Are Dungeon and Dragon magazines worth subscribing to? Any others? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are Dungeon and Dragon magazines worth subscribing to? Any others? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheWhiteHand
11-05-04, 12:11 PM Good Morning!

As I mentioned before, I have started playing the D&D miniatures game, and through that have a desire to return to playing the RPG. I have a ton of books I have already picked up, and so am way behind in reading. I was wondering if either the Dungeon or Dragon magazines were worth adding to the reading list. Are the 'nice to haves' or 'really great resources' for the game? Anything worth picking up back issues for or subscribing?

Thanks for your help!

Sincerely,
Rob Harris
kakitadaiymo@yahoo.com
SoulLord
11-05-04, 12:27 PM I would go with Nice to have

If you are the DM you could take many of the elements of the dragon or dungon and adapt it to your game.
CzarGarrett
11-05-04, 12:32 PM Dungeon: DM based periodical with adventures.

Dragon: DM and Player based periodical with new races, PrCs, feats, variants, etc.

If you're just going to be playing, I suggest picking up one or two Dragons just to give them a look through and see how well you like it. Also, check with the DM you'll be playing with to make sure he/she/it will allow some of the stuff in.

If you like the stuff and the DM is cool with it being in, then I'd get the subscription.
Martryn
11-05-04, 03:09 PM Dungeon magazine is a must have for me, because I am as lazy as sin as a DM. Being able to open up the mag and find an adventure to throw at the PC's with little or no adjustment... awesome. And it now has cool NPC's to use, maps of mystery to plug in when the PC's get to a town you haven't developed completely yet or a dungeon that you're winging on the fly. I simply love the mag.
primemover003
11-05-04, 03:11 PM With the recent format changes in dungeon and dragon I have to say that as a DM Dungeon is AWESOME...

I'm not quite sure Dragon has improved like it's sister mag did... jury is still out in the courtroom in my head on that one.
Phrennzy
11-05-04, 03:37 PM IMO Dragon blows. It has gone from bad to worse in a short time. I have cancelled my subscription after 10 years of subscribing because it sucks. The articles are useless (Knight Vs Samurai).

Dungeon, on the other hand, is great. The adventure path series totally rocks. Over ten issues it takes PCs from 1st to 20th. Very well done and helpful to me because I am very busy and it's hard to create a full fledged adventure from the ground up.
DaemeonBlack
11-05-04, 04:05 PM I agree with Phrennzy that the Knight Vs Samurai was just a boring exercise in reading a dry, stale review of historical fighting that failed to even answer the lead question, who would win? It was abyssmal.

Where I do not agree in the fact that I think Dragon is a great resource for both players and DM's alike. If you only take one thing from one issue I feel it is worth it to me for the price, I have bought full hardbacks I have gotten less from than some issues of Dragon. I suggest, as has been mentioned, get your self 2 issues of Dragon, read them cover to cover. If you got something useful out of them then consider a subscription, if not then dont.

As for Dungeon, it is GREAT for a DM, cool venues, NPC's, BBEG's, and new items/monsters/spells sometimes. The maps of mystery are great (or where, dont remember them from the last couple of issues now that you mention it???) and the other features are good as well, get a subscription if you DM, worth the price.
BruteForce
11-05-04, 04:20 PM I'm going to agree with everyone else here; if you're a DM with any responsibilities outside of DMing (like school, a job, a family, etc.), Dungeon is almost a must-have. And it's gotten much better recently. But it's pretty much useless if you're not a DM.

Dragon, on the other hand... it might be more useful to me if my DM (when that person isn't me, anyway) allowed the material in his game, but I've found it less and less useful with just about every I've picked up over the last year or so. It's not bad or anything, but not particularly good, either. There's some good stuff (Ecology articles and the occasional decent prestige class), but it's just not something I'm going to spend money for on a regular basis.
malykoth
11-05-04, 04:31 PM So it's not just me. I still like Dragon, but I thought they were becoming less interesting/useful with each issue...especially with the recent format change. I find that about half the Class Acts articles border on insulting my intelligence with the "obviousness" of there advice...kind of like those horrible "Character Class" articles on this site. Glad to know I'm not the only disappointed reader.
qstor
11-05-04, 04:31 PM Dragon has a few articles on the D&D minis game so you might get that if you play the minis game.

Dragon is pretty good, but as others have pointed out its been better. If you don't DM a lot then stick to Dragon. I'd buy a few issues at your gaming store and see if you like it.

Mike
Martryn
11-05-04, 06:01 PM For me, Dragon is an issue to issue thing. I haven't picked up a copy in a while, but in the past they had theme issues, like necromancers, rogues, and the wilderness. I really liked the wilderness issue because of the cool Prairie Runner prestige class for halflings, but usually you'll be lucky to find something you really like.

Dungeon is AWESOME. They have these random generators and stuff now. Like the first new issue had NPC's that PC's can sell magic items to, and some plot hooks for making some really cool adventures with those NPC's. The adventure path rocks, and even though I haven't used the adventures yet, I have drawn from them all the time (am I the only one who thought that the test of the smoking eye was the coolest thing to happen to DnD for a while).
And Wil Wheaton has an article. That little Crusher has grown up (Hell, he's older than I am). Get a subscription to Dungeon if you are to ever DM. If not, tell your DM to get a subscription. It's worth it by far.
Azual
11-06-04, 12:48 PM I agree with Phrennzy that the Knight Vs Samurai was just a boring exercise in reading a dry, stale review of historical fighting that failed to even answer the lead question, who would win?

Yes we all know the Samurai would win.
see Rurouni Kenshin or Battojitsu, {saracsm} Ah yes i can see a knight beating THAT {/sarcasm}
Phrennzy
11-06-04, 03:14 PM And that was the big crap ending of the crap article - there was no decision. The writer said you couldn't really say who would win.

What the hell?

Pick a side, guy, jeez.

Besides, we all know it'd be the gunfighter.
ramdeath
11-06-04, 03:29 PM And that was the big crap ending of the crap article - there was no decision. The writer said you couldn't really say who would win.

What the hell?

Pick a side, guy, jeez.

Besides, we all know it'd be the gunfighter.

They couldn't pick a side because corporate is affraid to alienate either side.

Dungeon isn't as good as they make it out. Sure if you're lazy and un-imaginative it's great help. I'm homebrew and like to do things myself. I bought a few issues and have never used anything out of Dungeon.
Azual
11-06-04, 03:55 PM hey hey, Samurai would win.
Lancelot (Greatest night int he world) take away his mojo and hes TOAST
Rurouni Kenshin (Koolest Samurai in the KNOWN UNIVERSE :ayyyy!: ) one DUDE TOOK AWAY THE FEELING IN HIS LEFT ARM AND KENSHIN STILL BEaT HIM. he shot the hilt out of his sheath so quickly it knocked him out in ONE HIT.
Besides KEnshin proved he could block bullet paths witht he hile t of his sword in the battle versus Sanosuke so no dice.
;)
ramdeath
11-06-04, 04:03 PM hey hey, Samurai would win.
Lancelot (Greatest night int he world) take away his mojo and hes TOAST
Rurouni Kenshin (Koolest Samurai in the KNOWN UNIVERSE :ayyyy!: ) one DUDE TOOK AWAY THE FEELING IN HIS LEFT ARM AND KENSHIN STILL BEaT HIM. he shot the hilt out of his sheath so quickly it knocked him out in ONE HIT.
Besides KEnshin proved he could block bullet paths witht he hile t of his sword in the battle versus Sanosuke so no dice.
;)

Yeah but real people aren't that cool :P
Azual
11-06-04, 04:17 PM Yeah but real people aren't that cool :P

Aww cmon, i used lancelot!
Hes like totally as false as Merlin being a Wizard or Morgan Le Fay Beong an actualy Fairy.
Please if were going ot use the most legendary Knight Versus the Mother Legendary Samurai... KOOL
:D
ramdeath
11-06-04, 04:20 PM Aww cmon, i used lancelot!
Hes like totally as false as Merlin being a Wizard or Morgan Le Fay Beong an actualy Fairy.
Please if were going ot use the most legendary Knight Versus the Mother Legendary Samurai... KOOL
:D

Ok but think of it this way. I've never even Remotely heard of that Uber Samurai :P

I could ignorantly say that most people know Lancelot rather than the samurai dude and I'd probably be right.

Brave Sir Robin is cooler :p
No that guy that always says "tis but a scratch"
ignore that
Edymnion
11-06-04, 07:21 PM My opinion is no, they are not worth subscribing to.
While Dragon ocassionally has something I want (the two I can think of are the Kaiju template and the official workup for the Chocobo), it more often than not, IMO, has a bunch of stuff that simply was not well thought out. Example here for me would be half-undead templates. I can almost see the use of a half-vampire template for all the people that still think Blade is cool (even though it makes NO sense at all in a D&D setting). Yet Dragon just tossed out templates for half-zombies and half-skeletons and even half-ghosts.

I typically find the articles to not even be worth reading. I disagree with a lot of the opinions Dragon presents as facts (like the Sage Rulings). The only time I get one is when I've heard there is one thing in it that I actually want to have. And trust me, those are few and far between.

I suppose they could be useful for extremely busy DMs that don't have time to come up with anything on their own (but come on, I come up with some of my best ideas while trying to go to sleep at night, or when I'm in my car driving somewhere, or even out mowing the grass), but they're not exactly of awe inspiring quality.

My advice for you, don't subscribe, at least not immediantly. Buy a few issues off the rack and see if you like them. If you make it to the third or fourth issue and still can't wait to see what comes out next, then go ahead and subscribe. If you don't, well, you just saved yourself a lot of money by checking it out first.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheWhiteHand 11-05-04, 12:11 PM	Good Morning! As I mentioned before, I have started playing the D&D miniatures game, and through that have a desire to return to playing the RPG. I have a ton of books I have already picked up, and so am way behind in reading. I was wondering if either the Dungeon or Dragon magazines were worth adding to the reading list. Are the 'nice to haves' or 'really great resources' for the game? Anything worth picking up back issues for or subscribing? Thanks for your help! Sincerely, Rob Harris kakitadaiymo@yahoo.com
SoulLord 11-05-04, 12:27 PM	I would go with Nice to have If you are the DM you could take many of the elements of the dragon or dungon and adapt it to your game.
CzarGarrett 11-05-04, 12:32 PM	Dungeon: DM based periodical with adventures. Dragon: DM and Player based periodical with new races, PrCs, feats, variants, etc. If you're just going to be playing, I suggest picking up one or two Dragons just to give them a look through and see how well you like it. Also, check with the DM you'll be playing with to make sure he/she/it will allow some of the stuff in. If you like the stuff and the DM is cool with it being in, then I'd get the subscription.
Martryn 11-05-04, 03:09 PM	Dungeon magazine is a must have for me, because I am as lazy as sin as a DM. Being able to open up the mag and find an adventure to throw at the PC's with little or no adjustment... awesome. And it now has cool NPC's to use, maps of mystery to plug in when the PC's get to a town you haven't developed completely yet or a dungeon that you're winging on the fly. I simply love the mag.
primemover003 11-05-04, 03:11 PM	With the recent format changes in dungeon and dragon I have to say that as a DM Dungeon is AWESOME... I'm not quite sure Dragon has improved like it's sister mag did... jury is still out in the courtroom in my head on that one.
Phrennzy 11-05-04, 03:37 PM	IMO Dragon blows. It has gone from bad to worse in a short time. I have cancelled my subscription after 10 years of subscribing because it sucks. The articles are useless (Knight Vs Samurai). Dungeon, on the other hand, is great. The adventure path series totally rocks. Over ten issues it takes PCs from 1st to 20th. Very well done and helpful to me because I am very busy and it's hard to create a full fledged adventure from the ground up.
DaemeonBlack 11-05-04, 04:05 PM	I agree with Phrennzy that the Knight Vs Samurai was just a boring exercise in reading a dry, stale review of historical fighting that failed to even answer the lead question, who would win? It was abyssmal. Where I do not agree in the fact that I think Dragon is a great resource for both players and DM's alike. If you only take one thing from one issue I feel it is worth it to me for the price, I have bought full hardbacks I have gotten less from than some issues of Dragon. I suggest, as has been mentioned, get your self 2 issues of Dragon, read them cover to cover. If you got something useful out of them then consider a subscription, if not then dont. As for Dungeon, it is GREAT for a DM, cool venues, NPC's, BBEG's, and new items/monsters/spells sometimes. The maps of mystery are great (or where, dont remember them from the last couple of issues now that you mention it???) and the other features are good as well, get a subscription if you DM, worth the price.
BruteForce 11-05-04, 04:20 PM	I'm going to agree with everyone else here; if you're a DM with any responsibilities outside of DMing (like school, a job, a family, etc.), Dungeon is almost a must-have. And it's gotten much better recently. But it's pretty much useless if you're not a DM. Dragon, on the other hand... it might be more useful to me if my DM (when that person isn't me, anyway) allowed the material in his game, but I've found it less and less useful with just about every I've picked up over the last year or so. It's not bad or anything, but not particularly good, either. There's some good stuff (Ecology articles and the occasional decent prestige class), but it's just not something I'm going to spend money for on a regular basis.
malykoth 11-05-04, 04:31 PM	So it's not just me. I still like Dragon, but I thought they were becoming less interesting/useful with each issue...especially with the recent format change. I find that about half the Class Acts articles border on insulting my intelligence with the "obviousness" of there advice...kind of like those horrible "Character Class" articles on this site. Glad to know I'm not the only disappointed reader.
qstor 11-05-04, 04:31 PM	Dragon has a few articles on the D&D minis game so you might get that if you play the minis game. Dragon is pretty good, but as others have pointed out its been better. If you don't DM a lot then stick to Dragon. I'd buy a few issues at your gaming store and see if you like it. Mike
Martryn 11-05-04, 06:01 PM	For me, Dragon is an issue to issue thing. I haven't picked up a copy in a while, but in the past they had theme issues, like necromancers, rogues, and the wilderness. I really liked the wilderness issue because of the cool Prairie Runner prestige class for halflings, but usually you'll be lucky to find something you really like. Dungeon is AWESOME. They have these random generators and stuff now. Like the first new issue had NPC's that PC's can sell magic items to, and some plot hooks for making some really cool adventures with those NPC's. The adventure path rocks, and even though I haven't used the adventures yet, I have drawn from them all the time (am I the only one who thought that the test of the smoking eye was the coolest thing to happen to DnD for a while). And Wil Wheaton has an article. That little Crusher has grown up (Hell, he's older than I am). Get a subscription to Dungeon if you are to ever DM. If not, tell your DM to get a subscription. It's worth it by far.
Azual 11-06-04, 12:48 PM	I agree with Phrennzy that the Knight Vs Samurai was just a boring exercise in reading a dry, stale review of historical fighting that failed to even answer the lead question, who would win? Yes we all know the Samurai would win. see Rurouni Kenshin or Battojitsu, {saracsm} Ah yes i can see a knight beating THAT {/sarcasm}
Phrennzy 11-06-04, 03:14 PM	And that was the big crap ending of the crap article - there was no decision. The writer said you couldn't really say who would win. What the hell? Pick a side, guy, jeez. Besides, we all know it'd be the gunfighter.
ramdeath 11-06-04, 03:29 PM	And that was the big crap ending of the crap article - there was no decision. The writer said you couldn't really say who would win. What the hell? Pick a side, guy, jeez. Besides, we all know it'd be the gunfighter. They couldn't pick a side because corporate is affraid to alienate either side. Dungeon isn't as good as they make it out. Sure if you're lazy and un-imaginative it's great help. I'm homebrew and like to do things myself. I bought a few issues and have never used anything out of Dungeon.
Azual 11-06-04, 03:55 PM	hey hey, Samurai would win. Lancelot (Greatest night int he world) take away his mojo and hes TOAST Rurouni Kenshin (Koolest Samurai in the KNOWN UNIVERSE :ayyyy!: ) one DUDE TOOK AWAY THE FEELING IN HIS LEFT ARM AND KENSHIN STILL BEaT HIM. he shot the hilt out of his sheath so quickly it knocked him out in ONE HIT. Besides KEnshin proved he could block bullet paths witht he hile t of his sword in the battle versus Sanosuke so no dice. ;)
ramdeath 11-06-04, 04:03 PM	hey hey, Samurai would win. Lancelot (Greatest night int he world) take away his mojo and hes TOAST Rurouni Kenshin (Koolest Samurai in the KNOWN UNIVERSE :ayyyy!: ) one DUDE TOOK AWAY THE FEELING IN HIS LEFT ARM AND KENSHIN STILL BEaT HIM. he shot the hilt out of his sheath so quickly it knocked him out in ONE HIT. Besides KEnshin proved he could block bullet paths witht he hile t of his sword in the battle versus Sanosuke so no dice. ;) Yeah but real people aren't that cool :P
Azual 11-06-04, 04:17 PM	Yeah but real people aren't that cool :P Aww cmon, i used lancelot! Hes like totally as false as Merlin being a Wizard or Morgan Le Fay Beong an actualy Fairy. Please if were going ot use the most legendary Knight Versus the Mother Legendary Samurai... KOOL :D
ramdeath 11-06-04, 04:20 PM	Aww cmon, i used lancelot! Hes like totally as false as Merlin being a Wizard or Morgan Le Fay Beong an actualy Fairy. Please if were going ot use the most legendary Knight Versus the Mother Legendary Samurai... KOOL :D Ok but think of it this way. I've never even Remotely heard of that Uber Samurai :P I could ignorantly say that most people know Lancelot rather than the samurai dude and I'd probably be right. Brave Sir Robin is cooler :p No that guy that always says "tis but a scratch" ignore that
Edymnion 11-06-04, 07:21 PM	My opinion is no, they are not worth subscribing to. While Dragon ocassionally has something I want (the two I can think of are the Kaiju template and the official workup for the Chocobo), it more often than not, IMO, has a bunch of stuff that simply was not well thought out. Example here for me would be half-undead templates. I can almost see the use of a half-vampire template for all the people that still think Blade is cool (even though it makes NO sense at all in a D&D setting). Yet Dragon just tossed out templates for half-zombies and half-skeletons and even half-ghosts. I typically find the articles to not even be worth reading. I disagree with a lot of the opinions Dragon presents as facts (like the Sage Rulings). The only time I get one is when I've heard there is one thing in it that I actually want to have. And trust me, those are few and far between. I suppose they could be useful for extremely busy DMs that don't have time to come up with anything on their own (but come on, I come up with some of my best ideas while trying to go to sleep at night, or when I'm in my car driving somewhere, or even out mowing the grass), but they're not exactly of awe inspiring quality. My advice for you, don't subscribe, at least not immediantly. Buy a few issues off the rack and see if you like them. If you make it to the third or fourth issue and still can't wait to see what comes out next, then go ahead and subscribe. If you don't, well, you just saved yourself a lot of money by checking it out first.