Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grayson 02-07-04, 04:55 PM	An upcoming encounter for my party has them up against a cleric with the Animate Dead spell. The Cleric is only 8th level, and has 2 Hill Giant skeletons (12HD each, CR6) (Could have up to 32HD of skeletons) Comparably, Summon Critter IV can get a CR3 creature for a handful of rounds. Normally, I know that summons don't add CR.. but this seems a bit extreme. The skeletons aren't a big deal to the fighters, but they're 90hp or so each, which is a signifigant amount. Seems to me that they should be counted in as extra CR for determining EL. Thoughts?
Capn Charlie 02-07-04, 05:01 PM	Well, I would count them as magic items. Count them off of the cleric's equipment, and reduce the spells per day and it shouldn't be a problem. However you might consider just giving a "Summon Undead" spell to the cleric.
Grayson 02-07-04, 05:06 PM	.. *blinks in confusion* Count them as equipment? I don't remember seeing "Hill Giant skeleton" on the DMG treasure table :p He's casting them via the 3rd level spell, not scrolls ;)
Capn Charlie 02-07-04, 05:11 PM	I mean that if you reduce the cleric's power a bit it shouldn't be that big of a deal. If you give him a pair of skeleton bodyguards and take away his +x fullplate it might balance out. With levels this low the only real way to balance it is to just add them to the encounter. It would just bump it up to cr10, iirc.
Makaris 02-07-04, 05:18 PM	No, the ability to summon is factored into a the spellcasters CR already.
Grayson 02-07-04, 05:30 PM	Yeah, that's the way the rules work. I'm asking if folks agree that's the way they should work ;) The choice between 32HD of creatures for two spells (and killing or finding the creatures skeletons)... or 6HD for two spells, and for a limited time period... Animate dead is far, far more powerful than the equivalent level Summoning spells.
Palin the Wizard 02-07-04, 06:49 PM	Undead created by the Animate Dead spell are not summoned creatures. They have a CR of their own.