Animal Companion feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal Companion feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fitz10019
12-06-06, 01:34 PM Sorry if this is covered somewhere, but the Search function is not working. The following is a v3.5 question:

If I understand correctly, a druid's animal companion gets feats based on its HD count. Because base-animal has a feat (or feats) listed in the Monster Manual, does that count as the animal companion's 1st-level feat? Or, is the animal companion considered a character, and as such does the player choose a 1st-level feat? If the player chooses, is he replacing the feat or feats listed in the MM, or is the MM feat considered some kind of a racial bonus feat? Classic example: wolf, MM lists 2HD, with feats track and weapon-focus(bite). A wolf you encounter in the wild has these feats. If a level-1 druid has a wolf as an animal companion, does that animal companion wolf also have another feat, one that the player chooses for this animal as a character?
frasmage
12-06-06, 02:10 PM bonus HD from being a druid's companion do not grant feats.

The feats listed are for their base racial feats, they are the ones they get from 1st level. However it is possible to find a wolf with a different selection of starting feats if you speak to your DM
Fitz10019
12-06-06, 02:32 PM I think that's incorrect, frasmage. PHB p. 36 "An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster's Hit Dice (see the Monster Manual)." Monster Manual p. 292 shows the example monster getting more feats based on it's HD increase.

So, my question to all is, does a player get to choose a 1st-level feat for an animal companion, in addition to the existing "racial" feats from the MM? Any druids out there?
ChimericalWolf
12-06-06, 02:59 PM I'm not entirely sure, but I think Masters of the Wild might have had rules for Druids searching for non-standard Animal Companions.

As a DM, I would allow a player to ask for different choices, of course, but I would restrict it to fairly simple changes. If a player asked to swap out Weapon Focus: Bite for Run, I'd have no problem with it.

Note that the Track feat that wolves get is marked with a superscript B, so it's a bonus feat, or a racial feat, and cannot be changed.
Fitz10019
12-06-06, 03:27 PM That's a useful distinction, thanks. So, any feat not marked as a bonus feat might be negotiable with the DM. Clearly, though, by this reading, the existing feats not marked with a B are not "free" feats. They represent the feats chosen based on the HD, as a default.

Thanks again.
frasmage
12-06-06, 05:24 PM Yes, sorry, thats what I get for not checking before posting - a wrong answer. However if I get your question right, you're saying "does the feat count start over at 1st?" The answer is no. If you have a normally 1HD familiar and give it a single bonus HD, it does not gain another feat. 2 HD would however as it brings the total level up to 3 (when one would get a feat anyways)
Fitz10019
12-06-06, 06:01 PM Nothing to do with the bonus HD. The idea was... a level 1 character, level 1 wizard gets the scribe scroll feat with the class, AND the player still chooses a feat besides that, because it's level 1. So, for an animal companion, besides the feats in the monster manual, does the player ALSO choose a level 1 feat?

The answer is no -- the monster manual is a set of templates for monsters. The MM animal templates (and levelling rules) are used for animal companions. The MM includes bonus feats (marked with a "b"), and pre-chosen feats based on the HD (to make life easier for DMs and summoners). A player choosing an animal companion might ask his DM for permission to swap out the pre-chosen feats for player-chosen feats, but should not ask the same for bonus feats (like the wolf's Track). ChimeralWolf's example was perfect: a player (maybe who intends to have his halfling druid ride his animal companion) might ask that Weapon Focus (bite) be swapped for Run (or Endurance, something movement related).

Thanks again to both of you.
Zherog
12-06-06, 06:06 PM Any feats marked with a superscript B are bonus feats; the animal always has these feats - it's part of being that animal.

Other feats listed in the entry are the feats the animal received for its hit dice. Like all Monster Manual entries, this represents what the "typical" creature has. There's no real reason your companion has to have that feat though. It can take any feat for which it qualifies.

Note that most animals have extensive errata about their feats. Lots of 'em in the Monster Manual have feats for which they do not qualify - Weapon Finesse being a big culprit. The errata makes this feat a bonus feat and then selects another feat for the animal to gain at its first hit die (typically one of the +2 to two stats feats such as Alertness).
Fitz10019
12-06-06, 06:11 PM That's interesting, Zherog. But the Weapon Finesse description specifically says that natural weapons are always considered light weapons (PHB p.102). So what's the scandal? Do some monsters lack the BAB +1??
Zherog
12-06-06, 06:22 PM Yep. Animals have a +0 BAB at their first hit die, so they can't select Weapon Finesse until their 3rd hit die.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fitz10019 12-06-06, 01:34 PM	Sorry if this is covered somewhere, but the Search function is not working. The following is a v3.5 question: If I understand correctly, a druid's animal companion gets feats based on its HD count. Because base-animal has a feat (or feats) listed in the Monster Manual, does that count as the animal companion's 1st-level feat? Or, is the animal companion considered a character, and as such does the player choose a 1st-level feat? If the player chooses, is he replacing the feat or feats listed in the MM, or is the MM feat considered some kind of a racial bonus feat? Classic example: wolf, MM lists 2HD, with feats track and weapon-focus(bite). A wolf you encounter in the wild has these feats. If a level-1 druid has a wolf as an animal companion, does that animal companion wolf also have another feat, one that the player chooses for this animal as a character?
frasmage 12-06-06, 02:10 PM	bonus HD from being a druid's companion do not grant feats. The feats listed are for their base racial feats, they are the ones they get from 1st level. However it is possible to find a wolf with a different selection of starting feats if you speak to your DM
Fitz10019 12-06-06, 02:32 PM	I think that's incorrect, frasmage. PHB p. 36 "An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster's Hit Dice (see the Monster Manual)." Monster Manual p. 292 shows the example monster getting more feats based on it's HD increase. So, my question to all is, does a player get to choose a 1st-level feat for an animal companion, in addition to the existing "racial" feats from the MM? Any druids out there?
ChimericalWolf 12-06-06, 02:59 PM	I'm not entirely sure, but I think Masters of the Wild might have had rules for Druids searching for non-standard Animal Companions. As a DM, I would allow a player to ask for different choices, of course, but I would restrict it to fairly simple changes. If a player asked to swap out Weapon Focus: Bite for Run, I'd have no problem with it. Note that the Track feat that wolves get is marked with a superscript B, so it's a bonus feat, or a racial feat, and cannot be changed.
Fitz10019 12-06-06, 03:27 PM	That's a useful distinction, thanks. So, any feat not marked as a bonus feat might be negotiable with the DM. Clearly, though, by this reading, the existing feats not marked with a B are not "free" feats. They represent the feats chosen based on the HD, as a default. Thanks again.
frasmage 12-06-06, 05:24 PM	Yes, sorry, thats what I get for not checking before posting - a wrong answer. However if I get your question right, you're saying "does the feat count start over at 1st?" The answer is no. If you have a normally 1HD familiar and give it a single bonus HD, it does not gain another feat. 2 HD would however as it brings the total level up to 3 (when one would get a feat anyways)
Fitz10019 12-06-06, 06:01 PM	Nothing to do with the bonus HD. The idea was... a level 1 character, level 1 wizard gets the scribe scroll feat with the class, AND the player still chooses a feat besides that, because it's level 1. So, for an animal companion, besides the feats in the monster manual, does the player ALSO choose a level 1 feat? The answer is no -- the monster manual is a set of templates for monsters. The MM animal templates (and levelling rules) are used for animal companions. The MM includes bonus feats (marked with a "b"), and pre-chosen feats based on the HD (to make life easier for DMs and summoners). A player choosing an animal companion might ask his DM for permission to swap out the pre-chosen feats for player-chosen feats, but should not ask the same for bonus feats (like the wolf's Track). ChimeralWolf's example was perfect: a player (maybe who intends to have his halfling druid ride his animal companion) might ask that Weapon Focus (bite) be swapped for Run (or Endurance, something movement related). Thanks again to both of you.
Zherog 12-06-06, 06:06 PM	Any feats marked with a superscript B are bonus feats; the animal always has these feats - it's part of being that animal. Other feats listed in the entry are the feats the animal received for its hit dice. Like all Monster Manual entries, this represents what the "typical" creature has. There's no real reason your companion has to have that feat though. It can take any feat for which it qualifies. Note that most animals have extensive errata about their feats. Lots of 'em in the Monster Manual have feats for which they do not qualify - Weapon Finesse being a big culprit. The errata makes this feat a bonus feat and then selects another feat for the animal to gain at its first hit die (typically one of the +2 to two stats feats such as Alertness).
Fitz10019 12-06-06, 06:11 PM	That's interesting, Zherog. But the Weapon Finesse description specifically says that natural weapons are always considered light weapons (PHB p.102). So what's the scandal? Do some monsters lack the BAB +1??
Zherog 12-06-06, 06:22 PM	Yep. Animals have a +0 BAB at their first hit die, so they can't select Weapon Finesse until their 3rd hit die.