"real" magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

"real" magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
glorfon
07-25-07, 10:47 PM I was at consevapedia, the conservative/creationist wikipedia. I wanted to see what they had to say about DnD. Dispite being badly writen, as most of them are, it was not particularily offensive. It gave a breif synopsys of DnD and kept all acusations in the controversy/critisisms sections. In there it said that He-who-must-not-be-named* said at a certain level players could learn real magic spells.

I was wondering if this is based in anything or if he was spouting non-sense(more likely). Obviosly I don't think there is real magic what I mean is was there ever a book which gave elaborate descriptions of how your character would cast certain spells, which he then interpreted as instructions about how to cast spells in real life.

Before this get's locked I want to say that I'm not discusiong he-who-shall-not-be-named, I'm asking about whether or not a certain old book existed.

*for those of you who don't know who I'm talking about, I'm refering to >name removed<. As I understand it discusion about him is banned on theese forums.
Sim_antix
07-25-07, 10:50 PM Before this get's locked I want to say that I'm not discusiong he-who-shall-not-be-named

Who said my name?
DrowBattlemind
07-25-07, 10:55 PM Not really, that was pretty much one of "JC"'s fevered, insane-o ramblings about the AD&D Players Handbook (1st Edition, in case anyone cares.)

I rate that (and him) pretty much in the same category as that whacked-out housewife down south who keeps screaming that Harry Potter books teach children how to do 'witchcraft', despite the fact that she (quite proudly) has never read, opened, or even picked up any of the Harry Potter books to see if she was correct.
glorfon
07-25-07, 11:00 PM That lady scares me, but to be fair since I started reading the last book I've been having dreams in which I cast wingardium leviosa (wich levitates object but oh-well) and fly around. *sigh*
High Octane
07-25-07, 11:02 PM No.

Hell we never even find out what the verbal or somantic components are. All we know is they can't be done well in restrictive clothing and it lets the fighter next to us get a free stab.

I suspect it's a lot like ballet.
Vharuck
07-26-07, 02:19 AM Where's Tempest? He has a link to a post (pretty sure it's his own) that reveals arcane magic (especially in the first edition of D&D) to be nothing more than tongue-in-cheek jokes and scientific parlor tricks.

Real magic it is not.
Shiftkitty
07-26-07, 08:37 AM The "real" magic of D&D is that it can turn a boring day or evening into a rowdy free-for-all of dice and medieval fantasy insults flying through the air while a bunch of peope have fun.

The "real" magic of Harry Potter is that it got hundreds of thousands of kids and adults away from their TVs and video games and into libraries. A magic book indeed!
Sothar_Borealis
07-26-07, 09:18 AM I can't help but wonder what is the deal on this forum with this JC person? are you referring to the religious figure or someone else? Also I would like to point out that I just generally curious so please don't drop the Hammer of Mordin on me....
Shiftkitty
07-26-07, 10:20 AM Jack Chick produced a series of hate-mongering little comic books handed out to young impressionable children to recruit into the ranks of the Four-Square Gospel Church. I don't know if other churches used these things, but they are easily comparable to the propaganda produced by the Nazis to twist children's minds into a form more favorable toward Hitler. I was subject to these things, but found them laughable until I met someone who took them as truth. Scary, scary, scary!

It's my understanding that we're not supposed to link to any of those comics, but I'm not entirely sure why.
Jagyr Ebonwood
07-26-07, 11:40 AM The "real" magic of D&D is that it can turn a boring day or evening into a rowdy free-for-all of dice and medieval fantasy insults flying through the air while a bunch of people have fun.

The "real" magic of Harry Potter is that it got hundreds of thousands of kids and adults away from their TVs and video games and into libraries. A magic book indeed!

Preach on, brutha. :thumbsup:
CryoSilver
07-26-07, 12:00 PM Of all the hundreds of books I've read, the ONLY books to propose that humans can actually invoke magic with tangible effects and present methods by which to do so are the Bible and Satanic Bible.

Mind you, I have not read any books about Wicca (yet).
ElberethSilverleaf
07-26-07, 08:57 PM As much as we would like reality to be otherwise there is no such thing as magic, miracles, witchcraft, vampires, undead, ghosts etc. Curses, prayers, blessings, and faith-healing just don't work. It is fun however to RP in a world where such wonders exist. :)
ArcTan
07-26-07, 09:03 PM I was at consevapedia, the conservative/creationist wikipedia. I wanted to see what they had to say about DnD. Dispite being badly writen, as most of them are, it was not particularily offensive. It gave a breif synopsys of DnD and kept all acusations in the controversy/critisisms sections. In there it said that He-who-must-not-be-named* said at a certain level players could learn real magic spells.

If that were true, then presumably D&D players could use their magic powers to obtain the great wealth, girlfriends and foolproof acne cures that prove so elusive in real life.
ElberethSilverleaf
07-26-07, 09:12 PM You have that right Arctan! If magic or prayer really worked I would have been a pimpdaddy in high school. lol
Shiftkitty
07-26-07, 09:24 PM Now I'm wondering how many zit-faced, coke bottle glasses-wearing, bad haircut-sporting, stereotypical geekboys are really tall, muscular, tanned studs who just got good enough to learn those "real" spells and morphed into something repulsive just to keep ditzy big-chested cheerleaders from interrupting their games.

Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;)
was_fired
07-26-07, 09:40 PM I can say I'm one such mage. Really I have Godly powers I just choose not to use them in fear of angering the purple skirt wearing consortium... or something. So far I've yet to meet a D&D player that actually believes in magic. I've seen mention of them on threads about creepy gamers, but in person, nada. Odds are the percentage is only slightly higher than among Christians (I count divine healers and their followers as people who believe in magic).
Rustmonster
07-26-07, 10:39 PM Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;)

No, I do not know that. I will NEVER know that.
DrMorganes
07-26-07, 11:03 PM It's my understanding that we're not supposed to link to any of those comics, but I'm not entirely sure why.

Because exposure lends credibility, and giving a crackpot an audience only encourages him.

That and one may quickly see a "slashdot" effect; the shear volume of visitors from this forum could very easily overwhelm his webhost and temporarily bring down his site. Can you imagine the ammunition something like that would give him?!
ElberethSilverleaf
07-26-07, 11:25 PM I remember getting one of those tracts as a kid from someone at school. It was about the TV show "Bewitched". (which I loved, along with "I Dream of Jeannie").
I showed it to my Rabbi and he took it, tore it up and said "Some people have NO sense of humor".
High Octane
07-27-07, 02:19 AM No, I do not know that. I will NEVER know that.

Me either.

*Weeps*
DrowBattlemind
07-27-07, 04:30 AM Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;)

Not unless my wife (who's brunette) dyes her hair blonde. Or brings a real blond home for some not-safe-around-the-gaming-table fun...
Tempest Stormwind
07-27-07, 10:59 AM Hell we never even find out what the verbal or somantic components are. All we know is they can't be done well in restrictive clothing and it lets the fighter next to us get a free stab.

They were, apparently, described in the original edition. I haven't actually read many books from that era (I learned to play the original through discussion), but I do have the original Unearthed Arcana, which went so far as to describe them for every cantrip (it left the other spells alone, mercifully). I actually cite some examples... oh, wait...

Where's Tempest? He has a link to a post (pretty sure it's his own) that reveals arcane magic (especially in the first edition of D&D) to be nothing more than tongue-in-cheek jokes and scientific parlor tricks.

Real magic it is not.

Yeah, this is what I was talking about.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=803718

Starts with post 18, but carries on for a bit in the thread. In short, I'm surprised they didn't specify finger of death as, oh, the infamous "I'm crushing your head!".

There's more modern examples there too, as well, but those sometimes get closer to "sympathetic magic" than just mere jokes. Most of them are horrible puns (haste's component is a great example) and others are just amped-up science-fair gags (Lightning Bolt being the classic one).

Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;)

Black hair, and more likely to be in fishnets and corsets than miniskirts, but yes.

(Oddly, we aren't even involved. She's just both a D&D player and a serious flirt. She and her sister both have matching "Saving Throw Vs. Sexy" tanktops, for instance.)
aotrscommander
07-27-07, 11:35 AM Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;)

Actually, I would hate that, if someone was so insane and/or perverse as to try it (and if I had any earlobes...) Though I think I'd be more revolted, 'cos "I'm not one of those biophylliacs," to quote a charismatic1 sage.

Mind you, that's what natural Con-Drain is for! And carrying a hefty rocket launcher...

We do not touch the Lich, thank you oh so very much, unless we want to loose our life-energy.

1Can't quite bring myself to call him 'wise'
schpeelah
07-27-07, 11:56 AM I've read the guy's articles. He wrote that all spells in dnd are uset in real-world whtichcraft. Do you know of any sect that teaches Fireballs? I want cast Fireballs!!!!!
MHolland
07-27-07, 12:02 PM That guy is a loon, that's all I have to say. I read Dark Dungeons and laughed like crazy. Reading the one about the Catholic church made me laugh even more. After that I got tired of laughing at his idiocy. :D
Zherog
07-27-07, 12:47 PM It's my understanding that we're not supposed to link to any of those comics, but I'm not entirely sure why.

In addition to what the good doctor said... What that man spews from his mouth is hate speech. Any form of hate speech is banned on these forums.
glorfon
07-27-07, 02:47 PM Well, if you can't post the link could some one PM, or E-mail me a link. I hope this doesn't cause a storm of people requesting links.
Holy_Beholder
07-27-07, 02:57 PM I've read the guy's articles. He wrote that all spells in dnd are uset in real-world whtichcraft. Do you know of any sect that teaches Fireballs? I want cast Fireballs!!!!!

Please, Lightning bolts are so much more fun. Not to mention that one psionic power that increases HP and Hardness instantaneously. I can think of a few plates that need that.

But seriously, Jack Crick is uninformed. D&D doesn't teach real witchcraft, as for verbal and somatic components, all that tells us is that we have to say something and move someway. Thats like a car repair manual saying you have to "mess with tools" and "look for stuff" Its not exactly precise instructions. On the bright side he is better at math than Patricia Pulling(you don't add percentages of different groups to figure out the whole. 4% of adults and 4% o teenagers is less than 4% of people(,missing really young kids and stuff), not 8%)
Bruunwald
07-27-07, 03:13 PM Movies where every person in the whole theater was rivetted and completely wrapped up emotionally in the characters on the screen.

Concerts where, during a quiet song, you could hear a pin drop between the pauses in it, the music was so incredible.

There is real magic in the world. But it's hardly evil.
aotrscommander
07-27-07, 04:05 PM Movies where every person in the whole theater was rivetted and completely wrapped up emotionally in the characters on the screen.

Concerts where, during a quiet song, you could hear a pin drop between the pauses in it, the music was so incredible.

There is real magic in the world. But it's hardly evil.

Yet, sadly, some people on the lunatic fringe do believe that it is. Humans worry me some days.
ORC_Tuhteth
07-27-07, 04:19 PM To answer your question: No, there has never been a game book of any sort that detailed the actual incantations or somatic components necessary to cast a spell. There are only two things I can think of that could possibly be interpreted that way: (1) Listing material components (e.g. bat guano), and (2) for certain protection spells, the note that the character draws a circle on the ground to indicate the border of the effect.

Now, for obvious reasons, this thread is closed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
glorfon 07-25-07, 10:47 PM	I was at consevapedia, the conservative/creationist wikipedia. I wanted to see what they had to say about DnD. Dispite being badly writen, as most of them are, it was not particularily offensive. It gave a breif synopsys of DnD and kept all acusations in the controversy/critisisms sections. In there it said that He-who-must-not-be-named* said at a certain level players could learn real magic spells. I was wondering if this is based in anything or if he was spouting non-sense(more likely). Obviosly I don't think there is real magic what I mean is was there ever a book which gave elaborate descriptions of how your character would cast certain spells, which he then interpreted as instructions about how to cast spells in real life. Before this get's locked I want to say that I'm not discusiong he-who-shall-not-be-named, I'm asking about whether or not a certain old book existed. *for those of you who don't know who I'm talking about, I'm refering to >name removed<. As I understand it discusion about him is banned on theese forums.
Sim_antix 07-25-07, 10:50 PM	Before this get's locked I want to say that I'm not discusiong he-who-shall-not-be-named Who said my name?
DrowBattlemind 07-25-07, 10:55 PM	Not really, that was pretty much one of "JC"'s fevered, insane-o ramblings about the AD&D Players Handbook (1st Edition, in case anyone cares.) I rate that (and him) pretty much in the same category as that whacked-out housewife down south who keeps screaming that Harry Potter books teach children how to do 'witchcraft', despite the fact that she (quite proudly) has never read, opened, or even picked up any of the Harry Potter books to see if she was correct.
glorfon 07-25-07, 11:00 PM	That lady scares me, but to be fair since I started reading the last book I've been having dreams in which I cast wingardium leviosa (wich levitates object but oh-well) and fly around. sigh
High Octane 07-25-07, 11:02 PM	No. Hell we never even find out what the verbal or somantic components are. All we know is they can't be done well in restrictive clothing and it lets the fighter next to us get a free stab. I suspect it's a lot like ballet.
Vharuck 07-26-07, 02:19 AM	Where's Tempest? He has a link to a post (pretty sure it's his own) that reveals arcane magic (especially in the first edition of D&D) to be nothing more than tongue-in-cheek jokes and scientific parlor tricks. Real magic it is not.
Shiftkitty 07-26-07, 08:37 AM	The "real" magic of D&D is that it can turn a boring day or evening into a rowdy free-for-all of dice and medieval fantasy insults flying through the air while a bunch of peope have fun. The "real" magic of Harry Potter is that it got hundreds of thousands of kids and adults away from their TVs and video games and into libraries. A magic book indeed!
Sothar_Borealis 07-26-07, 09:18 AM	I can't help but wonder what is the deal on this forum with this JC person? are you referring to the religious figure or someone else? Also I would like to point out that I just generally curious so please don't drop the Hammer of Mordin on me....
Shiftkitty 07-26-07, 10:20 AM	Jack Chick produced a series of hate-mongering little comic books handed out to young impressionable children to recruit into the ranks of the Four-Square Gospel Church. I don't know if other churches used these things, but they are easily comparable to the propaganda produced by the Nazis to twist children's minds into a form more favorable toward Hitler. I was subject to these things, but found them laughable until I met someone who took them as truth. Scary, scary, scary! It's my understanding that we're not supposed to link to any of those comics, but I'm not entirely sure why.
Jagyr Ebonwood 07-26-07, 11:40 AM	The "real" magic of D&D is that it can turn a boring day or evening into a rowdy free-for-all of dice and medieval fantasy insults flying through the air while a bunch of people have fun. The "real" magic of Harry Potter is that it got hundreds of thousands of kids and adults away from their TVs and video games and into libraries. A magic book indeed! Preach on, brutha. :thumbsup:
CryoSilver 07-26-07, 12:00 PM	Of all the hundreds of books I've read, the ONLY books to propose that humans can actually invoke magic with tangible effects and present methods by which to do so are the Bible and Satanic Bible. Mind you, I have not read any books about Wicca (yet).
ElberethSilverleaf 07-26-07, 08:57 PM	As much as we would like reality to be otherwise there is no such thing as magic, miracles, witchcraft, vampires, undead, ghosts etc. Curses, prayers, blessings, and faith-healing just don't work. It is fun however to RP in a world where such wonders exist. :)
ArcTan 07-26-07, 09:03 PM	I was at consevapedia, the conservative/creationist wikipedia. I wanted to see what they had to say about DnD. Dispite being badly writen, as most of them are, it was not particularily offensive. It gave a breif synopsys of DnD and kept all acusations in the controversy/critisisms sections. In there it said that He-who-must-not-be-named* said at a certain level players could learn real magic spells. If that were true, then presumably D&D players could use their magic powers to obtain the great wealth, girlfriends and foolproof acne cures that prove so elusive in real life.
ElberethSilverleaf 07-26-07, 09:12 PM	You have that right Arctan! If magic or prayer really worked I would have been a pimpdaddy in high school. lol
Shiftkitty 07-26-07, 09:24 PM	Now I'm wondering how many zit-faced, coke bottle glasses-wearing, bad haircut-sporting, stereotypical geekboys are really tall, muscular, tanned studs who just got good enough to learn those "real" spells and morphed into something repulsive just to keep ditzy big-chested cheerleaders from interrupting their games. Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;)
was_fired 07-26-07, 09:40 PM	I can say I'm one such mage. Really I have Godly powers I just choose not to use them in fear of angering the purple skirt wearing consortium... or something. So far I've yet to meet a D&D player that actually believes in magic. I've seen mention of them on threads about creepy gamers, but in person, nada. Odds are the percentage is only slightly higher than among Christians (I count divine healers and their followers as people who believe in magic).
Rustmonster 07-26-07, 10:39 PM	Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;) No, I do not know that. I will NEVER know that.
DrMorganes 07-26-07, 11:03 PM	It's my understanding that we're not supposed to link to any of those comics, but I'm not entirely sure why. Because exposure lends credibility, and giving a crackpot an audience only encourages him. That and one may quickly see a "slashdot" effect; the shear volume of visitors from this forum could very easily overwhelm his webhost and temporarily bring down his site. Can you imagine the ammunition something like that would give him?!
ElberethSilverleaf 07-26-07, 11:25 PM	I remember getting one of those tracts as a kid from someone at school. It was about the TV show "Bewitched". (which I loved, along with "I Dream of Jeannie"). I showed it to my Rabbi and he took it, tore it up and said "Some people have NO sense of humor".
High Octane 07-27-07, 02:19 AM	No, I do not know that. I will NEVER know that. Me either. Weeps
DrowBattlemind 07-27-07, 04:30 AM	Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;) Not unless my wife (who's brunette) dyes her hair blonde. Or brings a real blond home for some not-safe-around-the-gaming-table fun...
Tempest Stormwind 07-27-07, 10:59 AM	Hell we never even find out what the verbal or somantic components are. All we know is they can't be done well in restrictive clothing and it lets the fighter next to us get a free stab. They were, apparently, described in the original edition. I haven't actually read many books from that era (I learned to play the original through discussion), but I do have the original Unearthed Arcana, which went so far as to describe them for every cantrip (it left the other spells alone, mercifully). I actually cite some examples... oh, wait... Where's Tempest? He has a link to a post (pretty sure it's his own) that reveals arcane magic (especially in the first edition of D&D) to be nothing more than tongue-in-cheek jokes and scientific parlor tricks. Real magic it is not. Yeah, this is what I was talking about. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=803718 Starts with post 18, but carries on for a bit in the thread. In short, I'm surprised they didn't specify finger of death as, oh, the infamous "I'm crushing your head!". There's more modern examples there too, as well, but those sometimes get closer to "sympathetic magic" than just mere jokes. Most of them are horrible puns (haste's component is a great example) and others are just amped-up science-fair gags (Lightning Bolt being the classic one). Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;) Black hair, and more likely to be in fishnets and corsets than miniskirts, but yes. (Oddly, we aren't even involved. She's just both a D&D player and a serious flirt. She and her sister both have matching "Saving Throw Vs. Sexy" tanktops, for instance.)
aotrscommander 07-27-07, 11:35 AM	Come on, guys. You know you hate it when some hot blonde chick in a miniskirt wiggles onto your lap and starts nibbling on your earlobe just as you're trying to make that DC throw. ;) Actually, I would hate that, if someone was so insane and/or perverse as to try it (and if I had any earlobes...) Though I think I'd be more revolted, 'cos "I'm not one of those biophylliacs," to quote a charismatic1 sage. Mind you, that's what natural Con-Drain is for! And carrying a hefty rocket launcher... We do not touch the Lich, thank you oh so very much, unless we want to loose our life-energy. 1Can't quite bring myself to call him 'wise'
schpeelah 07-27-07, 11:56 AM	I've read the guy's articles. He wrote that all spells in dnd are uset in real-world whtichcraft. Do you know of any sect that teaches Fireballs? I want cast Fireballs!!!!!
MHolland 07-27-07, 12:02 PM	That guy is a loon, that's all I have to say. I read Dark Dungeons and laughed like crazy. Reading the one about the Catholic church made me laugh even more. After that I got tired of laughing at his idiocy. :D
Zherog 07-27-07, 12:47 PM	It's my understanding that we're not supposed to link to any of those comics, but I'm not entirely sure why. In addition to what the good doctor said... What that man spews from his mouth is hate speech. Any form of hate speech is banned on these forums.
glorfon 07-27-07, 02:47 PM	Well, if you can't post the link could some one PM, or E-mail me a link. I hope this doesn't cause a storm of people requesting links.
Holy_Beholder 07-27-07, 02:57 PM	I've read the guy's articles. He wrote that all spells in dnd are uset in real-world whtichcraft. Do you know of any sect that teaches Fireballs? I want cast Fireballs!!!!! Please, Lightning bolts are so much more fun. Not to mention that one psionic power that increases HP and Hardness instantaneously. I can think of a few plates that need that. But seriously, Jack Crick is uninformed. D&D doesn't teach real witchcraft, as for verbal and somatic components, all that tells us is that we have to say something and move someway. Thats like a car repair manual saying you have to "mess with tools" and "look for stuff" Its not exactly precise instructions. On the bright side he is better at math than Patricia Pulling(you don't add percentages of different groups to figure out the whole. 4% of adults and 4% o teenagers is less than 4% of people(,missing really young kids and stuff), not 8%)
Bruunwald 07-27-07, 03:13 PM	Movies where every person in the whole theater was rivetted and completely wrapped up emotionally in the characters on the screen. Concerts where, during a quiet song, you could hear a pin drop between the pauses in it, the music was so incredible. There is real magic in the world. But it's hardly evil.
aotrscommander 07-27-07, 04:05 PM	Movies where every person in the whole theater was rivetted and completely wrapped up emotionally in the characters on the screen. Concerts where, during a quiet song, you could hear a pin drop between the pauses in it, the music was so incredible. There is real magic in the world. But it's hardly evil. Yet, sadly, some people on the lunatic fringe do believe that it is. Humans worry me some days.
ORC_Tuhteth 07-27-07, 04:19 PM	To answer your question: No, there has never been a game book of any sort that detailed the actual incantations or somatic components necessary to cast a spell. There are only two things I can think of that could possibly be interpreted that way: (1) Listing material components (e.g. bat guano), and (2) for certain protection spells, the note that the character draws a circle on the ground to indicate the border of the effect. Now, for obvious reasons, this thread is closed.