Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreyLord 04-21-07, 05:57 PM	I know Dungeon will be gone, but supposedly Paizo will still be releasing adventures, just under the OGL license. So if they are still going to have a magazine for adventures, just not calling it Dungeon, why is everyone crying. In addition we'll have online stuff from WoTC. I know that doesn't cover hardcopy of Dragon, but at least the Dungeon stuff will merely be switched from official 3.5 stuff to OGL adventures. OGL stuff is still very useable by me, so I'm not certain why people are crying about Dungeon's demise if the Dungeon type material is still available by the people making it. And we have the addition of WotC stuff too, so from that front it sounds like it could be a good thing perhaps. I'd imagine if there is enough demand that they might even make a magazine like Dragon with OGL material too given time, who knows, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing and I can't understand why you suddenly will stop buying Paizo's stuff if it's not called Dragon or Dungeon?
darth_borehd 04-21-07, 07:12 PM	I know Dungeon will be gone, but supposedly Paizo will still be releasing adventures, just under the OGL license. So if they are still going to have a magazine for adventures, just not calling it Dungeon, why is everyone crying. In addition we'll have online stuff from WoTC. I know that doesn't cover hardcopy of Dragon, but at least the Dungeon stuff will merely be switched from official 3.5 stuff to OGL adventures. OGL stuff is still very useable by me, so I'm not certain why people are crying about Dungeon's demise if the Dungeon type material is still available by the people making it. And we have the addition of WotC stuff too, so from that front it sounds like it could be a good thing perhaps. I'd imagine if there is enough demand that they might even make a magazine like Dragon with OGL material too given time, who knows, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing and I can't understand why you suddenly will stop buying Paizo's stuff if it's not called Dragon or Dungeon? Some things you seem to have missed: Pathfinder is NOT a replacement for Dragon. Pathfinder is not a direct replacement for Dungeon either. Pathfinder is more like a series of adventure modules. Each issue of Pathfinder will sell for $19.99. Pathfinder will be compatible and not official. Pathfinder will not use existing campaign settings but will be for Paizo's upcoming campaign setting. Pathfinder may turn out to be a good adventure campaign and I would like to see it, but its not Dungeon and definately not Dragon. To date, the only Paizo product I've been interested in has been those magazines.
Zherog 04-21-07, 08:12 PM	Each issue of Pathfinder will sell for $19.99. To be fair, there is a discount if you subscribe.
celtredleg 04-21-07, 08:19 PM	As I have never bought anything other than a couple issues of dragon, no they will not get less from me. If they do a good setting, that I may be interested in.
Seeker95 04-21-07, 08:58 PM	GreyLord, how dare you speak with a voice of reason in these days of apocalypse?!
taradusis 04-21-07, 09:27 PM	I had subscriptions to Dragon and Dungeon.I switched to Pathfinder already.If WOTC wants my money they can give the licences back to the people at Paizo who at least know how to put out a magazine.If Wotc ever gets their act together and actually put out an E-zine I'll give it the once over,but considering their track record on not keeping their promises,I'm not holding my breath waiting for the suits to get a clue.
Seeker95 04-21-07, 09:46 PM	If WOTC wants my money they can give the licenses back to the people at Paizo who at least know how to put out a magazine.Paizo wouldn't take the license back. They have moved forward in response to this news. The announcement was not "sudden" for everyone involved in it. Paizo made plans. Dungeon and Dragon are not in those plans.
taradusis 04-21-07, 09:58 PM	Not the point of my arguement.Wotc transferred their creative people to paizo so they could release DnD material.Wotc Is now acting as if they can come out with a successful E-zine.I'm going with the professionals at Paizo,Wotc can cherish whatever delusions they wish.
GrimshofHighSorcery 04-21-07, 10:39 PM	I am not going to abandon Paizo at all, seeing as they are the geniuses behind it all (well for adventures anyways, Dragon not so much). I look forward to Pathfinder, and it seems very interesting. WotC has been putting out sub-par material for a few years now, and after hearing this and looking at WotC products for this year, I have realized that I am only making one purchase from them...and that is going to be Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins, and only because I love Greyhawk. After that, no more products because they all seem useless, or just a different spin on something basic, or an old product. Pathfinder is new, exciting and looks very interesting. I can not wait for it!
Mortavier Shadewalk 04-21-07, 11:59 PM	Paizo has my full support. Hell, if I get a little money, I'm planning on getting a subscription to Pathfinder. Now WoC... If you don't know how I feel about that, you haven't been paying any attention.
Yaeri 04-22-07, 04:23 AM	GreyLord, how dare you speak with a voice of reason in these days of apocalypse?! HERETIC! :headexplo You're either 12 years old or not a real gamer. Otherwise you'd have burned all your D&D books, sent anthrax to WotC headquarters and eaten your computer. (with account) Greylord, the crying will eventually subside. See, there's already only 57 Dragon and Dungeon magazine threads left. The storm is already passing. :D No really, people freak out, but they'll get tired of it. (Hopefully soon, as now the boards are being litterred). They'll eventually wait and see what Wizards comes up with. And no matter what they'll come up with, no doubt there'll be another flood of crap on the forums. So when this one lies down, you already have something new to look forward to. (In 7 months)
Seeker95 04-22-07, 06:54 PM	Not the point of my arguement. Wotc transferred their creative people to paizo so they could release DnD material. Wotc Is now acting as if they can come out with a successful E-zine. I'm going with the professionals at Paizo, Wotc can cherish whatever delusions they wish.Many of the professionals from Paizo are already back at WotC full-time (e.g., Sernett, Decker), and many of the others are actively freelance on WotC products (e.g., McArtor, Baker and Baker, Bauer, etc.) In the April issue of Dragon, half the contributing artists have done freelance work for WotC in the past year, and of the contributing authors, half have done freelance work for WotC on published products and alarge number have done website material... all in the past year. The only parts of Paizo that are going to stay Paizo-only" are likely to be the accountants and the warehouse personnel. Even the editorial staff will likely freelance on projects that don't fit Paizo's product line.
smeelbo 04-22-07, 07:18 PM	No, this is just another example of the consequences of the brain drain at Wizards of the Coast. As a buyer for a small chain of game stores in Silicon Valley, I dread the end of Wizards of the Coast that D&D 4.0 will certainly bring. Wizards of the Coast no longer has a fraction of the talent and ability they had even four years ago, and the quality of their management is on the decline as well. Sadly, because of Magic and to a lesser extent, their miniature lines, they will be shielded from the more immediate consequences of their stupidity. No customer I have spoken with (and I see hundreds every month) views D&D 4.0 with anything other than dread. No customer I know looks forward to D&D 4.0. The quality of the rule books is steadily declining, and the only bright sign is their adventure books, which have been the best designed that Wizards has ever produced. If my customers do not look forward to 4.0, then I am unlikely to risk much capital stocking them. If, as a buyer for a chain of game stores, reduce my orders once 4.0 begins, and other game stores follow, then suppliers will reduce their orders. For a time, Wizards may be able to live off the profits generated by Magic, and by the large orders by chains like Borders and Barnes & Nobles, and this will mask their decline for a few quarters, but only an act of genius could inspire customers to adopt 4.0 after selling us dozens of 3.5 books, and frankly, Wizards has lost any genius they once had, and are left with hacks like Richard Burlew. Their divorce from Paizo is just another sign of entrenched stupidity. My honest advice to the sales representatives at Wizards of the Coast is to look for another job before they find themselves downsized or outsourced. Smeelbo
Romtos 04-23-07, 03:07 PM	I can respect the decision to get the license from Paizo back. But why didn't they just release the magazines themselves. Oh, the agony.
Zherog 04-23-07, 03:32 PM	...and are left with hacks like Richard Burlew. So, um.... do you know Rich Burlew doesn't work for WotC? Yeah, crazy, I know. But hey - if you're gonna accuse WotC employees of being hacks, the least you could do is pick somebody who actually does work for the company. Barring that, your next best bet would to be pick somebody who at one time worked for the company. Rich doesn't fall into either of those categories... :rolleyes:
OravennasBrother 04-23-07, 03:48 PM	So, um.... do you know Rich Burlew doesn't work for WotC? Perhaps BUrlew was noted as he is a well known Hack, unlike all the anonymous hacks working in the unnamed recesses of WoTC.
Grand Theft Otto 04-23-07, 04:12 PM	I know that doesn't cover hardcopy of Dragon, but at least the Dungeon stuff will merely be switched from official 3.5 stuff to OGL adventures. OGL stuff is still very useable by me, so I'm not certain why people are crying about Dungeon's demise if the Dungeon type material is still available by the people making it. That in and of itself is pretty big. Dungeon would routinely pull from various sourcebooks, which added value to materials you already purchased. The loss of non OGL monsters like beholders and umber hulks is also major. The first adventure path seems to be catering to the bland european based fantasy crowd. I can see why, its safe, since the average gamer pees themselves over regurgitated Tolkien. But what if you arent into that? Dungeon offered 3-4 adventures per month, set in a variety of settings. Thats another big loss IMO.
Grand Theft Otto 04-23-07, 04:13 PM	To be fair, there is a discount if you subscribe. It amounts to 18 bucks after shipping. Dungeon was about 3.