Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 04:44 AM	Put plain and simple: I hate horses. Okay, maybe 'hate' is a bit strong of a term. More to the point, the typical, garden variety horse bores me to tears. I know that fantasy has a long and storied association with the horse: From the lofty mount of a paladin to the lowly draft horse pulling the tradesman's wagon. From the fiendish Nightmare to the fae Unicorn. One cannot swing the proverbial dead cat in your average fantasy setting without hitting an equine critter of some manner or other. "What's the point of this rant against innocent horseys?" you ask. "What did they ever do to him? Was he scared by a horse as a child? Was his uncle kicked in the head and killed by one, perhaps?" Nope. Just find them boring beyond words. Nothing more than that, I swear. :D Now what's the point of this? Simply thus... I'm finally getting off my butt and putting together the campaign world that I've been procrastinating on for quite a while. In the brainstorming, I've found myself hitting a wall time and again - the horse. One of the human nations I'm planning out has a strong cultural tie to their mounts. Children are taught to ride virtually as soon as they're able to walk. They form very strong bonds with their mounts, bordering on empathic communication at times. Chances are that the animal's motif will work its way into the artwork and architecture of the culture, a la that of the horses of Rohan in LotR. Etc etc etc. The problem I find is that I don't want horses to fill that role. The other problem is that none of the typical replacements that immediately come to mind are what I want either. The first replacements that leap to mind (my mind at least) would be large wolves/worgs or large riding lizards akin to the dewbacks from Star Wars. Wolves, as much as I love them, just feel kind of played out as well when it comes to alternative mounts and the lizards, which feel plodding and slow to me, don't really fit the picture I have in my mind. I want something swift and powerful - a animal that functions efficiently when swift riding is needed for hunting or travel as well as something that might be fearsome enough to make an enemy think twice of coming between a fallen rider and his protective mount. I also find myself torn between something based on a real-world animal of some kind or something totally new, created whole cloth. They both have their advantages: Real world animals (or at least animals based on them) are something easier for a player to picture and thereby, connect with. It's something familiar. New fantasy creatures have a flavor all their own and impart a degree of uniqueness to the setting and culture. As well as disadvantages: Real world beasties, much like horses, have the potential to feel old hat and perhaps too familiar. New creatures require a bit more suspension of disbelief since they're...well...NEW and don't have any kind of established conventions to give the players an easy point of connection to them. So what's a DM to do? Why, go to the D&D forums and solicit ideas from total strangers, of course! :D So what do you guys think? Anybody have any good suggestions that I may not have thought of? Or ones that I may have thought of, but with a new or unique twist on them? I'm getting a little desperate here. :) Also, for the record, there will be horses of a sort in the world (Even in my dislike, I recognize their utility and need). Dragon Magazine #149 had a Dragon's Bestiary article about some alternative horses that I've been planning on using for quite a while now. I'm going to pick and adapt a couple of them to fill the place of baseline horses in my setting so at least the ubiquitous, workaday beast of burden has a touch of different flavor to it. But this doesn't mean that I wanted to use them to fill the niche I mentioned above. I just wanted something different for this specific culture to have as a special, identifiable element.
Callista 01-25-05, 04:56 AM	Hmmm... okay, I'll bite. How about an intelligent race? This would lead to a sort of symbiosis... with neither mount nor rider being lower. Or in an evil society, intelligent mounts could be little better than slaves. Try cats. You REALLY have to form an empathic bond with one if you want to ride it; but if you can... wow! Horses have nothing on a cat's sheer speed and jumping ability, though cats are built for short bursts of speed and will tire more quickly. One would have to have a lot of respect for one's mount... since cats big enough to be ridden are also very dangerous. Obviously this will work only for smaller creatures, since larger ones would simply squash the poor feline. A world in which people ride large, flying beasts would be cool. That would change the entire economy, with flying now making roads near-obsolete and mountains passable--and the poor, who can't afford a flying mount, would be isolated in their patch of country, rather a bad situation for them. Trade would be easier with small goods, but harder with large things... in a world with no horses, rivers become major trade routes for things like wood, stone, and other bulky goods. How about a world with magical technology? Perhaps they have a worldwide magical method of travel. This could be anything from a portal system to magical "horseless carriages" to a magical subway, railway, or air transportation system. If the only method of travel that makes sense is your own two feet or a little hocus-pocus, you can bet on extremely specialized transportation spells and most characters with at least some training as a wizard or sorcerer. Hope these give you some ideas.
Savras 01-25-05, 05:08 AM	Well, go for camels! I mean, they're bizzare, good at combat, and they make superb warriors of their riders... See, camels limp on all four legs. Anyone, but anyone, who has only camels to ride is going to make anyone with access to horses very, very sorry... [/joking] They are fast, useful and stalwart. Put your nation in a deserty setting (be it frozen or hot), and there you are. Savras
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 05:22 AM	Well as for the last two options, I had already said that there will be variant horses in the world, so the "Horse as tool of commerce, farming and transport" model isn't really changing for the other 90% of the world (other than the fact that it won't be the typical Equus caballus type horse). Also, the last option just smacks too much of Eberron and I don't plan on the world being that high-magic anyway. As for the big cats - I admit to having thought about them before but I hadn't seriously considered it for many of the same reasons you mentioned: lack of endurance running, highly independant nature, etc. Though I have to think that an enraged big cat would definately make the average foot soldier think twice before moving in to attempt a coup de grace on its fallen rider. But overall, the downside seems to outweigh the positives. Hmmmmm.... :thinks:
Nuke 01-25-05, 05:36 AM	What about elephants? They make cool mounts, are awesome in warfare, and are intelligent. They're real world (everyone knows what an elephant is) but they're also somewhat mysterious to most people so it has a good fantasy element too.
nick012000 01-25-05, 05:57 AM	Use dinosaurs. They're recognizable, but different.
Saihtam 01-25-05, 06:29 AM	Have you tought about worm-like creatures: they can be used as mount and they can improve the quality of farmlands. I think the coolest choice are ostriches ( :uh-huh: I have no idea if this is even a word in english : I mean the big australian birds who can't fly and have the myth of sticking their heads in the ground).
Guryaa, Turtle Cat 01-25-05, 06:37 AM	One word: Chocobos :D
RunningWilder 01-25-05, 07:46 AM	Three-Toed Sloth! For one minute a day, it can go voom! Of course, voom for a three-toed sloth is about 2 feet per round.
Spoik 01-25-05, 08:18 AM	The guy (or gal) who suggested dinosaurs was right on the money. Something like a deinonychus or a struthiomimus would be ideal. Of course, IRL these critters probably weren't a) strong enough, or b) smart enough to carry a rider, but what's a little creative license between friends? I deliberately suggested dino's that could, with a little imagination, fill the role of the horse, because whilst the idea of a nation of, say, T-Rex riders is pretty cool, you might have a bit of trouble, suspension-of-disbelief wise. Although...
The Philosopher King 01-25-05, 08:21 AM	I think the coolest choice are ostriches ( I have no idea if this is even a word in english : I mean the big australian birds who can't fly and have the myth of sticking their heads in the ground). Ostriches is indeed English - although you're confusing the African(?) head-into-ground stickers with Aussie Emus. Let me tell you - no-one but no-one rides an emu. They're... not docile. But nevertheless the idea of riding big, fast, flightless birds is very cool. Or roos. Stick em on roos and have them make balance checks every round :)
Ricky 01-25-05, 09:27 AM	I would also like to suggest ostriches. They're enormously fast and they can kick REALLY hard with their feet. There are no stats for them in the MM, but you should be able to come up with something easily.
Ilium 01-25-05, 09:56 AM	And people actually do ride ostriches occasionally (I've seen races on TV) so it can be done. I'm sure they can't carry nearly as much as a horse, but you could have a bigger, more sturdy bird in your world. As far as dinosaurs, you could also go with something 4-legged to get the carrying/pulling power. Maybe they use both a 2-legged war-mount (like a Deinonychus or Iguanadon or something) and a big wagon-pulling thing like a triceratops or an ankylosaur.
Edymnion 01-25-05, 10:28 AM	Chocobos got an official writeup in Dragon (323 I think it was) that was rather well done. And Chocobos are just plain cool anyway. Or you can go the Eberron route, and have haflings riding dinosaurs. Or make up an entirely new critter.
mageineer 01-25-05, 10:55 AM	Maybe an animal like the American Bison. Big, strong and nasty. You could add some intellegence. Maybe I'll use it in my campaign.
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 11:16 AM	What about elephants? They make cool mounts, are awesome in warfare, and are intelligent. They're real world (everyone knows what an elephant is) but they're also somewhat mysterious to most people so it has a good fantasy element too. Just a wee bit too big though. As impressive as a hunting party on elephant-back would look in theory, they're a bit more 'mobile siege engine'-y than I would like ;) And they don't have that image of fleetness that I'm looking for. Which is sad, because they do fit most of the other categories that I was looking for, as you mentioned. Sadly, I begin to worry that real world critters may not fit my bill. :weep:
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 11:18 AM	Well, go for camels! I mean, they're bizzare, good at combat, and they make superb warriors of their riders... See, camels limp on all four legs. Anyone, but anyone, who has only camels to ride is going to make anyone with access to horses very, very sorry... [/joking] :rolleyes: :D Heheh. Interesting idea. Don't think I ever considered camels...they always struck me as a little goofy, personally. But then again, I'm weird...
Nytmare 01-25-05, 11:24 AM	What are the primary things you're looking for with these animals? Which would you rank as most important? Do you want a combat-alicious predator that doubles as a beast of burden, or vice versa? What kind of location do you envision for this society? Sweeping plains, rocky hills, steamy jungles? One of the Myth books had a big sporting event with mounted riders. One of the teams had it's rider on a giant millipede. There are all kinds of bugs that could work. Giant spiders, wasps, or scorpions would work as combat types. Something akin to a giant flea might be interesting for something outrageously mobile. The idea of working hand in hand (in hand) with a giant ant colony or something has possibilities, fighters for fighting, workers for working, and... queens for queening. Big cats don't have to be all cranky and independant. Is the long distance endurance running that big a deal for you? Their combat effectiveness and close quarter maneuverability would be awe inspiring. Large boars would be neat, but I can't imagine a society built up around them that wasn't pretty barbaric culturally. Flightless birds were pointed out, but wasn't there a big D&D monster bird called an Axe Beak at some point in the past.
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 11:24 AM	Use dinosaurs. They're recognizable, but different. Meh...Eberron again. Not that I don't like the idea, mind you, but my world's also going to have a 'Lost World' type area (trite and cliche as it may be). I wanted to keep the dinos confined to there, isolated and 'in their niche' as it were. Trying not to dilute their flavor any if I can help it. And for the record, folks: Just because I may shoot a suggestion down doesn't mean that I'm being disagreeable or cantankerous. I appreciate every suggestion and idea thrown my way and think it's cool that you're taking the time to respond. :) I'm just throwing back my feelings on each idea, be it for good or ill.
Leibel 01-25-05, 11:26 AM	First off I do model the humans living w/the elves and hobgoblins off of the LOTR kingdom of Rohan - they are most of the cavalry(elves smaller numbers mean they contribute quality not quantity, while hobbers are infantry boys). Still alternate mounts - my lizardfolk use monitory lizards and a small number of triceratops(borrowed from warhammers stegadon). Camels are a good option - they scare horses too mind you so might want to throw something in the game for that. Goblins use worgs heavily. Dwarves have some cavalry but very little. Infantry w/Crossbows and axes mostly w/some clerics enough druids/wizards to counter enemy spellcasters and get in hand to hand where that Con+2 and dwarven half plate makes all the difference. Still for cavalry they use horses and lizards. Elephants are nice too. Look at what they did to the Rohirrim in ROTK.
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 11:28 AM	Have you tought about worm-like creatures: they can be used as mount and they can improve the quality of farmlands. :uh-huh: This may be the since weirdest suggestion I've heard in the last few years. :) And oddly enough, it's intriguing me. Worms have a bit of a tendency to be rather mindless, but at the same time, I'm getting weird mental images of miniature sandworm riders, ala Dune. Hmmmmm.....
Lionhearted 01-25-05, 11:39 AM	Flightless birds were pointed out, but wasn't there a big D&D monster bird called an Axe Beak at some point in the past. long, looooooooooooooooong ago? I don't think so. the Axebeaks excists in the AaEG that also have other alternative mounts take a look in that book
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 11:54 AM	Three-Toed Sloth! For one minute a day, it can go voom! Of course, voom for a three-toed sloth is about 2 feet per round. Heh. See, when I was paging through MM2 and I hit the entry for the Forest Sloth (which for those who haven't read it, isn't very 'sloth-like' in speed) I said "Ooooh...now THAT looks kinda cool" since it's visually similar to animals we know and find familiar, while at the same time being just 'fantasy' enough to be different. The beasts, as written, wouldn't make very good mounts however. Maybe take the appearance, modify it a tad bit and re-stat it with a different name? More and more, I'm thinking I'm going to have to lean towards that approach and less towards the 'real animal' path. :thinks:
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 12:00 PM	Of course, IRL these critters probably weren't a) strong enough, or b) smart enough to carry a rider, but what's a little creative license between friends? Yeah I've realized that I'm going to have to run some creative license if the animal's any way based on something real-world no matter what I go with. And the T-Rex thing I agree with. Also brings the elephant issue to mind, to a degree. They're WAY bigger than what I wanted to go with - looking for something big enough to fit in the average family's 'garage' as it were. Pretty much every family's going to have at LEAST one of these mounts, if not more...which also leads me to having to think on where they're going to find food for all these crittters. Abundant, fertile farm/grazing land? What if they're meat eaters? Hmmm...
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 12:16 PM	Chocobos got an official writeup in Dragon (323 I think it was) that was rather well done. And Chocobos are just plain cool anyway. Or you can go the Eberron route, and have haflings riding dinosaurs. Or make up an entirely new critter. Guryaa suggested chocobos as well and I have to agree that after seeing that Dragon article you mentioned when it came out that I was sorely tempted to use them. They fit a lot of the criteria I'm looking for. Speedy, loyal, bright, pretty much built for riding. But they're also cute. Darn cute. And cute is pretty much the antithesis of 'intimidating' ;) hehehe Hmmm...maybe with a couple twists....Dire Chocobos anybody? :D I'd also have to twist them in some manner anyways just so my players didn't immediately think "Hey! Chocobos!" on first seeing them. Gotta say that I like them better than ostriches. My main problem with ostriches is that, like camels, they've always struck me as goofy. No offense to the ostrich fans out there, mind you. :) Dinosaurs seem to be getting a lot of votes too, which I totally understand. But as I mentioned above, between Eberron and their already defined place in my world, I'm gonna have to disqualify them from the running. Getting some interesting ideas though, people. I appreciate it! Keep 'em coming!
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 12:19 PM	Maybe an animal like the American Bison. Big, strong and nasty. You could add some intellegence. Maybe I'll use it in my campaign. I had a friend suggest something similar to me several months to a year ago (yes, I've really been hanging on this problem for a while :P). We also kicked around the idea of something along the lines of a deer/gazelle or maybe into the more beefy elk/moose area too, since the deer/gazelle types seem rather fragile.
Nytmare 01-25-05, 12:57 PM	And all you have to do is teach the bison to stampede towards the danger and you're set.
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 01:01 PM	What are the primary things you're looking for with these animals? Which would you rank as most important? Do you want a combat-alicious predator that doubles as a beast of burden, or vice versa? Ideally (and yes, I know...we can't always have the ideal) it would be nice to strike a balance between the two. But it would lean more toward beast of burden with good combat abilities if I had to tip the scales one way or another. I don't really see them being solitary alpha predators on their own or in the wild. What kind of location do you envision for this society? Sweeping plains, rocky hills, steamy jungles? I think I should have given a bit more information from the beginning - my bad. :( The terrain is likely going to be big stretches of hilly moors, a few more arable plains and rocky hills with small patches of forest. The climate is going to be towards the cool side of temperate. The people are a sturdy, rugged folk. Quiet and somewhat stoic to outsiders but warm behind closed doors with family. A harsh land has forged a people sometimes harsh by necessity. I wanted to go with kind of a semi-slavic feel to the lands and culture. And as said before, these animals have a very strong place in their cultural identity. They don't treat them like animals, per se. They're viewed as extended family and perhaps also with a small degree of reverence and awe. They're likely going to hunt from the backs of these mounts with the rider and animal functioning as more or less a single unit in battle (hence the near-empathy I mentioned before). I also debated having them raise some manner of canine/lupine creatures as well that would function in tandem with them on their hunts, serving to flush out game and/or herd and harry larger animals into position for the riders. Big cats don't have to be all cranky and independant. Is the long distance endurance running that big a deal for you? Their combat effectiveness and close quarter maneuverability would be awe inspiring. Large boars would be neat, but I can't imagine a society built up around them that wasn't pretty barbaric culturally. I actually had boars cross my mind last night after I sent the original post and I came to a similar conclusion on the barbarism issue. These people are hardy, for certain and it's entirely possible that other nations may view them as barbarians, if only due to their lifestyle. But in the end, they're most definately not all raging psychopaths :) As for the cat/endurance issue: yeah, sadly enough, endurance IS rather a big issue for me. :/ And I know I could always just tweak out the endurance issue for the sake of what I want. I could do the same to the independance/cranky factor as well...but then, in the end, I'm left with a cat body bereft of most of it's defining characteristics, beyond its combat capabilites - which I agree are VERY impressive. I'm thinking more and more that it's just going to have to end up being some tweaked, hybrid version of something or other. That, or a whole cloth invention.
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 01:05 PM	long, looooooooooooooooong ago? I don't think so. the Axebeaks excists in the AaEG that also have other alternative mounts take a look in that book AaEG? I feel rather stupid for not placing the acronym. :help:
shadowpraxis 01-25-05, 01:13 PM	And all you have to do is teach the bison to stampede towards the danger and you're set. :heehee: True... :P
DungeonMaster 01-25-05, 01:14 PM	Seems like you're inclined to the prehistoric, why not open up a book (or search the web) for prehistoric animals? Don't do dinosaurs, that's been done to death. However prehistoric mammals offer an amazing variety of creatures! My suggestions include: The moa. Huge flightless bird. A mid-range horse, sorta strong but quick over short distances. http://www.duke.edu/~mrd6/moa/gallery.html Glyptodon. Heavy armored mammal and very strong. Humans would use it akin to a Clydsdale, a workhorse. http://www.zoomstore.com/subjects/mammals/armadillo/Glyptodonprintout.shtml Macrauchenia. Highly mobile all terrain horse like thing that can cover long distances without rest. http://www.angellis.net/Web/DFG-ung/Macrauchenia.htm Or even marsupials such as the diprotodon: http://www.lostkingdoms.com/facts/factsheet48.htm
Braids 01-25-05, 01:41 PM	long, looooooooooooooooong ago? I don't think so. the Axebeaks excists in the AaEG that also have other alternative mounts take a look in that book I dunno, I seem to remember something of that sort from a Dragonlance book, not sure if the name was actually Axebeak though.
Ogre4Hire 01-25-05, 01:49 PM	The Fiend Folio has stats for the Megatherium (Giant Ground Sloth) and Indricother, while the Frostburn supplement has stats for Woolly Mammoths, Glyptodonts, and Megalocerous (Irish Elk). Personally, I like using the Megatheriums and Woolly Mammoths quite a bit. I tell you, those Sloths are like SUVs with Big !@#$ing claws!
e-z0r 01-25-05, 01:56 PM	A couple ideas: First thing I thought of was an emu as well. They're odd, but that claw and that kicking power sure is intimidating. Dire animals. Perhaps dire badgers? Oh! Oh! I got it! Dire Wolverine - Now THAT is frightening. Imagine this immense wolverine made out of pure muscle. Man! Griffons - Flying, strong, generally bad-ass. http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersG.html#griffon Giant eagle? Majestic, proud, strong. The King could have a Roc, or a family of such creatures. http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersEtoF.html#giant-eagle Shadow Mastiff? http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersS.html#shadow-mastiff Bulette? Dragonne? Hippogriff? http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersHtoI.html#hippogriff Owlbear? Felldrakes? Found in the MM2, these wingless dragons look BAD ASS! I want one for my Paladin. (That is, if I had a paladin.) Beginning unadvanced at 3 HD, these aren't even so big that they'd be impossible to imagine.
Nuke 01-25-05, 02:09 PM	Just a wee bit too big though. As impressive as a hunting party on elephant-back would look in theory, they're a bit more 'mobile siege engine'-y than I would like ;) And they don't have that image of fleetness that I'm looking for. Which is sad, because they do fit most of the other categories that I was looking for, as you mentioned. Sadly, I begin to worry that real world critters may not fit my bill. :weep: I was thinking more along the line of Asian elephants. They're not as big as their African brothers, and are used as labor in India and that region. They're held in pretty high regard there, which made me think of them when you mentioned the bond that your group would have with their mounts. But yeah, they're not that fast. Although you'd be pretty hard pressed to find an animal that is both fleet of foot and has a lot of endurance. Except well, a horse. It's usually a tradeoff between one or the other.
Drachasor 01-25-05, 03:06 PM	Giant Platypuses! You can modify the body a bit ot make it more optimized for swimming. Poison can stay or go as you see fit, and perhaps they use the burrowing capability of the beast as well. It fits the type of area as well, with minor modifications (easily adapts for being a mount for distances over water). Biggest thing is finding a way to justifty good speed on the thing. That can be explained magically or through longer legs and perhaps, if needed, modified webbed feet...shouldn't be too hard though. -Drachasor
Muxe 01-25-05, 03:15 PM	How about Rhinos? They are awesome looking and a large but not elephant large. I know this is similar to wolves but how about large dogs like a dire version of a bull mastif? or a larger version of a ram would be awesome. Very sturdy well suited for a variety of terrain including mountains and they have big horns. Also the never ending story path of the racing snail! Maybe something like those...shoot those furry horned things they rode on in starwars on hoth. That is all I can think of off hand.
PhaedrusXY 01-25-05, 03:23 PM	Guryaa suggested chocobos as well and I have to agree that after seeing that Dragon article you mentioned when it came out that I was sorely tempted to use them. They fit a lot of the criteria I'm looking for. Speedy, loyal, bright, pretty much built for riding. But they're also cute. Darn cute. And cute is pretty much the antithesis of 'intimidating' ;) hehehe Hmmm...maybe with a couple twists....Dire Chocobos anybody? :D I'd also have to twist them in some manner anyways just so my players didn't immediately think "Hey! Chocobos!" on first seeing them. Gotta say that I like them better than ostriches. My main problem with ostriches is that, like camels, they've always struck me as goofy. No offense to the ostrich fans out there, mind you. :) Dinosaurs seem to be getting a lot of votes too, which I totally understand. But as I mentioned above, between Eberron and their already defined place in my world, I'm gonna have to disqualify them from the running. Getting some interesting ideas though, people. I appreciate it! Keep 'em coming!Did you ever play Ultima Online? They had ostards... which were alot like ostriches, but more reptilian. I at first thought "Oh great, chocobos. How silly."... until I was mauled by a frenzied ostard. Then I was terrified of them, lol. I hated the chocobos from FF for being too cute too. So I'd suggest using the chocobo stats, but coming up with a different name (maybe ostard), and give them some decent attack cabability. There were also alot of different varieties of ostards in Ultima Online, but they were mainly different in appearance only (except for the frenzied ones.... they were scary). There are also a ton of crazy animals in the Star Wars universe that you could use. You'd probably even be able to find stats for alot of them in the Star Wars D20 books.
Azual 01-25-05, 06:17 PM	i love emus anyway, my best choice for you would be horses, i know thats bizarre but there a reason why they chose 'em.
Ironwulf 01-25-05, 06:52 PM	How about a Zebra, horse-like without being a horse.
Elzaban the Ethereal 01-25-05, 06:55 PM	We also kicked around the idea of something along the lines of a deer/gazelle or maybe into the more beefy elk/moose area too, since the deer/gazelle types seem rather fragile. I've got to side with the idea of moose as mounts. If I ever saw a group of moose-mounted cavalry running towards me, I'd probably be paralyzed with fear and then get killed. Moose are vicious with angry, and even when not their somewhat scary. They can preform decently in marshy areas to boot. The moral of the story - if I was playing in your campaign and got between a moose and its rider, I'd probably be looking for a ring of invisibility or a scroll of teleport. Very quickly.
Nytmare 01-25-05, 07:28 PM	I've got to side with the idea of moose as mounts. Anything you need set of steps to get on top of is probably a bad idea.
player2 01-25-05, 07:41 PM	Why not lions? they have good endurance, move 40ft, and are quite deadly in combat. Imagine being in a lions' mouth while being choped at by it's rider? Not fun sounding.
Vanigo 01-25-05, 07:55 PM	Maybe domesticated bears? A real bear wouldn't be much good as a mount unless you were feeling suicidal, but a few thousand generations of selective breeding could fix that. You'd have to mess with the stats a bit, of course. I don't know if bears have the speed or stamina you'd want in a mount, though. Also, Frostburn has a couple new mounts you might want to check out. There's the glyptodon, which is like a giant armadillo, and the megaloceros, which is kinda like a dire elk. Glyptodons probably aren't any good for you, because their speed is a measly 20, but megaloceroses have a halfway decent 40. They're also pretty combat-ready, with six hit dice and a CR of 4. They've got a habitat of cold marshes, of course, but that's easy enough to change.
PhaedrusXY 01-25-05, 09:07 PM	Moose are vicious with angry, and even when not their somewhat scary.A moose once bit my sister.
Stardrake 01-25-05, 10:22 PM	You might want to think about caribou/reindeer--not as big as a moose, but still of impressive size. And do you want to deal with those antlers??? :D Sounds like they fit your climate well enough, too. Worth a thought...
Vanigo 01-25-05, 10:35 PM	You might want to think about caribou/reindeer--not as big as a moose, but still of impressive size. And do you want to deal with those antlers??? :D Sounds like they fit your climate well enough, too. Worth a thought... They're statted out in Frostburn, too, but they're medium size, so humans can't ride them. I suppose a caribou advanced to 5 hit dice could serve as a mount, though.
Tibs 01-26-05, 12:34 AM	Y'know, a griffin might not be a bad choice-they're tough, fast, and, lest we forget, wicked cool. And they fly. Also cool. And let's face it, a civilization built around the griffin would be pretty awesome. ...Although, a griffin might be a bit too wild/fierce for more domestic purposes. I suppose they would make more sense in a hunting/fighting context.
CJ1720 01-26-05, 01:23 AM	Mynd you, moose bites kan be pretti nasti
Incenjucar 01-26-05, 02:06 AM	You could always have specifically-bred versions of other creatures... You want a cat you can ride? Breed the most ridable ones. Just don't go too far, or you'll end up riding Cringer... Also, what about snakes? Winged snakes? Land versions of sea creatures? (Riding snails aside, imagine riding a land squid or a giant crab in to battle). Land dolphins?
e-z0r 01-26-05, 05:40 AM	They're statted out in Frostburn, too, but they're medium size, so humans can't ride them. I suppose a caribou advanced to 5 hit dice could serve as a mount, though. Where does it say a medium creature can't ride another medium creature? The felldrake description says that elves sometimes ride them, but they're medium, and so are elves.
Spoik 01-26-05, 09:52 AM	I'm begining to think you might be best off making something up, after all. The trick, of course, is creating something that is new and interesting but is still 'recognisable' in some way: these beasts are supposed to be iconic to their culture, after all, and you don't want your players scratching their heads in confusion... Well, fear not - even a mammalian quadruped can be interesting and different; think of the Landstriders in The Dark Crystal...
sooperspook 01-26-05, 10:09 AM	goats. very big , specially bred goats. they're close enough to horses in shape that your players will be able to imagine them easily yet they're different enough in temprament that you can add whatever modifications you want. then your 'riders' can be a bit mongolian-like. living off of goats milk and goats blood instead of mares milk and blood. herding large er... herds, of them accross the landscape. and can you imagine the sight of a warrior charging you with his mounts head lowered and equiped with really nasty horns?
Drachasor 01-26-05, 10:25 AM	Hmm, well, I liked my Giant Platypus idea...though the Moose idea is also interesting.... Perhaps a Platymoose? Duck-billed, of course. The front hooves would have the poison injectors, half of its nose would be the bill, and it would have legs that are more flexible and more fluffy/warm parts on its underside so that it can sit down and warm its eggs. Of course it also produces milk (for drinking and for cheese). Perhaps the poison has some other use as well. -Drachasor
Elzaban the Ethereal 01-26-05, 10:35 AM	Forget mooses, I found something that would be even cooler while browsing the MMII: make them ride catoblepases. Seriously, nothing says scary mount like a death ray. The best part is that they're Neutral, so it's not like you'd be riding around on anything evil. *goes off to figure out how to insert catoblepas mounts into WLD*
Cardinal Teplin 01-26-05, 11:05 AM	A few random suggestions Giant insects. Grasshopper, huge centipede or a ladybrid with a howdah on its back. If you think that looks too silly, change them to be shaggy creatures, make them blind but give them tremorsense, and turn the antenna into curled horns. Make levitate-style telekinesis a level 0 spell that almost anyone can do, like the gnome's racial abilties. Then everyone can float/sail across the landscape. You may wish to avoid/indulge in surfboard style transport. Undead birds. The driver sits on the back, melding his spirit into the skeleton, while passengers/cargo sit inside the ribcage. You could do an entire necromancer-based economy while you're at it. Necromancy is clean, long lasting, non-polluting, and NEVER involves humans, oh no, not ever. Elf-based economy. The spirits of the land will take you to your destination, plough your field, tote your cargo, etc. but you have to do something in return. Play music, dance for them, blood sacrifice, choose something that suits your world. Good for a slightly sinister pastrol idyll, where folk music is a survival necesscity, and people are happy and jolly because if they aren't, they disappear in the night... Create a servitor race, say some form of minotaur race with if anything even less intelligence than a horse. They mainly get used as beasts of burden, but you could use one as a personal mount. Breed carts. Living unintelligent self propelled wagons, carts, and so on. Fancy carriages and so on are very expensive, and have to bred like prize dogs. Large black panthers - with gold barding Something like an unintelligent beholder, but with long tenctacles to pull itself along, and large enough to to sat on. This makes a nice contrast since they would be much slower in flat open plains, and much faster in forest, where they can get a good purchase to pull along. As opposed to horses, which are largely the opposite. Bullette (landshark) makes a good mount, and the fin can protect you from flying rubble. Giant snakes, or possibly giant newts - something shorter and fatter than snake with vestigial claws. Yaks
Derren S. 01-26-05, 12:32 PM	Gelatineous Cubus (Arms & Equipment Guide) :D
Shas'O 01-26-05, 02:53 PM	I must also say some sort of insect, I think the idea of hundreds of warriors charging at the enemy with leaping, flying, multi-legged creatures to be awesome, just imagine a Cadre of warriors mounted (With speical mounting gears and barding) Riding a bunch of scorpions or Praying manti into battle, the mounts could kick a lot of butt as well, as the Scorpion has posioning abilities, so it could weaken the enemies, and the Manti can seriously whoop on people with those claws. Make them Intelligent, and BAM, bad-ass riding mounts.
Ogre4Hire 01-26-05, 03:32 PM	Elf-based economy. The spirits of the land will take you to your destination, plough your field, tote your cargo, etc. but you have to do something in return. Play music, dance for them, blood sacrifice, choose something that suits your world. Good for a slightly sinister pastrol idyll, where folk music is a survival necesscity, and people are happy and jolly because if they aren't, they disappear in the night... Elves don't work very well. They're small and not very tough. I usually can't get any to make it for a couple of miles before they up and collapse on me.:devil:
e-z0r 01-26-05, 04:44 PM	A weird part of my being, while making my first post, thought about dwarves. Little, ugly, stunty critters enslaved for riding and pack animals. Guess there's a little BBEG in me after all.
Vanigo 01-26-05, 04:54 PM	Where does it say a medium creature can't ride another medium creature? The felldrake description says that elves sometimes ride them, but they're medium, and so are elves. Well, here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a), for starters.
Shalamar 01-26-05, 05:04 PM	I like the giant Bird of Prey route. Different mounts would give those riding them different roles. Giant Hawk: Light, Swift. Good for Messengers, harrassing troops. Cons: Can't carry much, best for skirmishers. Giant Eagle: Heavy, slower Heavy Calvary, could carry much more, and have better endurance. Give them wing blade, and have them plummet into enemy lines, with the rider carrying a lance. Sounds Nasty to me. Hrm. In fact, I quite like it. Giant Owls: Slow, silent, and excellent night hunters. The scouts, and infiltrators. Good for the roguish types. Have the people within the society do a 'quest' of sorts that has them find thier mount. They raise from when thier a little older (pre teens), thus gainging the bond and training. Of course, even if you don't like giant birds, who says you need only ONE mount, having a variety of mounts (But still simular) could create an interesting society, and cultural structure.
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 08:46 PM	The Fiend Folio has stats for the Megatherium (Giant Ground Sloth) and Indricother, while the Frostburn supplement has stats for Woolly Mammoths, Glyptodonts, and Megalocerous (Irish Elk). Personally, I like using the Megatheriums and Woolly Mammoths quite a bit. I tell you, those Sloths are like SUVs with Big !@#$ing claws! Since I don't have FF yet, could you give me a basic rundown on the Megatherium? I don't want the full entry...just basics: HD, CR, Speed, Strength and Con...stuff like that. Wanna see how it stacks up versus the sloth in MM2
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 08:49 PM	Did you ever play Ultima Online? They had ostards... which were alot like ostriches, but more reptilian. I at first thought "Oh great, chocobos. How silly."... until I was mauled by a frenzied ostard. Then I was terrified of them, lol. I hated the chocobos from FF for being too cute too. So I'd suggest using the chocobo stats, but coming up with a different name (maybe ostard), and give them some decent attack cabability. There were also alot of different varieties of ostards in Ultima Online, but they were mainly different in appearance only (except for the frenzied ones.... they were scary). There are also a ton of crazy animals in the Star Wars universe that you could use. You'd probably even be able to find stats for alot of them in the Star Wars D20 books. I played it for the free month that came with it back circa...*thinks*...2000? I don't remember a ton about it (beyond some annoying PKers) nor are the ostards particularly standing out in my mind...though I do seem to remember SOME kind of bird-y mount. Hmmmm... Re-worked chocobo with the serial numbers filed off and some increased combat ability is definately one of the contenders though...
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 08:53 PM	They're statted out in Frostburn, too, but they're medium size, so humans can't ride them. I suppose a caribou advanced to 5 hit dice could serve as a mount, though. Are they actually statted out? Or are you talking about the dire elk thing somebody else mentioned being in Frostburn? What kind of speed are we talking? CR? I know I'll have to tweak it somewhat anyways if I have to advance it...just curious...
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 09:26 PM	I'm begining to think you might be best off making something up, after all. The trick, of course, is creating something that is new and interesting but is still 'recognisable' in some way: these beasts are supposed to be iconic to their culture, after all, and you don't want your players scratching their heads in confusion... Yeah I'm rapidly thinking the same thing myself. That's the problem I've been running into from the outset. Something too alien is going to end up so much meaningless fantasy gibberish: First Player: "Yeah I'll mount up on my...ummm....whuzzit called again? *Checks character sheet*......my blognorf" Other player: "Blognorf?" First player: "Yeah, you know...those flying ummm....monkey-dog things that my people ride?" Other player: "I thought they were supposed to be more like flying lizard-ferrets?" First player: "Hell if I know... Crap, I think you're right. I think they are supposed to be lizard-ferrets." DM: *exasperated* "How many times do I have to tell you guys? Blognorf are slinky, elongated, scaly quadrupeds with bat-like wings that are historically tied to the culture of...." First player: *to Other Player* "You were right. Lizard-ferrets." Heh. And after typing that, now I have dire ferrets running through my head. :rolleyes: :D
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 09:29 PM	Hmm, well, I liked my Giant Platypus idea...though the Moose idea is also interesting.... Perhaps a Platymoose? Duck-billed, of course. The front hooves would have the poison injectors, half of its nose would be the bill, and it would have legs that are more flexible and more fluffy/warm parts on its underside so that it can sit down and warm its eggs. Of course it also produces milk (for drinking and for cheese). Perhaps the poison has some other use as well. -Drachasor o.O *Blink* Ummmm.... *Blink* *Looks quickly and quietly for the door*
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 09:32 PM	Forget mooses, I found something that would be even cooler while browsing the MMII: make them ride catoblepases. Seriously, nothing says scary mount like a death ray. The best part is that they're Neutral, so it's not like you'd be riding around on anything evil. *goes off to figure out how to insert catoblepas mounts into WLD* Heh...think I'm going to have to pass on the catoblepases....catoblepi? Meh. Still, the death-ray's a bit much for me, thanks. :D
psionichamster 01-26-05, 09:36 PM	bison. celestial or otherwise, they are tough, strong, long-lasting animals, capable of moving in herds for long periods at a time... perhaps more or less hairy, as you see fit... added commercial benefit: wool and milk/cheese for the clan... alternatively...giant freaking goats...if i remember correctly, the largest land predator ever was a huge prehistoric goat. omnivorous like today's breeds, too... giant goat riding nomads, following herds of bison to kill and eat? sounds like an interesting place to me the hamster
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 09:42 PM	I must also say some sort of insect, I think the idea of hundreds of warriors charging at the enemy with leaping, flying, multi-legged creatures to be awesome, just imagine a Cadre of warriors mounted (With speical mounting gears and barding) Riding a bunch of scorpions or Praying manti into battle, the mounts could kick a lot of butt as well, as the Scorpion has posioning abilities, so it could weaken the enemies, and the Manti can seriously whoop on people with those claws. Make them Intelligent, and BAM, bad-ass riding mounts. I have to say that while I never really considered this before, I rather like the idea - but in a different context. Not for the culture that I mentioned before, but for one I'm placing elsewhere. Pseudo-Babylonian sorta...something of a Dark Sun feel to it. Dark Sun didn't have much in the way of mammals outside of the humanoid races. A lot of the lifeforms were either insectile or reptilian to some degree. Most of their domesticated animals fell into those categories. They had large riding insects called kanks. But then again, the whole Dark Sun setting pretty much bore no resemblance to anything in standard D&D, so it's a little easier to accept the alien aspects when EVERYTHING is alien. But I kinda like the idea of that other culture perhaps having an elite cavalry of some sort mounted on giant insects. Scorpions would be cool, if only one could find a way to toss a saddle on it and keep the rider clear of the stinger so it could still be used in battle. Hmmmm... Thanks for the idea! I like it. :D
pres_man 01-26-05, 10:02 PM	Is your problem with the horse it self or with its stats. If you think the stats are fine, but don't like the idea of horses, just change it to say ...Mooses?... Meese?...just a second... right moose (plural of moose is moose). Problem solved. Also be careful, bipeds can't carry as much as quadrapeds.
Vanigo 01-26-05, 10:06 PM	Are they actually statted out? Or are you talking about the dire elk thing somebody else mentioned being in Frostburn? What kind of speed are we talking? CR? I know I'll have to tweak it somewhat anyways if I have to advance it...just curious... Yeah, they're statted out. Megaloceroses - the dire elk things - have 6 HD and are CR 4. They've only got a speed of 40, but they can carry up to 1,200 pounds - twice what a heavy horse can carry.
shadowpraxis 01-26-05, 10:19 PM	Is your problem with the horse it self or with its stats. If you think the stats are fine, but don't like the idea of horses, just change it to say ...Mooses?... Meese?...just a second... right moose (plural of moose is moose). Problem solved. Also be careful, bipeds can't carry as much as quadrapeds. The problem is with the horse itself, not the stats. Horses, while useful and all that, are about as interesting as mayonaise on white bread. :D I'm going to have some variant horses from an old 1st Ed (or was it 2nd? I need to pull it out and look for certain) Dragon Magazine to replace regular horses for the rest of the world, but I wanted a specialized, non-horse mount that's going to be integral to a specific culture in my game world. I know this thread has rambled on a bit, but there's a post somewhere on page 1 where I explain the culture a little better to help clear it up...well, at least ATTEMPT to clear it up. And yeah, I'm aware of the quadruped weight issue. I'm trying to stick to them, if only for that reason. Although the bipedal, modified pseudo-chocobo is probably in the top five frontrunners right now...
Rapida 01-26-05, 11:00 PM	You could have them ride Draggonels from the Draconomicon.
TigerWolfe 01-26-05, 11:07 PM	Have you ever read dinotopia if you have maybe something like the skybax riders from the book. Those would be so cool.
Shas'O 01-27-05, 01:05 AM	I have to say that while I never really considered this before, I rather like the idea - but in a different context. Not for the culture that I mentioned before, but for one I'm placing elsewhere. Pseudo-Babylonian sorta...something of a Dark Sun feel to it. Dark Sun didn't have much in the way of mammals outside of the humanoid races. A lot of the lifeforms were either insectile or reptilian to some degree. Most of their domesticated animals fell into those categories. They had large riding insects called kanks. But then again, the whole Dark Sun setting pretty much bore no resemblance to anything in standard D&D, so it's a little easier to accept the alien aspects when EVERYTHING is alien. But I kinda like the idea of that other culture perhaps having an elite cavalry of some sort mounted on giant insects. Scorpions would be cool, if only one could find a way to toss a saddle on it and keep the rider clear of the stinger so it could still be used in battle. Hmmmm... Thanks for the idea! I like it. :D 'Tis Why I said Special mounting gears and Barding, and lets take a look at the combat ability of the Large vermin types Giant Stags: First of all, they have a terrific Hit die for Vermin, but they move pretty slow at 20 feet a square, but they have a base of 19 AC, which can get higher from Special barding, and the 4d6+9 Bite is powerful, and it gets a whopping +10 on its to hit roll, which is great, and it can Trample for 2d8+3. its wisdom and Charisma are fairly high, give it an int of 2-3, and you have a very scary looking, very fearsome special elite Mount. Giant Manti:Not as combat impressive as a Beetle, but it can FLY, and has improved grab, saddle up a couple of archers on them, and a flying, grabbing platoon becomes a very scary reality, launching arrows into the fray, as the manti grab soldiers and bite them, and generally harrass them. Giant Wasps:flyers with 60 feet good manuv, not as much damage as the other two contenders, but that posion ability can do some damage if done right, after all, what use are warriors who can't react fast enough? Large sized Centipedes:These guys aren't as strong as the others yet again, but with a speed of a horse and the ability to climb, they can easily become the standard mounts of the average calvary, and if you load them to the brim with lets say.... Special barding that has spikes all over it, what formations wouldn't break when spiked monsters crash into their ranks? Large sized scorpions:good HD, 50 ft speed, great attacks, posion, constricting, tremersense to detect ambushes, and these are another viable choice for average mounts. Large sized spiders:A cross between Centipedes, and scorpions. ------------------ Of course, this only takes into situation for combat, since I do not know much of your worlds history, but still, they can be a very, very unique mount choice, with their special abilities and appearence, they could be a fairly original mount, Drow in FR have done lizards, and the Halflings in Eberron have dinos, why not give these poor vermin a go? Give them an Int score, and you have a very awesome creation in the making.
oberyn 01-27-05, 02:38 AM	how about something like a dire springbok normaly a springbok would be medium size but a dire one could be big, its got horns that are dang near as straight and shap as spear heads. it can run fast and far. and as an added bonus it can jump about 20-30 feet straight up. no running involved now a dire one would jump about 60 feet without a rider and 40 with a rider id imagine.... not to mention just imagine having an enemy charge your castle walls.... and then jump OVER THEM! :eek: . i would imagine base speed at 50 for a dire one. it might be a bit hard to stay on one but with specialized saddles as to cradle the riders front and back and strap them to it i think it could be done and dont even talk to me about enemy mounted archers who jump into your towers and shoot at you.
Nytmare 01-27-05, 09:20 AM	The problem is with the horse itself, not the stats. Horses, while useful and all that, are about as interesting as mayonaise on white bread. :D Maybe, instead of going through all this work, you should just spend a week hanging out on a horse ranch. ;)
Vanigo 01-27-05, 07:40 PM	Or, if you want something really unique: Runner Tortises. It'd take some work statting them up - they'd need higher speed than normal tortises, of course, and they should probably have less natural armor so as to save weight, among other things...
Ghich 01-27-05, 09:11 PM	I think you should use deer with fangs instead of antlers. They actually exist but are not something anyone will expect.
twad 01-27-05, 09:17 PM	make them ride (big) Zerglings.. or.. spiders.. or.. Apes... or.. some insects .. like the ant.. or a butterfly.. or a firefly.. take a dictionnary and look at the pictures, you'l find soon.
zuhan70 01-27-05, 10:58 PM	Giraffes... ....OR, some kind of enslaved and brow beaten ogres. ....OR, Giant Dragonflies. ....OR, Animated wooden chairs ....OK, I think I should stop now. :twitch:
Snommelp 01-28-05, 01:17 AM	On the world of Arr-Kelaan, they ride large cats with six legs. Can't recall off the top of my head what they're called... anyways, on Arr-Kelaan horses are rare, practically extinct. Just an idea.
Saihtam 01-28-05, 06:47 AM	Why not let them use primates as mounts : monkeys, apes, halflings, ... They're fast, agile and they pack a punch when needed in combat and most important : they can throw sticks and bananas. (well, ... except the halflings off course)
Lionhearted 01-28-05, 07:12 AM	AaEG? I feel rather stupid for not placing the acronym. :help: ever heard of Arms and Equipment Guide? AaEG
Lionhearted 01-28-05, 07:14 AM	[QUOTE=e-z0r] *]Bulette? [ QUOTE=e-z0r] trolls riding bullettes RESPECT :D
D+1 01-28-05, 11:32 AM	Well rather than equines you go use: Bovines - cattle of some kind, bulls, bison, yaks, or a fantasy variation thereof Canines - demon dogs, war wolves, wargs, blink dogs, hell hounds, aurumvorax Felines - lions, tigers, displacer beasts, giant snow leapords Ursine - bears, oh my Irvine - but that's a city in California Arachnids - giant tarantulas or wolf spiders Insects - giant grasshoppers, beetles, dragonflies, ants, centipedes Avians - sparrows, hawks, eagles, rocs, stirges, ostrich, emu, rhea Dinosaurs - take your pick Fantasy - dragons, wyverns, perytons, griffons, hippogriffs, pegasi, unicorns, vulture lions, owlbears. How about those landstrider things from Dark Crystal? Your problem is not that you don't have choices.
Thanatos02 01-28-05, 11:36 AM	Well, if you haven't decided on a mount yet, I guess I'll throw some out there. After reading the whole thing, nobody has suggested Dire Riding Dogs. Sure, a regular riding dog is way too small for a normal human to ride, but luckily, thanks to the magic of the "Dire" aspect, we can make 'em big with no problem at all! Now that they're Large creatures, I imagine that a dog would be a fantastic mount. Loyal, dangerous, pack instincts, and decent endurance and power. Sure wolves may have been done to death, but dogs have a way different feel to 'em, IMO. The other thing I considered was a kind of flightless, unintelligent dragon-thing. Sure you've made it up, but it seems reasonable to imagine that wizards and trainers may have specially bred this creature from a larger, more vicious drake specifically to serve as a good mount. It could have any property you wished, really, and a neat idea would be to breed them to have specific scale colors (or paint and gloss them) to be recognizeable in battle. If you don't know where to go, just follow the red lizard leading the charge!
Palin the Wizard 01-28-05, 12:42 PM	As far as I can see, horses would fit your every criteria except that you find them boring. If you look at the horse back when humans first met it, I doubt it was that great as a mount--nothing compared to what it is today, at least. We've pretty much forced them to become what they are. Zebras, for example, while extremely similar to horses, are too small to function as mounts. So go for a different kind of race. Bovines, for example. Someone suggested bisons, I second that. A thousand years of selective breeding with bisons, and they would be extremely suitable for mounts. ;) Otherwise, go all fantasy, as others have said. Griffons would be extremely cool, but so would wyverns or hippogriffs. If course, if all else fails, you could just take do intelligent horses. Those aren't boring, are they? ;)
FnordBear 01-29-05, 06:54 PM	Well having stumbled on this thread I'll offer my two CP. Have you considered a Giant version of smaller animals? I for one could see some one bravely riding in to combat on say a giant grasshopper, you could get some really interesting effects then.. Charge, Jump over the pikemen, lance the archers... Also soemthing to consider, you mentioned in one of your origional posts bonding with the animal in early childhood, this being the case if this is a human culture with a human lifespan you may have to consider a fnatasy animal of some kind as humans are notoriously long lived compared to some animals (with exception towards things we know live a long time like reptiles and elephants that dont get poached) I still stand on my giant grasshopper idea. Perhaps call it a Prairehopper....
Deekin 01-29-05, 08:39 PM	I say again CHOCOBOS!! They can be cool and vicious. Just look a them http://www.icecavern.net/~qirien/final_fantasy/ffx/chocobos.jpg http://www.tryn.furtopia.org/artwork/chocobo.jpg Ah! google image search, you serve me well.
e-z0r 01-29-05, 08:52 PM	Someone should make a plausible looking creature based on the chocobo. One that doesn't look so cute.
oberyn 01-29-05, 10:33 PM	http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/fanq/a/d/adnama3/chocobo_king_black_legs.jpg how about that bugger?
Gilean 01-30-05, 09:40 AM	Scorpions
e-z0r 01-30-05, 11:33 AM	http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/fanq/a/d/adnama3/chocobo_king_black_legs.jpg how about that bugger? Better. Still, the chocobo head and body design is what I'm not liking. I'd make the body more sleek, you know, to give it a sort of faster and more agressive look. The head the same way I guess.
Aethamyr 01-30-05, 12:33 PM	For that kind of chocobo, try to find some of the Final Fantasy 12 trailers. They've got scenes with some pretty awesome looking war-chocobos that might be better than the more cartoony ones you're used to.
arvis 02-02-05, 08:25 PM	http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/tauntaun/
Asta Kask 02-03-05, 03:16 AM	http://hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca/flightless/diatryma.htm
Mad Man 02-03-05, 04:35 AM	I apologise if this has already been mentioned but what about large goat type creatures. They would be fast, probably lots of stamina and would be ideal for rocky areas (though i think they could go any where as long as you think about it hard enough). It may work but meh its your world.
NehpetsTtocs 02-03-05, 08:17 AM	I really have nothing to add to this thread, but I will say that I do like to use common place items and animals with my characters. I get tired of the almighty hero descended from Gods or Kings who rides into battle atop a basilisk or a unicorn. I like the idea of a high level fighter who just rides a regular old warhorse into battle; yeah, the horse is probably going to die, but I admire the gumption. I don't know, I've played in so many campaigns where the heroes had these bright/flashy weapons, etc. If you ride to battle in a dragon, or show up to a duel with a flaming sword, wouldn't you think that would draw some attention to the character? Certainly it's going to frighten some people, but you would think that it would also draw unwanted attention. Somebody is going to see that item, creature or whatever, and decide that he or she just has to have it. The same way with very expensive cars; somebody's going to want one and try to take it. That said, it's always an individual thing. If you like to ride exotic creatures, then do it; if you prefer a pony or a horse, then do that.
Dark Stryke 02-03-05, 10:24 AM	I'm not sure if any of this has been suggested yet, since I was way too lazy to read every post, but why not look to other fantasy for your riding creature? I mean, you're already looking at Final Fantasy, so why not Magic:The Gathering or something? Example: In one of the Magic books, The main character summons a giant, six legged gecko to be his mount. Its feet secrete an adhesive substance, so it could stick to trees easily. It was crazily good at jumpig through forests. It was also more intelligent than normal riding animals. It would be an interesting twist to have mounts that leapt from tree to tree, rahter than plodded along the ground. This works best if your people are forest dwellers though. Or: Has anybody read "The Belgaried"? No? Go read it, right now! ... Done? Okay. In that series, there are carnivorous horses known as Hrulgrin. They are stronger and faster than normal horses, and have fangs and claws instead of hoofs and um, teeth. Of course, they were also insane. You could say that these people, with there emphatic link, were the only ones able to tame Hrulgrin. Now, you just have to remember that these things can't be left in the same pasture as any of the other animals, cause they'll eat 'em! This would probably make meat a far more valuable commodity in that country. Raising herd animals would be much more important, since everyone and their mount has to eat one. Anyway, that was just some food for thought.
MrkGrismer 02-03-05, 03:19 PM	Horses boring? If you get a chance read some of the Horseclans books. But, to put my 2 cents in on alternate mounts: Cockroach Swarm
The Shaman 02-03-05, 11:43 PM	The last fantasy setting I designed had no horses native to the continent where the action was taking place. They used goat-carts and ox-carts and pack dogs (great big husky things) and dog-chariots instead. For another setting I was considering caribou/reindeer and bison as mounts/dray animals. I like the sloth-like animal idea.
Lord Gwydion 02-04-05, 08:37 AM	One of my former DMs used goats as mounts for kobolds in his campaign. A larger size one (dire or not) would work for humans. I had a world where rhinos were used by one kingdom for war-beasts, but not for general mounts. Reading through this thread, I thought of a few other animals, but most have been mentioned (moose, bear, etc.). One that hasn't been mentioned is giant frogs. They might not have the best overland endurance (you're going to have trouble finding something comparable to horses in this regard), but their jumping ability would be awesome in combat. If you want fantasy stuff that isn't TOO far out there, why not just find a good template to apply to horses (or deer or water buffalo or elk or whatever) to spice them up? Write up the stats like a normal creature, never tell the players that this is just what you get when you apply template X to animal Y, and they'll never know.
godslayer57 02-04-05, 01:19 PM	Seeing as you want them to be riden from when they are old enough to be ridden I would go for dragons. They are strong and fast. They could be chosen by the rider when they have just hatched. :dragon:
PhaedrusXY 02-04-05, 01:29 PM	Better. Still, the chocobo head and body design is what I'm not liking. I'd make the body more sleek, you know, to give it a sort of faster and more agressive look. The head the same way I guess.http://uo.stratics.com/database/view.php?db_content=hunters&id=175
Nardo Polo 02-05-05, 02:13 AM	Okay, a couple of points: A) OP finds horses boring. B) Horses are a near perfect creature for the applications to which they are applied. Strength, endurance, speed, and versatility are all largely optimized in equine breeds. C) No other creature, whether real or imagined _exactly_ matches the horses capabilities without seriously throwing off the balance of a setting. Possible solution: Makes horses more interesting to the OP. Suggestion: Elemental Horses. Specific Elemental/Horse mixes for specific applications within the culture. Examples: Rock Horse Elementals: Strength and haulage applications. The work horse of the elelmental crosses if you will. Fire Horse Elementals: Ridden into battles. Quick, deadly, and vicious. War horse replacements. Wind Horse Elementals: Speed and distance, scouting and message bearing. Just a few examples. You can expand on these quite easily. Also, certain crosses present certain problems, Fire Horses would require special tack and harnesses, something which this culture may specialize in. Developing the background and equipments they use for each cross will add depth to the culture. Perhaps the delineation of class within the culture depends on what type of horse each person has specialized in working with. Perhaps a child bonds with a specific type of horse and this helps determine his future life within the community. Anyway, something to think about at least.