Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mindolin 11-21-07, 12:37 PM	Hey everyone, first off this is not an attempt to start a flame war or anything of the sort. Many people evidently think that anime characters are, by their very nature, overpowered. What I am here to say is that anime characters are no more naturally overpowered than, say, Lord of the Rings, or other novel characters. What is overpowered about all of them is the people who try and make them according to their visions of the power of the character. Thus, if you make the character according to the skill actually shown by the character, it's quite possibly to make a low level anime hero. Take for example the show Naruto. A project that was, possibly still is, underway on the Psionics boards was to make the Naruto characters using Psionics. However, the builds, while accurate, were mostly unusable in a normal game, because even the basic genin, or apprentice ninja, were in the high teens for their level, with a number of them even being level 20. While that may be needed, there are ways to make the characters at lower levels. As an example, here's a beginning of the series Naruto I made in just a few minutes Uzumaki Naruto, Male Human Bbn2/Sor1: CR 3; Medium Humanoid ; HD 2d12+6(Barbarian) , 1d4+3(Sorcerer) ; hp 30; Init +0; Spd 40; AC:9 (Flatfooted:9 Touch:9); Atk +4 base melee, +2 base ranged; AL CG; SV Fort +6, Ref +0, Will +2; STR 14, DEX 11, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 14. Skills: Climb +8, Concentration +6, Diplomacy +5, Disguise +3, Jump +12, Listen +3, Use Rope +1. Feats: Armor Proficiency: light, Armor Proficiency: medium, Improved Unarmed Strike, Precocious Apprentice, Rapid Metabolism, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Wild Talent. Spells Known (Sor 5/7): 1st -- Disguise Self. Possessions: Magic: Ring: Wizardry I (20,000 gp). The character was built using 32 point buy, with the only thing done not completely according to the rules was giving him a Ring of Wizardry that represents his high chakra capability.
TheMonk 11-21-07, 01:16 PM	Very nice build. And I agree on what you said. People try to make characters according to their visions. But then again, if we wanna make Goku, we'd probably end up making a character that can probably defeat anything :D But yeah, I do get your point. Anime characters *can* be made on lower level, it's not a problem. You need to redo the character and make him weaker than he is in the anime etc. As for your build, I would not agree with the 2 levels of barbarian. 2 levels of fighter is more like it, because naruto is a trained fighter, he relies on tactics more than on brute strength and rage or the like. The stat distribution is pretty good though. One nitpick is the ring of wizardry - it's an item made for an 11th level character aprox (give or take a level or two), and naruto is only level 3. He isn't really supposed to have that kind of item.
Grumman 11-21-07, 01:27 PM	As for your build, I would not agree with the 2 levels of barbarian. 2 levels of fighter is more like it, because naruto is a trained fighter, he relies on tactics more than on brute strength and rage or the like. The stat distribution is pretty good though. Are we reading the same comic? I'd say a class which adds fast movement, increased toughness and short durations of extreme violence represents Naruto rather well. That, and the fighter class is a half-step above commoner levels in terms of adding character to a build. Going back to the OP, I'd be far more likely to use a level 20 build than a level 2-3 build. Even if a game isn't going to reach level 20, it provides an inherent guide of how to build the character for all the earlier levels.
Mindolin 11-21-07, 01:34 PM	Yeah, the main reason I decided on Barbarian was the increased HP, and while he is trained as a warrior, he is not as well trained formally as Lee, or Sasuke, so it didn't seem right to give him the Bonus Feats a fighter would get. Wait, Naruto uses tactics? Even a Barbarian can use tactics, it's just a common thing for the player to do not much more planning than "I run next to him then I rage." The Rage mechanic can explain his early Kyuubi rage, such as against Haku, whereas later Kyuubi rage can be the Rage ability plus some Buffing that he does right before activating Rage. Yeah, as I mentioned, the reason I gave him a Ring of Wizardry I is because I can't really think of any other way to give him the Chakra stamina that he has shown. That's why his CR is bumped up, albeit by one because he doesn't have any combat spells, though he has most of his spells left unlearned. Also, I forgot to mention it, but Precocious Apprentice is for Summon Monster II. Another possibility for it is to give him the Past Life special ability from DMG II, 5th level spell version, and he can use it to summon 1d4+1 clones of his, exact replicas of this stat block, based upon rules in Dragon magazine where a classed NPC can be summoned, using a Summoning spell of the character's level. As to the comment about using level 20 builds, yeah they do provide a build, but they have been built to offer the abilities at level 20, so your other levels are pretty much spent getting to that power later on, which is why I don't like them much, but they most certainly have their uses. I just sort of objected to seeing 13-15 year olds approaching epic level. I just threw out a level 3 build because I was just watching the first few episodes, and so decided to do one true to the second episode. Honestly, I can see Naruto being approaching teens by the end of the Chunin exam, because he fights high end characters, that pretty much are going to grant him a level after the fight.
TheMonk 11-21-07, 01:47 PM	Grumman: I watch the anime, I don't read the comic :) But I do guess the to are pretty much the same. Mindolin: I see now. I also thought the rage would represent his Kyuubi outbursts. That one I saw coming. However, with time, naruto will learn to control his Kyuubi chakra I believe (I haven't seen the whole anime) so barbarian levels may no fit him that well. But yes, I do see the reason behind the barbarian levels.
Mindolin 11-21-07, 01:53 PM	Doesn't a Barbarian control his rage? Then in such a way Naruto will learn to control the Kyuubi's rage. Actually, while I haven't included it in this build, I think the best way to represent his Kyuubi Chakra is to give him the Wild Magic ability of a Wild Mage, and his later training to control it is through the Wild Mage Prestige Class.
Grumman 11-21-07, 01:55 PM	Grumman: I watch the anime, I don't read the comic :) But I do guess the to are pretty much the same. Yeah, they're more or less identical until you get to the Episodes That Shall Not Be Named.
Lokathor 11-21-07, 02:00 PM	Well, you'd probably also throw in some variants like "trade out barbarian martial weapon proficiency for Improved Unarmed Strike". Also, Naruto is probably more like Int 8.
VulcanStormwrath 11-21-07, 02:33 PM	Very nice build. And I agree on what you said. People try to make characters according to their visions. But then again, if we wanna make Goku, we'd probably end up making a character that can probably defeat anything :D But yeah, I do get your point. Anime characters *can* be made on lower level, it's not a problem. You need to redo the character and make him weaker than he is in the anime etc. As for your build, I would not agree with the 2 levels of barbarian. 2 levels of fighter is more like it, because naruto is a trained fighter, he relies on tactics more than on brute strength and rage or the like. The stat distribution is pretty good though. One nitpick is the ring of wizardry - it's an item made for an 11th level character aprox (give or take a level or two), and naruto is only level 3. He isn't really supposed to have that kind of item. Honestly the easiest way to make Goku would be to allow a multiclass between Monk and Warlock. The more powerful verion would be to Gestalt them.
Mindolin 11-21-07, 03:18 PM	Goku would not be a gestalt Monk Warlock. Gestalt Monk/Wilder is much more like it. Kaio-ken: Animal Affinity + Quickened Animal Affinity, to Strength and Dexterity. Kamehameha: Energy powers, especially Ray, Bolt, or Cone (fire), or Crystal Shard modified to deal Bludgeoning damage. Instant Transmission:Teleport. Spirit Bomb: unknown. Flight: Psionic Flight ability Main reason: this way Goku can go for broke, going higher than Manifester Level on Damage abilities, and it would actually be able to do enough damage to do some of the stuff that it does in later DBZ episodes. Naruto is not Int 8, though. Remember, Sakura and Sasuke have higher Int to make use of their abilties, so by comparison Naruto looks stupid. Iruka was much the same as Naruto, with low grades, and, ironically, so was Shikamaru, and Shikamaru would have, in D&D terms, an Int of 20 or higher. Naruto is fairly intelligent. Remember, he was the one who thought up the plan to rescue Kakashi from Zabuza, not Sasuke. What Naruto would possibly have an 8 in is Wisdom, as he is incredibly rash. I mean come on, the little punk actually picked a fight with a ninja powerful enough to be the next hokage. Still, I chose to keep it 10 because he is sometimes observant. He was the first one to notice how hard Lee trained, by noticing the bruises under the bandages.
TheMonk 11-22-07, 09:09 AM	Honestly the easiest way to make Goku would be to allow a multiclass between Monk and Warlock. The more powerful verion would be to Gestalt them. How come that a monk/warlock makes a character like Goku actually? What's up with that? Yeah, they're more or less identical until you get to the Episodes That Shall Not Be Named. Indeed. I prefer the anime though, not much of a comic fan :) Goku would not be a gestalt Monk Warlock. Gestalt Monk/Wilder is much more like it. Kaio-ken: Animal Affinity + Quickened Animal Affinity, to Strength and Dexterity. Kamehameha: Energy powers, especially Ray, Bolt, or Cone (fire), or Crystal Shard modified to deal Bludgeoning damage. Instant Transmission:Teleport. Spirit Bomb: unknown. Flight: Psionic Flight ability Main reason: this way Goku can go for broke, going higher than Manifester Level on Damage abilities, and it would actually be able to do enough damage to do some of the stuff that it does in later DBZ episodes. Naruto is not Int 8, though. Remember, Sakura and Sasuke have higher Int to make use of their abilties, so by comparison Naruto looks stupid. Iruka was much the same as Naruto, with low grades, and, ironically, so was Shikamaru, and Shikamaru would have, in D&D terms, an Int of 20 or higher. Naruto is fairly intelligent. Remember, he was the one who thought up the plan to rescue Kakashi from Zabuza, not Sasuke. What Naruto would possibly have an 8 in is Wisdom, as he is incredibly rash. I mean come on, the little punk actually picked a fight with a ninja powerful enough to be the next hokage. Still, I chose to keep it 10 because he is sometimes observant. He was the first one to notice how hard Lee trained, by noticing the bruises under the bandages. Hmm you got me interested in the whole Goku thing, and the concept. It looks very fun :) Is there any place where I can find out more about how build such a character? Also I agree with the shikamaru and naruto thing. In the anime, shikamaru is supposed to have an IQ of 200, perhaps even more. Naruto would definitely have a wisdom score of 8 lol, he is very rahs as you said, and jumps to conclusions. He's just hyper that way :)
Mindolin 11-22-07, 02:34 PM	Hmm you got me interested in the whole Goku thing, and the concept. It looks very fun :) Is there any place where I can find out more about how build such a character? Also I agree with the shikamaru and naruto thing. In the anime, shikamaru is supposed to have an IQ of 200, perhaps even more. Naruto would definitely have a wisdom score of 8 lol, he is very rahs as you said, and jumps to conclusions. He's just hyper that way :) I don't think there's been a really good Goku build, but he's high on the Physical stats, supremely low on the mental ones, with his highest being Charisma. Intelligence, sadly, might rank a bit higher than Wisdom, based on how he is rash enough to let Freiza and others go to their highest power before fighting at his strongest. Best race to use for the Saiyans, in my opinion, would be the Giff from one of the issues of Dragon, with Scro as Half-Saiyan. A good idea for Super Saiyan would be the Red Dragonspawn template from Dragonlance campaign setting, modified to give the Super Saiyan a virtual level of Wilder instead of Sorcerer. Give me a few days and I can probably throw together a stat block for Goku at about the time of the Raditz fight, by comparing his power level and Gohan's power level at the time of the fight against Vegeta and Nappa. Heck, I might even do a version of him without Gestalt. Naruto is rash, but he is not unperceptive. Remember, he was the one who noticed the rabbit hiding in the bushes. He just didn't have the intelligence to realize what the coloration, and thus the rabbit, meant. No one else noticed Zabuza hiding in the bush, so Naruto's not as unperceptive as he at first seems. Still, he's rash and at times stupid, such as when he went for the bell lying on the ground during the test with Kakashi.
TheMonk 11-23-07, 10:06 AM	I don't think there's been a really good Goku build, but he's high on the Physical stats, supremely low on the mental ones, with his highest being Charisma. Intelligence, sadly, might rank a bit higher than Wisdom, based on how he is rash enough to let Freiza and others go to their highest power before fighting at his strongest. Best race to use for the Saiyans, in my opinion, would be the Giff from one of the issues of Dragon, with Scro as Half-Saiyan. A good idea for Super Saiyan would be the Red Dragonspawn template from Dragonlance campaign setting, modified to give the Super Saiyan a virtual level of Wilder instead of Sorcerer. Give me a few days and I can probably throw together a stat block for Goku at about the time of the Raditz fight, by comparing his power level and Gohan's power level at the time of the fight against Vegeta and Nappa. Heck, I might even do a version of him without Gestalt. That would be great if you could, I'm very curious to see it :) Personally, I like it that goku always lets his opponent achieve maximum power. He does it to see how strong his opponent is, and see if he can match him. Not the brightest thing to do when the entire planet is at stake, but Goku is invincible anyway ;) The fusion saves his butt several time, but at the fight against omega he was so powerful he decided to use his superior power to scare the crap out of omega lol. That was funny as hell, although not very bright :) However, I think goku's wisdom should be higher than his intelligence, because he's never smart enough to finish off an opponent when he can, which as I said, while it can be a good thing sometimes, it's not that good when the word is at stake. Goku is very perceptive I think. The fight against Pikkon for example, goku figured out the weak spot of pikkon's technique, and used it against him. I think goku is pretty perceptive when he needs to be, but not always the smartest. There are a lot of opportunities where he messed up lol. Naruto is rash, but he is not unperceptive. Remember, he was the one who noticed the rabbit hiding in the bushes. He just didn't have the intelligence to realize what the coloration, and thus the rabbit, meant. No one else noticed Zabuza hiding in the bush, so Naruto's not as unperceptive as he at first seems. Still, he's rash and at times stupid, such as when he went for the bell lying on the ground during the test with Kakashi. Oh yeah, I love kakashi. "You don't get it. You think you get it, which is not the same as getting it. Get it?" Sooo funny :D But yeah I agree, he's not the smartest, but he's definitely very perceptive.
CryoSilver 11-23-07, 10:37 AM	Perceptive but none too bright = low Int, high Wis, coupled with ranks in Spot and Sense Motive. I only watched Dragonball (Z) ona nd off, but it seems tome that once you get up to the point where Goku and ilk are already capable of blowing up cities, they're pretty epic, but before that point (eg: during Dragonabll sans Z), they are fully within the range of normal characters. IMO, swordsage is a good base class for them (Fan the Flames dealing energy damage instead of fire = the various ki blasts, Sudden Leap and other Tiger Claw powers = limited flight/crazy jumping powers).
TheMonk 11-23-07, 11:53 AM	I only watched Dragonball (Z) ona nd off, but it seems tome that once you get up to the point where Goku and ilk are already capable of blowing up cities, they're pretty epic, but before that point (eg: during Dragonabll sans Z), they are fully within the range of normal characters. Well actually I'd say they're pretty much epic starting roughly around the Piccollo saga (piccollo's son, that is) because they have insane strength and such, and piccollo is, at that time, capable of blowing up an entire city (remember what he did, he made a HUGE crater that levels a city no problem). Starting with the Vegeta saga, they're blowing up planets already (remember, at that point, goku is capable of achieving the same strength as vegeta, and vegeta is seen blowing up a whole planet prior to his fight with goku).
CryoSilver 11-23-07, 11:54 AM	On and off, as I said.
ryuspearhead 11-23-07, 05:05 PM	Hey everyone, first off this is not an attempt to start a flame war or anything of the sort. Many people evidently think that anime characters are, by their very nature, overpowered. What I am here to say is that anime characters are no more naturally overpowered than, say, Lord of the Rings, or other novel characters. What is overpowered about all of them is the people who try and make them according to their visions of the power of the character. Thus, if you make the character according to the skill actually shown by the character, it's quite possibly to make a low level anime hero. Take for example the show Naruto. A project that was, possibly still is, underway on the Psionics boards was to make the Naruto characters using Psionics. However, the builds, while accurate, were mostly unusable in a normal game, because even the basic genin, or apprentice ninja, were in the high teens for their level, with a number of them even being level 20. While that may be needed, there are ways to make the characters at lower levels. As an example, here's a beginning of the series Naruto I made in just a few minutes Uzumaki Naruto, Male Human Bbn2/Sor1: CR 3; Medium Humanoid ; HD 2d12+6(Barbarian) , 1d4+3(Sorcerer) ; hp 30; Init +0; Spd 40; AC:9 (Flatfooted:9 Touch:9); Atk +4 base melee, +2 base ranged; AL CG; SV Fort +6, Ref +0, Will +2; STR 14, DEX 11, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 14. Skills: Climb +8, Concentration +6, Diplomacy +5, Disguise +3, Jump +12, Listen +3, Use Rope +1. Feats: Armor Proficiency: light, Armor Proficiency: medium, Improved Unarmed Strike, Precocious Apprentice, Rapid Metabolism, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Wild Talent. Spells Known (Sor 5/7): 1st -- Disguise Self. Possessions: Magic: Ring: Wizardry I (20,000 gp). The character was built using 32 point buy, with the only thing done not completely according to the rules was giving him a Ring of Wizardry that represents his high chakra capability. you don't happen to have neji or sasuke do you ?
Edymnion 11-23-07, 11:16 PM	That, and the fighter class is a half-step above commoner levels in terms of adding character to a build.I'm sorry, I was interested in this thread until that comment. Let me just put it this way, if you have to get character out of the freaking class you take, then IMO, you're playing the game wrong. Yes, I just said that. Classes have *NOTHING* to do with character or flavor. Any trained combatant is likely going to have Fighter levels, simply for the BAB and feats. If you think the class is too bland, thats one thing, but flat out saying that the class is worthless for building a "cool" character is just flat out wrong, IMO. I'm a big fan of "If you can't make a fun, creative, and exciting character out of a human fighter in full plate with longsword and shield, then you don't deserve to play anything but that until you learn how."
Mindolin 11-24-07, 12:55 AM	Yeah, Fighter while it isn't an impressive class, a few levels can be taken for Feats, and my main reason for not using it is that Naruto is not a trained fighter. Cryosilver, I agree very much that Tome of Battle is very useful for DBZ. What I actually do is let the Warblade switch out White Raven for Desert Wind. It's pretty fair, as my younger brother is currently playing one, using that varient, and it's not overpowered. Actually, Ryuspearhead, I do have a Sasuke. It represents him after the fight with Haku Uchiha Sasuke, Male Human Sor3/Mnk2: CR 5; Medium Humanoid ; HD 3d4(Sorcerer) , 2d8(Monk) ; hp 18; Init +2; Spd 30; AC:13 (Flatfooted:11 Touch:13); Atk +3 base melee, +4 base ranged; +3 (1d6+1, Unarmed strike); AL LE; SV Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +7; STR 13, DEX 15, CON 10, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 14. Skills: Concentration +6, Escape Artist +4, Hide +4, Jump +4, Knowledge (Arcana) +9, Move Silently +6, Spellcraft +13, Spot +3, Tumble +5. Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Sharingan, Simple Weapon Proficiency. Spells Known (Sor 6/6): 1st -- Burning Hands, Disguise Self. One Tomoe Sharingan PreReqs: Member of Uchiha clan, 3rd Character level. The Sharingan develops in you, and you gain a +2 bonus on Spot checks and Spellcraft checks, a +1 bonus on saves against directly harmful illusions, such as Phantasmal Killer, but not on, as an example, an illusionary floor over a pit. Special: You may gain this feat even if not a member of the Uchiha clan, provided you can somehow find a near death Uchiha who is willing to grant you his eyes. Good luck not having them kill you.
ryuspearhead 11-24-07, 01:19 AM	thanks thou i might take that uchiha feat and give it to naruto ,also do you have part 2 naruto or sasuke by chance or post sasuke betrail sasuke?
TheMonk 11-24-07, 07:29 AM	Special: You may gain this feat even if not a member of the Uchiha clan, provided you can somehow find a near death Uchiha who is willing to grant you his eyes. Good luck not having them kill you. Hahaha On and off, as I said. Ah, right :)
Mindolin 11-24-07, 12:13 PM	I think it would be more appropriate to call Arlia a small planet, at best, with a penalty to HP and Hardness because from what we've seen it's a very cavernous place. It took very little time for Vegeta to power up to destroy it, much less time than it took Freiza to power up an attack to destroy Namek, and even then Freiza's attack held too much back, giving it a time bomb explosion instead of a fireball explosion. What I am trying to say is that, overall, the heroes and villains couldn't just destroy the planet, because if they could why didn't Vegeta run back to his ship at the point where Nappa destroyed Piccolo, and blast Earth to dust immediatly after taking off? Since there was no reason to stick around, it would have been a wise tactical manuever, since they could find Namek and check out the Dragon Balls there. Then there is always the idea that it could be a plot point, saying they are so strong when they really haven't got the power to back it up further.
TheMonk 11-24-07, 12:57 PM	I think it would be more appropriate to call Arlia a small planet, at best, with a penalty to HP and Hardness because from what we've seen it's a very cavernous place. It took very little time for Vegeta to power up to destroy it, much less time than it took Freiza to power up an attack to destroy Namek, and even then Freiza's attack held too much back, giving it a time bomb explosion instead of a fireball explosion. What I am trying to say is that, overall, the heroes and villains couldn't just destroy the planet, because if they could why didn't Vegeta run back to his ship at the point where Nappa destroyed Piccolo, and blast Earth to dust immediatly after taking off? Since there was no reason to stick around, it would have been a wise tactical manuever, since they could find Namek and check out the Dragon Balls there. Then there is always the idea that it could be a plot point, saying they are so strong when they really haven't got the power to back it up further. That's true actually, but a planet is still a planet, and I think you'll agree that any being that can single handedly destroy a *planet* is pretty much epic, as well as someone who can do the same with a city right? Besides, your argument that vegeta could have destroyed earth just like that is a bit flawed I think :) After all, I think we both know how vegeta feels about fighting right? He has his pride, and he doesn't care about what would be the smart thing to do. He always follows his pride and nothing else. I mean hell, in the Buu saga, he killed all the people at the tournament just to make goku fight him. He also risked his life fighting several times even though he didn't have to. At one point, he could have let trunks fight for him because he was worn out, but his pride was too strong - even though it would have been a wise tactical decision, his pride always gets in the way. The example with destroying earth is the same, vegeta wanted to prove to goku that he is stronger, because he is the prince of all saiyans, and that no "lower class" saiyan can match him. Vegeta doesn't care about tactics all too much, he defends his pride and fights to the death. Even if he could retreat from battle or let someone else fight, he still wouldn't do it :) Vegeta and sound tactical decisions don't mix too well ^.-
Mindolin 11-24-07, 08:42 PM	I think I would put Vegeta, at this point, at the low end of Epic. After all, based on how torn up Arlia was, I think it's fair to say it had already lost a fair percentage of its HP, but the mere fact that Vegeta had an ability with enough range to destroy enough of the planet to cause it to self destruct, or implode, or whatever it did. I put Gohan, at this point, at low teens in level, as the only reason he didn't kill the T Rex is so that he could have a source of meat that didn't go bad. In other words, the T Rex was no threat to him, and as it's CR 8, if I remember correctly, then Gohan needs to be in low teens. Nappa would be in High teens, to level 20, as he was strong, but nowhere near as strong as Goku or Vegeta.
TheMonk 11-25-07, 09:48 AM	Yeah that's true. Although actually, Nappa demosished a whole city just by a simple gesture of his hand. That's gotta be epic as well if you ask me. No one can practically just raise their hand and demolish a city, Nappa is pretty much epic too, the low end of epic maybe, but Vegeta I think, is very high in the epic levels. This is the point where things actually get very epic, and everything beyond that is more and more epic. That is, if we were to translate it in D&D terms of course.
Mindolin 11-25-07, 09:03 PM	I saw that as a possible use of the psionic power Energy Burst, with use of widen power. High end of Epic? That is pretty much limitless. At most, Nappa is level 21. Hey, he could have used that trick the CharOp boards came up with for a Locate City Nuke. he and Vegeta could easily pass the save, while many others couldn't.
TheMonk 11-26-07, 08:49 AM	A widened energy burst is only 80 feet radius :P Nappa demolished a whole city, that probably had a radius of like at least several ten thousand feet, so the power wouldn't even come close :) But yeah, there are always tricks, Nappa being lv 21 or so is pretty good I think :)
Nephlite 11-26-07, 12:58 PM	I saw that as a possible use of the psionic power Energy Burst, with use of widen power. High end of Epic? That is pretty much limitless. At most, Nappa is level 21. Hey, he could have used that trick the CharOp boards came up with for a Locate City Nuke. he and Vegeta could easily pass the save, while many others couldn't. Locate coty Nuke doesn't affect buildings only people. It might knock people into buildings (which might destroy them), but that is al.
AncestralRakmakallan 11-26-07, 01:22 PM	Supposing we consider the DBZ guys as being in low epic levels, what level are they reaching later on, for example during the fight with Buu(remember that Spirit Bomb?) or Brolly who is considered an Ultra Super Saiyan? I believe that the levels of all the characters are approximately equal, somewhere around 30 in the end of DBZ and their wondrous achievements being more an issue of techniques used. For example, Goku returns from his training with king Kai to defeat the saiyan threat, only Frieza can destroy a planet th size of Namek or Goku again calling for power to beat up Brolly or kid Buu. That said, it cannot be denied that some spectacular changes such as turning into a Super Saiyan(as Goku did on planet Namek) should probably be associated with a level increase.
Mindolin 11-26-07, 02:07 PM	Yeah, I know that Energy Burst is only about a 60 ft radius, but it's the first thing that came to mind. I think that what is really hard to take into account is the massive increase in stats that the characters gain, which can't be explained by level increases. Especially with the devotion to training in higher levels of gravity, which would really have no effect based on normal D&D. As for Locate City Nuke not working on buildings, maybe it doesn't, but the people slamming into them does. Anyway, I thought I remembered a number of buildings still standing before Nappa does his Bakuhatsuha. I could be mistaken on this, though.
The Ubbergeek 11-26-07, 08:25 PM	You should consider that anime is a large medium... and remember that D&D is a fantasy rpg. So, really, only fantasy characters would fit.. Had anyone adapted characters from classics like Lodoss War, Slayers, Berzerk and all to D&D?
TheMonk 11-27-07, 08:33 AM	Well mindolin, be it as it may, it's hard to determine, but anyone or anything that can demolish a city by just raising their hand is definitely epic :) Training in high gravity rooms is something I love, and something that could be incorporated into D&D, but I think that would be too much lol. It's true that it's hard for DBZ characters to be made in D&D. Meanwhile, I was on the character optimization boards, and found some interesting stuff out about how to make Goku in D&D. You might wanna check out the thread in there, if you are interested.