"newbie" rules and advancement questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

"newbie" rules and advancement questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Callon
09-08-04, 05:10 PM First... the easy question... for some reason (I'm slow?) I'm having trouble understanding what the spell Mage Armor stacks with. So just to be sure... it's a deflection bonus right? So it should stack with regular player armor. Does it stack with bracers of armor? Rings of protection?

Now, the more complicated one.

Is there any way to get more classes with your levels spread out without taking a big exp penalty? I ask because I have a level 4/3 elven fighter/ranger. I regret taking the ranger to start with on that class because I want the versatility of having bonus feats. I'm thinking of starting over to play a pure fighter, but I don't game often enough and my games don't advance fast enough for that to be an easy prospect. It will take a long time to get back to character level 7. In the far flung future (for me) I suppose I might make epic levels. At that point can you take an extra base class without the nasty exp penalties? Looking at the epic handbook board here, I see people talk about L100 characters having many different classes and wondered how they did that without major penalties. I know I can take prestige classes without a penalty, but they don't give the extra feats like I'd want and in some cases I just want some base class ability.

Also, is it even feasible for the character to be good at both archery and dual wielding? I do some of both right now, but I see that as being a problem in the future as the game seems to reward specializing at one thing much more, maybe even becoming necessary as you gain more levels to overcome higher ACs and such. Trying to do both is a big part of why I'm looking to get more bonus feats and wishing I'd gone straight fighter instead of starting with ranger. I may take a level of deepwood sniper (i think it is, or was it order of the bow initiate?) to get keen arrows.

I want to dual wield but in my opinion made the mistake of doing weapon focus long sword. I use a short sword in the offhand since it's a light weapon. If I add weapon specialization, and especially once I can add greater focus/specialization, I would have been much better off to do Focus short sword and used two short swords instead of 1 long and 1 short. Too bad you can't change feats. So that's like a wasted feat now. grrr... it's such a pain to make the right decisions from level 1 up for a character.
Callon
09-08-04, 05:18 PM oh yeah, the other easy question... my 3rd edition DM guide seems poorly worded when explaining encounter levels.

I understand that encounter levels are based on a party of 4 characters at that level and EL is the total difficulty of the encounter when one combines all the enemies with their different CRs (not just adding them together, obviously). But then... if the party runs into an enemy level 5 fighter, just one, is the EL of that encounter a 5 since the level 5 fighter would have a CR of 5? That just doesn't make sense to me since I thought an EL of 5 was supposed to be a challenging encounter for a party of four level 5 characters. Fighting one level 5 enemy wouldn't be much of a challenge at all though. What am I missing here?

Just found an exp calculator online and it still seems confusing.
http://68.63.117.249/elmain.html
Enter a party of four level 6 characters versus 2 CR6 creatures (say... 2 level 6 fighters). It calculates the EL as 8 based on what the book says about adding 2 to the EL each time you double the number of creatures. It says the encounter is very difficulty, pull out all the stops. But wait... it's four level 6s in the party versus two level 6 enemies. How is that "very difficult"? Am I misunderstanding the CR of a level 6 fighter? Should it be 6 or not?
Egres
09-08-04, 06:41 PM First... the easy question... for some reason (I'm slow?) I'm having trouble understanding what the spell Mage Armor stacks with. So just to be sure... it's a deflection bonus right? So it should stack with regular player armor. Does it stack with bracers of armor? Rings of protection?
Mage Armor gives you an Armor bonus,and then it doesn't stack with your Bracers of Armor,but it stacks with your Rings of Protection.

Is there any way to get more classes with your levels spread out without taking a big exp penalty?
Yeah.
Take the Thrall of Demogorgon Prestige Class and you will be able to multiclass freely. :D

Trying to do both is a big part of why I'm looking to get more bonus feats and wishing I'd gone straight fighter instead of starting with ranger. I may take a level of deepwood sniper (i think it is, or was it order of the bow initiate?) to get keen arrows.

You are talking about the Deepwood Sniper.
Callon
09-08-04, 08:12 PM Mage Armor gives you an Armor bonus,and then it doesn't stack with your Bracers of Armor,but it stacks with your Rings of Protection.

So then it stacks with basic armor, but does it stack with say, the +2 bonus on +2 chainmail?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
09-08-04, 09:22 PM So then it stacks with basic armor, but does it stack with say, the +2 bonus on +2 chainmail?

It does not stack with basic armor, nor does it stack with the enhancement bonus on armor.
KismetRose
09-08-04, 10:02 PM Also, is it even feasible for the character to be good at both archery and dual wielding?
Sure it is. If they're a ranger, they get their feats to help them dual-wield if they don't wear heavy armor, which means they should have a high Dexterity if you're worried about their armor class. The better Dex you have, the better an archer you'll be, since ranged attacks are based on Dexterity. It all fits nicely.

I'm thinking of starting over to play a pure fighter, but I don't game often enough and my games don't advance fast enough for that to be an easy prospect. It will take a long time to get back to character level 7.
Could you make an arrangement with your DM to start off a pure fighter at one level below the party's level? That won't be so bad off.
Fixxxer
09-08-04, 11:00 PM So then it stacks with basic armor, but does it stack with say, the +2 bonus on +2 chainmail?

It doesn't stack with basic armor, either, since basic armor provides an "armor" bonus to your AC. Bonuses with the same name don't stack (except for dodge bonuses). It would, however, stack with any natural armor bonus, deflection bonus, shield bonus, etc.

Hey, KismetRose. I'm very honored to be quoted in your signature...but...umm...you sort of mispelled my name. :)
KismetRose
09-08-04, 11:32 PM Hey, KismetRose. I'm very honored to be quoted in your signature...but...umm...you sort of mispelled my name. :)
Not anymore. =)
Sorry, but I had to steal that one. And now I will stop hijacking the thread.
Asta Kask
09-09-04, 07:17 AM In the far flung future (for me) I suppose I might make epic levels. At that point can you take an extra base class without the nasty exp penalties? Looking at the epic handbook board here, I see people talk about L100 characters having many different classes and wondered how they did that without major penalties.

They "cheat". I doubt if anyone ever has played a character from level 1 to level 100. So, what happens is the DM says "we're gonna play epic rules, construct a party of level 80 characters, etc., etc." and they have a set of level 80 characters. Frequently with so many classes that they lose experience when they kill something...
Callon
09-09-04, 02:57 PM ah, ok. I figured the thread about the party led by a L140 character was getting pretty ridiculous in terms of level gain. If gaining a level is supposed to take around 3 gaming sessions of a few hours each (that's roughly how I plan it anyway when I'm GMing), I can't imagine someone getting together with friends and playing enough to get 140 levels plus any levels that had to be repeated due to death. So I guess if ya cheat up the level, it's not surprising to bypass some multiclass penalties too.

Prestige classes can be taken without those penalties, but given that I guess it's no surprise that they don't seem to offer as many benefits as having another base class.

As for the mage armor, I bet my party's monk is pretty grumpy about not having a wizard around. That spell wouldn't help most melee classes, but for monks it would be huge. hmm... I wonder how many monks grab a level of wizard to get it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callon 09-08-04, 05:10 PM	First... the easy question... for some reason (I'm slow?) I'm having trouble understanding what the spell Mage Armor stacks with. So just to be sure... it's a deflection bonus right? So it should stack with regular player armor. Does it stack with bracers of armor? Rings of protection? Now, the more complicated one. Is there any way to get more classes with your levels spread out without taking a big exp penalty? I ask because I have a level 4/3 elven fighter/ranger. I regret taking the ranger to start with on that class because I want the versatility of having bonus feats. I'm thinking of starting over to play a pure fighter, but I don't game often enough and my games don't advance fast enough for that to be an easy prospect. It will take a long time to get back to character level 7. In the far flung future (for me) I suppose I might make epic levels. At that point can you take an extra base class without the nasty exp penalties? Looking at the epic handbook board here, I see people talk about L100 characters having many different classes and wondered how they did that without major penalties. I know I can take prestige classes without a penalty, but they don't give the extra feats like I'd want and in some cases I just want some base class ability. Also, is it even feasible for the character to be good at both archery and dual wielding? I do some of both right now, but I see that as being a problem in the future as the game seems to reward specializing at one thing much more, maybe even becoming necessary as you gain more levels to overcome higher ACs and such. Trying to do both is a big part of why I'm looking to get more bonus feats and wishing I'd gone straight fighter instead of starting with ranger. I may take a level of deepwood sniper (i think it is, or was it order of the bow initiate?) to get keen arrows. I want to dual wield but in my opinion made the mistake of doing weapon focus long sword. I use a short sword in the offhand since it's a light weapon. If I add weapon specialization, and especially once I can add greater focus/specialization, I would have been much better off to do Focus short sword and used two short swords instead of 1 long and 1 short. Too bad you can't change feats. So that's like a wasted feat now. grrr... it's such a pain to make the right decisions from level 1 up for a character.
Callon 09-08-04, 05:18 PM	oh yeah, the other easy question... my 3rd edition DM guide seems poorly worded when explaining encounter levels. I understand that encounter levels are based on a party of 4 characters at that level and EL is the total difficulty of the encounter when one combines all the enemies with their different CRs (not just adding them together, obviously). But then... if the party runs into an enemy level 5 fighter, just one, is the EL of that encounter a 5 since the level 5 fighter would have a CR of 5? That just doesn't make sense to me since I thought an EL of 5 was supposed to be a challenging encounter for a party of four level 5 characters. Fighting one level 5 enemy wouldn't be much of a challenge at all though. What am I missing here? Just found an exp calculator online and it still seems confusing. http://68.63.117.249/elmain.html Enter a party of four level 6 characters versus 2 CR6 creatures (say... 2 level 6 fighters). It calculates the EL as 8 based on what the book says about adding 2 to the EL each time you double the number of creatures. It says the encounter is very difficulty, pull out all the stops. But wait... it's four level 6s in the party versus two level 6 enemies. How is that "very difficult"? Am I misunderstanding the CR of a level 6 fighter? Should it be 6 or not?
Egres 09-08-04, 06:41 PM	First... the easy question... for some reason (I'm slow?) I'm having trouble understanding what the spell Mage Armor stacks with. So just to be sure... it's a deflection bonus right? So it should stack with regular player armor. Does it stack with bracers of armor? Rings of protection? Mage Armor gives you an Armor bonus,and then it doesn't stack with your Bracers of Armor,but it stacks with your Rings of Protection. Is there any way to get more classes with your levels spread out without taking a big exp penalty? Yeah. Take the Thrall of Demogorgon Prestige Class and you will be able to multiclass freely. :D Trying to do both is a big part of why I'm looking to get more bonus feats and wishing I'd gone straight fighter instead of starting with ranger. I may take a level of deepwood sniper (i think it is, or was it order of the bow initiate?) to get keen arrows. You are talking about the Deepwood Sniper.
Callon 09-08-04, 08:12 PM	Mage Armor gives you an Armor bonus,and then it doesn't stack with your Bracers of Armor,but it stacks with your Rings of Protection. So then it stacks with basic armor, but does it stack with say, the +2 bonus on +2 chainmail?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 09-08-04, 09:22 PM	So then it stacks with basic armor, but does it stack with say, the +2 bonus on +2 chainmail? It does not stack with basic armor, nor does it stack with the enhancement bonus on armor.
KismetRose 09-08-04, 10:02 PM	Also, is it even feasible for the character to be good at both archery and dual wielding? Sure it is. If they're a ranger, they get their feats to help them dual-wield if they don't wear heavy armor, which means they should have a high Dexterity if you're worried about their armor class. The better Dex you have, the better an archer you'll be, since ranged attacks are based on Dexterity. It all fits nicely. I'm thinking of starting over to play a pure fighter, but I don't game often enough and my games don't advance fast enough for that to be an easy prospect. It will take a long time to get back to character level 7. Could you make an arrangement with your DM to start off a pure fighter at one level below the party's level? That won't be so bad off.
Fixxxer 09-08-04, 11:00 PM	So then it stacks with basic armor, but does it stack with say, the +2 bonus on +2 chainmail? It doesn't stack with basic armor, either, since basic armor provides an "armor" bonus to your AC. Bonuses with the same name don't stack (except for dodge bonuses). It would, however, stack with any natural armor bonus, deflection bonus, shield bonus, etc. Hey, KismetRose. I'm very honored to be quoted in your signature...but...umm...you sort of mispelled my name. :)
KismetRose 09-08-04, 11:32 PM	Hey, KismetRose. I'm very honored to be quoted in your signature...but...umm...you sort of mispelled my name. :) Not anymore. =) Sorry, but I had to steal that one. And now I will stop hijacking the thread.
Asta Kask 09-09-04, 07:17 AM	In the far flung future (for me) I suppose I might make epic levels. At that point can you take an extra base class without the nasty exp penalties? Looking at the epic handbook board here, I see people talk about L100 characters having many different classes and wondered how they did that without major penalties. They "cheat". I doubt if anyone ever has played a character from level 1 to level 100. So, what happens is the DM says "we're gonna play epic rules, construct a party of level 80 characters, etc., etc." and they have a set of level 80 characters. Frequently with so many classes that they lose experience when they kill something...
Callon 09-09-04, 02:57 PM	ah, ok. I figured the thread about the party led by a L140 character was getting pretty ridiculous in terms of level gain. If gaining a level is supposed to take around 3 gaming sessions of a few hours each (that's roughly how I plan it anyway when I'm GMing), I can't imagine someone getting together with friends and playing enough to get 140 levels plus any levels that had to be repeated due to death. So I guess if ya cheat up the level, it's not surprising to bypass some multiclass penalties too. Prestige classes can be taken without those penalties, but given that I guess it's no surprise that they don't seem to offer as many benefits as having another base class. As for the mage armor, I bet my party's monk is pretty grumpy about not having a wizard around. That spell wouldn't help most melee classes, but for monks it would be huge. hmm... I wonder how many monks grab a level of wizard to get it.