduce a system whereby I randomly decide which part of the body gets hit, and how badly, and then impose the penalties that suggests (e.g hit with arrow in arm = -2 penalty on attack)?

No. Trying to crowbar realism into D&D is a sucker's game. I spent many years crafting a massive set of house rules to do just that before I finally realized what a stupid and pointless excersize it was. Introducing a more detailed hit system in anethema to the D&D abstract combat and damage system. There are many systems out there that use detailed hit and damage systems - Rolemaster springs immediately to mind - and which doa far better job of it than a pseudo-realistc D&D hodge-podge ever could. Adding such a system to D&D is like hotwiring your Monolpoly board to the NYSE index: it is difficult, complex, doesn't make the game any more fun, and ultimately pointless.
reanjr
03-30-04, 01:04 PM Originally posted by Random bloke
While theoretically speaking, a good called shot system might be possible... it would take someone who has a very good grasp of the rules, lots of experience, and some knowledge of other game systems with called shots.

Alright, let me give it a (called) shot. Hah! Called shot! Get it...? Nevermind...

I will preface by saying that each armor covers only certain areas of the body. Won't go into details, should be pretty easy to figure out. An uncovered area receives no AC bonus from the armor (though shield still applies). If the creature has armor over that portion of the body apply a +4 bonus to the AC bonus of the armor. For example, attacking a chainmailed target in the legs, the armor would provide no bonus, but in the chest, the armor would provide a +9 bonus (+5 standard +4 for being covered in a called shot). Could also apply full cover bonus (I don't recall the exact mod for it), but I think that's excessive.

Each body part is given a size (with included size modifier to AC). This size can be creature specific (humans have diminutive hands, while halflings have fine hands), or you can simply add a standard size mod (hands are always diminutive) to the creature's already existing size mods (halflings are small).

Generally a hit simply causes HP damage and location is non-specific. Standard D&D fare. But, somtimes it can be easier to attack an unarmored portion of the body. In addition a good hit can cause penalties if they hit a certain part of the body.

One of two options for applying penalties.

1. If a called shot hits it causes the related panalty. Apply a -2 or -4 circumstance penalty (depends on how often you want this to happen) to the attack roll as they are waiting for a more specific opening.

2. Called shots only cause penalties (but still may be effective due to unarmored parts of the body) if the attack roll is a critical threat. Doesn't have to be a critical hit, just a threat.

Well, here's some sizes for various parts of the body. These are for a Medium creature. As stated above, you need not change these for other-sized creatures, but if you do, remember to negate the standard creature size mod to AC.

Eyes or Throat or other major blood vesel - Fine (+8 AC)
Hand or Foot - Diminutive (+4 AC)
Arm or Head - Tiny (+2 AC)
Leg, Torso, Tail or Wing - Small (+1 AC)

Now on to the penalties that apply (see above for when they apply)

Hand: -2 on attack rolls. -2 penalty on shield bonuses (min 0). Fort save DC 10+damage or drop item.

Foot: -2 on reflex saves (does not stack if multiple feet have been hit). Fort save DC 5+damage or fall to the ground prone and overall speed (not base speed) reduced to one half normal. If creature has more than two legs, half the legs have to be affected for this penalty (except the -2 reflex). If all the feet have been affected, -4 reflex and 5 ft. steps only.

Arm: Same as hand, but no chance to drop object. Stacks with hand penalties.

Leg: As foot, except no penalty to reflex saves. Note this means that there is no affect unless they fail their Fort save. It is still a great way to attack an armored opponent, though and has historical precedent where battles would end up with 75% of the wounded/dead suffering from leg wounds.

Head: Fort save DC damage dealt or dazed for one round. If they fail the Fort save by 10 or more (DC damage dealt - 10), they fall unconscious (drop to 0 hit points or 1d4+1 rounds, DMs choice of which rule to use)

Torso: Fort save DC damage dealt - 5 or become fatigued. If already fatigued become exhausted. If already exhausted then you just wasted a called shot as it does nothing.

Eye: Blinded for 1d4 rounds. This has no affect unless all other eyes are blinded (or you only have one eye). Fort save DC damage dealt or blinded permanently.

Throat or other major vein/artery: Fort save DC damage dealt or wounded and suffers 1 hp damage each round until Heal check DC 15 or cure spell.

Wing: Fort save DC 5+damage dealt or reduce maneuverability class by one (good to average, etc.). If already clumsy, then glides to the ground at a speed of 60ft. vertical. Can continue to move its fly speed until it lands.

Tail: No effect, but very often it is unarmored.

Well, anyway. I gave it a shot. Pretty simple, easy to remember (except maybe some of the Fort DCs). Doesn't break balance excessively (large critical range is definitely more useful).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonRg6 03-29-04, 08:23 AM	Question: I've been puzzling over this for some time, and I don't think it's mentioned in the rules. When a player takes a hit (or anyone takes a hit), we simply subtract hit points. However, this isn't all that realistic (Realism is difficult to have, I know, but still). Should I introduce a system whereby I randomly decide which part of the body gets hit, and how badly, and then impose the penalties that suggests (e.g hit with arrow in arm = -2 penalty on attack)?
Random bloke 03-29-04, 08:53 AM	No, you shouldn't. ... Seriously - D&D has an abstract damage system for a reason. Not only is it a lot simpler, but D&D (3e at least) isn't built to handle called shots. Just consider sorcerers going around, true striking crossbow bolts into bad guys eyes... While theoretically speaking, a good called shot system might be possible... it would take someone who has a very good grasp of the rules, lots of experience, and some knowledge of other game systems with called shots. In other words - not you. No offense.
DragonRg6 03-29-04, 09:52 AM	I'm so glad you have such faith in my abilities. And thanks for answering - I wasn't going to implement it, I was simply asking if it was a possibility, or if there were rules covering it.
Seeker95 03-29-04, 10:20 AM	Implement such a system in D&D? No. If you really want to use a shot location system, play GURPS. The "hit point" system in that game supports called shots, simply because hit points are assigned to the armor (protective damage reduction) instead of to the target.
Majin_Tenshi 03-29-04, 06:23 PM	I think its appropriote to view HP as stamina. HP damage can represent getting knocked around, or exausting themselves from dodgeing sword blows. (it occours that HP damage could partialy represent weakening in ones stance and thus defensive ability from evadeing blows) Since the system isn't designed to differentiate between weakening caused by dodgeing induced exaustion or phisical damage, simply assumeing ever strike is landing in flesh a bad idea. I'd say that its reasonable to do specific bodily damage on critical hits. Of course, determining how to do this gets rather nasty. For instance, you have to take the armor and weapon type into account. A halfling in a chainmail who gets hit by a warhammer is gonna get knocked into next week. Asumeing the damage taken represents getting hit, and not evadeing, the chainmail is practicly worthless. Here, a shattered rib cage seems appropriote. If that same halfling were wearing Full Plate, broken bones seem a bit less likely, however, horibly mishapen armor (lots of penalties while wearing it and dificulty removeing it) seem probable.
edgelett 03-29-04, 07:00 PM	How about instead of actually saying to a player "your character now has no arm" you're just more descriptive when describing battle? i.e "He hacks his axe in to your shoulder, leaving a grevious wound that will need attending soon...it's bleeding rather badly" cause while it may be cool for a little while to do "called shots" on creatures, after a few sessions when you have one blind PC, one PC with no arm and a PC with no legs, your players will get rather annoyed at having crippled characters!
Sulaco 03-30-04, 12:13 PM	Originally posted by DragonRg6 Question: I've been puzzling over this for some time, and I don't think it's mentioned in the rules. When a player takes a hit (or anyone takes a hit), we simply subtract hit points. However, this isn't all that realistic (Realism is difficult to have, I know, but still). Should I introduce a system whereby I randomly decide which part of the body gets hit, and how badly, and then impose the penalties that suggests (e.g hit with arrow in arm = -2 penalty on attack)? No. Trying to crowbar realism into D&D is a sucker's game. I spent many years crafting a massive set of house rules to do just that before I finally realized what a stupid and pointless excersize it was. Introducing a more detailed hit system in anethema to the D&D abstract combat and damage system. There are many systems out there that use detailed hit and damage systems - Rolemaster springs immediately to mind - and which doa far better job of it than a pseudo-realistc D&D hodge-podge ever could. Adding such a system to D&D is like hotwiring your Monolpoly board to the NYSE index: it is difficult, complex, doesn't make the game any more fun, and ultimately pointless.
reanjr 03-30-04, 01:04 PM	Originally posted by Random bloke While theoretically speaking, a good called shot system might be possible... it would take someone who has a very good grasp of the rules, lots of experience, and some knowledge of other game systems with called shots. Alright, let me give it a (called) shot. Hah! Called shot! Get it...? Nevermind... I will preface by saying that each armor covers only certain areas of the body. Won't go into details, should be pretty easy to figure out. An uncovered area receives no AC bonus from the armor (though shield still applies). If the creature has armor over that portion of the body apply a +4 bonus to the AC bonus of the armor. For example, attacking a chainmailed target in the legs, the armor would provide no bonus, but in the chest, the armor would provide a +9 bonus (+5 standard +4 for being covered in a called shot). Could also apply full cover bonus (I don't recall the exact mod for it), but I think that's excessive. Each body part is given a size (with included size modifier to AC). This size can be creature specific (humans have diminutive hands, while halflings have fine hands), or you can simply add a standard size mod (hands are always diminutive) to the creature's already existing size mods (halflings are small). Generally a hit simply causes HP damage and location is non-specific. Standard D&D fare. But, somtimes it can be easier to attack an unarmored portion of the body. In addition a good hit can cause penalties if they hit a certain part of the body. One of two options for applying penalties. 1. If a called shot hits it causes the related panalty. Apply a -2 or -4 circumstance penalty (depends on how often you want this to happen) to the attack roll as they are waiting for a more specific opening. 2. Called shots only cause penalties (but still may be effective due to unarmored parts of the body) if the attack roll is a critical threat. Doesn't have to be a critical hit, just a threat. Well, here's some sizes for various parts of the body. These are for a Medium creature. As stated above, you need not change these for other-sized creatures, but if you do, remember to negate the standard creature size mod to AC. Eyes or Throat or other major blood vesel - Fine (+8 AC) Hand or Foot - Diminutive (+4 AC) Arm or Head - Tiny (+2 AC) Leg, Torso, Tail or Wing - Small (+1 AC) Now on to the penalties that apply (see above for when they apply) Hand: -2 on attack rolls. -2 penalty on shield bonuses (min 0). Fort save DC 10+damage or drop item. Foot: -2 on reflex saves (does not stack if multiple feet have been hit). Fort save DC 5+damage or fall to the ground prone and overall speed (not base speed) reduced to one half normal. If creature has more than two legs, half the legs have to be affected for this penalty (except the -2 reflex). If all the feet have been affected, -4 reflex and 5 ft. steps only. Arm: Same as hand, but no chance to drop object. Stacks with hand penalties. Leg: As foot, except no penalty to reflex saves. Note this means that there is no affect unless they fail their Fort save. It is still a great way to attack an armored opponent, though and has historical precedent where battles would end up with 75% of the wounded/dead suffering from leg wounds. Head: Fort save DC damage dealt or dazed for one round. If they fail the Fort save by 10 or more (DC damage dealt - 10), they fall unconscious (drop to 0 hit points or 1d4+1 rounds, DMs choice of which rule to use) Torso: Fort save DC damage dealt - 5 or become fatigued. If already fatigued become exhausted. If already exhausted then you just wasted a called shot as it does nothing. Eye: Blinded for 1d4 rounds. This has no affect unless all other eyes are blinded (or you only have one eye). Fort save DC damage dealt or blinded permanently. Throat or other major vein/artery: Fort save DC damage dealt or wounded and suffers 1 hp damage each round until Heal check DC 15 or cure spell. Wing: Fort save DC 5+damage dealt or reduce maneuverability class by one (good to average, etc.). If already clumsy, then glides to the ground at a speed of 60ft. vertical. Can continue to move its fly speed until it lands. Tail: No effect, but very often it is unarmored. Well, anyway. I gave it a shot. Pretty simple, easy to remember (except maybe some of the Fort DCs). Doesn't break balance excessively (large critical range is definitely more useful).