Post/Author/DateTime	Post
indyrider 09-20-07, 11:12 PM	when 4 ed is stated to come out? and what rule books are they releasing first? do you think they should continue to make all these extra unecessary rule books like psionics- players handbook II- heroes of horror-- or just fatten up the basic books with all this extra info that they charge us $30 a pop for thanks
wizardguy2003 09-20-07, 11:17 PM	May, June, And July of next year. Players Handbook, Then Monster Manual, and finally Dungeon Master's Guide. I think august they are also putting out Forgotten Realms too.
Vectoris 09-20-07, 11:20 PM	I think the question you should be asking yourself is, "What game company isn't out to kill the hobby by over-pricing and creating new editions every 5 or six years, each with its own "new material." To which the answer is Kenzerco. While the systems may be a little more complex, they haven't changed. Its second edition, but better!
indyrider 09-20-07, 11:29 PM	vec--i agree. totally 1000% who are we? capitalists..... i feel that changing the darn "rules" in the books so often is way stupid.... WOTC--wanna makes some extra cash---change the pics and covers not the rules!!!!! thanks also wizardguy
IRememberCecil 09-20-07, 11:40 PM	I think the question you should be asking yourself is, "What game company isn't out to kill the hobby by over-pricing and creating new editions every 5 or six years, each with its own "new material." To which the answer is Kenzerco. While the systems may be a little more complex, they haven't changed. Its second edition, but better! Worst hyperbolic viral advertisement ever.
Seeker95 09-21-07, 09:18 AM	i feel that changing the darn "rules" in the books so often is way stupid....I have a little difficulty accepting as remotely compelling any argument written without capitalization, grammar, or punctuation. Throw in pejorative and unsupported jabs, and the argument becomes less than compelling; it becomes dismissable. Changing the rules "so often"? Advanced Dungeons & Dragons has had 4 editions in roughly 25 years. That's not even remotely close to "often".
seldom_seen 09-21-07, 11:53 AM	Changing the rules "so often"? Advanced Dungeons & Dragons has had 4 editions in roughly 25 years. That's not even remotely close to "often". Yeah, but how many times have they changed them in the past 10 years? It seems that the rule changes are coming along more frequently than in the first 10 or 15 years.
Seeker95 09-21-07, 12:37 PM	Yeah, but how many times have they changed them in the past 10 years?Major change in the past ten years? Once. 4e will make it twice. It seems that the rule changes are coming along more frequently than in the first 10 or 15 years.Depends on your overall perspective. D&D Release History Chainmail: 1971 (this is "pre-D&D) Dungeons & Dragons: 1974 D&D Basic Set: 1977 AD&D 1e: 1977 D&D Basic Set re-release: 1981 D&D Expert Set: 1981 D&D Companion Rules: 1983 D&D Master Rules: 1984 D&D Immortal Rules: 1985 AD&D 2e: 1989 Basic Set revised: 1991 AD&D 2e revised: 1995 AD&D 3e: 2000 AD&D 3.5: 2003 AD&D 4e: 2008 Release Pacing Fifteen distinct releases. Thirty-seven years. Average years between releases: 2.5 Advanced D&D Six distinct rule sets Thirty-one years Average years between rule sets: 5.1 "Core D&D" Releases 0e to 1e: 3 years 1e to 2e: 12 years 2e to 3e: 11 years 3e to 4e: 8 years Average between core releases: 8.5 years "Core D&D" + Revisions 0e to 1e: 3 years 1e to 2e: 12 years 2e to 2.5: 6 years 2.5 to 3e: 5 years 3e to 3.5: 3 years 3.5 to 4e: 5 years Average between revisions: 5.6 years
Araxiss 09-21-07, 04:35 PM	Nice work Seeker. Those are some interesting stats. :)
Altar_Boy 09-21-07, 06:38 PM	Very compelling, indeed. Besides, if the big videogame companies can spring a new system out every 8 years, why can't WotC?
seldom_seen 09-22-07, 10:58 AM	Nice work Seeker. Those are some interesting stats. :) Indeed! I will not question your time lines or dates. I guess my memory is faulty, 'cause it just seemed to me that there have been more than two complete rule changes in the past 10 or 12 years. I'll just have to wait for 4E like everybody else and hope for the best.
swammeyjoe 09-22-07, 02:23 PM	While you have a valid point, aren't any of us allowed to not want to change. I mean, mabey its just cuz i got into the game a few years back, but i dont want to have to buy new books, and i dont want to have to shell out money for new advancements that the game doesnt need. With house-rules, i guess i just dont see the need for 4e right now. And the online tabletop, dont get me started on that, although i think it will be a good thing as it will increase the average age of a OpenRPG user.
Seeker95 09-22-07, 03:18 PM	aren't any of us allowed to not want to change.You're not only allowed to not want to change, you are also allowed to choose not to change. The release of 4e will not make your 3e books fade away, nor will the ink in them disappear. The rules will still work as well (or as poorly) as they always have. I played Civ II last month. Worked just fine, despite Civ III, Alpha Centauri, and Civ IV all being released since then. The same will be true of 3e D&D. Finding other players may be harder after a while, but that'll probably be another year after the 4e launch before that kicks in. And if you're the DM, finding players is rarely a problem.
swammeyjoe 09-23-07, 02:21 AM	Yeah, i know, i know we will all buy the books and play the new edition. Thats just a fact of life, i just dont want to have to spend the money, lol. But on these forums it seems that you are not allowed to say anything negative at all, like it all has to be fully positive No offense to anyone, just my opinion.
IRememberCecil 09-23-07, 02:32 AM	You're not only allowed to not want to change, you are also allowed to choose not to change. The release of 4e will not make your 3e books fade away, nor will the ink in them disappear. The rules will still work as well (or as poorly) as they always have. I played Civ II last month. Worked just fine, despite Civ III, Alpha Centauri, and Civ IV all being released since then. The same will be true of 3e D&D. Finding other players may be harder after a while, but that'll probably be another year after the 4e launch before that kicks in. And if you're the DM, finding players is rarely a problem. Hell, I still play Fallout 2 from time to time, and I probably won't stop even after Fallout 3 comes out (it's not like I have to choose between them).
Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite 09-23-07, 10:05 AM	"Core D&D" + Revisions 0e to 1e: 3 years 1e to 2e: 12 years 2e to 2.5: 6 years 2.5 to 3e: 5 years 3e to 3.5: 3 years 3.5 to 4e: 5 years Average between revisions: 5.6 years A few other numbers, just for the record: Shadowrun 1st edition published in 1989 4th (current) edition published in 2005 (16 years later) That's an average of approximately 1 edition per 4 years. If this pattern continues, 5th edition should appear around 2009. If D&D editions followed this same pattern, we'd be looking forward to the 2008 release of 8th edition. GURPS 1st edition published in 1986 4th (current) edition published in 2004 (18 years later) That's an average of approximately 1 edition per 4.75 years. If this pattern continues, 5th edition should appear around 2009-10. If D&D editions followed this same pattern, we'd be just getting used to the rules of the recently-released 8th edition. Call of Cthulhu 1st edition published in 1981 4th edition published in 1989 (8 years later) That's an average of approximately 1 edition per 2 years. 6th (current) edition published in 2004 (23 years after 1st edition) That's an average of approximately 1 edition per 3.83 years. And that's not factoring in its multiple ".5" editions or the d20 version. If this pattern continues, 7th edition should appear this year or next. If D&D editions followed this same pattern, 2008 would mark the release of 10th edition. Tenth.