| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| ferretferret09-13-06, 10:15 PM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there books |
| Argaud09-13-06, 10:18 PM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there books It is you :) WotC keeps publishing both crap and gold in fairly equal measures, really. |
| Kazeofwinds09-13-06, 10:21 PM | I think tome of battle and phb2 are some of the best books they've printed in ages, personaly. |
| EntropicShadow09-13-06, 10:30 PM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there books Down hill? Over the last 8 months or so Wizards has published something I've wanted nearly every month. Before that I went nearly a year without wanting any of their books. I would say that is just the opposite of down hill. |
| Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer09-13-06, 10:45 PM | No. They're getting better overall. Yes, each book isn't perfect and has some bad stuff. But, overall things are looking good. My main Complaint is the ridiculous amount of repeat Books, We have Draconomicon, Races of the Dragon, and Dragon Magic, as well as Dragons of Faerun. As well as the Dragon Shaman from PHB2. Repetitive even for year of the Dragon. |
| narukagami09-13-06, 10:55 PM | I'm of the school that they're going downhill. But its more a personal opinion than anything. In the last 3 years there have been less than ten books I've even had a remote interest in buying. What I think they need to do is stop with this constantly needed errata BS. A mistake here or there is ok, its human to make mistakes. But not pages of nessicary errata just to make something playable. They're adopting the software industry's "release half done, patch later" attitude that DOESN'T WORK with books! Maybe if they didn't have monthly deadlines the books they write will be far, far better than something rushed out to the market to meet a deadline. |
| Arivia09-13-06, 11:51 PM | I'm of the school that they're going downhill. But its more a personal opinion than anything. In the last 3 years there have been less than ten books I've even had a remote interest in buying. What I think they need to do is stop with this constantly needed errata BS. A mistake here or there is ok, its human to make mistakes. But not pages of nessicary errata just to make something playable. They're adopting the software industry's "release half done, patch later" attitude that DOESN'T WORK with books! Maybe if they didn't have monthly deadlines the books they write will be far, far better than something rushed out to the market to meet a deadline. Welcome to the roleplaying games industry. Would you like a complementary copy of the Dungeons and Dragons box set to get you started, with the errata pages from The Dragon included? |
| SmokeJaguar09-14-06, 12:02 AM | I think it's mixed. I really wasn't a fan of Hordes of the Abyss, but I found Complete Adventurer to be a really cool book with some great full page illustrations (Shadowbane Inquisitor picture was super-neat. H.R Giger meets King Arthur, sort of). The Eberron stuff is a bit hit and miss. Lots of repetition, but I guess that's par for the course when it's a campaign setting. One thing that I'll agree with is that the monthly book release thing is a bit painful. What it comes down to is that instead of waiting 4 months for the book I want to come out, I wait four months (without buying anything) and then get a book that's close to what I wanted. |
| malisteen09-14-06, 12:03 AM | Welcome to the roleplaying games industry. Would you like a complementary copy of the Dungeons and Dragons box set to get you started, with the errata pages from The Dragon included? Only if the errata comes packaged with enough minis to actually run the encounters in the box. Overall, though, I like recent stuff. The poor editing is a serious problem, but the overall content of books like ToB & PHBII is tremendous, right up there with the core books and XPH. |
| journeyman77709-14-06, 05:04 AM | Yeah, they could use some more proofreading, but the fact that there has been a book I absolutely want coming out every month for the last several months is fairly impressive. Best of all, much of the new materal actually seems balanced. (At the very least, I've yet to see op challenge find a way to horribly abuse much of the new material.) |
| PolasKasDorion09-14-06, 09:23 AM | For me.. it's more of a wave pattern. Sure there are some books I couldn't care less for, but there are also a lot of books lately that I love (PHBII, DMGII, HoH). I've actually book one book almost every month this past year. I think they're doing a great job of putting a variety of books out there to cover everyone's needs. And by needs I mean addiction of course. Sure, we all wish that they would edit the books before they shipped them out. In fact... umm.. I'll do it. How much does that pay? Sign me up. |
| Chicharron09-14-06, 11:15 AM | The quality of the books themselves is actually better than it's ever been. The focus however is another matter. The repetitive nature of the content is what steers some people away IMO. All the Dragon Books, MM IV, and now all these "new" Complete books that are soon to come out are all examples of what I'm talking about. WotC could elect to publish one less suppliment a month and replace it with a well written adventure. The writers are obviously talented enough. The issue with that is published adventures, while good for everyone, are only purchased by DMs (for the most part). This lessens the buying potential to approx. 1/4 of what it would be if they published a suppliment...or something EVERYONE buys. I'd like to see more adventures and campaigns published. Just about all the ones I've played in recently have been great. |
| razorboy09-14-06, 12:52 PM | I'm of the opinion that as always WotC stuff is hit and miss. PHB2 and Tome of Battle and Hordes of the Abyss (IMO) were fantastic recent releases. DMG2, Complete Psionics, Mysteries of Moonsea and Dragons of Faerun left a sour and bitter taste, sort of like waking up from a night of hard drinking and vomiting and realizing that you can't remember what you've spent a hundred dollars on and that you'll never ever get that money back. |
| Elrond_Hubbard09-14-06, 03:33 PM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there books Not in my eyes. I think they're still tops in design, art, layout, and content. |
| Elrond_Hubbard09-14-06, 03:34 PM | I'm of the opinion that as always WotC stuff is hit and miss. PHB2 and Tome of Battle and Hordes of the Abyss (IMO) were fantastic recent releases. DMG2, Complete Psionics, Mysteries of Moonsea and Dragons of Faerun left a sour and bitter taste, sort of like waking up from a night of hard drinking and vomiting and realizing that you can't remember what you've spent a hundred dollars on and that you'll never ever get that money back. What didn't you like about Mysteries of the Moonsea? Not disagreeing, just interested in your two cents. |
| Slayer_509-14-06, 03:43 PM | Concepts and content are getting way better, but there is way too much space-wasting. To me, MM3 was the Perfect Monster Book, Complete Warrior was the Perfect Complete Book (In terms of crunch-to-fluff, and the fact it had something for EVERY class, even mages, AND, it didn't introduce any new concepts that were obsolete off the shelf (Alchemical Capsules, Invocations (for a while at least), Mantles) The fact that some books use a double-sized font I find just sleazy... And as for editing, hey, at least we aren't at Laws of Hunt yet... |
| Jhaelen09-14-06, 04:08 PM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there booksIt's definitely just you. What's going down hill is the quality of feedback on these boards. The whiners and discontents are clearly gaining the upper hand...:rolleyes: |
| jokei09-14-06, 04:28 PM | Well, I got PHBII and DMGII. I really liked DMGII, found it really useful, with quite a lot of stuff I'll use. However, I felt a bit burnt by PHBII (too fluffy), would've liked some prestige classes, how-to's on non-standard races would've been nice too. Sorry lost my train of thought... hmm |
| Ranger REG09-14-06, 04:58 PM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there books It depends. I know some people complain the shortened page count of supplements (160 pages). Others think WotC don't know what they want (as if they're supposed to read the consumers' minds). Some want monotone number/data/stat-crunch, others want inspirational fluff. Some want roleplaying suggestions included, others think it's a waste of ink and space. With this kind of bipolar (or fragmented), finicky consumer base, no wonder boardgames and TCGs are more popular in the market. With them, everyone accepts the rules and they are mostly not open-ended. |
| frasmage09-14-06, 07:33 PM | In my opinion it is not going down hill. I have found many of the books recently quite good (ToB is the best supplement from WotC ever IMHO). Though like most of you I half to say I am quite annoyed with the constant typos, errors and fumbles in the texts. they could seriously put more effort into that sector. It feels a bit like a video game where they give you patches. Of course you can't really change the book and I often find many people confused by these things. |
| Silverthumb12809-14-06, 07:51 PM | Its my opinion that the books aren't bad, they're just branching out in directions I'm just not interested in. There are cool feats here and there, awesome spells, and the occasional cool PrC, but overall, I just don't want to play what they're offering. I like keeping my games core, I like the earlier stuff where you couldn't flip-out like wuxia and be awesome at casting spells and melee at the same time, and get Spell Resistance and Damage Reduction, and everything I'd ever want because I hate losing Hit Points, and stuff like that. I really don't think the books are bad, its just that they've already published everything I want to play the characters I, myself, want. Though, I kinda hate what they did with Magic Items and Monster entries. |
| Ashok_Lal09-14-06, 11:25 PM | I started with WOTC back in the first edition of Magic the Gathering. Which we nicknamed Money the Gathering. Just making the next sereies of cards more & more powerfull. This patern is now reapeated in D&D. |
| Ranger REG09-15-06, 04:48 AM | I started with WOTC back in the first edition of Magic the Gathering. Which we nicknamed Money the Gathering. Just making the next sereies of cards more & more powerfull. This patern is now reapeated in D&D. Perhaps, but I can sleep at night knowing the creator/designer of Magic: The Gathering -- whose name is the same as that fat tabby cat in a comic strip -- is not writing material for RPGs. :smirk: :devil: |
| journeyman77709-15-06, 05:05 AM | I started with WOTC back in the first edition of Magic the Gathering. Which we nicknamed Money the Gathering. Just making the next sereies of cards more & more powerfull. This patern is now reapeated in D&D.Eh...most of the things I've seen get a power bump lately are the same things people have been calling gimped for some time. RoD and Dragon Magic do much to make sorcerers a stong and versatile class. PHB II gives people a good reason to take more than 4 levels of Fighter. Tome of Battle further increases the utility of melee classes in general (which are widely seen as being less effective than caster classes at higher levels). Maybe it's just the books I've bought, but seeing the weakest classes brought up to par while introducing new (and fairly well balanced) classes gives me an optimistic outlook on the rest. (Unless Complete Mage manages to make wizards even more insane, than I might agree on the power creep in general theory) |
| Ripe09-15-06, 05:13 AM | The books... hard to tell. Some are better, some are worse and some are dreadfull [Mysteries of the Moonsea fall into this category - when I buy a regional sourcebook I expect to find info on particular region not whole bunch of useless adventures that make 80% of book content]. But what I think is going down hill is quality of game itself... I mean do we really need 50+ classes and 500+ [I think the count is that high, if not higher] Prestige Classes most of which are almost never used by players. And almost each new book introduce another class or two and 5-10 new prestige classes. Not to mention many redundant feats, repetitive class ideas and complete stat bocks for deities [and why deities need stats is beyond me, PC's are not supposed to challenge them]. Ok, giving us more choices in creating characters is good but there is such a thing as too much options. And why making every single class, PrC or feat generic enough to fit into every game setting? Both Eberron and Forgotten Realms have such a distinct flavor [that most people like one or the other] that some feature which fit into one setting does not necessarily make good adjustment to the other [some do, others don't]. And there is no need to print setting specific [Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Oriental Adventure] material in Core rulebooks like it was case with Complete series. |
| babysamurai09-15-06, 05:28 AM | I started with WOTC back in the first edition of Magic the Gathering. Which we nicknamed Money the Gathering. Just making the next sereies of cards more & more powerfull. This patern is now reapeated in D&D. Actually, it’s the opposite; the Beta, Arabian Nights and Legends sets had cards they would never make today. Moxes, Time Walk, Channel, Ancestral Recall, Jihad, Juzam Djinn etc. |
| Argali09-15-06, 08:59 AM | The quality of the books themselves is actually better than it's ever been. The focus however is another matter. The repetitive nature of the content is what steers some people away IMO. All the Dragon Books, MM IV, and now all these "new" Complete books that are soon to come out are all examples of what I'm talking about. WotC could elect to publish one less suppliment a month and replace it with a well written adventure. The writers are obviously talented enough. The issue with that is published adventures, while good for everyone, are only purchased by DMs (for the most part). This lessens the buying potential to approx. 1/4 of what it would be if they published a suppliment...or something EVERYONE buys. I'd like to see more adventures and campaigns published. Just about all the ones I've played in recently have been great. I can't agree with this more; in fact I think this topic deserves its own thread. I don't understand why WoTC puts out so many books that do nothing but expand/complicate PrCs, feats, classes and spells. Instead of putting out books that let us have 12 different melee styles or whatever, why not put out a new wave of adventures that can rival the best modules of yore? Likewise, why does Eberron have to be the only new campaign setting? I miss the days where the new stuff coming out was expansion books for Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, etc. |
| babysamurai09-15-06, 09:06 AM | I can't agree with this more; in fact I think this topic deserves its own thread. I don't understand why WoTC puts out so many books that do nothing but expand/complicate PrCs, feats, classes and spells. Instead of putting out books that let us have 12 different melee styles or whatever, why not put out a new wave of adventures that can rival the best modules of yore? Likewise, why does Eberron have to be the only new campaign setting? I miss the days where the new stuff coming out was expansion books for Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, etc. I’m so glad they don’t print many modules these days. I’ve been DMing for 18 years now, and only once did I run a module (Touch of Death), and that was only because I was at a barbeque at my friend’s house when we realized that are regular group was all there so they asked me if I could run a one-shot. There’s nothing like knowing your players and designing your own adventure/campaign. I do agree about Eberron, though. |
| jokei09-15-06, 09:20 AM | I miss the days where the new stuff coming out was expansion books for Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, etc. I want to see Spelljammer come back, I'd like to see more modules too, but I'm guessing they would have a limited appeal and thus sales... |
| razorboy09-15-06, 10:25 AM | What I didn't like about Mysteries of Moonsea is that I was expecting another quality region book like City of Splendours, Underdark, Shining South and so on. Instead it was a book of four large adventures set in the Moonsea. It had some regional information, NPC stats, but for DMing a Moonsea campaign this information was organized haphazardly. I only browsed through the book but while the adventures seemed generally written OK, there did not seem to be significant links between the two, and the challenge rating of encounters seemed somewhat off. I guess it's just a matter of expectation - I expected a region book to help me as a DM and a player (new feats, spells, PrCs like in other region book). Instead, it was a premade loose campaign. I think a normal region book would've been more useful. |
| TheCarrionCrawler09-15-06, 12:13 PM | In my opinion it is not going down hill. I have found many of the books recently quite good (ToB is the best supplement from WotC ever IMHO). Though like most of you I half to say I am quite annoyed with the constant typos, errors and fumbles in the texts. they could seriously put more effort into that sector. It feels a bit like a video game where they give you patches. Of course you can't really change the book and I often find many people confused by these things. I hate mistakes too. :P |
| The Vorpal Tribble09-15-06, 03:42 PM | I tend to see a downward trend, though there are still nuggets of gold. Stunks of 2006 Complete Psionic Monster Manual IV 'Meh' of 2006 Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss Races of the Dragon Good of 2006 Player's Handbook II Tomb of Magic 2005 was a pretty good year though. I also have high hopes for Cityscape coming out in December. |
| Elrond_Hubbard09-15-06, 05:26 PM | Interesting. I thought the idea of MoM was interesting as a concept — but the writing of some of it was haphazard and not up to the usual snuff. Basically, it is a string of adventures through four cities on the Moonsea, and since there are 4 writers in the credits, I assume one did each city. Where some of the cities contain plausible encounters linked by a logical backstory, others seemed to have been made using a randon encounter generator - beholder lives in sewers right next to dragon, who lives right next to a trive of ogre magi, all getting along just swell. On the other hand, I thought stuff like Champions of Valor/Ruin were both great FR supplements -- well-written and interesting. |
| Elrond_Hubbard09-15-06, 05:28 PM | I'd just add that I, too, have high ghopes for Cityscape. |
| Issabella09-15-06, 05:36 PM | They need more play testing honestly. Hell throw it to the Character Op board and let them chew it over a few weeks...and then edit the book to clean up the silly supper combos they find in it. |
| Dexter_Blacktyde09-15-06, 05:42 PM | Where some of the cities contain plausible encounters linked by a logical backstory, others seemed to have been made using a randon encounter generator - beholder lives in sewers right next to dragon, who lives right next to a trive of ogre magi, all getting along just swell. IMHO MoM fails on both levels: as an adventure campaign because its best parts are more lame than anything I'd come up with on the fly and its worst parts are way up there with the witless inanity of D&D in the seventies, and as a sourcebook, because... well, because it isn't one. Generally, I have yet to see a WotC adventure that doesn't suck so hard I get a hickey from merely thinking about them, and the sourcebooks offer mostly prestige classes and feats or rules for too many things you only need your common sense for - in order to achieve a higher page count, I assume. That's why I stopped buying WotC products years ago. But at least you get a good chuckle or two out of the adventures if you borrow a copy or leaf through them in the shop, so they're not completely useless. DB |
| Elrond_Hubbard09-15-06, 06:08 PM | IMHO MoM fails on both levels: as an adventure campaign because its best parts are more lame than anything I'd come up with on the fly and its worst parts are way up there with the witless inanity of D&D in the seventies, and as a sourcebook, because... well, because it isn't one. Generally, I have yet to see a WotC adventure that doesn't suck so hard I get a hickey from merely thinking about them, and the sourcebooks offer mostly prestige classes and feats or rules for too many things you only need your common sense for - in order to achieve a higher page count, I assume. That's why I stopped buying WotC products years ago. But at least you get a good chuckle or two out of the adventures if you borrow a copy or leaf through them in the shop, so they're not completely useless. DB Did you buy MoM or just give it the hobby-store runthrough? The only thing I can think of in its defense is that it has never claimed to be a sourcebook, so I won't fault it on that note. OTOH, I thought City of the Spider Queen was quite good. |
| Dexter_Blacktyde09-15-06, 06:31 PM | Did you buy MoM or just give it the hobby-store runthrough? No, I borrowed it. The only thing I can think of in its defense is that it has never claimed to be a sourcebook, so I won't fault it on that note. True, but it didn't want to be a "mere" adventure, either. Basically you could say it wanted to combine both and ended up being neither. OTOH, I thought City of the Spider Queen was quite good. A typical D&D adventure, I'd say, not as abysmal as Deep Horizon and its ilk, but for this day and age...? Could've been printed in 1987 with the exact same content. I expect more from an adventure than a convoluted McGuffin to string a series of encounters together. It's not so much the actual execution of the respective WotC products, it's the philosophy that pervades them, and this philosophy seems to say WotC is (as TSR before it) content to release adventures with the same amount of complexity as the background story of a shoot'em up video game from the eighties - it only serves to justify the repetitive action without bothering to come up with more originality and believability than absolutely necessary. Most definitely not my flagon of ale. DB |
| Ripe09-15-06, 06:44 PM | Did you buy MoM or just give it the hobby-store runthrough? The only thing I can think of in its defense is that it has never claimed to be a sourcebook, so I won't fault it on that note. OTOH, I thought City of the Spider Queen was quite good. Well, the first line in introduction is: Mysteries of the Moonsea takes a different aproach from other regional FORGOTTEN REALMS books; it's a box of ready-to-use campaign pieces rather than an instruction manual on how to make those pieces yourself. Emphesis is mine. So it state that it's a regional book and yet it give very little info on the region. And even then it give info on only 4 cities in the region, despite the fact that map of the region [which can be found on page 7] clearly show that there is 7 major ports and 2 cities large enough to varrant inclusion on a map :rolleyes: . |
| Ranger REG09-16-06, 05:30 AM | Generally, I have yet to see a WotC adventure that doesn't suck so hard I get a hickey from merely thinking about them, With all due respect, I'd rather they don't print-publish adventures. Like me, you're finicky when it comes to choosing a good adventure suitable for your own gaming group. Better to design your own since you already have insight about your group's interests. To expect WotC to make a perfect adventure for your group is like asking them to read your mind. |
| slob209-16-06, 05:48 AM | What I would like to see is for WOTC to stop publishing so many source books and start publishing more adventures that use concepts from the sourcebooks. They could put codes on the covers of the adventures that state which sourcebooks are needed to run the adventure. So one adventure could use HoH and Comp Div. Another could use the Planar Handbook and Lords of Madness. And I would love to see a published adventure that uses Libris Mortis and Comp. Warrior. This would be so much better than having them release a sourcebook each month with 3 new classes (really just old Prestige Classes converted to true classes) and 15 new prestige classes of limited usefullness. Anyone else like this idea? |
| Dexter_Blacktyde09-16-06, 08:15 AM | Better to design your own since you already have insight about your group's interests. To expect WotC to make a perfect adventure for your group is like asking them to read your mind. Don't get me wrong, I've been designing my adventures for twenty years now and wouldn't have it any other way, even if the official adventures were at least halfway decent. But I certainly had hoped it wasn't just me who expects a modicum of sense and a gripping and appropriately complex storyline that's not just there to justify the encounters and the loot. Maybe it's just me, but some things just go without saying. DB |
| Dexter_Blacktyde09-16-06, 08:20 AM | What I would like to see is for WOTC to stop publishing so many source books and start publishing more adventures that use concepts from the sourcebooks. They could put codes on the covers of the adventures that state which sourcebooks are needed to run the adventure. So one adventure could use HoH and Comp Div. Another could use the Planar Handbook and Lords of Madness. And I would love to see a published adventure that uses Libris Mortis and Comp. Warrior. This would be so much better than having them release a sourcebook each month with 3 new classes (really just old Prestige Classes converted to true classes) and 15 new prestige classes of limited usefullness. Anyone else like this idea? From a business standpoint, that wouldn't be the best of ideas. Every D&D gamer has the core rulebooks, but only a fraction has the splatbooks, and only a fraction of this fraction has them all. By designing an adventure that requires access to HoH and CD, for example, you'd exclude all potential buyers from the purchase who own neither of the two or even only one of them. Since adventures don't sell particularly well to begin with, this would be a guarantee for these adventures to get in the red. Deep. DB |
| GimpyRogue1509-16-06, 11:39 AM | Lets all be honest now, the newer books are full of tat designed to fill pages to make the books look bigger. Beyond the base books and the completes i haven't seen a single book worth reading (i have e-books of most). My mate has recently let me have a look at the PH2 and its all well and good throwing about role-playing ideas but do we really need to be told what the personality of an angry character is or what a calm player is like. The alternative class abilities are all awful aswell. There are about two pages worth of good stuff in that book and they are feats. Just a thought but why are all the new classes in that book way too overpowered except the knight (which is alright if you like being a meatshield). The drawings in that book are also god awful compared to the core books and the completes. What the hell has happened to them? My little 10 yr old sis likes to look at the MM for the pics she looked at PH2 and told me that she could draw better and i would have to second that thought. Its a great business ploy by WoTC: let's repeat everything we have just said add in a few chapters of uselessness and we've got another book worth £20 we can sell to all those suckers. I'm just fed up of it. |
| countbubba09-16-06, 11:48 AM | Personally, and I haven't bought a book in probably 9 or 10 months, I don't think the books are "going downhill." What I think is happening is that WotC is getting more and more specific with their books because they've covered so much already. But, once again, I haven't bought any books in forever. I have looked through some of them, but only a little. Although now, with everyone singing the praises of Tome of Battle, I really want to see what's so great about it... |
| The_Jester09-16-06, 02:55 PM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there books I think the production quality of books is only getting better. Some of the recent books (Tome or Magic, Book or Nine Swords, Faiths of Eberron) have had a really nice and individual feel. As for actually readability/useability... well that's subjective. The really useful core books have been done and most of the obvious expansions (classes, races, etc) and we're in the middle period before Wizards can revise (3.5.5 edition: reorints with errata and clarifications). But we are at the compendium stage. The spell compendium was awesome and the magic item one should be equally fun. I hope classes/PrC and/or feats follows. There's enough material to really fill some "best of" books. |
| DrakoShade09-16-06, 03:09 PM | I'm not too horribly difficult to please... Just give me new sourcebooks with the page-count, font-size, and crunch/fluff ratio of the Core. It's not asking too much, is it? |
| kelvinaw27309-16-06, 06:35 PM | I have to say I feel a bit conned. I have bought all the Completes so far ... but now Complete Mage is coming out - but hang on, Complete Arcane covered arcane spellcasters!! I shouldn't have to but TWO complete books for a character class should I? |
| speeblefreak09-16-06, 08:07 PM | I have to say I feel a bit conned. I have bought all the Completes so far ... but now Complete Mage is coming out - but hang on, Complete Arcane covered arcane spellcasters!! I shouldn't have to but TWO complete books for a character class should I? Of course not. If Complete Arcane satisfies you, don't buy Complete Mage. |
| BoDiddilly09-17-06, 01:55 AM | I can see a trend of slacking in some of the recent books, I think the is more so the volume os source books. Think about it you can really create anything in D&D now just come up with a basic idea and then search through source books intill you find what fit your needs for instance I asked for a feat to lower the adjustment of metamagic feats on a forum and got a combonation 3 feats that make make most metamagic effects free. its out there all the time what can i do for this? adn I need that. so why bother with the source books it just use your imagination, creativity is what DnD is all about That aside the volume of new source books has other effects on the game too. For one with all the books thier are more and more abuses and oversights. Many early publishing including roll are becoming outdated. For instance the core rule books never took gish base class and builds into account so the Eldrich knight is almost extinct while the dragon disciple with practice spell casting looks better everyday. bracers of achery technicly give you profiency with the exotic greatbow. While Shifter are eligalbe for the warshaper Pcl at ECL 3. Also their now seems to be hundreds and hundreds of spells which gives spontanious cast seemingly endless options each round. |
| Starchaserva09-17-06, 02:18 AM | I actually think they're doing a pretty good job as of late, I think it's more impressive that they manage to come out with new/revised material every month. I'd rather have more good -great choices with a few bad ones mixed in then only a few good ones over a much longer time. I loved the PHB2, and both new Tomes were interesting takes. I've used nearly all the books I've owned, from Serpent Kingdoms to Underdark. |
| Jhaelen09-17-06, 05:08 AM | My little 10 yr old sis likes to look at the MM for the pics she looked at PH2 and told me that she could draw better and i would have to second that thought.Amazing! Your lil sis seems to be a true prodigy. Maybe you could share some of her incredible art with us? |
| Ranger REG09-17-06, 05:10 AM | Don't get me wrong, I've been designing my adventures for twenty years now and wouldn't have it any other way, even if the official adventures were at least halfway decent. But I certainly had hoped it wasn't just me who expects a modicum of sense and a gripping and appropriately complex storyline that's not just there to justify the encounters and the loot. Maybe it's just me, but some things just go without saying. If you want to make sense of your adventure, perhaps educate your players as a secondary benefit ("And the moral of the story is..."), go ahead. Just don't expect WotC to make Tolkien-Epic style adventures. That is expecting too much. Personally, what I really want is try and organize the clutter. I mean, imagine that all these rules option by WotC are tools; you buy them, and you put them in the garage. Sometimes you pull them out when you found use for them, like a certain drill bit from a 40-piece drill bit set. Sooner or later, you won't be fitting your car inside because of the tools thrown in there. Right now, I'm trying to follow a discussion on how to incorporate the material from Tome of Battle with material from Oriental Adventures. What I'm trying to do is find the answer to my question: "Do each of the rules options have a place in this big picture that is d20/D&D?" |
| allenchan09-17-06, 05:41 AM | Stunks of 2006 Complete Psionic Monster Manual IV Add Dragon Magic to that, if I were you. That book is just terrible, from yet another rehash of "I have auras!" for the fourth time, to "We could have just made Warlock substitution levels. Instead, here's an entire new(ha!) class to waste pages!" Faiths of Eberron, on the other hand, seems pretty good. Other then that, spot on, I say. edit: and my forecast for the day: The Castle Ravenloft book will be awesome, and Complete Mage "meh" |
| Dexter_Blacktyde09-17-06, 09:13 AM | If you want to make sense of your adventure, perhaps educate your players as a secondary benefit ("And the moral of the story is..."), go ahead. Just don't expect WotC to make Tolkien-Epic style adventures. That is expecting too much. Who said anything about Tolkien or epic adventures? I sure didn't. I'd simply like WotC adventures to not suck, that's something completely different. Among all the mediocrity, there are many good adventures out there, even some outstanding ones, which don't insult the intelligence and the imagination of an adult, tell a sophisticated and original story with wit and depth without relying on weird race/class/template combinations in order to come across as "original", and give the encounters a real meaning for the story instead of putting them in mostly for their own sake. Nothing of this has anything to do with epic style of play, but it has much to do with quality. See, I want a good book, movie or series once in a while, whereas a D&D adventure is more akin to a Saturday morning cartoon. Without dialogues. In black and white. DB |
| Ripe09-17-06, 11:13 AM | ...while the dragon disciple with practice spell casting looks better everyday. ... How? Practiced Spellcaster feat [if that is what you're refering to] only add to your caster level. It doesn't give you any additional spells per day or spells known [unless it was errated somewhere]. So how does dragon disciple with this feat look better? It's still crapy like before. |
| Aaron L09-17-06, 11:45 AM | is it just me or are the D&d books really going down hill in the quality of there books It's definately just you. PHB II, Book of Nine Swords, Champions of Valor... these are some of the best bks Ive seen from WotC in a while now. I'd say things are in fact getting better There willl always be clinkers. I was highly disappointed with Complete Psionic (and thats even an understatement), but in general I think the quality has taken a definate upward swing. I'm really lookign forward to Ravenloft and Complete Mage. |
| Ranger REG09-18-06, 05:13 AM | Who said anything about Tolkien or epic adventures? I sure didn't. I'd simply like WotC adventures to not suck, that's something completely different. Well, it depends on your suckage threshold. How low is your lowest denominator when recognizing a decent adventure? Story-based? Dungeon crawl? Mystery? Thriller? Courtly intrigue? |
| babysamurai09-18-06, 05:22 AM | I wish they would stop publishing modules altogether. I’ve been DMing for 18-years and have never put much faith in them. No one knows your group like you do. |
| Mechanic_Ape09-18-06, 08:03 AM | WOTC should continue to publish modules (at the same pace). The WOTC fanbase are time poor and now days raising kids. We dont have the time to write up our own adventures. There is a market (I hope a strong one) for well thought out modules / campaigns in a similar style to Dungeons adventure path series. All this module hate has surprised me. I picked up Red Hand of Doom and found it excellent. I hope it was profitable for WOTC so they produce more of the same. Here's a tip for spotting a good publication. Keep an eye on the authors. If they wrote something you like chances are they wont dissapoint. |
| Gorgosaure09-18-06, 12:56 PM | Stunks of 2006 Complete Psionic Out of curiosity : What's the problem with the Complete Psionics ? You're at least the tenth person I've read who say that. |
| Jhaelen09-18-06, 02:55 PM | Out of curiosity : What's the problem with the Complete Psionics ? You're at least the tenth person I've read who say that.There are simply too many problems to list them. It would be easier to say which parts of it don't suck. That would be, err, lemme think, the lurk base class, I guess. Regarding adventure modules from WotC: I liked several of them. But I never played a single one of them without heavily customizing them to fit into my campaign. If the story is sound, it's definitely worth the effort, since it's still easier to do than write an adventure from scratch. Of course you cannot typically base a whole campaign just on published scenarios, but it can be a time-saver if you use a mix of published adventures and adventures you create specifically for your party. |
| Ranger REG09-20-06, 06:18 AM | All this module hate has surprised me. I picked up Red Hand of Doom and found it excellent. I hope it was profitable for WOTC so they produce more of the same. It's not so much there is a module hate but that it is not a big seller, simply becuase we're finicky about what type of adventures we like to run. WotC have to guesstimate what the majority of their customers' preference for adventure scenario, then ask their acountant how much money can be budgeted toward the development of that module, hoping to get a huge return when said adventure module goes on sale. WotC was hoping that other outside companies would be making modules for their game rules products, as their primary agenda for making d20 Open to outside publishers. But YOU! YOU label fans can't see beyond the D&D and WotC logo. There are loads of adventure modules you can pick up without bothering WotC. :rant: :evillaugh Ahh. I feel much better now. |
| babysamurai09-20-06, 06:23 AM | But YOU! YOU label fans can't see beyond the D&D and WotC logo. There are loads of adventure modules you can pick up without bothering WotC. :rant: Who, me? *looks nervously over his should for a rampaging Ranger REG* |
| razorboy09-20-06, 08:00 AM | I haven't had a look at Red Hand of Doom but I heard on the boards that it was an excellent module. I HAVE on the other hand, had a chance to look at Mysteries of Moonsea and it was a complete let-down - they should've just published another region book, they tend (with exception of Waterdeep that was merely okay IMO) to be very good. The best Third Ed adventure/campaign module that I've ran was City of the Spider Queen - it was a blast of a campaign. |
| allenchan09-20-06, 07:58 PM | But YOU! YOU label fans can't see beyond the D&D and WotC logo. There are loads of adventure modules you can pick up without bothering WotC. :rant: Personally, I cant see past campaign settings, not wotc. Most wotc adventures that are published are...? Yup, Forgotten Realms or Eberron modules. That is something wotc alone has, and why people (like me), expect more modules from wotc. That, or be willing to allow their precious settings to be used by other people, but I'd wager they'd go bankrupt before letting that happen. |
| GreyLord09-20-06, 08:34 PM | WOTC should continue to publish modules (at the same pace). The WOTC fanbase are time poor and now days raising kids. We dont have the time to write up our own adventures. There is a market (I hope a strong one) for well thought out modules / campaigns in a similar style to Dungeons adventure path series. All this module hate has surprised me. I picked up Red Hand of Doom and found it excellent. I hope it was profitable for WOTC so they produce more of the same. Here's a tip for spotting a good publication. Keep an eye on the authors. If they wrote something you like chances are they wont dissapoint. I have good news for you, there are a few more already on the books to come out next year! I don't expect they'll be cancelled, so it looks good for you for a few months at least. |
| Ranger REG09-21-06, 04:55 AM | Personally, I cant see past campaign settings, not wotc. Most wotc adventures that are published are...? Yup, Forgotten Realms or Eberron modules. That is something wotc alone has, and why people (like me), expect more modules from wotc. That, or be willing to allow their precious settings to be used by other people, but I'd wager they'd go bankrupt before letting that happen. Oh, yes. Heaven forbid one of us should try and take a Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classic module (for example), and tinker it to adapt to one of WotC's published campaign settings. WotC can't have their customers using their resourceful and creative juice in their brainpan, nor acquire an IQ of 90 or higher. :rolleye2: |
| jokei09-21-06, 03:10 PM | doh! Should have put this in my previous post - It would be nice to see more modules published; personally I'd like to see some Faerun stuff. BUT!!! I find the quality of modules in Dungeon, on the whole to be excellent and don't need too much tinkering with to fit into my campaign. I'm using one called "Funeral Procession" and expanded it a bit; I'm doing this to free-up a bit of time so I can concentrate on the adventure I'm currently writing. ...also, there is quite a bit of stuff available online. I'd like more regional sourcebooks please. |
| allenchan09-21-06, 05:44 PM | Oh, yes. Heaven forbid one of us should try and take a Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classic module (for example), and tinker it to adapt to one of WotC's published campaign settings. WotC can't have their customers using their resourceful and creative juice in their brainpan, nor acquire an IQ of 90 or higher. :rolleye2: What you dont understand is that eliminates the entire point of modules: to save time. Some of us have kids, full time jobs, full-time college, or all three. If we had spare time in the first place, people would make their own adventures from scratch. |
| Ranger REG09-22-06, 04:52 PM | What you dont understand is that eliminates the entire point of modules: to save time. Some of us have kids, full time jobs, full-time college, or all three. If we had spare time in the first place, people would make their own adventures from scratch. Then at the risking of getting flamed ... perhaps this is not your gaming hobby. Good news is that there are other hobbies that does not take much of your time prepping. That's why boardgames in general are #1 seller in the game market (with RPGs falling in a distant third). If you still want to cling to RPG hobby, then look to other d20 alternatives. Like novels, pick the module that would entertain your gaming group. Or subscribe to Dungeon. |
| lantan_gnome10-03-06, 09:25 AM | ...3.0 and yes it stil burns that and tome and blood> complete arcane> complete mage i thought 3e time was a lucky charm ....i wonder how many times they need to get it right so no i feel its not going downhill,in fact there is no hill only a spoon |
| Ranger REG10-04-06, 08:29 PM | so no i feel its not going downhill,in fact there is no hill only a spoon Teaspoon? Tablespoon? Dinner spoon? Spooning with a halfling? Spooning with a dragon? :uh-huh: Oh, no. You can't possibly mean ... insert ominous organ music ... wait for it ... wait for it ... SPORKS?!?!!! :gah: |