Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thecosmicgoose 01-04-07, 02:38 PM	where'd that term come from? i had always though the term "fire-and-foreget" was the standby descriptor for DnD magic, but i see this new term popping up, and i wonder where it came from.
Witch 01-04-07, 02:40 PM	It's not a new term. Fire-and-forget magic is the type of magic used in Jack Vance's books.
Millennium 01-04-07, 03:00 PM	where'd that term come from? i had always though the term "fire-and-foreget" was the standby descriptor for DnD magic, but i see this new term popping up, and i wonder where it came from. It comes from Jack Vance, whose Dying Earth stories featured one of the first systems of magic in fantasy to be described in detail. The style of magic that wizards and clerics use, also sometimes called fire-and-forget, was based on it. Sorcerers as 3e knows them didn't exist in Vance's books, though. Their style of magic came from a different source: the early Final Fantasy games.
High Octane 01-04-07, 03:05 PM	Sorcerers as 3e knows them didn't exist in Vance's books, though. Their style of magic came from a different source: the early Final Fantasy games. ......I doubt that. The first appearance of a Sorcerer that I am aware of is I think my DM put into his campaign this thing called a Mentat. I believe that was from an old 1st edition magazine, possibly Dungeon. But I cant remember.
Solaris 01-04-07, 03:09 PM	DM put into his campaign this thing called a Mentat. I believe that was from an old 1st edition magazine, possibly Dungeon. It's a human computer from Frank Herbert's Dune novels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentat
High Octane 01-04-07, 03:37 PM	It's a human computer from Frank Herbert's Dune novels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentat Thats where I think the inspiration came, but I dont know where the actual class he has us play with came from.
Dan Hemmens 01-04-07, 04:04 PM	where'd that term come from? i had always though the term "fire-and-foreget" was the standby descriptor for DnD magic, but i see this new term popping up, and i wonder where it came from. People have already pointed out the origin of the basic mechanics, I'd add that a fair few of the spells are actually direct from the books, including the Prismatic Spray.
Templar_Prime 01-04-07, 06:44 PM	......I doubt that. The first appearance of a Sorcerer that I am aware of is I think my DM put into his campaign this thing called a Mentat. I believe that was from an old 1st edition magazine, possibly Dungeon. But I cant remember. No, actually, it is VERY similar. In the original Final Fantasy, you did not have mana points. Instead, you had limits based on spell levels. So you had X 1st level spells, Y 2nd, etc... Still a silly system, but Wizards seems to want to handicap any actaul point-based system (either by completely screwing them over, as is straight Unearthed Arcana-style spellpoints, or just being hostile and unsupporting as with psionics).
caeruleus 01-04-07, 07:36 PM	No, actually, it is VERY similar. But it's still a separate question of whether FF directly influenced the 3.x sorcerer. (And I don't know either way if it did or not.)
razorboy 01-04-07, 09:15 PM	There was also a 2nd Edition AD&D kit called Sorcerer, besides I think the designers' (or at least the publisher's) thought process on the matter of sorcerer was like: - "Ok, people like magic, but wizards don't have enough spells." - "Well why don't we create a class with more spells per day but less spells known?" - "Hey, that sounds good. We can't call it wizard, how about sorcerer?" - "Sure, that sounds good too. Now let's nerf the hell out of this new class and give a bunch more options for wizards, so that everybody will still play wizards, and later on we'll come out with a real sorcerer but call it differently and sell it to them." - "Um... let's call it warlock." - "Sure!" Sounds of maniacal laughter, exit stage left. We need more love for sorcerers. Heritage feats are a big step in the right direction and there are some neat new sorcerer spells in Complete Mage, but sorcerers need more. :)
High Octane 01-04-07, 11:00 PM	No, actually, it is VERY similar. In the original Final Fantasy, you did not have mana points. Instead, you had limits based on spell levels. So you had X 1st level spells, Y 2nd, etc... Still a silly system, but Wizards seems to want to handicap any actaul point-based system (either by completely screwing them over, as is straight Unearthed Arcana-style spellpoints, or just being hostile and unsupporting as with psionics). Actually Final Fantasy 1 had both spells/day and mana points.