are we being overpovered ??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

are we being overpovered ??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gullas
11-21-06, 07:49 AM umh.....the thing is......me(and my friends) are playing an evil ebberon campaign , then our Dm said that we could get a 1 bonus feat for being evil.....does this one extra feat make us over powered???:confused:
frasmage
11-21-06, 08:00 AM not necessarily. Compared to each other you would be approx. the same and I'm sure your DM would make the challenge of your encounters stays at the right level.

one feat is not going to turn the game upside down
Seeker95
11-21-06, 09:07 AM As long as your DM makes the encounters more powerful, it will be fine. However, this ruling does not bode well for a balanced game. When the DM offers to make you more powerful, it usually means he is going to up the ante a lot, or that he is a munchkin-herder looking for a flock.
Manic Man
11-21-06, 09:18 AM Yes absolutely you are over powered.
Take for example, if you used your 1st level feat, your evil feat and your bonus human feat to take the following:

Feat Name: Bash DM
Benefit: You get to bash your DM OOC
Normal: You don't bash your DM as its a social no no.
Special: This feat can be take by a level 1 character only

Feat Name: Grab the DM's screen
Benefit: You get your hands on the DM's screen
Normal: As a player, you're on the other side of the screen
Special: This feat can be take by a level 1 character only

Feat Name: Be DM
Pre reqs: Bash DM, Grab the DM's screen
Benefit: You are now the DM
Normal: Normally the DM is not you
Special: This feat can be take by a level 1 character only. You can only be a player if you have a DM PC

Note that by the normal rules (non UA, etc), you can't get enough feats at first level to accomplish this
Grand Theft Otto
11-21-06, 11:18 AM I give a bonus feat and 8 skill points to anyone who writes a detailed backstory. The difference is negligable in long term play.
SephDragoon
11-21-06, 11:35 AM Hm... as a DM who is running an evil campaign, let me tell you... I started my players at 3rd level. I told them, "Because you are all playing evil, I am not going to let you run a muck. There will be no punches pulled, no dice fudged, no stupid mistakes left unpunished." He may be thinking the same thing. The game changes alot when it is an evil campaign. He may be giving you a slight edge to survive the endless onslaught of good guys.

Oh, just to note... be very very careful, think things through. I had one of my players try to knock down the door to the guild that hired him to try and kill the guildmaster (he was mad about the job). This was second session... fastest player kill I've ever seen. So, don't take your DM lightly on this. You murder soemone, guards will be looking for you, you **** with the balance of the world, people will come to stop you. If you were good guys, it would be different, but as a bad guy, the majority of the population is now your enemy, and monsters still are too.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
11-21-06, 01:26 PM umh.....the thing is......me(and my friends) are playing an evil ebberon campaign , then our Dm said that we could get a 1 bonus feat for being evil.....does this one extra feat make us over powered???:confused:

Assuming that your DM is reasonably competent, it should have a negligible effect on gameplay. It's not really a big deal, believe me.
frasmage
11-21-06, 01:50 PM I give a bonus feat and 8 skill points to anyone who writes a detailed backstory. The difference is negligable in long term play.

that is a generous houserule. The more I think about it, the more I think I might need to start using that
Grand Theft Otto
11-21-06, 02:36 PM Its also worth noting that evil characters are at a marked disadvantage by the D&D rules. Inflict wound spells flat out suck, and the ability to spontaneously cast them is useless. So your cleric will be forced to mem heal spells (ironically turning them into the walking band-aids that 3.0 wanted to avoid). Good dragons are tougher for their CR's than evil dragons due to their brutal status effect breath weapons. Celestials are also generally overpowered for their CR's. Moreover, you'll routinely fight evil creatures as well, such as demons/devils - good luck penetrating that /good DR.
Lorianne
11-21-06, 03:58 PM You murder soemone, guards will be looking for you, you **** with the balance of the world, people will come to stop you. If you were good guys, it would be different, but as a bad guy, the majority of the population is now your enemy, and monsters still are too.
In my gameworld, you'll get persecuted if you kill someone even if you're a 'good guy'. Murder is still murder, whatever your alignment may be... To do it otherwise, I consider to be metagaming.

But for the OP's question; No, I don't think that it's very unbalancing. I wouldn't change the way the world works around my players though.
The thing about playing evil isn't so much as having the 'tables turned' in the way of having a disadvantage, I see it more as a roleplaying challenge for the players. They'll have to go about their business in a different way, which might give them some moral dilemma's which they wouldn't have to think about when playing neutral or good.
SephDragoon
11-21-06, 05:11 PM In my gameworld, you'll get persecuted if you kill someone even if you're a 'good guy'. Murder is still murder, whatever your alignment may be... To do it otherwise, I consider to be metagaming.

A REAL good guy wouldn't commit murder is my point. If a good guy is really sticking to his alignment, he killed the guy because he was a bandit or some such... Owe... how does that get misunderstood and picked apart... *shakes head*
Lorianne
11-21-06, 05:33 PM Killing someone, even if he might be a bandit, is still murder in my eyes...
Take them down, deliver them to the (local) authorities, and put them in jail. Or, if the crimes he/she have been severe enough, they can be executed. But by just hacking them down because they (try to) rob you, you'll be no better at all.
Deagar
11-21-06, 06:03 PM The one thing I'd worry about is that he'll turn into a "Monty Haul," a GM that lets you walk in, slay a dragon with a magic missle, and then walk out with 10x standard loot. This might be a precursor.

If not, almost every one of my characters has gotten a bonus feat somehow, and it never seemed to be an issue.
SephDragoon
11-21-06, 06:23 PM Killing someone, even if he might be a bandit, is still murder in my eyes...
Take them down, deliver them to the (local) authorities, and put them in jail. Or, if the crimes he/she have been severe enough, they can be executed. But by just hacking them down because they (try to) rob you, you'll be no better at all.

Evil is evil, whether it is an orc or a human who tries to kill you and take all your belongings. Really, normal morality has nothing to do with a D&D world, and seemingly with many other people's perceptions. As long as they aren't the same as you, its ok to kill them it seems, even with absolutely no proof of wrongdoing. But if they are the same race, oh no, gotta go through due process. Bah, treat everyone equally, based on their actions, not who or what they are. Orcs and trolls and goblins all do the same exact thing as bandits... they just also eat you afterwards (they have to eat something...).
Lorianne
11-22-06, 02:41 AM I don't treat them differently, all humanoid creatures get that same treatment. Unless they're inherently evil (like drow for instance), they'll not just get killed (without serious provocation). At least not without repercussions for the player/party.
SephDragoon
11-22-06, 04:37 AM I don't treat them differently, all humanoid creatures get that same treatment. Unless they're inherently evil (like drow for instance), they'll not just get killed (without serious provocation). At least not without repercussions for the player/party.

Frankly, this seems like the most liberal bullsh-t I've heard in a long time. Remind me never to play in a game you DM. How do you handle Paladins? They are SUPPOSED to smite evil. Because that evil being is humanoid, you make him take an alignment penalty? Wow, ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't. Bandits rape, murder, pillage, kidnap. If I see a bandit, its dead. Now notably, if they surrendered, I'd take them into the authorities, but they better drop their weapons first. (I have to have mercy after all)

Otherwise, I'm cleaning up society!
gullas
11-22-06, 08:57 AM actually .......my Dm is also playing a rouge pc carchcter with us ......and um he needed one feat for his two wepon thingy:rolleyes:

............
But he told us not to use this feat for combat-feat
for example I'm playing a half-orc monk and those are my feats:w00t:

Weapon focus unarmed
Stunnig fist ( the Monk's bonus feat)
skill focus tumble(the evil bonus feat :D )
Einvaldurinn_mikli
11-22-06, 09:28 AM actually .......my Dm is also playing a rouge pc carchcter with us ......and um he needed one feat for his two wepon thingy:rolleyes:

This is a very bad sign you know, a DMPC is almost exclusively a bad thing, especially if there are clear signs of favoritism. How many people are there in your group? If there are five or more total, then the active DM should not have a character.

Og líka, halló:D Alltaf gaman að sjá Íslendinga sem spila.
gullas
11-22-06, 09:32 AM actually we are 2 ,without the dm:(
so I think it's only fair :D

og annars sömuleiðis ;) ertu mikið fyrir LG eða stuff??.....því ég er ekki mikið fyrir þannig:rolleyes: alltof fáir möguleikar sem maður getur gert:P
Einvaldurinn_mikli
11-22-06, 09:37 AM actually we are 2 ,without the dm:(
so I think it's only fair :D

og annars sömuleiðis ;) ertu mikið fyrir LG eða stuff??.....því ég er ekki mikið fyrir þannig:rolleyes: alltof fáir möguleikar sem maður getur gert:P

Nei, LE er í mestu uppáhaldi hjá mér. Eitt sem þið gætuð athugað væri Gestalt og 36PB. Ef þú veist ekki hvað gestalt er farðu þá bara á þessa síðu: www.d20srd.com og finndu það. Ætti að virka vel.
gullas
11-22-06, 09:41 AM Spes;) ...thx man
Einvaldurinn_mikli
11-22-06, 09:46 AM Spes;) ...thx man

Hvað er spes?
Starman IX
11-22-06, 10:16 AM Otherwise, I'm cleaning up society!Darn tootin! Play the Super Mario Brothers theme when ahm hackin and slashin mah baddies! :rolleyes:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gullas 11-21-06, 07:49 AM	umh.....the thing is......me(and my friends) are playing an evil ebberon campaign , then our Dm said that we could get a 1 bonus feat for being evil.....does this one extra feat make us over powered???:confused:
frasmage 11-21-06, 08:00 AM	not necessarily. Compared to each other you would be approx. the same and I'm sure your DM would make the challenge of your encounters stays at the right level. one feat is not going to turn the game upside down
Seeker95 11-21-06, 09:07 AM	As long as your DM makes the encounters more powerful, it will be fine. However, this ruling does not bode well for a balanced game. When the DM offers to make you more powerful, it usually means he is going to up the ante a lot, or that he is a munchkin-herder looking for a flock.
Manic Man 11-21-06, 09:18 AM	Yes absolutely you are over powered. Take for example, if you used your 1st level feat, your evil feat and your bonus human feat to take the following: Feat Name: Bash DM Benefit: You get to bash your DM OOC Normal: You don't bash your DM as its a social no no. Special: This feat can be take by a level 1 character only Feat Name: Grab the DM's screen Benefit: You get your hands on the DM's screen Normal: As a player, you're on the other side of the screen Special: This feat can be take by a level 1 character only Feat Name: Be DM Pre reqs: Bash DM, Grab the DM's screen Benefit: You are now the DM Normal: Normally the DM is not you Special: This feat can be take by a level 1 character only. You can only be a player if you have a DM PC Note that by the normal rules (non UA, etc), you can't get enough feats at first level to accomplish this
Grand Theft Otto 11-21-06, 11:18 AM	I give a bonus feat and 8 skill points to anyone who writes a detailed backstory. The difference is negligable in long term play.
SephDragoon 11-21-06, 11:35 AM	Hm... as a DM who is running an evil campaign, let me tell you... I started my players at 3rd level. I told them, "Because you are all playing evil, I am not going to let you run a muck. There will be no punches pulled, no dice fudged, no stupid mistakes left unpunished." He may be thinking the same thing. The game changes alot when it is an evil campaign. He may be giving you a slight edge to survive the endless onslaught of good guys. Oh, just to note... be very very careful, think things through. I had one of my players try to knock down the door to the guild that hired him to try and kill the guildmaster (he was mad about the job). This was second session... fastest player kill I've ever seen. So, don't take your DM lightly on this. You murder soemone, guards will be looking for you, you **** with the balance of the world, people will come to stop you. If you were good guys, it would be different, but as a bad guy, the majority of the population is now your enemy, and monsters still are too.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 11-21-06, 01:26 PM	umh.....the thing is......me(and my friends) are playing an evil ebberon campaign , then our Dm said that we could get a 1 bonus feat for being evil.....does this one extra feat make us over powered???:confused: Assuming that your DM is reasonably competent, it should have a negligible effect on gameplay. It's not really a big deal, believe me.
frasmage 11-21-06, 01:50 PM	I give a bonus feat and 8 skill points to anyone who writes a detailed backstory. The difference is negligable in long term play. that is a generous houserule. The more I think about it, the more I think I might need to start using that
Grand Theft Otto 11-21-06, 02:36 PM	Its also worth noting that evil characters are at a marked disadvantage by the D&D rules. Inflict wound spells flat out suck, and the ability to spontaneously cast them is useless. So your cleric will be forced to mem heal spells (ironically turning them into the walking band-aids that 3.0 wanted to avoid). Good dragons are tougher for their CR's than evil dragons due to their brutal status effect breath weapons. Celestials are also generally overpowered for their CR's. Moreover, you'll routinely fight evil creatures as well, such as demons/devils - good luck penetrating that /good DR.
Lorianne 11-21-06, 03:58 PM	You murder soemone, guards will be looking for you, you **** with the balance of the world, people will come to stop you. If you were good guys, it would be different, but as a bad guy, the majority of the population is now your enemy, and monsters still are too. In my gameworld, you'll get persecuted if you kill someone even if you're a 'good guy'. Murder is still murder, whatever your alignment may be... To do it otherwise, I consider to be metagaming. But for the OP's question; No, I don't think that it's very unbalancing. I wouldn't change the way the world works around my players though. The thing about playing evil isn't so much as having the 'tables turned' in the way of having a disadvantage, I see it more as a roleplaying challenge for the players. They'll have to go about their business in a different way, which might give them some moral dilemma's which they wouldn't have to think about when playing neutral or good.
SephDragoon 11-21-06, 05:11 PM	In my gameworld, you'll get persecuted if you kill someone even if you're a 'good guy'. Murder is still murder, whatever your alignment may be... To do it otherwise, I consider to be metagaming. A REAL good guy wouldn't commit murder is my point. If a good guy is really sticking to his alignment, he killed the guy because he was a bandit or some such... Owe... how does that get misunderstood and picked apart... shakes head
Lorianne 11-21-06, 05:33 PM	Killing someone, even if he might be a bandit, is still murder in my eyes... Take them down, deliver them to the (local) authorities, and put them in jail. Or, if the crimes he/she have been severe enough, they can be executed. But by just hacking them down because they (try to) rob you, you'll be no better at all.
Deagar 11-21-06, 06:03 PM	The one thing I'd worry about is that he'll turn into a "Monty Haul," a GM that lets you walk in, slay a dragon with a magic missle, and then walk out with 10x standard loot. This might be a precursor. If not, almost every one of my characters has gotten a bonus feat somehow, and it never seemed to be an issue.
SephDragoon 11-21-06, 06:23 PM	Killing someone, even if he might be a bandit, is still murder in my eyes... Take them down, deliver them to the (local) authorities, and put them in jail. Or, if the crimes he/she have been severe enough, they can be executed. But by just hacking them down because they (try to) rob you, you'll be no better at all. Evil is evil, whether it is an orc or a human who tries to kill you and take all your belongings. Really, normal morality has nothing to do with a D&D world, and seemingly with many other people's perceptions. As long as they aren't the same as you, its ok to kill them it seems, even with absolutely no proof of wrongdoing. But if they are the same race, oh no, gotta go through due process. Bah, treat everyone equally, based on their actions, not who or what they are. Orcs and trolls and goblins all do the same exact thing as bandits... they just also eat you afterwards (they have to eat something...).
Lorianne 11-22-06, 02:41 AM	I don't treat them differently, all humanoid creatures get that same treatment. Unless they're inherently evil (like drow for instance), they'll not just get killed (without serious provocation). At least not without repercussions for the player/party.
SephDragoon 11-22-06, 04:37 AM	I don't treat them differently, all humanoid creatures get that same treatment. Unless they're inherently evil (like drow for instance), they'll not just get killed (without serious provocation). At least not without repercussions for the player/party. Frankly, this seems like the most liberal bullsh-t I've heard in a long time. Remind me never to play in a game you DM. How do you handle Paladins? They are SUPPOSED to smite evil. Because that evil being is humanoid, you make him take an alignment penalty? Wow, **ed if you do, **ed if you don't. Bandits rape, murder, pillage, kidnap. If I see a bandit, its dead. Now notably, if they surrendered, I'd take them into the authorities, but they better drop their weapons first. (I have to have mercy after all) Otherwise, I'm cleaning up society!
gullas 11-22-06, 08:57 AM	actually .......my Dm is also playing a rouge pc carchcter with us ......and um he needed one feat for his two wepon thingy:rolleyes: ............ But he told us not to use this feat for combat-feat for example I'm playing a half-orc monk and those are my feats:w00t: Weapon focus unarmed Stunnig fist ( the Monk's bonus feat) skill focus tumble(the evil bonus feat :D )
Einvaldurinn_mikli 11-22-06, 09:28 AM	actually .......my Dm is also playing a rouge pc carchcter with us ......and um he needed one feat for his two wepon thingy:rolleyes: This is a very bad sign you know, a DMPC is almost exclusively a bad thing, especially if there are clear signs of favoritism. How many people are there in your group? If there are five or more total, then the active DM should not have a character. Og líka, halló:D Alltaf gaman að sjá Íslendinga sem spila.
gullas 11-22-06, 09:32 AM	actually we are 2 ,without the dm:( so I think it's only fair :D og annars sömuleiðis ;) ertu mikið fyrir LG eða stuff??.....því ég er ekki mikið fyrir þannig:rolleyes: alltof fáir möguleikar sem maður getur gert:P
Einvaldurinn_mikli 11-22-06, 09:37 AM	actually we are 2 ,without the dm:( so I think it's only fair :D og annars sömuleiðis ;) ertu mikið fyrir LG eða stuff??.....því ég er ekki mikið fyrir þannig:rolleyes: alltof fáir möguleikar sem maður getur gert:P Nei, LE er í mestu uppáhaldi hjá mér. Eitt sem þið gætuð athugað væri Gestalt og 36PB. Ef þú veist ekki hvað gestalt er farðu þá bara á þessa síðu: www.d20srd.com og finndu það. Ætti að virka vel.
gullas 11-22-06, 09:41 AM	Spes;) ...thx man
Einvaldurinn_mikli 11-22-06, 09:46 AM	Spes;) ...thx man Hvað er spes?
Starman IX 11-22-06, 10:16 AM	Otherwise, I'm cleaning up society!Darn tootin! Play the Super Mario Brothers theme when ahm hackin and slashin mah baddies! :rolleyes: