Appearance score [Archive] - Wizards Community

Appearance score [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
theimposter187
10-01-05, 07:50 PM I was just wondering if anyone here uses appearance as a 7th ability for characters. The guy running our current game uses them. It has added a bit of fun to the game for my character. I am playing a half-ogre female barbarian. I rolled a 6 for her App score, and he said half-ogres get a -5 to APP, so that gave me an App of 1. He said that is the appearance score of a rotting corpse, so it has been fun playing her trying to find a husband. Does anyone else use them, and has it had any effect on your games?
hiryuu
10-01-05, 07:59 PM No, the "appearance score" doesn't really work all that well. Someone's physical appearance is always up for debate, and there's no hard and fast rule for how good-looking someone is, especially in a fantasy world.

What looks pretty for a half-orc certainly isn't what is pretty for a human or a dwarf, and vice-versa.
BlaineTog
10-01-05, 07:59 PM Subdividing Charisma is a baaaaaad idea. Charisma is already the least valuable stat. An "Appearance" score would be totally useless to nearly everyone. It would be the perfect dump stat, from a a min/max perspective anyway.

Not to mention that Beauty is in the eye ofthe beholder anyway.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-01-05, 09:35 PM Not to mention that Beauty is in the eye ofthe beholder anyway.

The big central one or one of the weird tendrilly ones?
allenchan
10-01-05, 10:56 PM I was just wondering if anyone here uses appearance as a 7th ability for characters. The guy running our current game uses them. It has added a bit of fun to the game for my character. I am playing a half-ogre female barbarian. I rolled a 6 for her App score, and he said half-ogres get a -5 to APP, so that gave me an App of 1. He said that is the appearance score of a rotting corpse, so it has been fun playing her trying to find a husband. Does anyone else use them, and has it had any effect on your games?

Boo. Hiss.
Roreck
10-02-05, 01:07 AM I would allow such a score. But the score would be determined by the player ie it would not be rolled for or bought with point buy. The player will just pick a number bettween 3-18 for their looks getting different bonuses depending on who they are dealing with. IE Orcs look pretty bad to humans but might be actractive to other orcs.

EX. A fighter has a CHA 8 but he looks like an 18, basically he/she would be attractive but have the personality of a Dire Boar.

EX2: A sorcer with CHA 18 but looks like an 8, basically bad looking but with a powerful personality.

One benefit of this is it would help players visualize their own character and the characters of everyone else.
Escef
10-02-05, 02:00 AM The 1e Unearthed Arcana introduced the Comliness stat, which was an appearence score. It was generally useless. There is a reason why it was never resurrected in 2e or 3e.

However, if you and your group are having fun with it, great. Just keep in mind that you are in the minority.
High Octane
10-02-05, 02:22 AM Dont bother. Just have everyone look the way they want. Of course, use common sense.

If they keep making pretty characters, have something bad happen because of it. For example, you dont want to go to jail when pretty. No you don't.

But reserve that for REALLY obnoxious players.

Anyway, I was considering adding an appearance factor the game. The thing is, I made all the things neither good or bad. Each part has a rating. For Example, 1-10: 1 is intimidating, 10 is amicable. If you look amicable, you will have an easier time talking to people, but are far less likely to walk down the street without someone deciding to mess with you. Intimidating you are basically making an intimidation check all the time without the harsh consequences.

The entire point is what kind of initial reaction people will have. It helps players be more creative if they are given a little push like that. The key is though, dont make one way better than the other so one always favor that way.
KJW
10-02-05, 07:56 AM I would advise against it, because as has been said beauty if highly subjective. I can see why you would want it, but think about the complexities. An orc with a 6 Appearance (by human standards), really would have a 16 to other orcs, 11 to goblins, -4 to elves, and so forth. Even among humans if you asked about who people on these boards thought was 'beautiful' you would get a lot of different answers, some would directly conflict.

I do consider a small part of charisma appearance, but it's more personality and I also think that is better. You don't want your campaign descending into a situation where every NPC is judged by their appearance, it may be realistic, but its not heroic fantasy. Then you would get feats like Hair Swirl for +2 to Appearance and Master of Makeup for +4 to Appearance until tears, blood, or rain ruins the effect, and so forth. Is that the direction you want to go? :)

That said in most campaigns I have been in, the moment a female NPC is described as beautiful there is a 90% chance that she is evil and aiming to destroy a PC or the party. The old "look fairer, feel fouler" rule of roleplaying. It's a running joke in my campaigns.
weasel fierce
10-02-05, 02:38 PM we use it occasionally. Regardless of how the remaining stats are generated, appearnace is rolled on a strict 3D6.
Salla
10-02-05, 04:30 PM I just let the players decide how their characters look, no 'score' required. If they want to play handsome characters, go for it. If they want to play an ugly one, go for it. I figure, in a world as diverse as D&D, especially since I tend to play it pretty 'enlightened' for a pseudo-medaeval setting, nobody really CARES what you look like, kinda like Star Trek. If anybody cares that you're a half-orc, then that's a character flaw of theirs, not standard behavior.
Reprisal
10-02-05, 08:47 PM If you truly need to deal with Appearance, I would suggest that you have it as the seventh ability score, but one that does not need points or dice rolled to determine what it is... I would simply ask, "With your Charisma score taken into account, what would your character's Appearance score be?"

Then, ideally, the player would think, 'Well, my NG Human Fighter is heading into Sorcerer pretty soon, so I have his Charisma pretty high. That being said, I don't think he'd be all that good-looking, but rather it's his personality that lends to his socerous aptitude. I'll make his Appearance score 11; good, but still average.'

Or perhaps this: 'My Cleric's intelligence is pretty low. At a score of 8, I don't think his personality is very charming despite his Wisdom score of 17 and his Charisma of 14. I'll make it that his high social standing is based very much around his Appearance, which I'll set at 16.'

Setting Appearance down as a numbered trait can help in certain ways, meaning that you needn't rely on descriptive ability that you may or may not possess to ensure that your character is seen as physically attractive (or repulsive), but I wouldn't make players pay for it through point buy or dice-rolling unless your campaign deals with social situations more than combat or puzzle-solving. If it's like this, however, I would suggest that you adopt some house rules for "social combat" where Charisma is akin to Social Strength, Wisdom is alikened to Social Constitution, and Intelligence is comparable with Social Dexterity. Hit Points could instead be "Reputation Points" where you roll some set die for each class and add Wisdom to the total for each level.

This is, of course, just off the top of my head... :cool:

- Rep.
Super_Demolition_Christ
10-02-05, 09:27 PM I vote in favor of the person choosing their App score. And I think its not to bad an idea to have it as just a general way of knowing how beautiful someone is. Like elves would probably have an appearnce score between 12 and 20, but might not really have good charisma. You could also choose that in some cases, a player could substitue his Char with App for checks like Gather info, bluff, diplomacy.
TILEY
10-02-05, 09:41 PM Not to mention that Beauty is in the eye ofthe beholder anyway.
Yeah, personally I think half-ogres can be cute.

Appearance scores is more so a no for me, though still it does prove interesting. Personality has to count at some point anyways.
dan1234
10-02-05, 09:42 PM We usely play as you roll 3d6 +you charisma mod. You have no penalties for races and such. If you have 18 orc, or 5 orc. You just nicer to other orcs, or your like a ugly human to humans, whatever. It just adds a bit more fun I guess.
Ranger REG
10-03-05, 04:59 AM I was just wondering if anyone here uses appearance as a 7th ability for characters. The guy running our current game uses them. It has added a bit of fun to the game for my character. I am playing a half-ogre female barbarian. I rolled a 6 for her App score, and he said half-ogres get a -5 to APP, so that gave me an App of 1. He said that is the appearance score of a rotting corpse, so it has been fun playing her trying to find a husband. Does anyone else use them, and has it had any effect on your games?
Used it in 1e games. Never liked it but the veteran gamer superior to us happened to like it so we deferred. Something about validating what he draw for his character. (Vanity would be an understatement about him.) :rolleyes:

I always keep making him try draw an elf that is Com 7, or critique his portrait as not being able to capture Com 21. I also learned a hard lesson: Never frustrate a veteran gamer despite his quirks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
theimposter187 10-01-05, 07:50 PM	I was just wondering if anyone here uses appearance as a 7th ability for characters. The guy running our current game uses them. It has added a bit of fun to the game for my character. I am playing a half-ogre female barbarian. I rolled a 6 for her App score, and he said half-ogres get a -5 to APP, so that gave me an App of 1. He said that is the appearance score of a rotting corpse, so it has been fun playing her trying to find a husband. Does anyone else use them, and has it had any effect on your games?
hiryuu 10-01-05, 07:59 PM	No, the "appearance score" doesn't really work all that well. Someone's physical appearance is always up for debate, and there's no hard and fast rule for how good-looking someone is, especially in a fantasy world. What looks pretty for a half-orc certainly isn't what is pretty for a human or a dwarf, and vice-versa.
BlaineTog 10-01-05, 07:59 PM	Subdividing Charisma is a baaaaaad idea. Charisma is already the least valuable stat. An "Appearance" score would be totally useless to nearly everyone. It would be the perfect dump stat, from a a min/max perspective anyway. Not to mention that Beauty is in the eye ofthe beholder anyway.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-01-05, 09:35 PM	Not to mention that Beauty is in the eye ofthe beholder anyway. The big central one or one of the weird tendrilly ones?
allenchan 10-01-05, 10:56 PM	I was just wondering if anyone here uses appearance as a 7th ability for characters. The guy running our current game uses them. It has added a bit of fun to the game for my character. I am playing a half-ogre female barbarian. I rolled a 6 for her App score, and he said half-ogres get a -5 to APP, so that gave me an App of 1. He said that is the appearance score of a rotting corpse, so it has been fun playing her trying to find a husband. Does anyone else use them, and has it had any effect on your games? Boo. Hiss.
Roreck 10-02-05, 01:07 AM	I would allow such a score. But the score would be determined by the player ie it would not be rolled for or bought with point buy. The player will just pick a number bettween 3-18 for their looks getting different bonuses depending on who they are dealing with. IE Orcs look pretty bad to humans but might be actractive to other orcs. EX. A fighter has a CHA 8 but he looks like an 18, basically he/she would be attractive but have the personality of a Dire Boar. EX2: A sorcer with CHA 18 but looks like an 8, basically bad looking but with a powerful personality. One benefit of this is it would help players visualize their own character and the characters of everyone else.
Escef 10-02-05, 02:00 AM	The 1e Unearthed Arcana introduced the Comliness stat, which was an appearence score. It was generally useless. There is a reason why it was never resurrected in 2e or 3e. However, if you and your group are having fun with it, great. Just keep in mind that you are in the minority.
High Octane 10-02-05, 02:22 AM	Dont bother. Just have everyone look the way they want. Of course, use common sense. If they keep making pretty characters, have something bad happen because of it. For example, you dont want to go to jail when pretty. No you don't. But reserve that for REALLY obnoxious players. Anyway, I was considering adding an appearance factor the game. The thing is, I made all the things neither good or bad. Each part has a rating. For Example, 1-10: 1 is intimidating, 10 is amicable. If you look amicable, you will have an easier time talking to people, but are far less likely to walk down the street without someone deciding to mess with you. Intimidating you are basically making an intimidation check all the time without the harsh consequences. The entire point is what kind of initial reaction people will have. It helps players be more creative if they are given a little push like that. The key is though, dont make one way better than the other so one always favor that way.
KJW 10-02-05, 07:56 AM	I would advise against it, because as has been said beauty if highly subjective. I can see why you would want it, but think about the complexities. An orc with a 6 Appearance (by human standards), really would have a 16 to other orcs, 11 to goblins, -4 to elves, and so forth. Even among humans if you asked about who people on these boards thought was 'beautiful' you would get a lot of different answers, some would directly conflict. I do consider a small part of charisma appearance, but it's more personality and I also think that is better. You don't want your campaign descending into a situation where every NPC is judged by their appearance, it may be realistic, but its not heroic fantasy. Then you would get feats like Hair Swirl for +2 to Appearance and Master of Makeup for +4 to Appearance until tears, blood, or rain ruins the effect, and so forth. Is that the direction you want to go? :) That said in most campaigns I have been in, the moment a female NPC is described as beautiful there is a 90% chance that she is evil and aiming to destroy a PC or the party. The old "look fairer, feel fouler" rule of roleplaying. It's a running joke in my campaigns.
weasel fierce 10-02-05, 02:38 PM	we use it occasionally. Regardless of how the remaining stats are generated, appearnace is rolled on a strict 3D6.
Salla 10-02-05, 04:30 PM	I just let the players decide how their characters look, no 'score' required. If they want to play handsome characters, go for it. If they want to play an ugly one, go for it. I figure, in a world as diverse as D&D, especially since I tend to play it pretty 'enlightened' for a pseudo-medaeval setting, nobody really CARES what you look like, kinda like Star Trek. If anybody cares that you're a half-orc, then that's a character flaw of theirs, not standard behavior.
Reprisal 10-02-05, 08:47 PM	If you truly need to deal with Appearance, I would suggest that you have it as the seventh ability score, but one that does not need points or dice rolled to determine what it is... I would simply ask, "With your Charisma score taken into account, what would your character's Appearance score be?" Then, ideally, the player would think, 'Well, my NG Human Fighter is heading into Sorcerer pretty soon, so I have his Charisma pretty high. That being said, I don't think he'd be all that good-looking, but rather it's his personality that lends to his socerous aptitude. I'll make his Appearance score 11; good, but still average.' Or perhaps this: 'My Cleric's intelligence is pretty low. At a score of 8, I don't think his personality is very charming despite his Wisdom score of 17 and his Charisma of 14. I'll make it that his high social standing is based very much around his Appearance, which I'll set at 16.' Setting Appearance down as a numbered trait can help in certain ways, meaning that you needn't rely on descriptive ability that you may or may not possess to ensure that your character is seen as physically attractive (or repulsive), but I wouldn't make players pay for it through point buy or dice-rolling unless your campaign deals with social situations more than combat or puzzle-solving. If it's like this, however, I would suggest that you adopt some house rules for "social combat" where Charisma is akin to Social Strength, Wisdom is alikened to Social Constitution, and Intelligence is comparable with Social Dexterity. Hit Points could instead be "Reputation Points" where you roll some set die for each class and add Wisdom to the total for each level. This is, of course, just off the top of my head... :cool: - Rep.
Super_Demolition_Christ 10-02-05, 09:27 PM	I vote in favor of the person choosing their App score. And I think its not to bad an idea to have it as just a general way of knowing how beautiful someone is. Like elves would probably have an appearnce score between 12 and 20, but might not really have good charisma. You could also choose that in some cases, a player could substitue his Char with App for checks like Gather info, bluff, diplomacy.
TILEY 10-02-05, 09:41 PM	Not to mention that Beauty is in the eye ofthe beholder anyway. Yeah, personally I think half-ogres can be cute. Appearance scores is more so a no for me, though still it does prove interesting. Personality has to count at some point anyways.
dan1234 10-02-05, 09:42 PM	We usely play as you roll 3d6 +you charisma mod. You have no penalties for races and such. If you have 18 orc, or 5 orc. You just nicer to other orcs, or your like a ugly human to humans, whatever. It just adds a bit more fun I guess.
Ranger REG 10-03-05, 04:59 AM	I was just wondering if anyone here uses appearance as a 7th ability for characters. The guy running our current game uses them. It has added a bit of fun to the game for my character. I am playing a half-ogre female barbarian. I rolled a 6 for her App score, and he said half-ogres get a -5 to APP, so that gave me an App of 1. He said that is the appearance score of a rotting corpse, so it has been fun playing her trying to find a husband. Does anyone else use them, and has it had any effect on your games? Used it in 1e games. Never liked it but the veteran gamer superior to us happened to like it so we deferred. Something about validating what he draw for his character. (Vanity would be an understatement about him.) :rolleyes: I always keep making him try draw an elf that is Com 7, or critique his portrait as not being able to capture Com 21. I also learned a hard lesson: Never frustrate a veteran gamer despite his quirks.