Are Drow an Evil Race? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are Drow an Evil Race? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Revenant07
01-05-08, 01:37 PM Are Drow an evil race? Or are they evil because they worship Lolth?
The_Shaman
01-05-08, 02:55 PM Usually yes, and partly. Few races outside of outsiders are bound to some alignment, mind you, it's just that evil drow are the overwhelming majority.

I'd say there's a slightly higher chance of encountering non-evil orcs than non-evil drow, you work it out from there.
Awesome_Dude
01-05-08, 03:07 PM They're a race of sociopaths. Worshiping any other god than Lolth is not an option for them. If you turn your back once, it's going to get stabbed five times before you turn back around. It's a brutal, almost insectoid society. It's eat or get eaten, stab or get stabbed.

Drow are about as intrinsically Evil as you can get without being a fiend.
Seeker95
01-05-08, 06:33 PM Are Drow an evil race?According to the Monster Manual, they are usually neutral evil.
Or are they evil because they worship Lolth?They worship Lolth because they are evil.
Those drow that are not evil do not worship Lolth.
Wight_Chocolate
01-05-08, 06:37 PM Is this going to be one of those "They're not evil even though their alignment is given as evil" threads, or are you just curious?
Tanica
01-05-08, 10:58 PM :evillaugh
Jaxgaret
01-05-08, 11:00 PM My suggestion is that you pick up one of the countless Drow supplements that are out there if you are really curious.
Revenant07
01-05-08, 11:18 PM Just curious. Thanks for the info! Mmmm, I don't think I want to spend 30 bucks just to figure out the question. :)
The_Shaman
01-06-08, 07:43 AM They worship Lolth because they are evil.
Those drow that are not evil do not worship Lolth.

Not necessarily. While most non-evil drow are ill-suited to worship the Spider Queen, she could accept CN clerics, and drow of different alignments could, due to tradition if nothing else, give her at least a lip service at times. As goddess of the drow and spiders, among other things, she has a significance beyond her alignment - just as many non-evil sailors sometimes utter a prayer to Umberlee or Talos, drow may sometimes say a prayer to Lolth if they're thinking of pulling a scheme against their rivals or want to be safe from monstrous spiders.
Naderion
01-06-08, 09:25 AM I'd say drow are evil, because they are raised evil. Biologically, they are simply elves, but they are not teached to be compasionate toward others and that doing others harm is wrong, as young surface elves are, but that the most important thing in life is to become powerful and that you have to use others and they will try to use you in return.
If you raise drow childrens with surface elves, they would have the same good tendencies as surface elves, and if you raise elves among drow, they would most likely become evil, if they would be accepted as equals.
CCS
01-06-08, 02:48 PM Are Drow an evil race? Or are they evil because they worship Lolth?

YES.

Drow are evil.
And one of the many ways that they continue to do evil is by worshiping Lolth.
And if Lolth was removed from the equation? They'd still be evil.
Fatalis_902
01-06-08, 03:05 PM Wasn't there a post somewhere on the boards that explained Drow? I don't have it in my sig, even though I probably should, but a link to that might help settle the question.
Salla
01-06-08, 04:10 PM Drow are a race; they tend to be evil because it's culturally ingrained into them from the moment they're old enough to understand speech, as is the worship of Lolth.

A drow who was raised in a different culture would not have this indoctrination, and would be no more inclined to be evil than anybody else. Drow are not 'inherently' evil like a demon or devil would be; there's no innate link or evil instincts involved. It's all upbringing.
Revenant07
01-06-08, 04:11 PM I'd say drow are evil, because they are raised evil. Biologically, they are simply elves, but they are not teached to be compasionate toward others and that doing others harm is wrong, as young surface elves are, but that the most important thing in life is to become powerful and that you have to use others and they will try to use you in return.
If you raise drow childrens with surface elves, they would have the same good tendencies as surface elves, and if you raise elves among drow, they would most likely become evil, if they would be accepted as equals.

That's what I was wondering. Is it nature or nurture?
Salla
01-06-08, 06:05 PM That's what I was wondering. Is it nature or nurture?

It's nurture. If a creature's typeline doesn't have an alignment descriptor on it (like demons have Evil there, Angels have Good, etc.), then the creature has no ties by nature/innate connections to a particular behavior or personality. Drow are not an evil race, but their predominant culture is evil.

And heck, even creatures WITH an alignment descriptor in their type line can change alignments, so even that isn't set in stone.
Awesome_Dude
01-06-08, 08:45 PM It's nurture. If a creature's typeline doesn't have an alignment descriptor on it (like demons have Evil there, Angels have Good, etc.), then the creature has no ties by nature/innate connections to a particular behavior or personality. Drow are not an evil race, but their predominant culture is evil.

And heck, even creatures WITH an alignment descriptor in their type line can change alignments, so even that isn't set in stone.
Page 15 of Drow of the Underdark disapproves of your absolute viewpoint. Drow may very well be genetically disposed towards violence. It hasn't been tested because stealing a Drow child isn't likely to make you popular, except maybe as a target for a violent and torturous death.
Seeker95
01-06-08, 10:34 PM Page 15 of Drow of the Underdark disapproves of your absolute viewpoint.Although it may disapprove, it does not disprove.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
01-06-08, 11:17 PM Page 15 of Drow of the Underdark disapproves of your absolute viewpoint. Drow may very well be genetically disposed towards violence. It hasn't been tested because stealing a Drow child isn't likely to make you popular, except maybe as a target for a violent and torturous death.

unless of course the drow's parents attacked you and you killed them.
ArgulFraster
01-07-08, 12:23 AM Yeah, Drow are evil.

And there was an excellent thread on the Mature Board about how the Drow are going to shoot themselves in the collective foot because of it.
Belkar
01-07-08, 12:57 PM Which campaign setting?

Which DM?

;)

You mean "general", "core", "Greyhawk" conceptions? The MM lists them as usually evil. Not "always". ;)

We're not talking about dragons or outsiders - so no "always".

Are Drow an evil race?
"Usually."
Or are they evil because they worship Lolth?
Maybe.

But is it biological? Don't think so. Just because it doesn't say "always."

Now... enter Eberron... and not only is alignment pretty much thrown out the window in general - but they don't even worship Lolth (who doesn't exist). :D And none of them... none... duel-wield scimitars while questing for inner-peace and acceptance. :P
Awesome_Dude
01-07-08, 02:27 PM Although it may disapprove, it does not disprove.
Although it doesn't disprove, it ... d- ... di-?

:raincloud

Okay, all failed attempts at a counter-pun aside, the book does note that what Salla is saying is not the consensus. The centuries (or is it millenia?) of Demonic influence and violence has most likely made villainy a part of their genetic heritage.
Zombie_Babies
01-07-08, 04:17 PM The setting does matter as well. FR Drow even have another evil Drow god to worship (name escapes me) besides Lloth. There are a fair number of good Drow as well. They tend to worship Ellistrae (sp?). IIRC: In FR the Drow were cursed to the Underdark because of Llolth's betrayal of Corellon. It could be said that this plays some small part in their predilection towards evil. The goody-two-shoes elves still have the surface and Drow hate them for that. Vhaerun (ha! remembered it! for males, at least) has followers on the surface who are actively trying to regain their place there (through violence and subterfuge) and who oppose Lloth. Ellistrae's followers would also like to rejoin the surface world but in a peaceful way. So the setting makes a difference in the argument. In FR the past (and the surface world) has a lot to do with the present behavior of the Drow.
Luis_Carlos
01-07-08, 04:56 PM In my homebrew campaing they are half and half.....

Their society are in a civil war between the followers of Spider Queen Rex-Arachn (Lolth) and the new convert to Cruxianism (a good monotheist religion). The weak point of Rexarachn faction is the great decline by continual rivalry of evil factions, and the cruxians drows now are still minority, but a lot more cooperative (and they have more children).
Legdiwena
01-07-08, 05:00 PM In FR.

Collectively, the drow deities are known as the Dark Seldarine.[5]

* Eilistraee (I): Goddess of song, beauty, dance, swordwork, hunting, moonlight
* Kiaransalee (D): Goddess of undead, vengeance. Deceased 1377 DR. Name Erased and Forgotten
* Ghaunadaur (L):God of oozes, slimes, jellies, outcasts, ropers, rebels
* Lolth (formerly named Araushnee) (I): Goddess of spiders, evil, darkness, chaos, assassins, drow
* Selvetarm (L): God of drow warriors. Deceased 1375 DR
* Vhaeraun (L): God of thievery, drow males, evil activity on the surface. Deceased 1375 DR. Killed by Eilistraee

Eilistraee being the only non-evil one in the lot.
Drow raised on the surface in a community that serves Eilistraee would be no more evil than the average human.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Revenant07 01-05-08, 01:37 PM	Are Drow an evil race? Or are they evil because they worship Lolth?
The_Shaman 01-05-08, 02:55 PM	Usually yes, and partly. Few races outside of outsiders are bound to some alignment, mind you, it's just that evil drow are the overwhelming majority. I'd say there's a slightly higher chance of encountering non-evil orcs than non-evil drow, you work it out from there.
Awesome_Dude 01-05-08, 03:07 PM	They're a race of sociopaths. Worshiping any other god than Lolth is not an option for them. If you turn your back once, it's going to get stabbed five times before you turn back around. It's a brutal, almost insectoid society. It's eat or get eaten, stab or get stabbed. Drow are about as intrinsically Evil as you can get without being a fiend.
Seeker95 01-05-08, 06:33 PM	Are Drow an evil race?According to the Monster Manual, they are usually neutral evil. Or are they evil because they worship Lolth?They worship Lolth because they are evil. Those drow that are not evil do not worship Lolth.
Wight_Chocolate 01-05-08, 06:37 PM	Is this going to be one of those "They're not evil even though their alignment is given as evil" threads, or are you just curious?
Tanica 01-05-08, 10:58 PM	:evillaugh
Jaxgaret 01-05-08, 11:00 PM	My suggestion is that you pick up one of the countless Drow supplements that are out there if you are really curious.
Revenant07 01-05-08, 11:18 PM	Just curious. Thanks for the info! Mmmm, I don't think I want to spend 30 bucks just to figure out the question. :)
The_Shaman 01-06-08, 07:43 AM	They worship Lolth because they are evil. Those drow that are not evil do not worship Lolth. Not necessarily. While most non-evil drow are ill-suited to worship the Spider Queen, she could accept CN clerics, and drow of different alignments could, due to tradition if nothing else, give her at least a lip service at times. As goddess of the drow and spiders, among other things, she has a significance beyond her alignment - just as many non-evil sailors sometimes utter a prayer to Umberlee or Talos, drow may sometimes say a prayer to Lolth if they're thinking of pulling a scheme against their rivals or want to be safe from monstrous spiders.
Naderion 01-06-08, 09:25 AM	I'd say drow are evil, because they are raised evil. Biologically, they are simply elves, but they are not teached to be compasionate toward others and that doing others harm is wrong, as young surface elves are, but that the most important thing in life is to become powerful and that you have to use others and they will try to use you in return. If you raise drow childrens with surface elves, they would have the same good tendencies as surface elves, and if you raise elves among drow, they would most likely become evil, if they would be accepted as equals.
CCS 01-06-08, 02:48 PM	Are Drow an evil race? Or are they evil because they worship Lolth? YES. Drow are evil. And one of the many ways that they continue to do evil is by worshiping Lolth. And if Lolth was removed from the equation? They'd still be evil.
Fatalis_902 01-06-08, 03:05 PM	Wasn't there a post somewhere on the boards that explained Drow? I don't have it in my sig, even though I probably should, but a link to that might help settle the question.
Salla 01-06-08, 04:10 PM	Drow are a race; they tend to be evil because it's culturally ingrained into them from the moment they're old enough to understand speech, as is the worship of Lolth. A drow who was raised in a different culture would not have this indoctrination, and would be no more inclined to be evil than anybody else. Drow are not 'inherently' evil like a demon or devil would be; there's no innate link or evil instincts involved. It's all upbringing.
Revenant07 01-06-08, 04:11 PM	I'd say drow are evil, because they are raised evil. Biologically, they are simply elves, but they are not teached to be compasionate toward others and that doing others harm is wrong, as young surface elves are, but that the most important thing in life is to become powerful and that you have to use others and they will try to use you in return. If you raise drow childrens with surface elves, they would have the same good tendencies as surface elves, and if you raise elves among drow, they would most likely become evil, if they would be accepted as equals. That's what I was wondering. Is it nature or nurture?
Salla 01-06-08, 06:05 PM	That's what I was wondering. Is it nature or nurture? It's nurture. If a creature's typeline doesn't have an alignment descriptor on it (like demons have Evil there, Angels have Good, etc.), then the creature has no ties by nature/innate connections to a particular behavior or personality. Drow are not an evil race, but their predominant culture is evil. And heck, even creatures WITH an alignment descriptor in their type line can change alignments, so even that isn't set in stone.
Awesome_Dude 01-06-08, 08:45 PM	It's nurture. If a creature's typeline doesn't have an alignment descriptor on it (like demons have Evil there, Angels have Good, etc.), then the creature has no ties by nature/innate connections to a particular behavior or personality. Drow are not an evil race, but their predominant culture is evil. And heck, even creatures WITH an alignment descriptor in their type line can change alignments, so even that isn't set in stone. Page 15 of Drow of the Underdark disapproves of your absolute viewpoint. Drow may very well be genetically disposed towards violence. It hasn't been tested because stealing a Drow child isn't likely to make you popular, except maybe as a target for a violent and torturous death.
Seeker95 01-06-08, 10:34 PM	Page 15 of Drow of the Underdark disapproves of your absolute viewpoint.Although it may disapprove, it does not disprove.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 01-06-08, 11:17 PM	Page 15 of Drow of the Underdark disapproves of your absolute viewpoint. Drow may very well be genetically disposed towards violence. It hasn't been tested because stealing a Drow child isn't likely to make you popular, except maybe as a target for a violent and torturous death. unless of course the drow's parents attacked you and you killed them.
ArgulFraster 01-07-08, 12:23 AM	Yeah, Drow are evil. And there was an excellent thread on the Mature Board about how the Drow are going to shoot themselves in the collective foot because of it.
Belkar 01-07-08, 12:57 PM	Which campaign setting? Which DM? ;) You mean "general", "core", "Greyhawk" conceptions? The MM lists them as usually evil. Not "always". ;) We're not talking about dragons or outsiders - so no "always". Are Drow an evil race? "Usually." Or are they evil because they worship Lolth? Maybe. But is it biological? Don't think so. Just because it doesn't say "always." Now... enter Eberron... and not only is alignment pretty much thrown out the window in general - but they don't even worship Lolth (who doesn't exist). :D And none of them... none... duel-wield scimitars while questing for inner-peace and acceptance. :P
Awesome_Dude 01-07-08, 02:27 PM	Although it may disapprove, it does not disprove. Although it doesn't disprove, it ... d- ... di-? :raincloud Okay, all failed attempts at a counter-pun aside, the book does note that what Salla is saying is not the consensus. The centuries (or is it millenia?) of Demonic influence and violence has most likely made villainy a part of their genetic heritage.
Zombie_Babies 01-07-08, 04:17 PM	The setting does matter as well. FR Drow even have another evil Drow god to worship (name escapes me) besides Lloth. There are a fair number of good Drow as well. They tend to worship Ellistrae (sp?). IIRC: In FR the Drow were cursed to the Underdark because of Llolth's betrayal of Corellon. It could be said that this plays some small part in their predilection towards evil. The goody-two-shoes elves still have the surface and Drow hate them for that. Vhaerun (ha! remembered it! for males, at least) has followers on the surface who are actively trying to regain their place there (through violence and subterfuge) and who oppose Lloth. Ellistrae's followers would also like to rejoin the surface world but in a peaceful way. So the setting makes a difference in the argument. In FR the past (and the surface world) has a lot to do with the present behavior of the Drow.
Luis_Carlos 01-07-08, 04:56 PM	In my homebrew campaing they are half and half..... Their society are in a civil war between the followers of Spider Queen Rex-Arachn (Lolth) and the new convert to Cruxianism (a good monotheist religion). The weak point of Rexarachn faction is the great decline by continual rivalry of evil factions, and the cruxians drows now are still minority, but a lot more cooperative (and they have more children).
Legdiwena 01-07-08, 05:00 PM	In FR. Collectively, the drow deities are known as the Dark Seldarine.[5] * Eilistraee (I): Goddess of song, beauty, dance, swordwork, hunting, moonlight * Kiaransalee (D): Goddess of undead, vengeance. Deceased 1377 DR. Name Erased and Forgotten * Ghaunadaur (L):God of oozes, slimes, jellies, outcasts, ropers, rebels * Lolth (formerly named Araushnee) (I): Goddess of spiders, evil, darkness, chaos, assassins, drow * Selvetarm (L): God of drow warriors. Deceased 1375 DR * Vhaeraun (L): God of thievery, drow males, evil activity on the surface. Deceased 1375 DR. Killed by Eilistraee Eilistraee being the only non-evil one in the lot. Drow raised on the surface in a community that serves Eilistraee would be no more evil than the average human.