Post/Author/DateTime	Post
donlazy 09-11-04, 11:39 AM	Does an ogre get a AoO when Tordek rushes in to fight him? It seems like Tordek is focused on attacking his target and thus ready to deflect any AoO blows, but I'm not sure what the rules state. What about in DnD minis? Does reach 3 give Aspect of Lolth 2 AoO's against attackers? donlazy
Someone 09-11-04, 12:51 PM	The Ogre tordek is rushing wouldn't, but if the ogre had a buddy standing next to him, his buddy would. You are correct to mention that Tordek isn't dropping his guard against the ogre. Having extra reach won't get you more AoOs, you can only get one AoO against an enemy who moves out of your threatened area, regardless of how far they go, and what your reach is.
memberZ 09-11-04, 01:03 PM	As tordek closes from 10 feet away to 5feet(adjacent square) so he can attack the big guy , the Ogre gets to whack(AoO) at him right before he enters the adjacent square. Multiple AoO's on same target: 1) need combat reflexes(and a dex high enough to use it) and 2) a secondary AoO trigger , like casting a spell within range, or using a ranged weapon. Moving only triggers one AoO in the round per attacker.
Darrett 09-11-04, 01:36 PM	The Ogre tordek is rushing wouldn't, but if the ogre had a buddy standing next to him, his buddy would. You are correct to mention that Tordek isn't dropping his guard against the ogre. Having extra reach won't get you more AoOs, you can only get one AoO against an enemy who moves out of your threatened area, regardless of how far they go, and what your reach is. It will, actually. The ogre has reach, and Tordek is moving out of squares that the ogre threatens. The movement itself counts as a drop in defense. If you move into 5 foot range of something with 15 foot reach that has Combat Reflexes, they get two AoOs on you (Provided they have a positive Dex Mod).
Egres 09-11-04, 01:46 PM	If you move into 5 foot range of something with 15 foot reach that has Combat Reflexes, they get two AoOs on you (Provided they have a positive Dex Mod). Incorrect. From the SRD: Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent
Darrett 09-11-04, 02:30 PM	Incorrect. From the SRD: Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent Ah yes, forgot about that little bit. I've never run into this situation in a game (Generally there's not a whole lot of moving going around, just a pile of fighting in the middle) so it's not something I ever call upon. However, you do provoke an AoO as you move out of the square, as was said above.
Someone 09-12-04, 02:42 AM	There's another thread elsewhere on the boards that's talking about this exact issue. For sake of convienence, I'll say here what I said there. In paraphrase. You're not "leaving" his threatened area to get closer, you're still entering his threatened area (which does not draw AoO). If you move sideways or away from him, then you would draw an AoO. And you're moving "sideways" compared to whatever is standing next to him, which would get an AoO, if it could reach you. The benefit of reach is an increased threatened area, not an increase in AoO triggers. If you really want to smack them as they get close, ready an attack to do so.
Fixxxer 09-12-04, 03:53 AM	You're not "leaving" his threatened area to get closer, you're still entering his threatened area (which does not draw AoO). This is not how the mechanics of the game see it. An ogre has 10ft reach and can attack within 5ft as well. When you close the distance and move into the 10ft square, you're good to go. When you continue closing the distance, you are leaving the 10ft square to move into the 5ft square, thus you are leaving a square that is threatened by your opponent, thus you provoke an AoO. It doesn't matter that in order to close to melee distance, you are forced to do this. You have other options (ranged weapons, reach weapons, etc).
Someone 09-12-04, 02:17 PM	woo-hoo! I get to argue with THE Fixxxer! I'm never washing this post again?!? :uh-huh: :looloo: Though the parallel thread in the combat section is confusing me into what I've already said in each.... I'm of the ruling that reach allows you to threaten more squares, not make AoOs when you otherwise can't. One doesn't have "orbitals" of threatened squares, its more like quadrants (or octrants, as the case may be). Changing/ leaving quadrants would draw AoOs, but I wouldn't mind if you wern't subject to move AoOs if you stayed in one quadrant. In any case, moving closer isn't a continuation of a move, its still the original move. When you move past someone, its all the same move when you enter their reach, move through their reach, and exit their reach. Its the action "move past (or simply not twoards) them" that draws the AoO. And since the action "move closer" doesn't draw AoOs, the target wouldn't get AoOs when you enter their reach, or move through their reach. (kinda hard to exit their reach when you're moving closer).
Fixxxer 09-12-04, 02:32 PM	woo-hoo! I get to argue with THE Fixxxer! I'm never washing this post again?!? Well...that's up to you, but I should warn you that I was drinking last night and I had a little bit of an...uhh...accident...in the corner over there. :D I'm of the ruling that reach allows you to threaten more squares, not make AoOs when you otherwise can't. One doesn't have "orbitals" of threatened squares, its more like quadrants (or octrants, as the case may be). Changing/ leaving quadrants would draw AoOs, but I wouldn't mind if you wern't subject to move AoOs if you stayed in one quadrant. In any case, moving closer isn't a continuation of a move, its still the original move. When you move past someone, its all the same move when you enter their reach, move through their reach, and exit their reach. Its the action "move past (or simply not twoards) them" that draws the AoO. And since the action "move closer" doesn't draw AoOs, the target wouldn't get AoOs when you enter their reach, or move through their reach. (kinda hard to exit their reach when you're moving closer). I understand the point you're trying to make. However, I still think it's incorrect. By the logic that you've given thus far, it would seem that someone who had the movement to do so could walk up on a guy and dance circles around him and they would not generate an AoO so long as they stayed within his "quadrant" of threatened space. I think you're taking a blurb in the rules a little too literally here. The short area of the rules that mentions that you don't provoke an AoO for further movement is there to deal with the idea that you shouldn't be subject to 3 AoO from the same guy for closing to melee with him once. However, this doesn't mean that you are immune to AoO from hi completely. He still gets the one (and any others from sources other than direct movement). The last thing I can think to point out right now is that by your logic, certain reach weapons are completely useless. The spiked chain and the duom are supposed to be mechanically better than the longspear because they allow you to attack at both 10ft and 5ft. If we use your interpretation of the rules, they are mechanically much worse, since a person could just continue closing to melee with them without provoking an AoO because he's not leaving their threatened "quadrant." Simply put, this cannot be what the designers had in mind.
Zherog 09-12-04, 09:57 PM	Fixxxer is completely correct. Any time you leave a threatened square - in any direction - you provoke an attack of opportunity. Regardless of how much movement you make in a round, though, you can only provoke one AoO per creature for that movement - if if you dance in a circle around them.
Someone 09-13-04, 01:35 AM	I don't have a problem with the dance around thing, as one would have to leave the threatened area, or at least draw an AoO from the "dancing like an idiot" trigger. That said, it probably wasn't the best example. Not sure what the heck I was thinking... As for blurbs and overuse, I like the little bit the movement and AoOs that mentions "leaving a threatened square usually draws AoOs". I have no problem with the exceptions being the withdraw action and moving closer. On a more general side, I find it hard to beleive you would drop your guard the second you have to move within their reach to have your charge hit home. Against other opponents, yes, you're focusing on your target, not them. But since you're focusing on the target, you're not dropping your guard to them. Well...that's up to you, but I should warn you that I was drinking last night and I had a little bit of an...uhh...accident...in the corner over there.That's an image I didn't want... An illithid retching... That and "Dude! I recognised part of that! That was bob's!"
Fixxxer 09-13-04, 05:13 PM	On a more general side, I find it hard to beleive you would drop your guard the second you have to move within their reach to have your charge hit home. Against other opponents, yes, you're focusing on your target, not them. But since you're focusing on the target, you're not dropping your guard to them. What I've always had a problem with is the widespread assumption that the reason you provoke an AoO always has to be that you somehow dropped your guard. In this situation, why can't it be that you've made it perfectly obvious what area you are going to be moving through, so your opponent attacks there, hoping to get lucky? As for blurbs and overuse, I like the little bit the movement and AoOs that mentions "leaving a threatened square usually draws AoOs". I have no problem with the exceptions being the withdraw action and moving closer. That's perfectly fine. If it works in your game, by all means, go to it. However, you offered this information up as though it were the official, core way of doing things...which it's not. "The benefit of reach is an increased threatened area, not an increase in AoO triggers" is simply not true as far as the core rules are concerned. The major benefit of having reach is that you get to make more AoOs, which is why it can be so much more difficult fighting ogres than orcs (for example). Bob had it comming, by the way. He shouldn't have been wearing that brown hat...looked too much like gravy. :88E:
Someone 09-14-04, 02:03 PM	In order to attack where your opponent is going to be would be readying an attack. Wait, I'm official? Woo-hoo! Do I get a shiny badge and... oh wait, you said I'm not official. And you're right. I'm not. I'm trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to provide reasons/ examples/ references that would give others on these boards reason to interpret the rules similarly to how I do. If the AoO thing were only a property of reach weapons, then I guess I could be persuaded to go along (not enough people use reach weapons anyway). But larger creatures have longer reach because they take up a larger footprint and can't pack as closely around a target as smaller creatures. Wait, Bob wasn't wearing a hat... Maybe that's what upset your stomach... Hairball...
Sulaco 09-14-04, 02:40 PM	There's another thread elsewhere on the boards that's talking about this exact issue. For sake of convienence, I'll say here what I said there. In paraphrase. You're not "leaving" his threatened area to get closer, you're still entering his threatened area (which does not draw AoO). If you move sideways or away from him, then you would draw an AoO. And you're moving "sideways" compared to whatever is standing next to him, which would get an AoO, if it could reach you. The benefit of reach is an increased threatened area, not an increase in AoO triggers. If you really want to smack them as they get close, ready an attack to do so. You aren't leaving a threatened area, you are leaving a threatened square. Whether you are leaving the square to get closer to or further away from the creature that threatens it is irrelevant.