Arcane vs Psionic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane vs Psionic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Magicianguy131
10-14-06, 06:24 PM Each spellcaster has a place in the world but how would a Psion fit into this?
Wizards are in councils and they are rulers. Clerics heal and help *I know evil ones but ya*. Sorcerers are well sorcerers. How would psions fit into this equation?
Dragoncat
10-14-06, 06:45 PM Seers are advisors, sages, loremasters, and masters of espionage.
Shapers are craftsmen, architects, summoners, and engineers.
Kineticists are walking artillery platforms.
Egoists can be healers and shapeshifters.
Nomads are scouts, explorers, transportation experts, and time travelers.
Telepaths are negotiators, spies, messengers and interrogators.

And that's only using discipline powers. Psions can be anything.
Tempest Stormwind
10-14-06, 06:51 PM *sigh*

Seriously, if you're looking into stereotypes, you're already way off.

Default flavor, thick on the stereotype? Any place where a sorcerer could fit in (which you seem to assume they can by virtue of Something, We Know Not What), a psion or wilder could.

(Yes, there are more manifesters than just psions: using just WotC material, there's six types of psion (egoist, nomad, kineticist, shaper, seer, telepath), the wilder, the psychic warrior, the ardent (which has potentially more subdivisions than psions; depending on mantle choice ardents can feel like ANYTHING), the divine mind, and the lurk, not to mention the psychic rogue variant and the soulknife. You can't lump these together.)

As for non-Greyhawk worlds (and seriously, who games in worlds THAT full of stereotype?), there's world-specific locales.

You want a few great examples? Here.

Dark Sun: Psionics are prevalent and widespread, particularly among adventurers (who often escaped from slave-pits using their talents). Arcane magic is outlawed (well, READING is outlawed...) but the world is led by sorcerer-kings of a sort. The gods have forsaken the place, but clerics exist (worshipping the cardinal elements) and druids are the major non-urban spiritual leaders. The closest to a traditional cleric is probably the Templar, a law-enforcement officer empowered by the dragon-kings.

Eberron: Low-level magic is relatively common (even on the commercial level), high-level ANYTHING is rare. Psionics are more prevalent than most would admit -- there's an entire psionic continent (controlled by extraplanar nightmare-creatures), a psionic PC race, a secretive antagonistic organization that relies on psionics (also connected to the dreams), and the psionics that spawned from the aberration invasion ages ago (and currently exists in that world's underdark). However, due to the nature of psionics (which can be hidden easily), the fact that the evil organization is SECRET, the need for stealth on the part of the psionic race, and the fact that the psionic aberrants are underground, it's perfectly fine to ignore psionics altogether when running in Eberron, and having them run behind-the-scenes that the PCs can't detect.

Faerun: There are numerous psionic colleges in Faerun, similar to fringe wizard schools. There's also a substantial element of psionics in the mind flayers, and a small tradition in the drow. Faerun, however, isn't accommodating of psionics, and generally treats them like scum in most of the books. But no one's ever claimed Faerun followed any form of logic.

As for others? Come on, be creative. It's easier than you think -- I've seen people reflavor psionics (without changing the mechanics) to fit the bill for everything from dream magic to gnosis (similar to real-world occult colleges) to Naruto ninjutsu. Don't believe me? Check the Truenaming Psionics link in my sig.

A better question would be "where CAN'T they fit?" I find it easier to fit psionics into new worlds than I do existing magic.
Seeker95
10-14-06, 07:40 PM Wizards are in councils and they are rulers.Maybe in your world. Not in mine.
Lina_Inverse
10-14-06, 09:24 PM Wizards are scientists.

Fixxed.

Psionics is just another flavor of magic.

Wizards draw there magic from understanding the laws of magic.
Clerics draw there magic from some force via faith.
Druids draw there magic from nature.
Sorcerers draw it from a magical bloodline.

Psions draw magic from the deep dark portions of the mind.
kelvinaw273
10-14-06, 09:36 PM The biggest problem with psionics is the name. It implies a scientific basis for the arts, not a mystical one.

I devide magic into four catagories:

Divine - sourced from deities (I don't allow non-deity clerics): Users are prophets (favoured souls) and priests (clerics, druids, shamen etc)
Planar - sourced from outer planer energies: Users are Incarnum and warlocks.
Arcane - divised by Dragons, sourced from manipulation of mystical energies: users are all normal arcane casters.
Internal - drawn from within an individual, users are called Mystics: All the psionic classes.
Zevox
10-14-06, 09:42 PM Faerun: There are numerous psionic colleges in Faerun, similar to fringe wizard schools. There's also a substantial element of psionics in the mind flayers, and a small tradition in the drow. Faerun, however, isn't accommodating of psionics, and generally treats them like scum in most of the books. But no one's ever claimed Faerun followed any form of logic.
Eh, the reason they're not mentioned much in many books has to do with TSR wanting Psionics to be primarily a Dark Sun thing back in 2e, and thus downplaying them in the Realms.

In point of fact, Faerūn once had a nation that was a Psiocracy: Jhaamdath, a nation founded by a Psychic Warrior and consisting of twelve cities, six of which were each a center of psionic learning focused around one of the six psionic disciplines. It was governed by psionicists, and of particular influence were the Psiarchs (Psion/Priests of the God of Psionics and Reason, Auppenser), who promoted learning of the Invisible Art (as psionics are called on Toril) and opposed slavery. Unfortunately after about 5,000 years of relative peace it became a militaristic nation that made the mistake of stepping on the toes of some Elves while trying to expand their nation, and about twenty years later the Elves decided to employ High Magic to rid themselves of the arrogant nation of human psionicists constantly trying to take thier lands. End result: Jhaamdath destroyed in giant tidal wave, and the single largest source of psionics in the continent (barring naturally psionic races like Mind Flayers and Duergar) is lost. Which leads to the scarcity of psionics overall in Faerūn today, little more than 1,500 years after its descruction.

Though the long-sleeping Auppenser has been stirring of late, so its distinctly possible that Faerūn will soon see a rebirth of the Invisible Art in the more common races.

So then, theres an example of Psionics in Faerūn for the OP :) .

Zevox
Tempest Stormwind
10-15-06, 12:13 AM The biggest problem with psionics is the name. It implies a scientific basis for the arts, not a mystical one.Just to clear things up: Modern "psychic" activity is pseudoscience at best. It makes no testable predictions, nor can it be disproven. The only reason the word "psionic" seems scientific is because the word's been used in sci-fi to describe magical effects -- in other words, it's just another flavor of magic. Inherently, there's nothing scientific about psionics.

(As might be apparent from the thread I mentioned, though, I do agree the name is a big reason why people avoid it; that and stigma from earlier editions. Which has about as much bearing on this edition as complaints about THAC0 do. I have no quarrel with what you've said; just the terminology in that sentence -- and that's my scientific side speaking, not my inner gamer.)

Zevox: I knew about Auppenser (hell, two of the PrCs and one of the organizations in Untapped Potential were based off of that! They were reflavored for OGL concerns, but were originally the Disciple and Fist of Auppenser), and the names do ring a bell (likely from Lost Empires of Faerun; I don't know about earlier). Still, thanks for the lesson -- it's helpful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Magicianguy131 10-14-06, 06:24 PM	Each spellcaster has a place in the world but how would a Psion fit into this? Wizards are in councils and they are rulers. Clerics heal and help I know evil ones but ya. Sorcerers are well sorcerers. How would psions fit into this equation?
Dragoncat 10-14-06, 06:45 PM	Seers are advisors, sages, loremasters, and masters of espionage. Shapers are craftsmen, architects, summoners, and engineers. Kineticists are walking artillery platforms. Egoists can be healers and shapeshifters. Nomads are scouts, explorers, transportation experts, and time travelers. Telepaths are negotiators, spies, messengers and interrogators. And that's only using discipline powers. Psions can be anything.
Tempest Stormwind 10-14-06, 06:51 PM	sigh Seriously, if you're looking into stereotypes, you're already way off. Default flavor, thick on the stereotype? Any place where a sorcerer could fit in (which you seem to assume they can by virtue of Something, We Know Not What), a psion or wilder could. (Yes, there are more manifesters than just psions: using just WotC material, there's six types of psion (egoist, nomad, kineticist, shaper, seer, telepath), the wilder, the psychic warrior, the ardent (which has potentially more subdivisions than psions; depending on mantle choice ardents can feel like ANYTHING), the divine mind, and the lurk, not to mention the psychic rogue variant and the soulknife. You can't lump these together.) As for non-Greyhawk worlds (and seriously, who games in worlds THAT full of stereotype?), there's world-specific locales. You want a few great examples? Here. Dark Sun: Psionics are prevalent and widespread, particularly among adventurers (who often escaped from slave-pits using their talents). Arcane magic is outlawed (well, READING is outlawed...) but the world is led by sorcerer-kings of a sort. The gods have forsaken the place, but clerics exist (worshipping the cardinal elements) and druids are the major non-urban spiritual leaders. The closest to a traditional cleric is probably the Templar, a law-enforcement officer empowered by the dragon-kings. Eberron: Low-level magic is relatively common (even on the commercial level), high-level ANYTHING is rare. Psionics are more prevalent than most would admit -- there's an entire psionic continent (controlled by extraplanar nightmare-creatures), a psionic PC race, a secretive antagonistic organization that relies on psionics (also connected to the dreams), and the psionics that spawned from the aberration invasion ages ago (and currently exists in that world's underdark). However, due to the nature of psionics (which can be hidden easily), the fact that the evil organization is SECRET, the need for stealth on the part of the psionic race, and the fact that the psionic aberrants are underground, it's perfectly fine to ignore psionics altogether when running in Eberron, and having them run behind-the-scenes that the PCs can't detect. Faerun: There are numerous psionic colleges in Faerun, similar to fringe wizard schools. There's also a substantial element of psionics in the mind flayers, and a small tradition in the drow. Faerun, however, isn't accommodating of psionics, and generally treats them like scum in most of the books. But no one's ever claimed Faerun followed any form of logic. As for others? Come on, be creative. It's easier than you think -- I've seen people reflavor psionics (without changing the mechanics) to fit the bill for everything from dream magic to gnosis (similar to real-world occult colleges) to Naruto ninjutsu. Don't believe me? Check the Truenaming Psionics link in my sig. A better question would be "where CAN'T they fit?" I find it easier to fit psionics into new worlds than I do existing magic.
Seeker95 10-14-06, 07:40 PM	Wizards are in councils and they are rulers.Maybe in your world. Not in mine.
Lina_Inverse 10-14-06, 09:24 PM	Wizards are scientists. Fixxed. Psionics is just another flavor of magic. Wizards draw there magic from understanding the laws of magic. Clerics draw there magic from some force via faith. Druids draw there magic from nature. Sorcerers draw it from a magical bloodline. Psions draw magic from the deep dark portions of the mind.
kelvinaw273 10-14-06, 09:36 PM	The biggest problem with psionics is the name. It implies a scientific basis for the arts, not a mystical one. I devide magic into four catagories: Divine - sourced from deities (I don't allow non-deity clerics): Users are prophets (favoured souls) and priests (clerics, druids, shamen etc) Planar - sourced from outer planer energies: Users are Incarnum and warlocks. Arcane - divised by Dragons, sourced from manipulation of mystical energies: users are all normal arcane casters. Internal - drawn from within an individual, users are called Mystics: All the psionic classes.
Zevox 10-14-06, 09:42 PM	Faerun: There are numerous psionic colleges in Faerun, similar to fringe wizard schools. There's also a substantial element of psionics in the mind flayers, and a small tradition in the drow. Faerun, however, isn't accommodating of psionics, and generally treats them like scum in most of the books. But no one's ever claimed Faerun followed any form of logic. Eh, the reason they're not mentioned much in many books has to do with TSR wanting Psionics to be primarily a Dark Sun thing back in 2e, and thus downplaying them in the Realms. In point of fact, Faerūn once had a nation that was a Psiocracy: Jhaamdath, a nation founded by a Psychic Warrior and consisting of twelve cities, six of which were each a center of psionic learning focused around one of the six psionic disciplines. It was governed by psionicists, and of particular influence were the Psiarchs (Psion/Priests of the God of Psionics and Reason, Auppenser), who promoted learning of the Invisible Art (as psionics are called on Toril) and opposed slavery. Unfortunately after about 5,000 years of relative peace it became a militaristic nation that made the mistake of stepping on the toes of some Elves while trying to expand their nation, and about twenty years later the Elves decided to employ High Magic to rid themselves of the arrogant nation of human psionicists constantly trying to take thier lands. End result: Jhaamdath destroyed in giant tidal wave, and the single largest source of psionics in the continent (barring naturally psionic races like Mind Flayers and Duergar) is lost. Which leads to the scarcity of psionics overall in Faerūn today, little more than 1,500 years after its descruction. Though the long-sleeping Auppenser has been stirring of late, so its distinctly possible that Faerūn will soon see a rebirth of the Invisible Art in the more common races. So then, theres an example of Psionics in Faerūn for the OP :) . Zevox
Tempest Stormwind 10-15-06, 12:13 AM	The biggest problem with psionics is the name. It implies a scientific basis for the arts, not a mystical one.Just to clear things up: Modern "psychic" activity is pseudoscience at best. It makes no testable predictions, nor can it be disproven. The only reason the word "psionic" seems scientific is because the word's been used in sci-fi to describe magical effects -- in other words, it's just another flavor of magic. Inherently, there's nothing scientific about psionics. (As might be apparent from the thread I mentioned, though, I do agree the name is a big reason why people avoid it; that and stigma from earlier editions. Which has about as much bearing on this edition as complaints about THAC0 do. I have no quarrel with what you've said; just the terminology in that sentence -- and that's my scientific side speaking, not my inner gamer.) Zevox: I knew about Auppenser (hell, two of the PrCs and one of the organizations in Untapped Potential were based off of that! They were reflavored for OGL concerns, but were originally the Disciple and Fist of Auppenser), and the names do ring a bell (likely from Lost Empires of Faerun; I don't know about earlier). Still, thanks for the lesson -- it's helpful.