Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChildofLight 05-10-04, 06:21 PM	I'm just curious to know if I'm the only one. I'd like to know your stories of how you started into roleplaying and the like. . . Personally I've been playing on and off since I was a teenager. People look at me a little cross eyed when I tell them about it, but I usually can explain to them why exactly it isn't "eeeevvvviiiiiiiillllllll" heh. anyway, let me know!
Miles Vorkosigan 05-10-04, 06:30 PM	I'm Lutheran, so I guess I count.(Though my Roman Catholic grandparents would probably diagree on that) My friend got me into playing, he was really into fantasy and that stuff. Myself, I prefer science fiction, so I'm playing this game until they come out with a good sci-fi RPG. I dont really tell many people, simply because the subject never really comes up, but I had a friend who lost a group because their parents told them it was eeeevvviiiiiiillllllll.;) -MVK
Mattux 05-10-04, 06:52 PM	I am Roman Catholic. And I became Catholic AFTER I was playing D&D for a long time. I don't get too many questions about it. I just tell them its fiction and there is nothing evil about it. And Miles most Catholics would consider a Lutheran a Christian. :)
Leibel 05-10-04, 06:52 PM	As a religious Jew who plays I encounter little in the way of DnD is anti-religious. In fact I'm getting the Testemant(Biblical or as you Christians would call it Old Testemant) d20 setting. Can't wait to play a Judge or Prophet or Psalmist. The only slight problem I encounter with the standard DnD game is the multiple dieties thing - but that will soon end when I get Testemant and can play biblical style monotheists vs Polytheists. The only question is can Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings and the rest convert to Judaism. If people do say is DnD evil I just point out that most of the time people play good groups against evil.
Xenocide 05-10-04, 07:00 PM	I'm Mormon and have had no troubles. Most of my group also goes to that church. My dad was a little freaked out about it when I was younger but saw reason very quickly.
OD&D fan 05-10-04, 07:18 PM	I used to game with somebody whose mother was a devout Christian, and when she found out her son was playing she banned him from the game. Nothing we said could change her mind, she was convinced D&D was an occult practice and wouldn't let her son play. So I lost a player, which was a shame. :-( Originally posted by Leibel In fact I'm getting the Testemant(Biblical or as you Christians would call it Old Testemant) d20 setting. blah...??! A biblical campaign setting? Is this a setting you have written yourself or is this a published setting? If so, what company publishes this? The only question is can Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings and the rest convert to Judaism. I'm not jewish and this isn't a place for a thelogical discussion but I would say yes. As long as they study the Torah and obey the law of the prophets, and women have to be baptised (take a dip), men have to take a dip and a snip (you know the drill) :-P.
Lord Nat 05-10-04, 07:31 PM	I'm Ex-Christian. Now MVRT
Leibel 05-10-04, 07:37 PM	The Testemant book is a real d20 add on published by Green Ronin publishing - hard to come by (it took me over a month to find a store that could order it) but it is quite real. Try try the FRP games website which lists literally hundereds of d20 supplements of every kind.
ChildofLight 05-10-04, 07:50 PM	Guys check out the www.consecration-con.org. It's a Christian Science Fictioin, Fantasy, and gaming con. . Which I've been involved in since the foundation. Just a little plug before I answer some of the posts ;-)
ChildofLight 05-10-04, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by Lord Nat I'm Ex-Christian. Now MVRT Heh, I'm curious. MVRT?
ChildofLight 05-10-04, 07:55 PM	Originally posted by Mattux I am Roman Catholic. And I became Catholic AFTER I was playing D&D for a long time. I don't get too many questions about it. I just tell them its fiction and there is nothing evil about it. And Miles most Catholics would consider a Lutheran a Christian. :) Yeah I consider catholics and lutherans christians also. . . Of course I'm Pentecostal so I might be considered on the fringe of Christianity..hehe.. :D
Darth K'Trava 05-10-04, 08:10 PM	No, you ain't the only one.... :D Both me and a friend of mine play and consider ourselves Christian. And there's about two others who go to church regularly (not sure about how devout they are....). More than I do.....(with work and all......) I don't see any problem with playing despite my beliefs as I consider D&D "make believe".
Darth K'Trava 05-10-04, 08:17 PM	Originally posted by Leibel In fact I'm getting the Testemant(Biblical or as you Christians would call it Old Testemant) d20 setting. Originally posted by OD&D fan [Bblah...??! A biblical campaign setting? Is this a setting you have written yourself or is this a published setting? If so, what company publishes this?[/B] Yep. I've only heard of it. Haven't seen it yet.... Personally, I prefer playing fantasy over reality in my games as I don't have to worry about any sort of moral issues.....
Klaus van der Kroft 05-10-04, 08:37 PM	I am a Roman Catholic who has been playing D&D since the age of 9. I learned D&D from another Roman Catholic, along with other three, also Roman Catholic friends. My parents, both Roman Catholics, saw no problem at all in the game, and they actually, belive it is very interesting. Currently, I DM a group of 7 people (6 not including me), all of them Roman Catholics. In fact, three of them are Opus Dei, and love playing it. Actually, even the mother of one of my Opus Dei friends participated in a game with us, and she found it quite fun, fun enough to go and buy the manuals for my friend's little brothers. It is a bit clear that I have not found any kind of intolerance or negativity for playing D&D. As my father said once, when I asked him about the issue of people insisting that D&D and roleplaying games were blasphemous or evil related, "Anyone ignorant enough to belive that these books will teach you how to worship and summon demons has a really bad problem with his faith, as well as his head". And he could make that statement without a single bit of knowledge about the game."It is all common sense" as he said. I could not have said it better.
Murr-Quan Lord #2 05-10-04, 08:50 PM	I'm Latter-Day Saint (Mormon), and I DM for an online group consisting of my brother (same), a Catholic, and ... I don't know what the other is, but his alignment's Chaotic Neutral. I'm pretty sure he's also a Christian, though. We play a very clean game, with no graphic violence or anything. I made the church of Pelor into the Obligatory Fantasy Christian-Analogue (Hey, there's one in every console RPG), and most of the characters go to church regularly. Even the mage. I like examining moral issues in my game, although when I do it it's helping my players find out what the right thing to do is. They're youngish teenagers for the most part, and I think it's more important for them to have their sense of right and wrong reinforced right now than to have it challenged. Personally, though, I love discussing philosophy. Especially with the barmy planars up in Sigil. :) Mount Celestia's much nicer, but hey, I'd be preaching to the choir there ... the angelic choir ...
Neconilis 05-10-04, 08:54 PM	I just thought I'd drop a quick response to say that I'm Catholic and that everyone in my current group is as well. In fact most everyone I've ever gamed with has at least considered themselves Christian. We've all dealt with the problems of small-minded and foolishly hateful people at one time or another but for the most part it's never been a big issue. In fact anyone who actually claims to be a Christian would by definition find it hard to hate anyone and actually follow the teachings of Christ. Anyway, that's my input and don't for one minute think you're the only believer in Jesus out there smiting demons and slaying dragons =)
Darth K'Trava 05-10-04, 09:01 PM	Originally posted by Klaus van der Kroft As my father said once, when I asked him about the issue of people insisting that D&D and roleplaying games were blasphemous or evil related, "Anyone ignorant enough to belive that these books will teach you how to worship and summon demons has a really bad problem with his faith, as well as his head". And he could make that statement without a single bit of knowledge about the game."It is all common sense" as he said. I could not have said it better. Goes to show that some people have some sense.... :D And that's true. If you think that your kids can summon demons and such from these books then there's a crisis of faith goin' on there..... There should be a sit down and chat from both sides on that issue. And the fact that most people play the "good guys". I know that's all I play as I don't think I can think "evil enough" to play an evil character. Despite my "fascination" with such bad guys as Darth Vader, the Blackguard, Cobra (from the GI Joe comics/cartoon), the Imperials from Star Wars......
abisai 05-10-04, 09:53 PM	Roman Catholic firm believer here. No, it was never an issue within my family. A neighbor gave me books when their son went to college. That was about 16 years ago. I'm not giving the books back.
Lord Nat 05-10-04, 09:56 PM	Originally posted by ChildofLight Heh, I'm curious. MVRT? Multi-verse Reincarnation Theory. The main idea is when you die you're soul get's reborn in a random (Or not so random. I don't know all of it ^_^) world in the Multi-verse.
UZI 05-10-04, 10:18 PM	Atheist (formerly: a fully recovered Roman Catholic)...since we're all showing our cards.
Vanigo 05-10-04, 10:42 PM	Originally posted by Murr-Quan Lord #2 I made the church of Pelor into the Obligatory Fantasy Christian-Analogue (Hey, there's one in every console RPG) There's nothing wrong with the Obligatory Fantasy Christian-Analogue, but haven't you ever played any of the Final Fantasy games?
The Axeman 05-10-04, 10:44 PM	Originally posted by UZI Atheist (formerly: a fully recovered Roman Catholic)...since we're all showing our cards. :heehee that's great lol! Well, I'm a Christian-Pagan and I really don't see what the problem with having multiple deities in AD&D is. They aren't real. By being offended by it your saying that they exist and threaten your view of God as the one and ultimate God correct? I'm not trying to start a firestorm here I just don't understand that particular facet... Any input would be respectfully and wholly appreciated.
Jack Daniel 05-10-04, 11:00 PM	Originally posted by Vanigo There's nothing wrong with the Obligatory Fantasy Christian-Analogue, but haven't you ever played any of the Final Fantasy games? Ever played Final Fantasy Tactics?
Teh Lurv 05-10-04, 11:04 PM	Well I am Catholic and play D&D regularly. I got bitten by the RPG bug my first year in college playing 2e. In my whole life, I have ever heard two anti-D&D remarks. The first came from a nun who was my religious teacher in my high school who threw in D&D with sex, alcohol, and drugs as the perils facing America's youth. Other than that, she was a nice, down to earth woman. The other came from a college roommate who asked me why I played a 'racist' game (his only experience with D&D was the D&D movie; I wasn't surprised by his negative attitude.) I was able to explain to him to completely ignore the movie. Other than that, all I have received has been positive responses. I guess I am lucky in that regard.
Lady_Firehawk 05-10-04, 11:29 PM	Yeeeey! I like seeing other Christians on these boards! (If I had to pick a denomination, it would be Lutheran... I'm starting to consider going Catholic, though!) Anywaaaay... been into fantasy for as long as I can remember, so D&D was a logical leap from stuff like Final Fantasy and whatnot. I think it's great to explore certain matters of faith I otherwise would have a difficult time grappling with... but man, do I enjoy playing the villain once in a while! :smirk: As long as said villain gets his (usually her) comeuppance in the end... Now excuse me while I use that Book of Vile Darkness to summon some demons to clean my room! ;) Maybe that blasted d20 will turn up somewhere...
Vanigo 05-10-04, 11:35 PM	Originally posted by Jack Daniel Ever played Final Fantasy Tactics? No, actually, but that's not really the point.
Dartanel 05-11-04, 12:20 AM	I am a non-denominational christian (read: Ex-Catholic) who's been playing since I was in 2nd grade. I was introduced to the game by the two sons of our base's baptist chaplain. :) We used to play fantsy games like Talengard and Ultima (too bad we weren't quite versed in proper floppy storage at the time) on their computer. Eventually they got their hands on the D&D basic set and we started playing. I've never encountered any grief for my playing.
Lord Nat 05-11-04, 12:29 AM	...Wait... Not one person has said Jedi... I am shocked...
ChildofLight 05-11-04, 01:11 AM	Originally posted by Lord Nat ...Wait... Not one person has said Jedi... I am shocked... Not that I'd TELL people I'm a Jedi ;-) You know I grew up in a different time, I suppose. My mom was more shocked at me playing d&d then she was when she caught my friend and I looking at pron :-D I'm glad to see other christians on here also! I didn't know what kind of response I'd get (I wasn't sure if I'd get alot of "YOUR A CHRISTIAN?!!?? YOU SUCK!" type of responses or not..) IF you want, anyone of you my AIM name is: childoflight00. Send me a message either through this board or on here. Mayhaps we can get togethet on an online game or two...
Lord Nat 05-11-04, 01:14 AM	Originally posted by ChildofLight Not that I'd TELL people I'm a Jedi ;-) You know I grew up in a different time, I suppose. My mom was more shocked at me playing d&d then she was when she caught my friend and I looking at pron :-D I'm glad to see other christians on here also! I didn't know what kind of response I'd get (I wasn't sure if I'd get alot of "YOUR A CHRISTIAN?!!?? YOU SUCK!" type of responses or not..) IF you want, anyone of you my AIM name is: childoflight00. Send me a message either through this board or on here. Mayhaps we can get togethet on an online game or two... We don't make fun of people. We are all freaks and geeks so there is no reson to make fun of each other. YA you hear of groups that hate people (Like the Gay guy in that other topic) but none of them seem to ever make it to here.
abisai 05-11-04, 02:07 AM	P.S. I went to Notre Dame (yes, the Fighting Irish College) and rolled dice with Catholics and Baptists. All good. No one ever told us we were evil. I always thought the DnD=evil thing went the way of Glam Rock and Twisted Sister concerts if you know what I mean.....;)
Nived 05-11-04, 04:20 AM	I'm Lutherian, or at least that's what I was raised and I still claim to be one though my church attendance isn't stellar. Honestly I don't know how my pastor would take me playing RPGs, I've never asked. Considering he still reads MAD magazine, however, I don't think he'd get up in arms about it. The particularly interesting thing I wanted to post is where my group runs game. My buddy's basement, whose father is a Presbiterian Pastor. He's a good guy, asks us how our games are going and is an enlightened, openminded, friendly fellow who has no qualms with us playing D&D, Vampire, Hunter, Mage, Orpheus, Call of Cthulhu, or any number of other various RPGs. Though by unspoken agreement we've never ran a Demon: The Fallen game there... that'd just be too weird.
Spongly 05-11-04, 06:47 AM	Originally posted by The Axeman Well, I'm a Christian-Pagan and I really don't see what the problem with having multiple deities in AD&D is. A Christian non-Christian? That's an interesting religion, how on earth does that work? Anyway, my usual gaming group consists of a catholic, a presbyterian, a couple of agnostic types, and a foul heathen (my good self). At the end of the day, I think most of the people with real problems with the game just have problems seperating fantasy and reality, ironically something they also charge roleplayers with a lot of the time.
Thailfi 05-11-04, 08:20 AM	Since we are keeping score I am a practicing Catholic. We play a very clean game, with no graphic violence or anything. I made the church of Pelor into the Obligatory Fantasy Christian-Analogue You should use the Forgotten Realms setting. They already have Christ in their pantheon. They just call him Ilmater to avoid any sticky situations. Read the church dogma as written in the 2e Faiths & Avatars. It is pretty much a paraphrased version of the New Testament.
Count Arioch the 28th 05-11-04, 08:48 AM	I thought Ilmater was based off a Finnish deity? Although I do not deny the similarities of Christ and Ilmater. Yeah, christains play D&D. Why wouldn't we? Of course, most people who call themselves christian ain't christian, so take that how you will.
Dartanel 05-11-04, 09:49 AM	A Christian non-Christian? That's an interesting religion, how on earth does that work? It's possible to believe in the message without believing in the man. I always thought the DnD=evil thing went the way of Glam Rock and Twisted Sister concerts if you know what I mean..... For the most part, but you still find Glam rock and Twisted Sister fan sites on the internet too... :)
Thailfi 05-11-04, 10:59 AM	It's possible to believe in the message without believing in the man. I am not a Bible literalist so I firmly believe that the message was all he ever asked you to believe in.
Darth K'Trava 05-11-04, 02:00 PM	Originally posted by Lord Nat ...Wait... Not one person has said Jedi... I am shocked... Originally posted by ChildofLight Not that I'd TELL people I'm a Jedi ;-) If you do, then I'm gonna have to step and say I'm a Sith Lord! :devil: :D You know I grew up in a different time, I suppose. My mom was more shocked at me playing d&d then she was when she caught my friend and I looking at pron :-D heh. That's as bad as reading slash on the 'net..... My mother didn't say much about my going off and gaming half the night....
Kravell 05-11-04, 03:37 PM	I'm a Christian gamer and a member of the Catholic church. My fellow gamers include four really religious types (lots of church going and Bible study, not sure how much helping fellow man they do) and two who don't say one way or another. I got in trouble more for converting to Catholicism than playing D&D with one fellow Christian until I pointed out the falsehoods contained in some dubious web sites he was perusing. He's all better now. I've played with one agnostic who had to keep convincing himself God wasn't real and no atheisists that I know of. And one of the Christians wants to a be a Sith Lord, go figure. He'd have to get in shape first, though!:) I got some flack in the 80s over D&D but I don't anymore. I did appreciate the blurb on the cover of Dragon when I got published for the first time though. In big letters it proclaimed, "Sell your soul!". Ha! :angel: Ironically, one of my Christian gamer friends does think D&D is occult based (he too has been reading some dubious material). He hasn't been able to explain to me why he games but I think that he believes that as long as he knows D&D is just a fantasy game then he is all right. Gamers are...interesting.;)
ChildofLight 05-11-04, 05:53 PM	Originally posted by Kravell Ironically, one of my Christian gamer friends does think D&D is occult based (he too has been reading some dubious material). He hasn't been able to explain to me why he games but I think that he believes that as long as he knows D&D is just a fantasy game then he is all right. Gamers are...interesting.;) I have a friend who got on to a little for playing d and d. Good christian guy..help me at a drop of a hat. BUT I did point out that he tended to enjoy Grand Theft Auto 3.... that pretty much ended that discussion ;-)
ChildofLight 05-11-04, 06:01 PM	Originally posted by Darth K'Trava If you do, then I'm gonna have to step and say I'm a Sith Lord! :devil: :D Ah, then I see we must duel. *Whips out flaming pink lightsaber.* ...Wait..wrong one, that's my sisters! Honest! *puts it back and whips out day glo orange saber* There we go, I will best you with my brightness! heh. That's as bad as reading slash on the 'net..... My mother didn't say much about my going off and gaming half the night.... What would 'slash' be?
Nived 05-11-04, 06:10 PM	Slash is... well I think I'll let the Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com) do the talking. Generally a term used for fan fiction (fanfic, fanfiction) or fan art fanart). Taking two MALE characters, from a television series, movie, comic, anime, book, etc., and "pairing" them together, usually for sexual acts. Can be rape, love, lust, fetish, romance, dating, incest, or ANYTHING. Writers and artists really use their imagination with slash. NOTE: When describing a 'slash' couple, a slash is used to separate the two. EXAMPLE: Batman/Robin, Superman/Flash, Draco/Harry, etc. The first/second usually denotes sexual dominance...to explain, in a Draco/Harry story, Draco would be the top boy, or giver, and Harry would be the bottom boy, or receiver. See also FEMME SLASH, SEME, UKE... SIDE NOTE: SLASH and YAOI are interchangeable.
WizO_Catoblepas 05-11-04, 06:51 PM	Ok, just a friendly reminder to keep the thread on the subject of D&D and whether religious beliefs affects your gaming. However, if the thread turns into a discussion on religion, then I'm going to have to close it. So far everything is fine - like I said, just a friendly reminder.
Miles Vorkosigan 05-11-04, 07:18 PM	Mattux, just to tell you, my mother has descibed my granmother as "more Catholic than the pope" so visiting her is ...interesting, not because of me, I could be a pagan and she would still spoil me... but she thinks my mother is a "heretic" though my mother doesn't seem to have a problem with this.;) Just to clear that up, now I'll leave-MVK
Yipwyg the Mighty 05-11-04, 07:19 PM	Devout Catholic, soon to be confirmed, spends every penny on DnD supplements. ... Well, that's my bit. *Sits down*
red_queen 05-11-04, 07:26 PM	my friend a serious christian...but the most serious (to a point where it's freaky) dm i've ever seen. i've always found it a bit, for lack of a better word, strange.
WCrawford 05-11-04, 07:59 PM	I was raised in a Presbeterian church and was gaming in elementary school. This was during the time of Tom Hank's "Mazes and Monsters". Now, I'm a real life druid. I've gone back to my historical roots. As far as religion in the game, I prefer to play a game that incorperates D&D religion. Most gaming religions are based loosely on real world religions, like those of ancient Greeks or Egyptian. Those published pantheons that use elements from my religion don't bother me one bit (Oghma is a real god).
Darth K'Trava 05-11-04, 10:44 PM	I'm kinda surprised at the number of Catholics on this thread. It's cool. I consider myself Wesleyan as that's the church I go to. I've been to Methodist churches (my grandmother, before her death last year was a Methodist) and Quaker churches. 'Tis cool though! :D
abisai 05-11-04, 11:24 PM	Originally posted by Dartanel For the most part, but you still find Glam rock and Twisted Sister fan sites on the internet too... :) Exactly, not in mainstream media; not on television, radio, or newspapers. Somewhere someone has an opinion. It's just not as popular as it once may have been. To bring these posts together, gamers everywhere recite after me; "we're not gonna take it, NO, we ain't gonna take it, we're not gonna take it anymore" hahahaha Last point; until Zelda videogames get some bad press I am not buying people are against RPG.:) :D
TheGrandSteward 05-12-04, 01:42 AM	--raises hand--
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 01:49 AM	Originally posted by WizO_Catoblepas Ok, just a friendly reminder to keep the thread on the subject of D&D and whether religious beliefs affects your gaming. However, if the thread turns into a discussion on religion, then I'm going to have to close it. So far everything is fine - like I said, just a friendly reminder. I can understand that. I was just curious to find other Christians, not put anyone else down in anyway. Or have anyone put me down for my beliefs. . . :-D In some places being a Christian is less of an offense then playing the d20 system ;-)
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 01:52 AM	Originally posted by Nived Slash is... well I think I'll let the Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com) do the talking. Thanks. I can understand why I've never heard of it now. :-D
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 01:54 AM	Originally posted by red_queen my friend a serious christian...but the most serious (to a point where it's freaky) dm i've ever seen. i've always found it a bit, for lack of a better word, strange. I've found that everyone has something strange about them. We all suffere from different levels of insanity ;-)
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 01:58 AM	Originally posted by abisai To bring these posts together, gamers everywhere recite after me; "we're not gonna take it, NO, we ain't gonna take it, we're not gonna take it anymore" hahahaha [/B] ROCK ON DUDE!! *air guitar solo*
Lord Psynister 05-12-04, 04:31 AM	I'm LDS and have been playing/DMing for nearly 14 years. I started when I picked up a 1st edition AD&D PHB at a garage sale for $0.25. Me and my friends then went and picked up the other books and we've been playing ever since.
Stormraven 05-12-04, 07:48 AM	I play with a group that is christian, morman, athiest, wiccan, and agnostic. Our group I think represents a great mixing pot of society. Only thing were missing is muslim. One of the guys is also in Tao so we got some eastern philospohy people too! My point is that if anything it is DnD that brings us together and allows us to work together in peace and without personal conflict. We can see through our characters that even though the faiths are different they are all pointing to the same direction.. And any christian zealots that have blamed DND for social attrocities in the past should understand that people do crazier crap durring a soccer game than a DnD game.. If you want to say what game is evil... look at professional sports before you blame a game that encourages the battle of good over evil..
Art_Tillary 05-12-04, 08:10 AM	Originally posted by Leibel (snip) The only slight problem I encounter with the standard DnD game is the multiple dieties thing - but that will soon end when I get Testemant and can play biblical style monotheists vs Polytheists. The only question is can Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings and the rest convert to Judaism. (snip) They better be able to convert. I've got an entire world that is being planned around that. AT
Ronin Mantis 05-12-04, 08:18 AM	I think that I'm a first..... Church of England I was born and raised in England and then moved to Texas... Major Culture Shock!! Any of you that may be from Texas know that it is called the "Bible Belt". In grade school, a mother of a friend of mine took all his D&D boks ad burned them b/c Jerry and the 700 Club told her they were evil. This is the same guy that said that Skeletor from He-Man and the Masters of the Universe was the Devil Incarnate. Anyway.... She actually took the books and put them in a trashcan and burned them while praying for her son. He was quickly moved to a private school. This is the most extreme case I have ever heard of. Mostly the response I get if/when people find out that I play is more based on the "you live at home with your mother in the basement and have tape wrapped around your glasses"...sterotype. In actuality, I'm a Police Officer and have a beautiful wife and 6 1/2 m/o son..... I have a good life and I play D&D as a diversion from the "reality show" that is my job. Oh and I play a Psion: Shaper that is a follower of Sardior.
Art_Tillary 05-12-04, 08:28 AM	My kids and I play. We tried to let other neighbor kids get involved, but it fizzled. Mostly I didn't have time to run it. My youngest has a friend who's parents said the friend could not play D&D. The family is heavily involved in Pat Robertson's organization as far as I can tell. Trying to decide wether it would be ethical to ask the friend's parents if the kid could play a Sailor Moon based Roleplaying gamem or d20 Modern. Technically it might not be D&D, but it's still role playing. AT
Yorlum 05-12-04, 08:41 AM	Originally posted by ChildofLight ROCK ON DUDE!! *air guitar solo* You're Worthless and Weak! :)
diaglo 05-12-04, 09:21 AM	Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. i'm unitarian universalist.:D
Ronin Mantis 05-12-04, 10:42 AM	diaglo, I once took an on-line Faith assessment.... I think it was BELIEFNET.COM or something.... It told me my beliefs were aligned with Unitarian Universalism.
CuCulain42 05-12-04, 11:20 AM	Non-Denominational Christian, and a Preacher's Kid, 20years playing and counting.
DaTedinator 05-12-04, 11:27 AM	*raises hand* Evangelical Free. :)
Joni-san 05-12-04, 11:48 AM	*turns hands towards the earth* *starts digging a hole* *waits in hole* Try guessing what I am :D *casts summon deck-chair and popcorn and then casts protection from flames* I'm not being disruptive... :P
Darth K'Trava 05-12-04, 11:50 AM	An interesting question for all the posters here: What kind of characters do you play? Me, I play alot of clerics. One paladin, a ranger/cleric and a fighter. All worshippers of one god or another.
Ronin Mantis 05-12-04, 12:17 PM	I play an Elan, Psion: Shaper
Spongly 05-12-04, 01:37 PM	It always amazes me how many different varieties of Christianity there are, and how they all need different names. I mean, looking from the outside, isn't it all rather similar? Can't you all just agree to disagree on minor points and get on with what's really important?
SputnikCorp 05-12-04, 01:57 PM	i'm a liberal protestant...meaning i'm cool with everything and i believe in christ. my best friend is an asetru and my girlfriend is pagan and we all game together. my mother showed some concern years ago (during the 80s D&D witchhunts) when i first started gaming but she believes in me and my descision so she's alright with D&D now.
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 05:27 PM	Originally posted by Darth K'Trava An interesting question for all the posters here: What kind of characters do you play? Me, I play alot of clerics. One paladin, a ranger/cleric and a fighter. All worshippers of one god or another. Usually I play a Chaotic Good Ranger. Half/elf. (Well thats the last character I played.) I tend towards chaotic good characters more then lawful good. Guess it reflects my sense of things more then anything else... I don't usually play Pure magic users. To interested in hand to hand and ranged combat I think. ;-)
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Ronin Mantis I think that I'm a first..... Church of England Church of England.. CS Lewis right? I dig Mr. Lewis' writings.. Unfortunately there are people in many denominations that would burn D and D books. Never sat rigth with me, however. Ah well. . .The kid will probably dive head first into things he 'shouldn't' touch when he reaches college ;-)
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 05:34 PM	Originally posted by Art_Tillary They better be able to convert. I've got an entire world that is being planned around that. AT I don't see why they wouldn't. People of all races and types have free will right? heh. I'd like to see that world btw. It intrigues me :-D
Darth K'Trava 05-12-04, 05:35 PM	My epic cleric of Torm from the forgotten realms tends to at times think of herself as a fighter alot. You'd find her casting a Flame Strike spell here and there and then getting into the middle of the fray. She's probably the most liberal NG priest there is..... ;) She's not the diplomatic type, especially around evil; preferring to let her Holy Greatsword do the talkin' for her! :devil: And I'd say that none of my other characters are much on the diplomacy bit either. Except for the paladin, they all have fairly average charisma scores. Even with the paladin, it's more looks than "presence" for her. She only had to talk the party out of danger once but that was the crazy fighter's fault for stickin' his nose in where it didn't belong. All of my characters are neutral good with the notable exception of the paladin (for obvious reasons). I guess that the alignment closest to mine. With a bit of chaotic thrown in for 'flavor'. :D
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 05:38 PM	Originally posted by Art_Tillary My kids and I play. We tried to let other neighbor kids get involved, but it fizzled. Mostly I didn't have time to run it. My youngest has a friend who's parents said the friend could not play D&D. The family is heavily involved in Pat Robertson's organization as far as I can tell. Trying to decide wether it would be ethical to ask the friend's parents if the kid could play a Sailor Moon based Roleplaying gamem or d20 Modern. Technically it might not be D&D, but it's still role playing. AT It's weird.. a lot of parents that won't let their kids play D&D won't blink at video games like final fantasy or Grand Theft Auto. I think Pat Robertson has a good heart, but he tends to make blanket statemetns about things without really researching the issues. Ah well. . . :-D OF course I know nonchristian people that think anyone that Role Plays are nuts also so...
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 05:41 PM	Originally posted by Yorlum You're Worthless and Weak! :) :-D Nah I just enjoy Bill and Ted movies. Besides I can actually shred with a REAL guitar.. everybody say it with me.. OOOOOOOOOOOOO AAAAAAAAAAAAHHH.. hehe
ChildofLight 05-12-04, 05:46 PM	Originally posted by Spongly It always amazes me how many different varieties of Christianity there are, and how they all need different names. I mean, looking from the outside, isn't it all rather similar? Can't you all just agree to disagree on minor points and get on with what's really important? Well when you get a group of humans together.. on any subject really, they don't agree with each other one much. Read the notes that were taken during the creation of the US Constitution.. Shoot just look at an average RPG gaming night ;-) Besides Christians do tend to agree with what's really important. It's the little stuff that often gets in the way.
Art_Tillary 05-12-04, 10:48 PM	Originally posted by ChildofLight I don't see why they wouldn't. People of all races and types have free will right? heh. I'd like to see that world btw. It intrigues me :-D Oceana (http://www.geocities.com/sailor_tech) Look for the Oceana link on the main page. It's woefully out of date with regards to my work on it. I don't think the Jewish Dwarves idea have made it to the web site. I have an issue that maybe folks can help me with. I'll try and post it in a day or so in a different thread. Not sure if the question is acceptable for the Boards since it involves historical & current real religions. AT
Raven Dark 05-13-04, 06:04 AM	I'm a Christian roleplayer (nondenominational), but my family is Presbyterian and I was raised amongst Presbyterians. I first gained an interest in roleplaying when my big brother, Ryan, showed me his friend's 2nd Edition Monster Manual. I went through the whole book looking at the pictures and even reading some of the text (I was maybe 9 years old). He even had me create a halfling knifefighter/dart thrower character which I never got ot play. After that, I was hooked. I "roleplayed" without books and dice at my school with my friends for the next two years. It became very popular. When I turned 12, I bought my own 2nd Edition books and started hosting tabletop roleplaying games with my friends at home. When I was 13, my big brother and his friends (who never roleplayed with us anyway) all moved away and lived happily ever after. Unfortunately this left our region (our little town of Trenton as well as neighboring towns such as Bell and Newberry) without any DMs or serious roleplayers. When I was 14, I bought my 3rd Edition books and started the Great Revival of roleplaying within my neigborhood. Now, all of my close friends roleplay, and many of their friends' friends' friends are getting into it as well. Our group alone plays Alternity (Stardrive), D20 Modern (Urban Arcana), Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 (Dragonlance & Forgotten Realms), & StarWars (Revised Edition only) each week. Since then (I am now 19 going on 20), it has become much more well known (if not entirely accepted) in our community and still goes on strong today. My original players I used to play with in the school courtyard have ALL started there own roleplaying groups with their own players and are spreading the hobby to others (be they Christian or not). I have been involved in roleplaying for over 10 years now. It is as much a part of my life as my religion (although my religion takes higher priority over any game). I also happen to be in training as a Youth Pastor and am currently dating a Pastor's daughter (whom I also intend to marry some day). I see no signs of losing my roleplaying interest any time soon (both my pastor and my GF are fairly accepting of my hobbies and have even attempted on several occasions to incorporate it into their church). EDIT: My past and current group of roleplayers include 8 Christians (5 of which are hardcore Christians), 1 agnostic, 1 goth, & 2 of unknown faith.
Ravenstar 05-13-04, 08:50 AM	Well, it looks like I'm an oddity here, since I am Orthodox. I've been playing since the game was in a white box.
ChildofLight 05-13-04, 10:16 AM	Originally posted by Ravenstar Well, it looks like I'm an oddity here, since I am Orthodox. I've been playing since the game was in a white box. Have I mentioned I'm Pentecostal? I don't know if I've seen any of those here either ;-) But it is truely awesome to hear all the tales that are told. Give me hope :-D hehe.
Yorlum 05-13-04, 10:19 AM	Methodist here. First one I've seen, which is kinda odd, since we're the 3rd largest denomination in America. I have not been shunned, excommunicated, nor accused of heresy/blasphemy for playing either. Being a nerd and a geek, yes, but that's hardly due to my religion.
Arashi Ravenblade 05-13-04, 11:12 AM	Im a nondenominational christian. been playing d&d since 1997. My grandfather and two of my uncles are both ministers.
saturnman 05-13-04, 12:11 PM	Practicing Roman Catholic (though I'm more philosophically predisposed toward Unitarianism) cut my teeth on 1st edition with some altar boy friends. Played 2nd ed. Twightlight 2000 (modern) WEG's Starwars and so on. My current group is a mixed bag, some are religious some are not, kinda like the world. Actually for a while I was in the most politically correct group in the world, like 4 different races, 3 different sexual orientations We've since shrank, but I still stay in touch. Play D&D, meet interesting people.
WizO_Sith 05-13-04, 12:32 PM	My personal beliefs are not really an appropriate topic for discussion here (as I'm a moderator and I don't want to open the door to any charges of me treating folks differently because I may agree or disagree with their beliefs), but I will say I've encountered gamers who had strong beliefs (and not always religious ones - Don't get me started on the Rolemaster fanatic who was in the KKK) and used their gaming as a platform to prosletyze those beliefs. Which is, of course, their right. But I tend to shy away in any event as the whole practice strikes me the wrong way most of the time (I showed up to game, not for a morality lesson or a passion play). But that's me. I know some gamers who love the practice.
Umar 05-13-04, 01:10 PM	Here we have a Southern Baptist who was taught how to play by an older brother who subsequently went to seminary. Our best line of defense for any of like-minded faith who didn't 'get' D+D was to point out that two of the most influential writers of 20th century fantasy literature--J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis--were both Christians, and nobody can deny the influence both of them had on making D+D what it is. One 'conservative,right-wing fundamentalist' in this corner...pleasure to meet you all :D
ChildofLight 05-13-04, 05:34 PM	Originally posted by WizO_Sith My personal beliefs are not really an appropriate topic for discussion here (as I'm a moderator and I don't want to open the door to any charges of me treating folks differently because I may agree or disagree with their beliefs), but I will say I've encountered gamers who had strong beliefs (and not always religious ones - Don't get me started on the Rolemaster fanatic who was in the KKK) and used their gaming as a platform to prosletyze those beliefs. Which is, of course, their right. But I tend to shy away in any event as the whole practice strikes me the wrong way most of the time (I showed up to game, not for a morality lesson or a passion play). But that's me. I know some gamers who love the practice. Well I started this thread because being a RPG Gamer is considered odd enough in society, but being a Christian often adds to that. There have been times where I tell people I'm a christian and I get the whole "rolling eyes in the back of the head" while they lauched into a spiel about how what I believe is (Insert whatever you believe about it here.) Often if I had met someone that disagreed with me and treated them like that, it would be considred rude but I'm suppose to not mind being treated like that myself, I suppse.. It's nice, therefore, to find people of similar thinking that have similar tastes. To be involved n a group where you don't have to worry about offending someone because of what you are, is cool. But I must say I've been impressed that there hasn't been any flame or hate wars on this thread coming from any direction. Roleplaying groups I've been in have been pretty opened minded and havn't derided me (well openly ;-) because of what I believe. I try to stick to that myself, since life is to complicated to let bitterness and dislike build up in your life.
ChildofLight 05-13-04, 05:37 PM	Originally posted by Umar Here we have a Southern Baptist who was taught how to play by an older brother who subsequently went to seminary. Our best line of defense for any of like-minded faith who didn't 'get' D+D was to point out that two of the most influential writers of 20th century fantasy literature--J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis--were both Christians, and nobody can deny the influence both of them had on making D+D what it is. One 'conservative,right-wing fundamentalist' in this corner...pleasure to meet you all :D I'm finding more and more minister's that Role Play. In fact I game with 2 right now and am about to start up a Shadowrun campaign with another. I think it's cool ;-)
Lu Baihu 05-15-04, 01:08 AM	Originally posted by Umar One 'conservative,right-wing fundamentalist' in this corner...pleasure to meet you all :D Hello, Umar! :angel: Edit: I've heard on some Catholic weblogs that C.S. Lewis converted to Catholicism eventually on Tolkien's insistence, and Tolkien demanded it of his fiancee. As for me -- I joke that I'm still busy reading Exodus :P I'm a "Godster", as I put it, since I'm not 100%-believing-any-time-all-the-time in Jesus' divinity and don't want to fake belief, but believe in a God who is more active than a Deist would believe. However, I'm extremely Catholic-leaning, have a habit of "attending" or touring cathedrals (half of it for "rating" the liturgy), and read extensively about as many aspects of Catholicism as I can; for these reasons, I also like to play St. Cuthbert followers, and one of my "import to D&D" characters is normally a devout Roman Catholic :)
Raiden the Juggalo 05-15-04, 01:37 AM	So why is it that when i post a thread about my religion it gets locked, but christians can push theirs freely and openly, not that I am not part christian, but still. Its like these right wing bible thumpers can THUMP wherever they want, and we make a whisper about our somewhat different religion and we are scolded for it.
rocksalt1 05-15-04, 02:20 AM	Christian here. I've been playing and running games since the 80's. Never had any grief from others besides a few uneducated comments. I prefer to run campaigns where the gods play an active part in the world. It always amazes me how many different varieties of Christianity there are, and how they all need different names. I mean, looking from the outside, isn't it all rather similar? Can't you all just agree to disagree on minor points and get on with what's really important? This shouldn't amaze you too much. Every major religon on Earth is splintered into numerous denominations and permutations not just Chrisitanity.
Joni-san 05-15-04, 04:47 AM	However it seems like Christianity has the largest amount of denomination, and some of them differ in name only (note: most seem to be protestant). Allthough I guess that Hinduism might have an equaly great variety (School textbook: "as many varieties as there are villages in India") Eh. I realy don't care either way, as long as they don't bother me or go out and say that the world was created in 6 days or that science doesn't work or something like that. Allthough I do have a funny anecdote: A friend of mine who's Christian claims to have found a loophole for every Biblical law. And he also claims he turned playing H-games into "The SAcrament", note the capital SA. And before anyone shouts "no true..." I'll say "No True Scottsman". And besides, that guy is basicaly a black-hole for wierdness. (His explanations for his beliefs make my head spinn) I do however see a *click* comming soon. It allways does. Joni-sans law: Any discussion on Real Life religion and/or Sexuality will inadvertedly result in the thread being locked in a forum dedicated to gaming. If said forum is hosted or owned by a International Corporation. Joni-san, member 307333 of the EAC :D
ChildofLight 05-15-04, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by Joni-san Eh. I realy don't care either way, as long as they don't bother me or go out and say that the world was created in 6 days or that science doesn't work or something like that. A Joni-sans law: Any discussion on Real Life religion and/or Sexuality will inadvertedly result in the thread being locked in a forum dedicated to gaming. If said forum is hosted or owned by a International Corporation. Joni-san, member 307333 of the EAC :D Well we are not here to debate about whether anyone believes in Christianity or not. I just posted this to find other christians, not argue with people about what I believe is right or wrong. I certainly hope that this previous post doesn't close this thread down, because that what seems to be at the heart of it. And please, people don't start arguing with anyone on here. No reason to really. There are plenty of other forums to go to and argue the right and wrong of things ;-)
Web_Dancer 05-15-04, 06:55 PM	So why is it that when i post a thread about my religion it gets locked, but christians can push theirs freely and openly, not that I am not part christian, but still. Its like these right wing bible thumpers can THUMP wherever they want, and we make a whisper about our somewhat different religion and we are scolded for it. Because your thread was turning into a flame war, that's why. There have been no flames on this topic, and that's why it is still open. Pres. Christian BTW:)
rockfall22 05-15-04, 07:16 PM	yeah... there at least 4 christians in our group, myself included. We have taken flak, but we've tought tolerance to those who don't understand.
ChildofLight 05-15-04, 09:17 PM	Originally posted by Raiden the Juggalo So why is it that when i post a thread about my religion it gets locked, but christians can push theirs freely and openly, not that I am not part christian, but still. Its like these right wing bible thumpers can THUMP wherever they want, and we make a whisper about our somewhat different religion and we are scolded for it. I see no thumping here. Just people trying to find other people of similar interests. No flames, no preaching, just gamers looking for gamers of a certain type. I'm sure it happens in other parts of the wizards.com forum, but on this particuliar thread on this particuliar time it happens to be Christians wanting to find Christians.. To Quote Ted "Theadore" Logan "Woah" And remember "Be Excellent to each other!"
ChildofLight 05-15-04, 09:21 PM	Originally posted by Web_Dancer Because your thread was turning into a flame war, that's why. There have been no flames on this topic, and that's why it is still open. Pres. Christian BTW:) Yeah I hate flame wars. I've never seen a flame war change any person's mind in my experiance. "Soft words turn away wrath" and all that. People tend to listen better when there isn't any yelling or forced persuasion involved. I'm guilty of being invovled in some massive flames, but anymore I try not to.. no point really. BTW Pres = pres b tyrian? Sorry the spelling eludes me at the moment ;-)
priest of blipdoolpoolp 05-15-04, 11:37 PM	I used to be a stout christian before I started playing D&D, now I worship Orcus and love evil... Kidding- it's all good- but for those Christian players out there, I know how hard it can be when you get flack from 'others of the flock' who are more than happy to declare something evil when they don't understand it. Roleplaying forever!
Wotc_Mark 05-16-04, 01:13 AM	I started playing D&D with a few cousins and my brothers when I was 12 or 13 and eventually added some friends from the neighborhood. One of those kids went on to seminary school and became a priest in the catholic church. He precided over both of my brothers marriage cerimonies. Ironically or maybee appropriately he played a cleric. MJ :cool:
Joni-san 05-16-04, 08:18 AM	To ChildofLight: I'm sorry If I apeared to be a bit hostile. It was not my intention. :( Yeah, I agree with you. No need to be argumentive about religion 'n stuff on the WOTC boards, because that is reserved for the IIDB by invitation through PM :P :D And I agree with whoever who quoted Bill & Ted: "Be excellent to eachother" :D
ChildofLight 05-16-04, 11:51 AM	Originally posted by Joni-san To ChildofLight: I'm sorry If I apeared to be a bit hostile. It was not my intention. :( Yeah, I agree with you. No need to be argumentive about religion 'n stuff on the WOTC boards, because that is reserved for the IIDB by invitation through PM :P :D And I agree with whoever who quoted Bill & Ted: "Be excellent to eachother" :D Hey no problem man! It's all good ;-) That was me btw, I just rewatched Bill and Ted yesterday and thought I would pass on some of thier wisdom :-D
Wizard 05-16-04, 11:58 AM	Yeah, I'm Mormon, and a lot of gamers are surprised that we're allowed to play D&D. But Jamis Buck, the guy who made those oh-so-helpful character/treasure/dungeon/town generators, is hosted at byu.edu, so I can only assume...
Web_Dancer 05-16-04, 03:14 PM	BTW Pres = pres b tyrian? Yep:)
ChildofLight 05-16-04, 04:47 PM	Originally posted by Wizard Yeah, I'm Mormon, and a lot of gamers are surprised that we're allowed to play D&D. But Jamis Buck, the guy who made those oh-so-helpful character/treasure/dungeon/town generators, is hosted at byu.edu, so I can only assume... Hey can you send me that link? I'd like to take a look. Gracias!
ChildofLight 05-16-04, 04:50 PM	Originally posted by Web_Dancer Yep:) Wow.. We have over a hundred posts on this subject. And it has been non flaming and friendly! That is awesome I think. I didn't know what would happen when I posted this question. It has turned out better then expected. Congrats to all involved! :-D So where do we go from here?
Wizard 05-16-04, 05:18 PM	Buck's generator is here, (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/dungeon.cgi) though he's no longer hosted at BYU.
newrad90 05-16-04, 06:50 PM	im a fairly liberal presbyterian so ive never had any conflicts with the game, however i live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama which means i get **** all the time from bible beaters, but i generally ignore them and think its funny
Darth K'Trava 05-16-04, 08:10 PM	Originally posted by priest of blipdoolpoolp I used to be a stout christian before I started playing D&D, now I worship Orcus and love evil... Kidding- it's all good- but for those Christian players out there, I know how hard it can be when you get flack from 'others of the flock' who are more than happy to declare something evil when they don't understand it. Roleplaying forever! So now you worship Blipdoolpoolp, right? :P :D Cause we all know Orcus is no god! ;)
ChildofLight 05-17-04, 12:09 AM	Originally posted by Wizard Buck's generator is here, (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/dungeon.cgi) though he's no longer hosted at BYU. Gracias! This is a pretty nifty deal.....
ChildofLight 05-17-04, 12:11 AM	Originally posted by Darth K'Trava So now you worship Blipdoolpoolp, right? :P :D Cause we all know Orcus is no god! ;) WOAH man...I dunno about Blipdoolpoolp.. I mean.. he's "Da Man!" .... heh anyway have any of you heard Dead Ale Wives D and D material? Man it is funny!!!
Yorlum 05-17-04, 08:08 AM	Originally posted by ChildofLight WOAH man...I dunno about Blipdoolpoolp.. I mean.. he's "Da Man!" Isn't Blipdoolpoolp female? So "Da Woman!"?
crazysamaritan 05-17-04, 11:02 AM	Originally posted by ChildofLight anyway have any of you heard Dead Ale Wives D and D material? Man it is funny!!! I'm collecting marterial such as that for my sig now. Roman Catholic, I figured this thread was going to degenerate within a week. :mymy: It's still here, & still peaceful.
white lotus 05-17-04, 10:53 PM	i am 14 am a dm a christian and not allowed to play diablo explain that:confused:
builtLordtough 05-18-04, 04:21 AM	i'm 18 and i am a non-denominational christian and i DM a game for a group of friends who go to my church. my fiance, (19), my sister (13), my fiance's brother, (16), and one of our friends, (15) our group having 3 girls is pretty intriguing, but that AND all being christians? i am sure it is rare indeed.
Overdog 05-18-04, 04:50 AM	I am roman catholic, but I have to admit, that I am not very religious any more. Alltough it has nothing to do with roleplaying. Of the four other players in my group, three are also catholic and one is a protestant. I have never had any real problems with other people because I am a roleplayer. I think the reason is, that only few people know and/or care about roleplaying around here.
Yorlum 05-18-04, 07:43 AM	Originally posted by white lotus i am 14 am a dm a christian and not allowed to play diablo explain that:confused: Computer games stunt intellectual growth :) Stick with PnP, you'll go far.
white lotus 05-18-04, 10:45 AM	I cant play it anymore anyway my good computer was hit by lightning.5 TIMES I had my own clan and everything.{runs and sobs}
Yorlum 05-18-04, 11:04 AM	Originally posted by white lotus I cant play it anymore anyway my good computer was hit by lightning.5 TIMES I had my own clan and everything.{runs and sobs} See? God hates Diablo, He Smote your PC! Sorry 'bout that White Lotus...
white lotus 05-18-04, 11:17 AM	Actually i think he really did. Imean 5 times dang:sad:
Darth K'Trava 05-18-04, 01:11 PM	Originally posted by builtLordtough i'm 18 and i am a non-denominational christian and i DM a game for a group of friends who go to my church. my fiance, (19), my sister (13), my fiance's brother, (16), and one of our friends, (15) our group having 3 girls is pretty intriguing, but that AND all being christians? i am sure it is rare indeed. ::snicker:: Love your screen name! :D
crazysamaritan 05-18-04, 01:27 PM	Originally posted by white lotus Actually i think he really did. Imean 5 times dang:sad: :rofl:
builtLordtough 05-18-04, 03:05 PM	Originally posted by Darth K'Trava ::snicker:: Love your screen name! :D thankies! we used it as the theme of our mexico missions trip that our church's highschool group went on to build houses for underpriveleged Mexican families. we even made water bottles with my own version of the builtLordtough logo
Manshoon Prime 05-19-04, 10:46 AM	Well, I'm a Wiccan myself (formerly non-denominational Christian). I started playing D&D my sophomore year in high school with a group of buddies. When I was a christian, I often felt a lot of guilt, that I was bad, for playing D&D due to the Bible verses that said something along the lines "thou shall not practice sorcery" or "thou shall not suffer a witch to live." It didn't help that my mom (almost a fanatic herself) pressured me to get rid of those "books filled with witchcraft and the Devil's language". But I realized later on that life was meant to be lived, full of freedom and all the happiness you can find, and that I had every right to play a game that brought me much enjoyment. Nowadays, when I tell people that I'm a Wiccan and that I play D&D, they just go, "that makes sense." Like Paganism and D&D go hand-in-hand. :angel:
Hengwrt Ellesmere 05-19-04, 01:17 PM	Catholic here, raised Lutheran, so I'm well versed in both the text and the tradition. I learned D&D from my dad and his gamer friends who went to our church. That was before the witch-hunts though. All my gamer friends in high school were also Christian too. I've played with Wiccans before, and they all say that D&D is much more Christian than pagan. The Tolkienesque fantasy genre is saturated with Catholic symbols, and it doesn't take much to strip it down to an explicit biblical allegory like Narnia for Protestants either. Some aspects of White Wolf's World of Darkness are clearly new-age in philosophy (so they'd be most familiar to Wiccans or secularists, or to Hindus or Native Americans whose traditions the new-age draws on most). Other parts of White Wolf are clearly Christian though, particularly the Dark Ages (I suspect the writers are Baptist or Lutheran given their attitudes toward the inherent goodness yet institutional corruption of the medieval church, and the themes of repentance and redemption). I'm currently writing my Ph.D. dissertation at Notre Dame on the Latin literature of Anglo-Saxon England, and one of my texts is a book called the Liber Monstrorum. This is a bit like the Monster Manual, except without the stats. Medieval Christians were very interested in monsters and magic, and it wasn't always as something to fear or condemn. Monks used to debate about whether it would be possible to send missionaries to the lands inhabited by centaurs and dragons to convert these strange but rational souls. Others used the supposed existence of certain monsters like the Gryphon to argue various theological points: if the Gryphon could be both true bird and true beast, Christ could therefore be both true God and true Man. Similarly, they were curious about supernatural phenomena, to determine whether they were gifts from God or sorcery from the devil. Astrology was condemned not because of its pagan origins (you'd have to condemn pretty much everything by that standard) but because it denied the freedom of the will, and also could be proven false. The church thought of it more as a fraud than as an occult practice, sort of like fad diets--not immoral, just foolish. Actually, astrology was approved for medical uses by the church up until the development of modern medicine. Christians denied that the stars had any spiritual power over their actions or destinies, but they believed that they could exert gravitational forces on their bodies, like the moon on the tides. We now know that it is not the stars that do this, but rather the angle of the earth toward the sun, which causes certain people to experience certain moods and perceptions at different times of year through Seasonal Affective Disorder. If I lived in the year 1000, I'd talk about my mood swings not in terms of ultraviolet light and serotonin, but in terms of the houses of Aries and Scorpio, yet for all practial purposes it would be the same. Back on topic, I've found that in the Catholic church D&D is fairly accepted. They might think it's kind of dorky, but Jesus hung out with the outcasts of his society, so Catholics would be warned against judging gamers for our awkwardness. Actually the fact that we have a reputation for not having sex goes a long way in recommending us as role models for young Catholics, even if its not by choice. I could definitely see Opus Dei groups getting into D&D, since they stress the importance of hanging out together around the dinner table. My friends who lived at the OD house for a while might have stayed longer if the regulars were playing D&D after dinner rather than arguing over obscure points of Thomistic theology (which is sooo 13th century--even the Pope has moved on to phenomenology, and he's pretty conservative). In fact, given that the Catholic Church issued a statement declaring that attacks on Pokemon for supposed occultism were totally unfounded, and that Cardinal Ratzinger is reputed to be a Harry Potter fan, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the higher-ups were in fact gamers themselves. Maybe that's why clerics are so overpowered in 3ed and 3.5--they Pope plays one and wants to be 1337!
Thadius 05-19-04, 03:13 PM	I consider myself a christian, I was raised Baptist. I've been gaming since I've been 17. I'm currently involved with a game store here in Toledo owned by a friend of mine who is a minister. He uses his store as an outreach to all sorts of folks, and the store is always packed. Oh, and he's Goth (as is his wife), with some great tats! Anyway, no hassles for me or my friends. ;)
DwelleroftheDeep 05-19-04, 04:44 PM	I am a catholic christian, but here in southern Minnesota nobody cares that I play D&D any more then if I was to play some other club type game.
ChildofLight 05-19-04, 08:23 PM	Originally posted by DwelleroftheDeep I am a catholic christian, but here in southern Minnesota nobody cares that I play D&D any more then if I was to play some other club type game. That's not how it was for me growing up. I'm tlad it's changing now... For Roleplaying in general, not just D and D. I mean shoot, I may be banned from this forum, but there are OTHER cool RPG's besides dand. :-D
Lu Baihu 05-19-04, 08:41 PM	Manshoon Prime, I'd jokingly wonder if you were raised Westboro Baptist, but I'll skip that :D Hengwrt... THE Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger? :eek: I had no idea, though, regarding the Liber Monstrorum! Where's your sources? This is all very new to me :angel:
Darth K'Trava 05-19-04, 08:52 PM	Originally posted by builtLordtough thankies! we used it as the theme of our mexico missions trip that our church's highschool group went on to build houses for underpriveleged Mexican families. we even made water bottles with my own version of the builtLordtough logo Kewl! I'd like to see that logo.... ;)
TheEmperor 05-19-04, 09:47 PM	People of all races and types have free will right? Elves have free will? Wow. I learned something new today. I always find something that speaks to me in most religions.
Darth K'Trava 05-20-04, 10:13 PM	Originally posted by TheEmperor Elves have free will? Wow. I learned something new today. I always find something that speaks to me in most religions. I guess it comes from sleepin' in trees..... ;)
Mattimeo78368 05-20-04, 11:36 PM	when I saw the topic I knew this was something i'd have to post in :o) My entire group of 8 go to the same church evry sunday, have bible study after d&d and go to youth group every wednesday.... except me :o) im the only person in my group that doesn't believe in god so im the odd-man out in this "evil" game :o)
Grayson 05-20-04, 11:54 PM	Originally posted by white lotus i am 14 am a dm a christian and not allowed to play diablo explain that:confused: Uh.. might have something to do with running around in Hell, and fighting Diablo (that's Spanish for "Devil" btw). The pentagrams and huge amounts of blood and gore probably don't help either ;) (Edit becuz spellign is hardd)
The_EvilDungeon_Master 05-21-04, 12:22 AM	The Game Diablo is understandable... But I don't see how playing D&D can really harm you. The way I see it, nothing is bad for you... Except when taken too far. Anything taken too far is a bad thing. For example... You have something seen as bad (Which I agree, it is): Greed. Greed taken too far turns in to desire... Turns in to acting out that greed and desire. You have something seen as good: Freedom. Freedom taken too far turns to Anarchy... Anarchy turns to chaos. Oh yeah, I'm a Buddhist by the way, and I still play D&D. Oh yeah, you should really just ignore my name and sig during this.
Teh Lurv 05-21-04, 12:22 AM	Originally posted by Mattimeo78368 have bible study after d&d heh, that is definately a post-D&D group activity I haven't heard of before. Usually gaming groups I am associated with follow up with cheap food or breakfast at Bickfords.
Teh Lurv 05-21-04, 12:28 AM	Originally posted by Hengwrt Ellesmere Maybe that's why clerics are so overpowered in 3ed and 3.5--they Pope plays one and wants to be 1337! Hengwrt, great post. :thumbsup: An interesting read.
ryaniscool35 05-21-04, 01:19 AM	I still find it weird that my mom was more shocked when i told her i wanted to become Catholic than when i told her i started playing D&D.:confused:
Low-key Locksmith 05-21-04, 01:35 AM	I've been playing since i was 14. The issue of D&D being a "evil" game has never really come up. I mean think about it for a second your fighting the demons and the devils. I've always wanted to play on the otherside though and be evil but I've come to realize that evil gods dont really reward you as well as the good gods do.
TheEmperor 05-21-04, 05:20 AM	Maybe that's why clerics are so overpowered in 3ed and 3.5--they Pope plays one and wants to be 1337! As you read this, you have to imagine it in the form of a Jack Chick comic strip... Bishops: Behold, this evil game known as Dungeons and Dragons. Pope: Evil, how so? Bishops proceed to play a little bit of the Sunless Citadel. Pope: Perhaps this evil is subtle and needs to be examined closer with precise eyes. Did anyone bring any blank character sheets? Bishop #1: Yes your holiness. Bishop #2: I'm the paladin. Pope: No. I'm the pope. I get to be the paladin. Bishop #3:Fine, then I'm going cleric towards the Exalted Bishop Prestige class. Game proceeeds for the next five years as an epic level campaign. The pope advances to paladin10/cleric 10 and 20 levels in the pope prestige class (a feature of this prestige class is the smite protestant ability). The pope is tempted, but does not take the vow of poverty feat. An angel then appears... Angel: And this is why the pope trembles and is frail. It is because he is overwrought with D&D addiction. D&D addicts, you can still be saved. Follows with the Jack Chick prayer and tract order form.
crazysamaritan 05-21-04, 08:15 AM	That just went in my sig. :ayyyy!:
Big Dawg 05-21-04, 11:14 AM	Nope, No christians here, Just us LE clerics! "My spells can't be broken You all have been chosen You're dying for me Demoralized servant to my every need The choice has been made, you all will be slaves to my Unreasonable power I mock at the suffering and grow strong by the hour"
Darth K'Trava 05-21-04, 11:43 AM	Originally posted by Teh Lurv heh, that is definately a post-D&D group activity I haven't heard of before. Usually gaming groups I am associated with follow up with cheap food or breakfast at Bickfords. Usually we just either chit-chat or split as it's too late to go anywhere than an 'out-of-the-way' McDonald's drive-thru. And I usually have to work the next morning. :( Or, if I'm off on Sunday (after a Saturday game), I go to church the next morning with a friend of mine (who also games with us-he's the player of our oftimes-maligned cleric but we still love the big lug (cleric) anyway! :D )
Darth K'Trava 05-21-04, 11:45 AM	Originally posted by Big Dawg Nope, No christians here, Just us LE clerics! "My spells can't be broken You all have been chosen You're dying for me Demoralized servant to my every need The choice has been made, you all will be slaves to my Unreasonable power I mock at the suffering and grow strong by the hour" All I have to say is one thing: :nonono:
Slippery Mind II 05-21-04, 01:41 PM	Hey, this is a cool thread. Thanks for the link, Crazy. Nice to see fellow believers around, sometimes I feel like I am all alone. *sigh*
Slippery Mind II 05-21-04, 01:51 PM	Originally posted by Yorlum Blipdoolpoolp[/B] Male, female... I don't know about worshiping anything that sounds like it ended up in the potty...
Slippery Mind II 05-21-04, 02:00 PM	Originally posted by Darth K'Trava An interesting question for all the posters here: What kind of characters do you play? Me, I play alot of clerics. One paladin, a ranger/cleric and a fighter. All worshippers of one god or another. I have a healer that is going for the Saint template. She is a follower of "the One True God," which is quite contraversial in the game... She quotes from the Bible too, which is cool because it works.
Slippery Mind II 05-21-04, 02:31 PM	Originally posted by ChildofLight Have I mentioned I'm Pentecostal? I don't know if I've seen any of those here either ;-) But it is truely awesome to hear all the tales that are told. Give me hope :-D hehe. Heh, I go to a pentacostl church... The sad thing is, around these parts, that's where you get the preaching against D&D...
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-21-04, 03:07 PM	Originally posted by Grayson Uh.. might have something to do with running around in Hell, and fighting Diablo (that's Spanish for "Devil" btw). The pentagrams and huge amounts of blood and gore probably don't help either ;) (Edit becuz spellign is hardd) And the requisite scantily-clad women. And the succubi.
curtis72 05-21-04, 04:47 PM	I am Catholic and I play D&D. According to Jack Chick and other fundamentalists "not all Fundamentalists" Not only am I sinning for gaming but also I am not Christian because I am Catholic. WOW
egarvue 05-22-04, 03:01 AM	I am a conservative Lutheran. My dad's a Lutheran minister, and so's my father in law, both me and my wife and I attended a Lutheran university. So the church is a pretty big part of my life. I'm really the only regular churchgoing person in my group, mostly agnostics (although one guy's beliefs mirror the Catharist movement in the Middle ages...thus proving that there's really nothing new under the sun). And I'm the DM. Thanks for this thread, its nice to know that there are a lot of Christian D&D'ers out there. My players know that I'm a conservative Christian, and while I know that at leat one of them really hates Christianity, we're all adult enough to respect each other's beliefs/non-beliefs. My parents, though I love them, never understood the D&D/fantasy thing, and I was forbidden to play it. Of course, it was the first thing I did when I moved out at 18 was find and join a D&D group :D Been playing ever since. A real turning point was just in the last three years with the LOTR movies. I finally got my mom and dad to go see the films, to show them what I was so interested about when I was a kid. They got hooked, and ended up loving the movies so much that they went out and bought the books. My dad called me a month ago to say that he had finished reading the Trilogy (!!! my dad is really not a fiction reader) , and that he finally understood why I liked fantasy so much back. Its an amazing feeling, finally getting some acceptance from my father after all these years (I'm 35 years old now) for the one thing that I lived for as a kid. Oh, and Jack Chick can BITE ME! I hope that no one confuses the crap that guy pushes with real Christianity.
Bowlich 05-22-04, 03:13 AM	I'm a methodist. The group I play with consits almost entirely of very devout christians: two Unitied Church of Christ members, one Roman Catholic, the son of the pastor of the local Lutheran church (there used to be another Lutheran in the group but he moved). Thinking back on my past campaigns I think I can count only three players (two agnostics, one aethist) who were non-christians.
Lord_Soto 05-22-04, 12:35 PM	I am Southern Baptist, a particularly surly lot, and if most of you met me off of this board, you would probably label me "Fundie". My mother was particularly against D&D, but that sorta fell onto the back burner after my brothers all had far worse personal hobbies. The list of people at my church that know I am a gamer is very short, and I like to keep it that way. Not because I am ashamed of my hobby, but that most of them would not understand and I would hate for my wife and child to be prejudiced against because of it. The part of North Carolina that I am from, a person like me is more likely to be harassed and judged because I am a Christian than because I play D&D. As for my games, most of my characters are Thieves ( I play 2nd edition), Illusionists, or Clerics of the varous Realmsian deities. Most of my players (at least the better players) are some brand of Christianity, and I find that they are more likely to build a cohesive group and play heroic characters. I do not include aspects of my religion in my game, as I consider that on the lines of heresy. Kudos to this thread for remaining mostly tolerant.
Joni-san 05-22-04, 01:09 PM	"Maybe that's why clerics are so overpowered in 3ed and 3.5--they Pope plays one and wants to be 1337!" - Hengwrt Ellesmere Ok, this has to be one of the funniest things I've seen. Somebody should put this in his/her sig I guess it's time for the official D&D Jesus joke now :D Jesus saves! . . . . . . The rest of you take full damage. *err... please don't stone me :P * It's also interesting to note that this thread has remained civil. So far there hasn't been a need to remind people of the "no true scottsman" falacy (*ahem**points a few posts uppward*). I guess that's a good sign. *Reminds self that oneself should be carefull not to cause the "pot calling the ketle black" falacy* And while we are talking about religious authority figures and D&D we once had a Priest (err... Clergyman? Some type of Preacher?) called Bob Beeman visit our school (Note that I'm from Finland. That is allowed here). When I asked him about his opinion on D&D he basicaly said that it depends on what/how you play. (Allthough not all church visits are as pleasant. The local Babtists once made a "play" with a "atheist". I usualy don't remember falacies IRL but this one was a textbook case of "strawman". I had to fight the urge to stand up and shout out that they totaly misrepresented us. It was that bad, even the acting was terrible) *spends a few minutes contemplating if one should post this, decides to do so under heavy suspicion of getting yelled at later*
Razz 05-22-04, 10:12 PM	I haven't read all the posts on this thread but here's my reply to the topic starter. I'm a Christian and I play D&D. I began playing it back in 8th grade. Sure, my parents raised me into believing it was "Satan's game", but I ended up finding out that was all pure ignorance on their behalf. I don't see anything wrong with the game. Sure, some things can be considered occult-like and there are gamers who take the game way too far and ruin it for the rest of us, but I will not agree to it being "Satan's game". I see D&D as no different from actors in Hollywood, playing Grand Theft Auto and other gory, violent, or sexual video games, watching R-rated movies, or even the NRA (guns don't kill people, people kill people...but let's not start a flame war over that one :D ) And I have to make this statement: It isn't video games and television that's corrupting people. I have played that stuff since I was little and I turned out as a perfectly sane, law-abiding citizen of this kick ass country (down with the evil G.W.B though....again, please hold your flames :D ) So I don't blame that stuff on why kids end up turning out when they grow up, or even adults. If you end up screwed up because of video games, PC games, or television, or even D&D...you were mentally screwed up to begin with. Though one thing I hate about some people on these boards are all the bashing and hateful posts about Jack Chick. As a Christian I do agree with many of the things he says. It's rather pitiful to see threads involving how bad Jack Chick's material is. Please, people, keep Jack Chick hate posts to your own "I Hate Jack Chick" Message Boards. :cool:
Nithendil 05-22-04, 10:25 PM	Though one thing I hate about some people on these boards are all the bashing and hateful posts about Jack Chick. As a Christian I do agree with many of the things he says. It's rather pitiful to see threads involving how bad Jack Chick's material is. Please, people, keep Jack Chick hate posts to your own "I Hate Jack Chick" Message Boards. I'll post what and where I please thank you very much. I'm sorry, but bigots who spread propaganda and hate deserve what they get. Have you seen him preach in person? He is no better than a nazi. And to keep this post on topic, liberal-roman-catholic-christian-buddhist-D&Der here.
Slippery Mind II 05-22-04, 10:35 PM	Originally posted by Razz Though one thing I hate about some people on these boards are all the bashing and hateful posts about Jack Chick. As a Christian I do agree with many of the things he says. It's rather pitiful to see threads involving how bad Jack Chick's material is. Yeah, I hate people who hate too... (sound kinda hypocritical? I kinda thought so too, which is why I don't hate anyone.) But, you didn't actually say you hate anyone, you just said you hate SOMEthing about them, right? Anyway, I think what people find offensive about Chick is the fact that he is very zealous about some things he has no idea about (i.e. D&D.) I do hope that this issue drops dead right here, as I would hate to see the thread die... As a Christian, I too can support the idea of evangelism, so long as it is done in love and with respect to the individual, rather than trying to ram it down someone's throat (which seems to be Chick's approach.) I've never seen anyone that likes to be told they are wrong and in such an "in your face" kind of way. I suppose some people do respond to that, though... Happy gaming to all.
Forsaken_Rocker 05-23-04, 12:40 AM	i got into d&d by my christian friends atheist brother, and since then i've become an athiest myself (i was RC before) but I don't think D&D had nething to do with it.
Phist 05-23-04, 12:51 AM	Used to be Catholic, now a total aithiest. Although I'm considering buddism. (I lead an interesting life)
Zolgar 05-23-04, 04:42 AM	Personaly.. Religiously I'm screwed up.. By beliefe, I am called a Christian. From my parents, I am called a Jew. From my practices, I am called nothing. So I consider myself a messianic jew, due to how I see things. (I believe Jesus is/was the son of God, I believe the NT to be as real as the OT, I come closer to following Jewish practicies than any other religion I know of.. And I don't fit in anywhere.) that said, obviously I play D&D, and I will play anything. I am a roleplayer and an actor. I have a strong seperation between me and my character. this is how I can get on Horizons, log in as my Sslik, and absolutely hate other races and in general be a chaotic *explative*.. And at the same time carry on a pleasant OOC conversation with someone whom Ikarasa (my Sslik) hates. I have played chaotic evil characters, and I have never really played a paladin, or anyone lawful good. (I'll change that one of these days). Am I a dark and evil person because I will play a demon (I'll be quite frank, one of these days I am going to play an Incubus.)? That I suppose is a metter of opinion.. Which people are entiled to theirs. But I've never even had the slightest thought of devil worship, I've never thought of summoning deamons.. I've never truely tried to use magic. (there's been plenty of times I've wished it were real in the D&D extent, but who hasn't?) Years back, my parents were very phobic of such things. And I led a very sheltered childhood. But it was so funny, so many things my parents swore vehemently against have become common place. When games like Doom were new.. my parents swore up and down that they'd never been in out house.. Well, my mom beat Doom, and there've been a dozen other FPS. they swore against D&D, and guess who actually owns "my" Monster Manual, DMG and PHB? My dad. Now I'll shut up because I'm rambling.
lordsathien 05-23-04, 06:10 AM	Former Wiccan now Southern Baptist here (I was saved on St. Patrick's Day 2002, I swear that's got to be a t-shirt if I ever thought of one.), been playing D&D since 97. Most of the characters I play are either rogues or druids, interesting mix eh?
ChildofLight 05-23-04, 06:21 PM	Originally posted by Slippery Mind II Heh, I go to a pentacostl church... The sad thing is, around these parts, that's where you get the preaching against D&D... Dood, I'm pentecostal myself. Don't sweat it. As the guy that ate the bean burrito said "This too shall pass." BTW I started the thread. Imagine my surprise when I got so many responses!
ChildofLight 05-23-04, 06:30 PM	Originally posted by lordsathien Former Wiccan now Southern Baptist here (I was saved on St. Patrick's Day 2002, I swear that's got to be a t-shirt if I ever thought of one.), been playing D&D since 97. Most of the characters I play are either rogues or druids, interesting mix eh? Way cool, I love to hear stories like yours. BTW I went to a Southern Baptist Student Union in college. I always found it ironic that what we mainly did was play cards and play pool... And I found role playing stuff around there, so I know some people in the past at that place role played. (Although that was during a period where I didn't role play much...)
Darth K'Trava 05-23-04, 08:05 PM	Originally posted by Razz Though one thing I hate about some people on these boards are all the bashing and hateful posts about Jack Chick. As a Christian I do agree with many of the things he says. It's rather pitiful to see threads involving how bad Jack Chick's material is. Please, people, keep Jack Chick hate posts to your own "I Hate Jack Chick" Message Boards. :cool: It's stuff like this is why jack chick is forbidden on these boards. His stuff starts flame wars. I wouldn't know as I don't read it. So no more mention of this person or the mods are gonna close this thread due to it. It's a good thread. Hate to see it ruined by using forbidden topics. ;)
Darth K'Trava 05-23-04, 08:10 PM	Originally posted by lordsathien Former Wiccan now Southern Baptist here (I was saved on St. Patrick's Day 2002, I swear that's got to be a t-shirt if I ever thought of one.), been playing D&D since 97. Most of the characters I play are either rogues or druids, interesting mix eh? Saved by the 'wearin' of the green'? :P Cool, man! :D Been playing since 1999. Play mostly clerics, one paladin, one ranger who became a cleric and a fighter. No desire to play evil characters.
von Szass 05-23-04, 08:22 PM	One of my fellow players became christian (altough not church-based), partly due to the game. Since morality is one of the main issues in D&D. I don't know what I am. I am spiritual in a way, but I dislike the religions with the Jewish god (Jewish, Christianity & Islam). I'm more interested in older (European) pantheons. I attended both a catholic and a christian school and I've read (parts of) the bible. I like some of the destruction theories in it (Isn't that 'revelations'?). But I love reading (religious) stories, since most of the monsters we encounter while playing, are taken from various religious sources. (Wether old or new.) The times as a kid I attended church (my mother was a speaker, I'm not listed in a church or got the entrance ceremonies for any) I went for the stories from the bible, the songs and preaches didn't bother me. And sorry Razz, but I loathe Jack Chick as well, I was highly offended after seeing one of his propaganda-comics. Thank the god(esse)s (pick the one you believe in), he's already 6 feet under, so he can't produce more of that crap. And maybe off-topic: http://www.pantheon.org <- good site on various cultures, gods & monsters, christianity isn't listed, but historicly seen it decends from judaism, so take a peek in the asian section :)
Razz 05-23-04, 08:50 PM	Originally posted by Nithendil I'll post what and where I please thank you very much. I'm sorry, but bigots who spread propaganda and hate deserve what they get. Have you seen him preach in person? He is no better than a nazi. And to keep this post on topic, liberal-roman-catholic-christian-buddhist-D&Der here. Last I checked, this is a D&D Message Board, Jack Chick isn't D&D. :rolleyes: I just don't like how a D&D message baord, something that the only topic should be D&D, has become a "I Hate Jack Chick" message board. IMHO, people should make their own message board about it if he bothers people that much.
Razz 05-23-04, 08:51 PM	Originally posted by von Szass And sorry Razz, but I loathe Jack Chick as well, I was highly offended after seeing one of his propaganda-comics. Thank the god(esse)s (pick the one you believe in), he's already 6 feet under, so he can't produce more of that crap. Off topic here, but out of curiosity, which comic was it?
von Szass 05-23-04, 09:00 PM	<off-topic> One incredibly short-sighted and full of prejudgements, some female DM gets one player to commit suicide, introduces the other to a Wiccan coven. And it ends with the wannabe-Wiccan being a christian and burning her D&D books. Like we're f-ing satanic cultists or so. Even the thought of that propaganda-crap enrages me. </off-topic> Edit: cancelling the e-mail notification.
Iron Chef Vastrox 05-23-04, 10:17 PM	Back in the fated winter of '98 when I was introduced to AD&D, my group consisted of myself, son of a minister; my best friend, a devout Lutheran; the two brothers who were the D&Ders of the neighborhood, and sons of Reverand David Butler (or Revvie B) for short. I was a CE Thief who coined the term 'R is for Ratkin' as he carved his initial into the corpses of dead foes. D&D is the people who play it. It's not real life, and it's not evil. The characters might be, but that says nothing about the players.
ChildofLight 05-23-04, 11:40 PM	Originally posted by von Szass <off-topic> One incredibly short-sighted and full of prejudgements, some female DM gets one player to commit suicide, introduces the other to a Wiccan coven. And it ends with the wannabe-Wiccan being a christian and burning her D&D books. Like we're f-ing satanic cultists or so. Even the thought of that propaganda-crap enrages me. </off-topic> [/i] Might this be the last anti jack post? No reason to get people arguing in here. I could say more, but if you want to discuss this, start another antichick thread. I'm sure there have been several on various places on the net....
Big Dawg 05-24-04, 11:19 AM	who the hell is Jack Chick? I play both good and evil PC's because D&D is fake. you know...Make-believe or not real
Frozen Diamond 05-24-04, 01:18 PM	Ï'm more of an agnostic, though most of my family are christians. I play good, I DM evil, since then the other players are still playing good or neutral, mostly fighting evil. Had a go on an "evil" campaign once, me as a DM, but it wasn't interesting for too long. Paladin is, along with Wizard (sometimes Sorcerer), my favorite class; I prefer being of the "good guys".
Averos 05-24-04, 11:10 PM	Im a confirmed Lutheran, my playgroup is pretty diverse consisting of a Mormon two Methodists and a catholic.
VonStrakovich 05-24-04, 11:55 PM	Having lived in NE TN for 25 years I had no idea there were so many catholics, wiccan, atheists, fill-in-the-blank-whatever-else-you-are:rolleyes: I'm hard-core-right-wing-bible-thumpin-redneck etc etc, you understand my stereotype by now i'm sure. My father is the pastor at our local non-denominational church. Which is a kung-fu school during the week led by an ex-special forces vietnam vet. (Also a hard core right wing......etc). Just checked, yup, two catholic churches and some jehovah's witness, 32 pages of baptists in our yellow pages:angel: Have been gaming for 12 years. wife is christian, seven others in the group, christian, one does not give a crap, and two who just don't understand how to butter toast (and usually play druids so they can have pretty wolfies:( . Once the wednesday night bible study was going to be on roleplaying games. Most of the gaming group showed up and using logic, the truth, and by taking 20 on every charisma check we could we proved our point and it is no longer an issue at our church:cool: BTW the first person I ever led to Christ was a jehovah's witness turned pagan. He wandered into the gaming store where I worked during the college years just to see what rpgs were. Now he is a christian and the song leader at church, and my best buddy. He plays psions or wizards, I play wizards, clerics, or ninjas:b: Most people in the gaming group play NG just because they have a hard time with anything else. Even when we played a drow game, half the party still acted good. We killed them all and took their gear:D
Red_Decker 05-25-04, 12:48 AM	I am a non-denominational christian raised catholic. Father's Southern Baptist, mothers the Catholic. Been playing D&D since ... I think I was 8. Wife is Pentacostal that acts more non-denominational. Best Friends include 1 luthren[sp?], 1 buddists, 1 wiccan all gamers. When I started dating my wife she had been raise to think D&D was bad, so I started her on Marvel SH, then went to White Wolf, and evetually after 3.0 came out got her to try D&D, she's now DMing our current campaign. The first I heard of D&D being evil was in youth group my wife brought me to. Carmen's Witches Invitation if you know it was shown. It was basically a poem in verse about this "witch" using powers of evil to do these evil things. It menthioned D&D being right out in the open. I remember thinking "So what, I play D&D" Then at the end it was like "If he could do all that stuff why did he even bother with playing D&D?" Then once in Sunday School there I questioned it, and the question was blown off. Long story short my wife has been able to convince my In Laws that D&D isn't as bad as it was made out to be. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
crazysamaritan 05-25-04, 01:46 AM	Originally posted by Big Dawg who the :censored: is Jack Chick? He's a protestant (sorry about that) who is very.... "strong" in his faith. He is Anti-DnD, and included in my Sig. I happen to consider Dark Dungeons hilarious, but can respect that others may not feel the same way. My opinion of his comic strips vary between plain stupid, hilarious, and amusingly ignorant. After all, if what he says is true about DnD, a demon would have taken him bodily to the abyss, with the support of many other summoned fiendish monsters. Sigh, too bad he only made one DD. edit: I forgot, I posted a similar topic on a catholic message board, 12:5 in favor of DnD.
GrandBonum 05-25-04, 06:35 AM	As a DM, I try to seperate true life and role playing. I think itīs kind of funny when my younger brother says he doesnīt want to play a cleric (in FR) because he does not want to be some gods pawn. Personally, I donīt think that there is a god. Organized faiths are primarily a way for some people to influence and manipulate the behavior of other people. However, I love to play clerics nonetheless. Isnīt it the most interesting part of a RPG to play someone totally unlike your true self? People who see DnD as being "evil" most likely are afraid of the creativity and freedom of expression the game grants its players. There will always be those who try to restrict or ban things they dislike, be it games, music or even thoughts.
WizO_Sith 05-25-04, 09:24 PM	OK, I try not to mod boards to which I'm not assigned, but in this case I hope Hutt, Catoblpas, et. al. will forgive my butting in... *Ahem* Discussion of Jack Chick is forbidden on these boards. No exceptions, ever. Cease and desist or this thread will end up getting itself locked. [Edit] :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush:
Sypons 05-26-04, 03:40 AM	I'd have to say, as a christian, that DnD is an entirely seperate thing from real life. When someone gets all preachy on me I generally ignore them. I can live with me, God can live with me. So why should I worry what someone who has never even opened one of the books thinks. Their porblem, not mine. Although I have to admit that this attitude has gotten me in to trouble on several occasions as I go to a Christian school and many teachers are anti-DnD. So mainly my friends and I avoid the topic at school. What they don't know can't hurt them. Does it worry anyone else that here of all places, we are as unlikely to rcieve a post damning the game as Saddam has of getting off.
{SG}Veldrin 05-26-04, 11:59 AM	WHAT?!?!? Dont you guys know that playing D&D is a offensive act of crime against GOD? No seriously not an attempt to flame any religions, but I had a friend who brougth his uncle with him playing D&D. His uncle is a Protestantic Priest and he played until someone found out that D&D is a foul and hideous thing to be doing, worshipping of satan and God knows what. His uncle doesnt play anymore, he also denies he ever has :rolleyes:
Aimian Silverflash 05-26-04, 02:39 PM	I remember when I was a kid, about 13 or so, I had a really close friend that I hung out with, and my older brother taught us how to play AD&D. We had a great time with it. Yet, later on, his parents found out that we were playing it, and he wasn't allowed to be friends with me anymore... I remember the last time I went to his house, and his Mom telling me at the door that I wasn't allowed over there anymore, and asking me if my parents knew I played that "evil game." I always felt that was one of the most ignorant things I've ever experienced. I don't hold any grudge against religous types. Heck, I am married to a devote Catholic. But sometimes I'd like to hold up a mirror to some of them, and say "Look!" lol. -Born and raised Southern Babtist here, by the way, but I consider myself agnostic more than anything. (Religion makes me sick, lol)
Daybreaker 05-26-04, 04:15 PM	I'm sort of a Gnostic Christian. Which makes D&D really funny, when you think about it from a Gnostic point of view. D&D is a perfect metaphor for the idea that the world is just a fictional construct, a make-believe place that we're all trapped in. One way that my religious beliefs affect the game is that I don't like alignment. I don't like the dualism, even as multi-layered as it is. I don't like the idea that one species or culture is more inherently evil than another. It does get to the point where I start to feel like D&D quietly endorses some very racist beliefs, and that always drives me nuts. But that's kind of another topic. Not totally another topic. But pretty close. :)
Despiser 05-26-04, 05:46 PM	I didn't spot another one in the previous posts although I may have missed him/her. I am a Muslim. I converted from Roman Catholicism 7 years ago and have played D&D for more than 20 years. I don't get any strange looks from other Muslims because D&D is not common amongst my faith and not a lot is known about the game. But no one has said that I am evil because of it. If anything I have encountered a nice tolerance for it.
Lady_Firehawk 05-30-04, 05:39 AM	Originally posted by ChildofLight BTW Pres = pres b tyrian? Soooo... if George Bush were to play Forgotten Realms, he's worship Tyr? :D
Slippery Mind II 05-30-04, 02:30 PM	Originally posted by ChildofLight BTW Pres = pres b tyrian? Originally posted by Lady_Firehawk Soooo... if George Bush were to play Forgotten Realms, he's worship Tyr? :D Now that is funny.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Alkai 05-30-04, 08:28 PM	I am a Seventh-Day Adventist, so I am probably out on the fringe as far as being a Christian goes. I have been playing D&D since 2e first came out. I love all the incarnations of the game so far. I was raised Roman Catholic, swithched to Pentacostal when I was 25, then to Assemblies of God when I was 35, and have been a Seventh-Day Adventist since I was 36. I am 44 now. I love the game and do not see anything wrong with it. I have a roommate that is also the DM who is also a Christian and former Southern Baptist who is npw inclined toward the beliefs of the Seventh-Day Adventists. He has a current campaign going which involves the closing of a fixed gate to Baator and our adventuring party is trying to locate the only object that can close the gate forever. It is going well and is a great deal of fun! I also have a Christian friend who played the game for about 12 years, or so he says, and who is now convinced that the game is evil. He has given me specific reasons for why he feels this way, but I have concluded that they are merely his own experiences and that they are not universal in application. I have told him that he is free to not play it, but not to judge me or others who don't feel the same way that he does. We don't discuus the game anymore. Other than that, that is my brief experience with the game and RPGs in general.
magic wyrm 05-30-04, 09:31 PM	im a roman catholic.....although not necessarily a "good" catholic :rolleyes: and ive had a few spets wiht people about it, like my youth minister, which is why i stopped attending, but thats another story for another day, thankfully, my parents are fine with it because my dad's brother plays so my dad grew up with it, and i dont have any problems with the polytheism whatsoever
Lopez 05-30-04, 10:34 PM	im catholic and when ever i tell one of my friends they actually wanna know all about the game i find the game as usin my imagination in a fun more excitin way cause i right now am writin a book so i find this game helps me in that
DemigodOverlord 06-03-04, 08:33 PM	no offense, but i dont understand how being christian would interfere with role-playing, i mean, as long as you dont play like some of the people i know, such as actually bringing spellbooks and junk, i dont think it would make a difference. by the way, i am a major christian, im about as godly as they come, and i've been RPGing for about 5-6 years now, and none of my christian friends or my parents have said anything negative about it, so i dont think it makes a difference. No offense or anything, i mean, i can see where you're coming from, with all of the spells and magic and everything, but my answer to you is, as long as you dont get too involved, its quite allright.
DemigodOverlord 06-03-04, 08:33 PM	no offense, but i dont understand how being christian would interfere with role-playing, i mean, as long as you dont play like some of the people i know, such as actually bringing spellbooks and junk, i dont think it would make a difference. by the way, i am a major christian, im about as godly as they come, and i've been RPGing for about 5-6 years now, and none of my christian friends or my parents have said anything negative about it, so i dont think it makes a difference. No offense or anything, i mean, i can see where you're coming from, with all of the spells and magic and everything, but my answer to you is, as long as you dont get too involved, its quite allright.
Xod, Archmage 06-04-04, 02:09 AM	*stands up* Church of Christ. I never gave much creedence to the ones who go for the whole "satanic blah blah blah" because, hey, it is, has been, and always will be a game. Funny enough, I like Clerics. We all work for the same boss, we're just in different cubicles. *sits down* Xod:behold:
BlaineTog 06-04-04, 02:48 AM	WizO_Sith, We can't talk about <He Who Must Not Be Named>? Darn! There goes my whole post! ;) Anyways... Practicing Roman Catholic. Church every Sunday. I've gone to Catholic schools all my life. I play DnD pretty much exclusivelly during lunch at my Jesuit High School. I have never heard a bad word spoken about DnD, ever (although my mom *still* won't let me play Diablo for some reason... not that I have the free time anyway...).
ARSOFKAS 06-04-04, 08:41 PM	Stepdad was a S. Baptist Preacher. Mom and Stepdad still go to church every Sunday, Tuesday and Wedsday. I've beeen playing for 22 years and my mom was kinda worried til she met my stepdad and he thought it was great that I was gaming instead of smoking or drinking...Southern Baptist
ARSOFKAS 06-04-04, 08:44 PM	Oh ya... I've been called a geek and freak as well as nerd. Most people stop calling you things like that once you explain you're Army Special Forces. Then they just go "cool..." and change the subject.
Shemeska the Marauder 06-04-04, 08:46 PM	Practicing Christian of nominally Protestant denomination, though I was originally raised Russian Orthodox. In my group I DM for, I've got an active Catholic, a lapsed Catholic, an Agnostic, one guy I don't know about, and one girl who's currently trying to figure out just what she believes. I also know a few other Christian gamers, an athiest gamer, and a wiccan gamer (and when I say wiccan I mean Gardnerian wicca. As in she knows the actual history behind the religion. She's not of the 'this is cool and I self initiated after watching 'The Craft'' type of wiccan. So while I don't agree with the theology I can at least appreciate the fact that she went out of her way to understand the basis behind it)
ARSOFKAS 06-04-04, 09:01 PM	I played a cavalier/paladin (1st Edition) who was Roman Catholic. Very entertaining crusader type. All clerics and mages were heathens and heretics. Attack on sight, that sort of thing. Just adding some Christianity to the game.
Slippery Mind II 06-04-04, 10:23 PM	Originally posted by ARSOFKAS I played a cavalier/paladin (1st Edition) who was Roman Catholic. Very entertaining crusader type. All clerics and mages were heathens and heretics. Attack on sight, that sort of thing. Just adding some Christianity to the game. Or at least Roman Catholicism. Unfortunately, it was this sort of practice that gave Christianity a bad name. The belief system is actually quite different if one actually practices what they preach. But your idea is quite interesting, wouldn't mind playing something like that myself.
darcAssassin 06-05-04, 04:16 AM	I'm totally shocked so many fellow christians play DnD, felt alone hehe. I'm a 13 year old Christian, of the Baptist denomination.(but I'll visit other churchs if I'm invited =)). I've only gotten one negative remark from my dad, he said," ooh....I've heard bad stuff about that DnD".... I hate to say it but he's quite uneducated about DnD, and believes what some rumors say. Other than that, it's been pretty good, and I'm suprised at how many friends want to play with me.
Another Gnome 06-05-04, 06:42 AM	I'm still Lutheran like I've been in the last half a dozen threads about this matter... :) I'm actually surprised to see how many people are surprised to see so many Christians playing D&D. Now, I'm only guessing here, but from a statistical point of view when most gamers live in relatively "Western" countries and most people in these countries are Christians to some degree, it's a practical necessity to have a very large number of Christian gamers around.
LordOfTheFries 06-05-04, 05:04 PM	I don't think playing this game in and of itself is inherently evil, but if you want to be an absolutist about it then yes, the subject of this game is evil and just about every other thing we do. Do I think it promotes satan worship or suicide, NO! We are just as likely to be damned for stealing a pack of gum as we are for playing D&D. Christians are supposed to like things of God, and this game is not of God so technically you are in trouble, but then in the same breath, watching 99% of all movies and tv puts you in the same boat. Even the smallest infraction like speeding or swearing will get you to hell because no sin can ever enter into heaven. I'm just saying basically, don't put any more emphasis on this game being "bad" for you than anything else in the world because this is mild compared to most of it.
Drindin 06-05-04, 05:10 PM	Originally posted by Miles Vorkosigan I'm Lutheran, so I guess I count.(Though my Roman Catholic grandparents would probably diagree on that) My friend got me into playing, he was really into fantasy and that stuff. Myself, I prefer science fiction, so I'm playing this game until they come out with a good sci-fi RPG. I dont really tell many people, simply because the subject never really comes up, but I had a friend who lost a group because their parents told them it was eeeevvviiiiiiillllllll.;) -MVK Here here! I too am a lutheran gamer. I've been exposed to the RPG world since I was a young child, and learned from my dad, who is also a gamer (2nd Edition Player). He went through seminary, and could have become a pastor if he wanted. Simply put, the game isn't evil because, well, it's no more evil than Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter! It teaches the classic Good vrs. Evil, Heroisim over Villany, and more technical Reading, writing, and Math skills. The game emphasizes team work, strategy, and problem solving if it is played correctly. It helps to develope attention of details, and investigation. What is evil about this game? A DM who lets you play evil characters, and do evil things without pentalties. That's just downright twisted.
MarkJoe33 06-06-04, 12:00 AM	Double Post Double Post Sorry Sorry Oh hold on. It was a double post but I just remembered something else (just remember the next post was posted first). When I was a very young player I was still a devout Catholic, and the other group members I was playing with were two or more years older than me, I think. I had no problem being Christian and playing DnD, although the hack and slay amorality bothered me (still does, but it seems to be less of a problem in games I've played recently with more mature players). Then one session the dungeon came to an end early, and one of the group suggested getting out a ouija board. I made it very clear that if they did I would leave the house - which I did and the DM spent half an hour in his front garden trying to persuade me to come back in the house and (I'm a bit embarassed about this now) I remember berating him for the hipocrisy of wearing a crucifix. I feel quite embarassed about this story now, and I'm not sure how much it is to do with my religious beliefs, because now when I'm not religious, I still wouldn't go near a ouija board. The crucifix comment makes me wince to remember but what can I say I had very strong beliefs back then.
MarkJoe33 06-06-04, 12:01 AM	Originally posted by crazysamaritan He is Anti-DnD, and included in my Sig. I happen to consider Dark Dungeons hilarious, but can respect that others may not feel the same way. My opinion of his comic strips vary between plain stupid, hilarious, and amusingly ignorant. After all, if what he says is true about DnD, a demon would have taken him bodily to the abyss, with the support of many other summoned fiendish monsters. Sigh, too bad he only made one DD. I followed that Jack Chick link, and then I had to search around for a thread on which it was (vaguely) relevant to discuss it. It's hilarious, but a bit scary at the same time. As a lapsed roman catholic I have a fairly large repertoire of Catholic jokes, but at the same time take umbrage when people make prejudicial and ignorant remarks about Catholicism - I suppose my unconcious attitude is I'll say what I like about my background, but I want to draw the line just as I'd expect you to draw the line about your own... Does anyone identify with this attitude? Anyway, having had a chuckle at Chick's comments about D&D I went on to be deeply offended by his comments about Catholicism. The guys a serious bigot (while most contributers here, I'm sure, would recognise Catholicism as a form of Christianity Chick regards it as a branch of paganism, which is in itself a front for satanism - you can imagine how the other major world religions fare). His extreme views teetered between amusing in their outlandishness and downright frightening. A really interesting read - I'm glad you put me on to it - and the anti-DnD comic strip was nicely reminiscent of those Reefer Madness strips. Interesting that one reference to Hitler in the PHB description of Charisma led to him concluding that DnD extolls the virtues of fascism, and then on the same site he encourages the burnings of books, records and other forms of art... fascinating.
Slippery Mind II 06-06-04, 01:49 AM	Psst, MarkJoe33, not Chick posts here or the Wizo's will shut it down. Pass it on. ::slinks away::
EvilDuck 06-06-04, 04:36 AM	My grandma's a devout Christian and she's cool with it. I've lost the faith that I prolly never had, but I see nothing anti-Christian about playing D&D.
Sypons 06-06-04, 05:21 AM	My parents gave me my first dnd book and they are fine withit as long as I don't start attending satan worship
SuicideBySafetyPin 06-06-04, 05:53 AM	I pretty much play my D&D on the quiet, and with friends. Most of the church people I know are pretty much conviced it's evil. Most of them actually have good reasons, but I don't find them valid in a strictly moral sense. Like drinking Alcohol, some people just can't resist it and pretty much drink themselves under table if they have the chance. Whereas most people are just fine with a few beers in good company. Nothing morally wrong with drinking, or D&D, but it is morally wrong to be a slave to something. There are a few that understand this, but the community at large doesn't, so I keep a low profile ^_^
Red_Decker 06-06-04, 09:45 AM	While reading the thread before it dawned on me I didn't know how my parents felt about it so I asked them. They said that as long as it didn't interfer with my life they were okay with it. So I think it only becomes bad or evil when it starts to control your life. Such as, you don't go to church because you were up all night gaming. You haven't seen your wife/husband/signifigant other for a week and have a choice of going to dinner with your wife/other or gaming and you choose gaming. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Slippery Mind II 06-06-04, 10:58 AM	Originally posted by Red_Decker You haven't seen your wife/husband/signifigant other for a week and have a choice of going to dinner with your wife/other or gaming and you choose gaming. Well, it depends on if she's mad at me or not. Of course, if I choose gaming, it won't improve her mood. :angel:
Drindin 06-06-04, 01:55 PM	Here's how I figure it: Once your life revolves around the game, it becomes Idolatry, which is a very very bad thing if you're Christian. And that doesn't just go for DND, it goes for pretty much anything. So, as has been said before, DND is about as dangerous as reading lord of the rings, Harry Potter (which, I might add, is now widely accepted by Churches around the world. Harry Potter book-burnings have entirely ceased), or any other fantasy book (except for maybe the Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe... well, and Lord of the Rings for that matter, but only when you look beneath the surface of the literature, to the underlying Christian teachings). So, RD, I agree with you quite a bit on your statement. But, as I said, I don't just apply that to gaming. I apply it to every aspect of my life.
Bewildered 06-06-04, 03:40 PM	yeh. Im Baptist and i started playing with my mormon friend so everyone thought he was trying to convert me into some kinda of cult. IT WAS GREAT!
SuicideBySafetyPin 06-07-04, 05:56 AM	Originally posted by Bewildered yeh. Im Baptist and i started playing with my mormon friend so everyone thought he was trying to convert me into some kinda of cult. IT WAS GREAT! LoL! A Mormon playing a Satanic game with a Baptist as a converstion tool . . . . . . ? :eek: Yeah, nothing wrong with that :smirk:
MarkJoe33 06-07-04, 12:36 PM	Originally posted by Daybreaker I'm sort of a Gnostic Christian. Which makes D&D really funny, when you think about it from a Gnostic point of view. D&D is a perfect metaphor for the idea that the world is just a fictional construct, a make-believe place that we're all trapped in. :heehee It would be particularly cool to have a gnostic character who is aware of his own fictionality. Is the DM a demi-urge, in this case? Originally posted by Daybreaker One way that my religious beliefs affect the game is that I don't like alignment. I don't like the dualism, even as multi-layered as it is. I don't like the idea that one species or culture is more inherently evil than another. It does get to the point where I start to feel like D&D quietly endorses some very racist beliefs, and that always drives me nuts. But that's kind of another topic. Not totally another topic. But pretty close. :) I feel much the same thing. There was another thread on the relativeness of evil, in which the probalems of alignment were much discussed. It was quite heated as I recall.
TigerWolfe 06-08-04, 03:27 AM	i am a baptist and i play although where i used to live in georgia there were alot of hardcore southern baptists (the anti dancing and anti other kinda weird stuff like christian rock Baptists) who i caught flak from but i found a box for adnd in our game closet when i was like 7 and was instantly hooked parents told me they would teach me to play when i was 11 (the age on the box) but by then i had read all of the books we had at the time like ten times over (i still just read them for fun) and was correcting them on rules mistakes they made:angel:
ArtemisG 06-08-04, 03:29 AM	Conservative Baptist here, I have been playing Roleplaying games since I was 23, so that would be 23 yrs now. I take some flack at times but not too bad.
Endarire 06-12-04, 03:07 AM	I'm a Christian who's trying to 'convert' other Christians to D&D; however, one of my friends is stuck on these issues: 1: Sorcerers shall burn in the lake of fire. (Revelations) 2: Morals are absolute. (Don't know the source) 3: Non-innate spellcasting is wrong in reality, and, since morals are absolute, this translates into fantasy. (He uses the argument that murder is always wrong.) My questions to him are: 1: If you define a witch as one that casts spells of non-innate power, then would Moses be a witch? 2: How does in-game spellcasting cause direct out-of-game harm for the average person? 3: Why is D&D 'witchcraft' demonic? Background: We've discussed that D&D is like playing out Lord of the Rings or another fantasy novel, and have established that God doesn't exist in this hallucinatory world. I showed him the 3.5 SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35), and Astral Projection, multiple deities, and other especially Pagan things scare him. I lent him my 3e DMG to help him in his research, and have explained to him that magic is a tool, but what else should I talk to him of? -EE
LordOfTheFries 06-12-04, 12:42 PM	Moses didn't cast spells, God gave him the power and told him to do what he did. Moses had no power of his own, nor did he do anything of himself to gain the power to do what he did. All spellcasting IS wrong because God does not give us the power to do so. By the way, why is your friend 'scared' of all that stuff. A real, faithful christian should have no reason to fear any of that, because God is stronger than anything in this world. Sounds to me like he may not be so full of faith or knowledge for that matter. I bet heavy metal scares him too LOL!
lostcause 06-12-04, 05:05 PM	I am a Rationalist. Nobody could here it but my mind has been screaming for the pain to stop while reading this thread.
Darth K'Trava 06-15-04, 09:08 PM	Originally posted by SuicideBySafetyPin LoL! A Mormon playing a Satanic game with a Baptist as a converstion tool . . . . . . ? :eek: Yeah, nothing wrong with that :smirk: :bigeyes: :OMG! :nonono: (in that order)
MarkJoe33 06-15-04, 09:18 PM	Originally posted by lostcause I am a Rationalist. Nobody could here it but my mind has been screaming for the pain to stop while reading this thread. Masochist too then?
lostcause 06-17-04, 05:09 PM	Originally posted by MarkJoe33 Masochist too then? Yeah well, I am a philosophy major. I am accustomed to listening to followers of various theologies. I figured I had built up a pretty high tolerance and would be numb to it. I was wrong.
ajmastrean 06-18-04, 11:23 AM	Hey everyone, I am a Christian, involved in the children's ministry at my church and a regular attendee of Sunday services and youth group. I have been playing DnD for several years. I have noticed a few things that I would like to talk about. I do have other Christian friends who play the game. They are as strong in their faith as anyone I know. AND they enjoy roleplaying. That is all there is to it. It is a game, there is no reason for anyone to be afraid of it. There seems to be more confrontation between RPG'ers (and gamers in general) and non-gamers than parents, religious leaders, etc. and gamers. It is a matter of imagination, intelligence, and good old fashion fun. Some people do not understand or possess any of that and use religion as a front for their ignorance. I hope that makes sense to someone out there. I kinda whipped this up while I should have been working.
ToxicToad 06-18-04, 01:29 PM	We've discussed that D&D is like playing out Lord of the Rings or another fantasy novel, and have established that God doesn't exist in this hallucinatory world. I showed him the 3.5 SRD, and Astral Projection, multiple deities, and other especially Pagan things scare him. I lent him my 3e DMG to help him in his research, and have explained to him that magic is a tool, but what else should I talk to him of? Don't. Let him believe what he wants. The word says we are to work out our own salvation with trembling. If he doesn't want to play leave him be.
Bulabase 06-18-04, 06:38 PM	Great thread. You all get cookies for being so well behaved. :) I have not had the pleasure of gaming with many Christians. A devout Roman Catholic (he would go to morning mass right when we ended our game sometimes) and an Episcopal. Most of the people with whom I have gamed have been agnostic or unchurched. Some of them have been actively hostile to organized religion (meaning Christianity). For my part, I am a Unitarian Universalist and have played D&D for over 20 years in the Bible Belt.
Drasche 06-19-04, 01:46 PM	Originally posted by Ronin Mantis I once took an on-line Faith assessment.... I think it was BELIEFNET.COM or something.... It told me my beliefs were aligned with Unitarian Universalism. I got curious, so I checked it out. It told me that I should be an orthodox Quaker. :confused: I only find this odd because I consider myself a non-denominational biblical literalist. Attending an Assemblies of God affiliated non-denominational church. After two years of a literalist and, depending on the way you look at it, liberal Bible college. And four years of of amoral degeneracy before that. And I'm Goth. I started playing Magic back in October of 1999 after spying the illustration. Long story short, I got heavily into the game. A few months ago my group got into D&D, with me DMing. Now there's something to oy vey about. I don't catch too much flak about it, thankfully, but not many people really even know I'm into it.
Darth K'Trava 06-20-04, 07:30 PM	Originally posted by ajmastrean I hope that makes sense to someone out there. I kinda whipped this up while I should have been working. OOOOOOOOO...... you're in trouble...... who's the sinner now? :P :P [post totally tongue-in-cheek]
Edd1e 06-21-04, 06:46 AM	I am an Orthodox Christian and I have never had trouble with roleplaying games and religion because I simply don't mention that I play such games to anyone who thinks that they are demon worshiping or whatever. It's my principle to never argue with people on a subject they are misinformed in. However, I do sometimes wonder how my teacher of religion subjects at school can find excuses to blame DnD for AIDS, drugs, alcohol and many other bad things in our society.
masterofmayhem 06-27-04, 03:05 AM	Well, I'm a Christian, but I don't attend church regularly anymore, so I don't even know what kind I am . . . I took that quiz on beliefnet.com, and it said I was a "Historicist." Anyway, on the topic of DnD being satanic, of course it is, aren't you all in satanic cults too? :devil: ;) I don't remember where I saw it, but in someone's sig there is an anti DnD/pro church comic showing people playing an RPG and trying to cast spells in real life and such. Eventually, good triumphs over evil and the main character renounces her dealings with her cult, and after a mere one or two suicides!
bahamut_0 06-27-04, 07:43 AM	I'm Christian and play. Well, let me rephrase that - I'm Christian on paper, more of a "don't really care or have time for religion" in real life. I just find it weird that this religion vs. D&D problem exists, it certainly doesn't here. Probably cause D&D doesn't have that big a name here, but still. Hmmm, I was about to voice a few more thoughts, but decided against it.
Qit el-Remel 06-29-04, 06:23 PM	I know a few. -Qit
Darthos 06-30-04, 12:08 PM	Greetings all. I was raised in the Assemblies of God, starting around age 8. I was very involved with the Royal Rangers, and had many long time friends. I was brought to a couple of those scary 'revivals', wherein D&D and rock music were explained as being purely satanic and, having no access to the material, had no way of seeing for myself and so believed it. Once I was 18, I joined the Army, where a friend first mentioned D&D to me. Of course, all of that teaching came in about how it was an evil, devil-worshipping/summoning 'game'. His response was "see for yourself". I did so, and found it be not at all like what I was "warned" about, and within 15 minutes was rolling up my first character. This was back in '93. Let me just say now that the Army is the LAST place that you want to go if you've had a repressed childhood. Strict military structure is not a place to find your individuality or to finally start making your own decisions about your life. When I got out of the Army, my parents put me up until I could get my own place, under the condition that I resume going to church. I went back into the Royal Rangers as a Lt Commander, and resumed my long friendships. Still interested in D&D, I was talking to my old friends about it, and seeing if anyone wanted to get a game together. My stepfather, however, was a control freak. He knew that I had things that he didn't want in the house, including my D&D books, so I kept them locked up in a trunk in the garage. He stole a set of my keys that had a key to the trunk, and went though my stuff. He then threatened me with bringing this trunk into the church and opening it in front of everyone. I tried to explain my experience with the game and how it was nothing like he had heard, but apparently both he and my mother would rather listen to some guy on a podium that knows nothing about it, than a son that has direct experience. The Senior Commander of the Royal Rangers, one of my best friends growing up, asked to review my books (2E). Reading those books didn't help him though, as he really had no context and I could not talk to him about it until he was done. So, long story short I was quickly asked to leave the Royal Rangers, and all of my long time friends rejected me because I played D&D. Many of the folks in church began treating me with everything from mistrust to hate. So much for the golden rule, eh? Needless to say I left the place. While in the military, I also had the opportunity to explore other faiths, and quickly found christianity to be.... not for me. Through no direct relationship with D&D, I found that Wicca was much more what felt right for me. Thus, here it is more than 10 years later, and I'm still Wiccan and I still play D&D with no regrets. My parents still have issues, such as paying half of my younger brother's tuition to an automotive school, but would not even co-sign for a loan for me to go to Computer school. The moral here is that, yes, there still are some very intollerant and closed-minded people out there that would rather mistreat family than risk any sort of challenge to their beliefs. Some people, it appears, are so weak in their faith that they cannot handle anyone that does not totally agree with them. I have been the victim of such people. I never saw anything wrong with D&D, and I'm glad to see a good number of christians that still have their heads screwed on straight. I'm also glad to see, for your sakes, that you all did not have to go through what I did. Thanks for reading my rant, and may the blessings of God (by whatever name you know Him/Her) be with you all.
Amaron Blackthorn 06-30-04, 12:26 PM	I am quite proudly Roman Catholic and I play D&D and have done so for at least 21 or so years.
Bocklin 07-15-04, 09:05 AM	I was raised a Roman Catholic, but now I practice Taqiya. I have been playing paper RPG for more than 13 years now. For the four years when I was in a jesuit boarding school, our group of gamers had more problems with the guys of the soccer team than with the priests at our school (who had no idea what RPG were)... ;) Bocklin
Thane Goldstone IV 07-15-04, 01:15 PM	This is closest to my experience, though I spent 30.5 years as agnostic/athiest before Jesus Saved me. Am now 33.167. I'm in the Christian and Missionary Alliance, and happy to be filled with the Holy Spirit! Here's some food for thought when dealing with people who have trouble with D&D: Not all hobbies are for all people. I like to use this test for other Christians who worry about D&D, even after I explain to them that the rules are nothing more than math for resolving situations (combat, skill rolls) that could go either way: "Imagine you're in your high school drama department. You're an actor there, and a play of Shakespeare's Hamlet is coming up. You are to play the villain, wherein you will act out the killing of Hamlet's father, and be *believably gleeful* about it to the audience. If you don't take the part, the drama teacher will kick you out of the department. As a Christian, can you perform the role so that the audience believes you, but you yourself do not sin?" Go farther: "If the play was the story of Genesis, wherein Cain kills Abel, could you play Cain and not sin?" Often people do plays with monologues from Biblical characters like Jacob (Israel) so reenacting Genesis shouldn't be a big deal to them, right? How about the movie "The Passion" wherein actors had to portray gleeful sadistic soldiers flogging Jesus unmercifully? Could a Christian actor do that? Some, but not all. The "not all" should neither take that part nor play D&D because they can't keep fantasy separate from reality. The important part here is that once you've explained that the D&D rules are math, the trappings are flavor text, that you could be playing Cowboys and Indians if it made any difference to them, then explaining the role-playing is easy. The actor who portrays Harry Potter recently commented that he didn't want to play Harry forever, because he had to get so deeply into his role that sometimes he forgot where he ended and Harry began. That actor probably shouldn't be acting, for his own mental health, lest he "stumble" as per the Bible, and definitely no one should offer RPGs to him. Be led by God, but don't cause your brother to stumble over the food sacrificed to pagan gods, as it were :-) To all those who believe they've found happiness elsewhere: Jesus wants you back, and asks that you do not blame Jesus for the choices of the people who gave in to their negative emotional response about D&D earlier in your life. Jesus still loves you, and always will. --- Originally posted by ajmastrean Hey everyone, I am a Christian, involved in the children's ministry at my church and a regular attendee of Sunday services and youth group. I have been playing DnD for several years. I have noticed a few things that I would like to talk about. I do have other Christian friends who play the game. They are as strong in their faith as anyone I know. AND they enjoy roleplaying. That is all there is to it. It is a game, there is no reason for anyone to be afraid of it. ...
Amaron Blackthorn 07-15-04, 01:20 PM	I dont think that there is anything wrong for Christians to play this game. After all, it is a fantasy game and we should be old and mature enough to discern reality from fiction.
Lu Baihu 07-15-04, 03:28 PM	Re: this subject - what would the opinions be if the game in question were d20 Modern? (since as far as I know, St. Cuthbert is the stereotypical "wrath of" God, Pelor = the loving God, and there's a Catholic Church in the d20 Modern books) That should be an interesting question ;) (playing as a character of one's own denomination in the game, just someone else)
Drasche 07-16-04, 12:50 AM	Originally posted by Lu Baihu Re: this subject - what would the opinions be if the game in question were d20 Modern? (since as far as I know, St. Cuthbert is the stereotypical "wrath of" God, Pelor = the loving God, and there's a Catholic Church in the d20 Modern books) That should be an interesting question ;) (playing as a character of one's own denomination in the game, just someone else) The problem comes when you start getting into Non-demoninationalism and those who refuse any particular "side" of that religion, but follow their own interpretation of holy writ, prophecies, visions, audible/inner voices of said god, etc. Those are the harder ones to interact with, presuming everyone else had strong ties to their denominations. But you do raise a good point, and I will think about it some.
Lu Baihu 07-16-04, 01:35 AM	If you've got people in your life who are skeptical of D&D's "goodness", try asking them about d20 Modern. :)
Archangel 07-16-04, 04:51 AM	I come from a Roman Catholic country but am an Atheist! I have been playing D&D for 7 years now and have had a few strange situations when I have been forced to explain to others the nature of the game. But mostly no problem. My friends are either Roman Catholics or Atheists and I have never heard of somebody being forced to stop playing because of faith!
Deodren, son of Deomir 07-16-04, 05:28 AM	I am a christian, and I've been playing RPG's since I was about 12 ( 15 years now ). I really see no clashes in the two. The grandfather of Fantasy ( Tolkien ) was christian... even to the point of converting his atheist friend to it. ( I forget his name... but it was the author of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe ) My interests heavily include Middle Earth, so its mostly what I play and have a desire to play... so I guess my games are missing what most people find evil about it. But would I have a problem playing a game that has demons or devils in it? No... I know what make-believe is. Its funny. A friend of mine was talking to someone of another religion.. and was explaining a game where you assume the role of a mythic god and lead your armies against followers of another god.. and the guy said "My god wouldn't agree with that." My friend ( a christian ) responded with "You're god doesn't know the difference between real life and a video game?" Haha :rofl: Classic.
dnddreamer 07-16-04, 10:10 AM	I am a non-practicing non-denominational Christian. Meaning that I once had religion in my life when I was younger. Going to church, working at a Bible Camp, belonging in a youth group. But like one member mentioned on this board earlier, "I don't live my life with religion in it anymore". You can say that I'm playing with fire...but currently I'm not worry. As for my gaming experience, I'm 34 and have been gaming since I was 12. During the whole time I was gaming as a youth, I was talked to by many of the Christians in my life about D&D. I'm not going to rehash what they said...you all know what it was about. I even was convienced to play that Bible Role-Playing game (I want to say Dragon Strike but I'm not sure of the name). My whole aspect of Christians, Cathelics, whatever religious name you give yourself and playing D&D is one simple question. Would God/Jesus sit down with you and game? I'm quick to say he would but eventually get up and leave, not judge me, but just leave due to some of the actions in the game that I do. I know right from wrong. But in my 20+ years of gaming I have never been in a "clean" group that God/Jesus would continue gaming with us. I'm not trying to be negative if it sounds like that but I'm more just adding my imput to the original poster of this thread.
MarkJoe33 07-16-04, 10:36 AM	Originally posted by Deodren, son of Deomir I am a christian, and I've been playing RPG's since I was about 12 ( 15 years now ). I really see no clashes in the two. The grandfather of Fantasy ( Tolkien ) was christian... even to the point of converting his atheist friend to it. ( I forget his name... but it was the author of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe ) My interests heavily include Middle Earth, so its mostly what I play and have a desire to play... so I guess my games are missing what most people find evil about it. But would I have a problem playing a game that has demons or devils in it? No... I know what make-believe is. The author you refer to is C S Lewis. Interestingly, Tolkein disapproved of the Narnia tales because the christian allegories were too obvious. Tolkein's characters though pagan, are rather like Shakespearian pagans, still responding to the world with Christian outlooks, ideas and ethics, but using pagan terms to describe them. Lord of the Rings returns constantly to the theme of temptation and the seductive power of evil that takes personal moral strength to resist, and in that sense it is very christian. Some christians however will object to any work which suggests that magic can be morally ambivalent and used to solve problems. This has been the reason behind certain states banning The Wizard of Oz in the past, and some churches calling for the banning of Harry Potter today. The same argument could be used to attack LOTR and indeed, even the hyper-christian Narnia tales. There's no reason why someones beliefs should cause them to object to a work of fantasy, but some people will use their beliefs to justify anything. Phillip Pullman of course is another issue. Personally I really like the Northern Lights trilogy, but it does discuss by analogy certain theological issues that many theists could quite reasonably take objection to.
crazysamaritan 07-16-04, 11:48 AM	Another interesting tidbit about Narnia, is that even though it's so obviously Christian, my (ex-)girlfriend thought it was Wiccan, like her. :confused: She didn't quite understand the meaning behind JC's sacrifice, even though she was raised Methodist.
Amaron Blackthorn 07-16-04, 12:20 PM	the sad fact is that most people hate what they do not understand.