Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thecasualoblivion 04-12-07, 08:29 PM	All the stuff in Tome of Battle is based on melee combat. Archery got hosed. They really need to do something Tome of Battleish for archery now.
Tempest Stormwind 04-12-07, 08:34 PM	We've been working on Falling Star (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=771597), a ranged discipline, for a while -- and once this semester's over I'll get back on that. That said, archery numbers were already off-scale high. Adding maneuvers into the mix that deal a lot of damage or work with volleys will be KILLER, since archery was second only to UBERCHARGING in terms of damage output, but was far more consistent. (This is why Falling Star has a slightly different focus.)
Edymnion 04-12-07, 08:35 PM	All the stuff in Tome of Battle is based on melee combat. Archery got hosed. They really need to do something Tome of Battleish for archery now.No, 3.5 in general hosed archery.
Ranger REG 04-12-07, 09:31 PM	All the stuff in Tome of Battle is based on melee combat. Archery got hosed. They really need to do something Tome of Battleish for archery now. :uh-huh: This "well, duh!" moment is paid for by Dungeons & Dragons for Dummies book. If you're dumb enough to understand the rulebook, this book is for you. If you're dumb enough to understand the Dummies book, why are you even breathing? Disclaimer: The message of this post does not reflect the views of Wizards of the Coast, its staff, and its parent company, Hasbro.
MerlintheTuna 04-12-07, 09:52 PM	All the stuff in Tome of Battle is based on melee combat. Archery got hosed.Book of Nine Swords. Not sure why you expected any bow material to be in there, unless you're used to guns that shoot guns that shoot lightsabres or something. And yes, check out Falling Star. It is much happy happy.
Demon_Paladin 04-13-07, 12:44 AM	unless you're used to guns that shoot guns that shoot lightsabres or something. Don't let the charOp boards see this! :noway:
Optimator 04-13-07, 12:47 AM	I was under the impression that archery wasn't in too bad of shape to begin with. At all.
crimsonwolf 04-13-07, 01:41 AM	bah archery has so many nasty combos and tricks you can do .. rember your also trading off the abilty to simply be far away lol.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-13-07, 01:43 AM	Please. What's keeping you from making your own archery maneuvers, Oblivion? Post them here, we'll critique them (and by "we", I mean "other people who actually have the book").
Ranger REG 04-13-07, 02:20 AM	Book of Nine Swords. Not sure why you expected any bow material to be in there, unless you're used to guns that shoot guns that shoot lightsabres or something. :uh-huh: Are you attempting to connect "Swords" (which is on the title of said book) to guns??? :thinks:
3DJutsu 04-13-07, 02:46 AM	:uh-huh: Are you attempting to connect "Swords" (which is on the title of said book) to guns??? :thinks: Guns that shoot brilliant energy hideaway swords.
ShinoAburame 04-13-07, 02:49 AM	I've yet to see a fantasy game that didn't hose archery, look at Diablo. They claimed to make archery better and it still sucked. Exploding enemies do not justify archery, and how often do you see them? Only two games have made archery balanced. D&D and nethack (which is based on D&D) D&D makes melee and archery equal because of feats and damage. Cleave and power attack are the most common melee feats. Both are situational though, you need to be within ten feet of another foe to use cleave, and power attack reduces attack rating in favor of more damage. Archery feats generaly just bennefit you with little situational demand. Let's say someone has 18 strength and is wielding a greatsword, that's 2d6+4 damage, so an average of 11 damage. Let's say someone has 18 dexterity (though it doesn't effect damage) and is wielding a longbow so is dealing on average 4 damage. Yes, it looks like a clear advantage in the melee guy's part, almost three times the amount of damage! But when you take into consideration better feats for range, and the fact they can attack from afar. It gives them somewhat of an edge. Also, arrows can be laced with poison more easily then a sword or whatever. It's just more practical. You can also "snipe" and the opponent never has to know what hit him. Frankly I'd be more concerned about the blatant hosing of warriors against magehood. That magic over melee crap doesn't happen in nethack. Being a mage gets rid of some petty annoyances like boulders, but ultimately I'd take my chances with a warrior to avoid dieing so fast. D&D doesn't have that omineous threat level to take advantage of the mage's lower hit die. And don't get me started on divine casters. "Ohnoes I'm hit.. HEAL!"
Optimator 04-13-07, 03:31 AM	Did you play Diablo II?
Chimaera2000 04-13-07, 04:04 AM	Indeed.... in Diablo II, an Amazon with the Windforce bow (I believe Faith is now the front-runner these days) could easily out-damage most melee builds. Not only that, but she could wipe out entire screens' worth of enemies with Multishot and is immune to the Iron Maiden curse that so plagued melee fighters. This is all on Hell difficulty, of course.
Ranger REG 04-13-07, 04:09 AM	I didn't realize we're modeling Dungeons & Dragons after MMORPG. :uh-huh:
_Jayne_Cobb_ 04-13-07, 10:42 AM	I didn't realize we're modeling Dungeons & Dragons after MMORPG. :uh-huh: I didn't realize Diablo II counted as an MMORPG.
Ranger REG 04-14-07, 02:27 AM	I didn't realize Diablo II counted as an MMORPG. Okay, one "M" (MORPG). It's "multiplayer," just not "massive."
Optimator 04-14-07, 02:55 AM	OMARPG. Optional-Multiplayer Action/RPG