Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rickiel 03-08-07, 03:42 PM	Allow me to start from the beginning, one of my current DM's is running us through a very high-powered (and fun) game. And with this high power comes high risk. Especially, ESPECIALLy, from wishes. Now because of one wish, on my part, the party and two innocent bystanders got shunted onto the Outlands. Another wish used by a fellow PC got said PC reduced to a bloody paste :eek:! Our group has learned something here. Beware Wishing! However, with the newest source of wishes in our grasp (specifically a Ring of Three Wishes) I believe I may have come upon a rather well-worded wish. If only to diffuse at least one chance of us being slaughtered. The wish that I'm not sure how it will turn out is... I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor. Granted for a fighter my PC's rather devout. Almost a paladin...almost. Anyways, how do any of you good folk believe this wish will turn out? I'm going to find out how our DM reacts to it on Sunday. Good thing he doesn't read the Boards! :D
SephDragoon 03-08-07, 03:58 PM	Is that the entire wish? Because, you know... either A. I can't tell you because you didn't give me the rest, or B. It will do nothing, you didn't really wish for anything. Miracle is the equivalent of Wish, and let me tell you right now, if a diety wants a miracle to happen, it does, it doesn't require a spellcaster. A cleric casting Miracle just means the cleric is requesting one. That said, what makes you think Pelor wants to do anything with your wish? This wish will most likely be wasted.
FreAkOuTRG 03-08-07, 04:01 PM	I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor. When I read this, naughty thoughts spring into my head. More likely though, nothing will happen. It's just not specific enough. Although, who knows? Zeus sure got around.
Rickiel 03-08-07, 04:06 PM	"I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor." That is, indeed, the entirety of the wish. Heck, I'd be ECSTATIC if nothing happened! That's one less threat of a wish to come down upon us hapless PC's! Nothing MAKES me think that Pelor wants my wish. But he's my fighter's deity and so it made since IC to let Pelor do something, if anything, with it.
Seeker95 03-08-07, 04:34 PM	Depends on what Pelor wants. Leaving it that open-ended allows your DM to be as much of a wank as he wants.
LonePaladin 03-08-07, 05:04 PM	I've always wondered why DMs feel that they have to go to such lengths to pervert the results of EVERY wish that turns up in their games. Especially when it's clear that the character using the wish is simply trying to avert disaster, remove hindrances, or otherwise get themselves out of a jam. Mind you, I can see getting picky about it when it's clear that the wisher is simply trying to get themselves an unfair advantage. But most DMs I've encountered will try to be painfully literal with every wish they ever allow their players to gain. This only makes the players unnecessarily paranoid, forcing them to attach a lot of legalistic jargon on something as simple as wishing for their companions to be healed. If the wish fits within the limits of the spell, I don't see why it should be any more complicated than that. For wishes that fall outside of it, I believe that the DM should consider what the player's intention is — literal interpretation should be reserved for times when the player is clearly exploiting the opportunity. If the DM doesn't want people using wishes, he shouldn't allow them to be available. It's a much easier solution than resorting to scare-tactics.
GnomeBoy 03-08-07, 05:17 PM	When I read this, naughty thoughts spring into my head. More likely though, nothing will happen. It's just not specific enough. Although, who knows? Zeus sure got around. You're right! The commas throw off the meaning - in an 'eats, shoots and leaves' kind of way. Probably better to say something like, "I forfit my wish to the divine being Pelor" or somesuch. G.
zvbxrpl 03-08-07, 07:20 PM	Pelor would choose to sleep with the Goddess of beauty, and then to have the Demigod of foodstuffs make him the best sandwich ever. After all, sex and the best sandwich ever are like...um...uh...sex and the best sandwich ever!
Gideon_Gideonson 03-08-07, 08:03 PM	Pelor would choose to sleep with the Goddess of beauty, and then to have the Demigod of foodstuffs make him the best sandwich ever. After all, sex and the best sandwich ever are like...um...uh...sex and the best sandwich ever! Wait...really? :P
ArcTan 03-08-07, 08:15 PM	Allow me to start from the beginning, one of my current DM's is running us through a very high-powered (and fun) game. And with this high power comes high risk. Especially, ESPECIALLy, from wishes. Now because of one wish, on my part, the party and two innocent bystanders got shunted onto the Outlands. Another wish used by a fellow PC got said PC reduced to a bloody paste :eek:! Our group has learned something here. Beware Wishing! If you're having fun, do what you like, but wish isn't supposed to be *that* dangerous in the regular game. You only get dangerous, perverted wish fulfillments if you wish for things outside the guidelines of the wish spell. Using wish normally -- to wish for effects equivalent to an 8th-level spell or lower -- should never have dangerous side effects. However, with the newest source of wishes in our grasp (specifically a Ring of Three Wishes) I believe I may have come upon a rather well-worded wish. If only to diffuse at least one chance of us being slaughtered. The wish that I'm not sure how it will turn out is... I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor. Granted for a fighter my PC's rather devout. Almost a paladin...almost. I dunno. Wishing isn't supposed to work this way by default. A wish isn't intelligent -- it just grants what you tell it to grant. If you leave it open-ended like that, like "I wish for the best thing I could possibly have granted by this wish", or "I wish for something useful to my quest", by RAW I'd think the spell would just fail. Of course, that would be lame, so as a DM I'd rule that "the universe" somehow tries to fulfill your wish, but since the wish isn't that smart it'd do it in some very direct, very simple (not necessarily a perverse or hostile) way. The easiest way to grant this wish would be to mimic a divine spell that Pelor might grant you if you were a Cleric of Pelor -- probably take a powerful 8th-level-or-lower spell and cast it on a useful target for you. The wish might grant you a commune with Pelor, or grant you a greater planar ally, or cast resurrection on a recently fallen foe. Of course, a mean thing to do would be to use this wish to transport you somewhere and lay a geas on you to complete some kind of holy quest in that location. But I wouldn't really mind that, as long as it was a quest you were capable of completing and had a decent reward at the end.
Kouk 03-08-07, 11:05 PM	Wish for the goddess of love and beauty to be in love with you for eternity. Even if that turns out to kill you, it was probably worth it. Or you could just go with a nymph if wish isn't that strong.
TheChilliGod 03-08-07, 11:34 PM	If the wish just granted Pelor a free wish, he'd probably use it to give free food to all the starving orphans of a randomly-chosen large city on the entire material plane (including other worlds). Meaning that nothing will happen of major consequence. ... Either that, or he'd use it to get a free "Get out of Jail" card. Y'know, just in case.
ktgodstgarden 03-08-07, 11:53 PM	I'd say Pelor would just make the sun last a bit longer, giving the wishing character skin cancer. Thats what they get for worshipping a sun god in a world without sun screen! I love being a DM...
Rickiel 03-09-07, 12:02 AM	Sun cancer eh? Hmmm...would that be a Fort save to resist? And along the same vein, does that harm the wisher if said wisher is currently in a Maze? And by Maze I mean a Maze belonging to Her Dreaded Serenity kinda Maze!
Geogoose 03-09-07, 01:03 AM	The way the wish reads, I'd make it basically do nothing detectable by the Character. Pelor just got a tax cut, or one of his clerics automatically made a turning attempt. Most wishes require at least a target and a request or otherwise they are "SYNTAX ERROR".
danielinthewolvesden 03-09-07, 01:58 AM	Crocking wishes is often a cheap move by DMs. If the Wish is within the guidelines proposed by the wording in the PH, then it works. No crocking.
Norsesmithy 03-09-07, 02:04 AM	Have you instantly trade your fighter levels for paladin ones.
Freefall 03-09-07, 03:12 AM	Normally I would say that the wish does nothing. Like others have said, you aren't really wishing for anything to actually happen, and I don't think you can "give" wishes away like that (to me it basically sounds similar to wishing for more wishes). In any case, Pelor can effectively use Wish at will, with no chance of nasty DM contrived consequences, so there's no reason he'd do anything with it. However, this isn't a normal situation. You're DM seems to have made it pretty clear he'll do his best to hurt you with your own wishes, and something like this is about as bad as it gets, since it could be interpreted that you've just wished for Pelor to use your wish to do whatever he wants. Which would probably be some sort of divine retribution for calling upon Pelor for no real reason and without anything in particular requested. Kind of smacks of "taking the Lord's Name in vain." Anyway, typically the way to attempt to minimize nasty consequences is to be as specific with the wish as possible. Either account for all possibilities or make it so restricted that the DM simply can't do much of anything creative with it, and always try to use the least ambiguous words possible. You've basically done the opposite and made it so vague that it honestly shouldn't even work.
epifreak 03-09-07, 04:13 AM	Why not just make a wish clearly outlined by the guidelines in the PHB?
Millennium 03-09-07, 07:09 AM	I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor. Pelor changes your alignment to match his own and takes you bodily to his divine realm, where you become a powerful servant to Pelor for all eternity. The end.
Grand Theft Otto 03-09-07, 10:21 AM	How a DM grants a wish is a good litmus test of whether or not you should bother coming to the next session.
Rogue Shadows 03-09-07, 10:29 AM	I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor. I'm assuming, here, that this wish is made so that the very next wish you make will not be corrupted. Hmm. Pelor can do evil, you realize. Alignment isn't ironclad, it's overal tendency. A good deity can do evil things in order to promote good, and vice-versa. Hmm. I'd have to know what the upcoming Wish is
Far_Traveler 03-09-07, 10:46 AM	Your giving your wish to pelor huh? You are now a cleric. Have fun with your full spellcasting in armor.
deadman1204 03-09-07, 11:40 AM	Wish for a way to honor pelor, or something similar. Tie pelor into the wish so that the outcome will be favorable to your character's beliefs. Also, a nice safty net could be having the wish effect target someone(s) else. Wishing to feed a city for a year for example. It could be less likely you will die horribly because the magic is not targeting you. Also, if your afraid of what the DM will do, remind him that both of you are playing a GAME to have FUN.
Rickiel 03-09-07, 01:56 PM	Hmmm... Perhaps instead of diffusing the wish, as was my original plan, perhaps I actually CAN use it to help us out! One of my comrades had drawn from the Deck of Many Things (again) and is currently Imprisoned. I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor, in order to bring my comrade (comrade's name here) back from his imprisonment unharmed in any way and with his extraordinary, magical, and supernatural abilities restored upon arrival.
Silversheen197 03-09-07, 02:12 PM	A really easy way to stop DMs from messing with your wishes is to tack on a clause at the end that is something to the effect of "...without anything happening that would be construed as a negative effect by me or any of my allies." This should bottleneck the wish into doing only things that are good for the party (and, if there is a paladin, any innocents who happen to be nearby). The party gets top determine what it would consider to be a negative effect, so if the wish tries to pervert it in some way that you don't like, you can just decide "but I find that to be a negative effect!" Normally, if you've got a decent DM (decent here meaning resonable with wishes), you normally don't have to use this unless you're going all out with the wish, but it sounds like your DM likes to mess with wishes, so you should be able to get a hand up.
BlakesTiger 03-09-07, 02:24 PM	I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor, in order to bring my comrade (comrade's name here) back from his imprisonment unharmed in any way and with his extraordinary, magical, and supernatural abilities restored upon arrival. Is your DM really that cruel, or are you just paranoid? Wishes aren't supposed to be phrased out to consider every single possible corruption of the wording (unless, possibly, you're asking for a wish from an efreet). If your DM is so tough that you need to make paragraph long wishes, then you and your fellow players are better off not making wishes. If you're just being paranoid, follow the rule of "Simple is better." How I might have ruled your original phrasing of the wish would be either: The source of the wish granting is transported to someone that Pelor deems truly needs it and will truly use it for his purposes (and most likely someone you will never encounter or ever hear about). Thus, the equivalent of nothing. Or... You go back in time to ask the wish again, but this time you don't make a foolish, ambiguous wish, but one that actually benefits Pelor's cause. If I was feeling generous, I would give you suggestions. If I was feeling irked by your wish-wording, I would tell you what your character now wishes. As for your second wording of the wish, "I wish that <companion's specific name> be brought back to us restored and unharmed today." If that is too ambiguous, never ever make a wish under your current DM ever again.
GnomeBoy 03-09-07, 02:50 PM	I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor, in order to bring my comrade (comrade's name here) back from his imprisonment unharmed in any way and with his extraordinary, magical, and supernatural abilities restored upon arrival. Nit-picky, I know, but leave out the commas. Other wise you are saying the same thing as: "For this wish, I wish to be used..." ...which, come to think about it, is handing the DM a new plotline.:gah: Maybe you should go with it...! G.
Rickiel 03-09-07, 02:54 PM	Sorry about the comma's. Since our DM has us say the wishes aloud, not write them down then recite, I'm trying to memorize a decent wish that may help my pal.
GnomeBoy 03-09-07, 03:26 PM	Sorry about the comma's. Since our DM has us say the wishes aloud, not write them down then recite, I'm trying to memorize a decent wish that may help my pal. Oh, come on, think about it -- put yourself in the wish! Then its YOU saving your friend! :D G.
Rickiel 03-09-07, 03:30 PM	That would probably be either... A: The most plot worthy bit of bait that the DM will snag. or B: I don't want to know. But I'll put it under consideration :)
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-09-07, 03:39 PM	How dangerous a wish turns out to be is directly correlatory to how big a dick your DM is.
Firestar27 03-09-07, 03:51 PM	For the way your wish was worded, you would instantly be flung out into outer space and become the Earth's second sun. It would kill you of course, but then there would be more sun for the world to enjoy, so it would be worth it.
Pfisiar 03-09-07, 04:35 PM	DM's that pervert reasonable wishes are mean and should be disembowled by a spork-wielding brownie. DMs that pervert open-ended or poorly worded wishes are being the god that they are. DMs that pervert stupid and absurd wishes, such as wishing for a powerful artifact, are blessings against horrible PCs. Such DMs deserve a :cookie:
DreadArchon 03-09-07, 07:09 PM	Wish for all of your future wishes (ever) to be interpreted exactly as you meant them and without any unintended negative effects or side effects. :D
vardock 03-09-07, 08:07 PM	that is probably the best wish ever.
FrostHammer 03-09-07, 08:23 PM	if your DM perverts your reasonable wishes, tell him to redo it or you and the other players walk and start your own game, and he's not invited. It's very simple. Either stop being a dick or get kicked out of the group.
twad 03-09-07, 09:26 PM	How dangerous a wish turns out to be is directly correlatory to how big a dick your DM is. I kinda think the same here, games can be dangerous, fun and challenging enough without the DM going and basicaly crushing the PCs because he gave them something nice to play with. It not fun for anybody. (Except for him, maybe he feels all-powerfull because HE can decide what horrible fate wwill go down on the PCS) The Only way i could think of twisting a wish is if the PCs were making a deal with an Evil outsider that could grant wishes. Rickiel: What was the wish of the PC that have been turned into red paste?
Rickiel 03-10-07, 12:42 AM	That poor sorcerer... To set the scene for that one fatal wish, I'd like to introduce our board-surfing company to one whom we shall call, "the Arcane Chef"...don't ask. Now, the Arcane Chef was from a prosperous merchant family specializing in trade of magical items. Said Arcane Chef's family promptly died when the BBEG strolled into town. Said Arcane Chef intended to procure certain culinary items for... reasons I have no idea how to describe nor understand myself. During one shopping spree he went about loading sharp pointy knives into his Bag of Holding. Whoops. Bag of holding rips. Later on, we gain a magical sword with wishes. Arcane Chef decided to wish to have his magical items back. He got them all right. And not just the ones from his bag of holding. He got ALL of the magic items that were his by inheritance. And it all came crashing down. At the time the rest of the party had went about 500ft away when he heard the words "I wish".
Ogre4Hire 03-10-07, 01:09 AM	As has been already stated, you're DM's a jerk and you should find a new group to play with.
ArcTan 03-10-07, 01:53 PM	As has been already stated, you're DM's a jerk and you should find a new group to play with. It's a party with a character who's an "Arcane Chef". Clearly it's not that serious a game and not one where they're that invested in their characters. This kind of freewheeling, self-parodying "killer DM" style is fine for a campaign where people expect cartoonish unlikely events and take misfortunes to their characters as a joke. I mean, y'all notice that Rickiel doesn't actually seem upset about his killer DM, and actually seems to relish the idea of having his wish creatively and cruelly perverted, right?
GnomeBoy 03-10-07, 01:54 PM	if your DM perverts your reasonable wishes, tell him to redo it or you and the other players walk and start your own game, and he's not invited. It's very simple. Either stop being a dick or get kicked out of the group. Hmm, sounds like a very friendly game. Can I join? I notice from some of the profiles folks in this thread have, that some of you were born in the Eighties, which means you weren't playing in the Seventies or early Eighties. Back then, wishes were things to be afraid of, because it pretty much came down entirely to phrasing - there was no safety net as there is in 3e of the spell saying it duplicates certain effects without error. It was much more of a DM vs. Player game back then, and plenty of people still play D&D today in more or less that vein. As evidence, if you have ever seen the early '3rd party' books of Grimtooth's Traps, you'll know what I mean. The DM was out to get you! I'm sure this history has trickled down to today for some folk, and of course in this case it is also possible that this particular DM is old enough to remember that type of play. Anything a DM does is only wrong if all (or at least most of) the players agree they don't like it. Then the DM should consider changing his style. I don't think the OP mentioned that the DM was doing things wrong, just that he wanted help. In fact, he said the game was FUN! G.
Slightly_Unscrewed 03-11-07, 10:07 PM	My guess is that something, somehow, will ultimately catch on fire. Whether it's you or the bad guys depends on the DM. Also, something will probably get very badly sunburnt.
kelvinaw273 03-11-07, 11:39 PM	I wish, for this wish, to be used in a manner as seen fit by the divine being Pelor. This could result in the wish being wasted, only Pelor might not waste such a wish. Personally I would then have a holy sword appear in your hand or something, but I'm too nice.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-12-07, 11:00 AM	DM's that pervert reasonable wishes are mean and should be disembowled by a spork-wielding brownie. DMs that pervert open-ended or poorly worded wishes are being the god that they are. DMs that pervert stupid and absurd wishes, such as wishing for a powerful artifact, are blessings against horrible PCs. Such DMs deserve a :cookie: While I agree with the philosophy, I maintain a slightly more in-game mentality re. preverting wishes: A wish should only be preverted if it is being granted by an item or entity that actively seeks to prevert the wish. A wish granted from the wish spell, or a non-intelligent or non-aligned item like a ring, should always do precisely what the caster/wisher intends (within the limits of the wish spell description of course).
ArcTan 03-13-07, 02:35 PM	While I agree with the philosophy, I maintain a slightly more in-game mentality re. preverting wishes: A wish should only be preverted if it is being granted by an item or entity that actively seeks to prevert the wish. A wish granted from the wish spell, or a non-intelligent or non-aligned item like a ring, should always do precisely what the caster/wisher intends (within the limits of the wish spell description of course). The limits of the wish spell description actually say that trying to break those limits results in a perverted fulfillment. But yes, I would go along with the idea that wishes from demons or efreet are more likely to actively try to harm you, while a "perverted fulfillment" from a neutral object will most likely just cause the spell to fizzle.
Sikyanakotik 03-13-07, 03:40 PM	What's the worst that can happen? Pelor uses the Wish as a proxy, augmented with his own holy power, to remove Vecna from existence. The other evil gods, able to trace the source of the Wish but unaware of Pelor's interference, blame you. I think you can take it from there. :devil: To be honest, the best thing you can do with that ring is give it to the BBEG. Make the corruption work for you instead of against you. ;)
Pfisiar 03-13-07, 03:45 PM	What's the worst that can happen? Pelor uses the Wish as a proxy, augmented with his own holy power, to remove Vecna from existence. The other evil gods, able to trace the source of the Wish but unaware of Pelor's interference, blame you. I think you can take it from there. :devil: To be honest, the best thing you can do with that ring is give it to the BBEG. Make the corruption work for you instead of against you. ;) That is the coolest wish perversion I have ever heard. You win a :cookie:
Grod_The_Giant 03-13-07, 03:52 PM	Pelor reaches down from the heavens, picks you up, and drops you on an enimy stronghold. from a hundred miles up.
Pfisiar 03-13-07, 03:54 PM	Pelor reaches down from the heavens, picks you up, and drops you on an enimy stronghold. from a hundred miles up. That is the lamest wish perversion I have ever heard. We are all now dumber for having heard it. I award you no :cookie: and may the gods have mercy on your soul.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-13-07, 04:55 PM	The limits of the wish spell description actually say that trying to break those limits results in a perverted fulfillment. I was going on the assumption that the wish in question was reasonable and within the limits of the description. Even tehn, if one tries to break the limiatations, it should go south in some manner but not an the destructively hostile "frak you!" manner that it would if said wish was being granted be an intelligent malevolent entity or source. A wish that violates the set described parameters should result in a screwup, not a screwover.
Sikyanakotik 03-13-07, 07:52 PM	That is the coolest wish perversion I have ever heard. You win a :cookie: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/Sikyanakotik/koboldcookie.gif
skydin 03-13-07, 08:21 PM	heres what you do, wish for a new dm, trhen have your freinds rush the dm and tie him up, steal his notes, and apoint you the dm, hten give him your person and continue hte game, with everyones wishes going as planned...except his.repeat as nessicery.