Are YOU supporting post-Dungeon Paizo? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are YOU supporting post-Dungeon Paizo? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alter_Boy
10-18-07, 11:31 PM I'm throwing down the gauntlet.

For those of you whining about WotC's cancellation of the paper magazine and how they are running their on-line magazine, pick up Pathfinder. Or Kobold Quarterly. Or some 3rd party publication of equal quality.

Show WotC you actually have some conviction. If you moan about DDI and 4th Edition but buy it anyways, your opinions will never mean anything to WotC. You'll prove to them that the most important thing isn't good design, innovative ideas, and fresh plots, but the "100% official content" sticker.

Make D&D and RPGs better. Support the best.

*Just to be clear, I like WotC, DDI, Pathfinder, and Kobold Quarterly.*
Stormonu
10-19-07, 02:17 AM *shrug*

I've got a subscription to Pathfinder :D
And the rest 'o the books up to 4th edition don't interest me, so I'm not buying.
Also, I found I've like Dungeon Crawl Classics well enough I don't buy WotC adventures anymore.

When 4E comes out, my plans are to only get the base 3 books (can't call 'em core, the way WotC is fiddling with the term). I may buy more monster books down the line, but only if the game really rocks my socks.
RavenGraygem
10-19-07, 02:23 AM The Paizo offering do look appealing, once I can get over that starting price. I mean, paying that for a one-off is one thing, but every month just so I can have the full campaign...
Jcannister
10-19-07, 03:31 AM I suggest everyone check out the new Pathfinder AP.

Not only is it a very well written and very interesting adventure package, the artwork is nice (check out Issue 5's cover), the binding quality is fantastic.

It will definitely fill the gap and pick up the torch where the last Dungeon adventure paths left off.

Dungeon adventures may be down and out but certainly not Paizo's contribution.

And as far as I can tell they need very little errata.
Jcannister
10-19-07, 03:43 AM The Paizo offering do look appealing, once I can get over that starting price. I mean, paying that for a one-off is one thing, but every month just so I can have the full campaign...

Dungeon adventure paths... 1 year each path... $13.50(AU) cover price...

I am not seeing the difference. Besides, they contain heaps of campaign material as well, Its more like a whole campaign than just 6 adventures and allows you to make your own adventures. I pay about $20.00 each from paizo (subscription price) and about $10 for postage or about $40 from my local store. It is dearer but it is also a superior product.

If your after masses of adventures I can see how you would have trouble justifying the small hike in price, just remember this has much more detail and flavor than anything they could fit into Dungeon alone.
RavenGraygem
10-19-07, 04:57 PM Ah, I'm in the U.S., so my Dungeon magazines were a bit cheaper than yours; my yearly subscription for the magazine wasn't much higher than the cost of a single Pathfinder book.
Zherog
10-19-07, 05:01 PM Be sure to check out my article in issue 2 of Kobold Quarterly. :D
wordserpent
10-19-07, 05:23 PM I won't be buying any more 3.5 stuff because in a few months those things will be worthless. I like to read books and magazines. I do not like the idea of logging on to a website every time I want to plat a tabletop D&D game. If I wanted to use the internet for gaming, I would play a/an MMORPG.

Paying twenty bucks for a campaign in a near-obsolete rule system is pointless to me because I would have to convert everything into the next edition to use it.

If Paizo continues to publish their own adventures and campaigns in the next edition format I'll buy them, provided they are at a reasonable price. If Paizo, or any other company can produce something useful now, then I'll buy their product.
goldomark
10-19-07, 05:23 PM For 4e I'll just check the new SRD that has been announced.

No need to buy a new set of rules, again. I really prefer fluff books, with a spinkel of crunch.
Zherog
10-19-07, 05:29 PM I won't be buying any more 3.5 stuff because in a few months those things will be worthless. I like to read books and magazines. I do not like the idea of logging on to a website every time I want to plat a tabletop D&D game. If I wanted to use the internet for gaming, I would play a/an MMORPG.

You don't need the internet to play 4e.

Paying twenty bucks for a campaign in a near-obsolete rule system is pointless to me because I would have to convert everything into the next edition to use it.

Or you could continue playing whatever version you're playing now (presumably 3.5). You don't have to convert.
wordserpent
10-19-07, 06:01 PM You don't need the internet to play 4e.

I know that. I am going to buy the Books and if they are better than what we have now. I'll use them. In my opinion, each edition of D&D has been better than the last and I have faith that 4e will be an improvement. I have gotten a lot of mileage out of my 3.5 core books. I am sure that the 4e and 4.5e stuff will be good.

I just hope that Wizards has the good sense not to alienate us non-internet gamers. I'd rather look my fellow players in the face than be focused on a comuter screen.

Or you could continue playing whatever version you're playing now (presumably 3.5). You don't have to convert.

I'll use whatever system I like better. If 4e doesn't meet my needs, I'll have to invent my own game.
Jcannister
10-19-07, 10:15 PM I won't be buying any more 3.5 stuff because in a few months those things will be worthless. I like to read books and magazines. I do not like the idea of logging on to a website every time I want to plat a tabletop D&D game. If I wanted to use the internet for gaming, I would play a/an MMORPG.

Paying twenty bucks for a campaign in a near-obsolete rule system is pointless to me because I would have to convert everything into the next edition to use it.

If Paizo continues to publish their own adventures and campaigns in the next edition format I'll buy them, provided they are at a reasonable price. If Paizo, or any other company can produce something useful now, then I'll buy their product.

I don't think 3.5 stuff will be worthless. Windows vista is out and has been for a while and XP is still the most used. Just because they release a new version doesn't mean you have to play it. In fact with so little source material for it, It's probably going to be dwarfed by 3.5 for quite some time.

I know that even though I will buy the 4e stuff when it comes out, it's going to be a while before I make the switch to 4e from a dm/players point of view. Besides I have a huge backlog of adventures and campaigns that I need to play out.

If you like 3.5e and have a good selection of books, it doesn't matter whether Wotc is up to version 16, play whichever you prefer. No one will think any less of you for playing 3.5e in a 4e world.
ElyasRavenwood
10-20-07, 11:04 AM I am supporting Paizo. I have purchased through my local gaming store the pathfinder products: Pathfinder: burnt offerings, and the players handouts, as well as D0 Hollow’s last hope, D1, Crown of the Kobold king, W1 Conquest of Blood sworn vale, and W2 The seven swords of sin. I have also gotten for myself the recent WoTC module Fortress of the Yuan Ti.
I am guest DMing in a game I normally play in as a PC, to give my friend a break from DMing, and to get the DMing itch out of my system. Our party is roughly 7th level. I had a choice of modules to run (I didn’t have the time to make and adventure from scratch). I compared the WoTC module Fortress of the Yuan Ti to the Paizo module Seven Swords of Sin. Both modules were for 6-7 level characters. In my opinion the module The Seven Swords of Sin was better written, more interesting, novel, and amusing to read. Although I have purchased both the WoTC product (I like the Yuan Ti as villains) and the Paizo product, I have chosen to run the Paizo product.
In my opinion I am finding the Paizo material to be of better quality than the WoTC material currently being produced. However I will give credit where it is due. I just got the Rules Compendium and I am very happy with the product. I think of myself as fairly familiar with the rules, but I don’t have them memorized by paragraph and page number. It is very handy to have all of the rules in one spot so I can refresh my memory. There are also lots of little nuances that I was not aware of and I am now soaking up like a sponge. Finally all of the action types are on one page, and I can sort out Full round actions from Standard actions, from swift actions, from Immediate actions, from Free actions, from Non actions.
From my perspective, albeit a limited one, it seems that WoTC has successfully honked off different segments of its existing customer base. Fair amounts of people were, shall we say, irritated by the discontinuation of the Dungeon and Dragon print magazine. It does seem plausible that the profit margins were getting a little too thin to non-existent. A good friend of mine who works in a magazine that serves a similar niche to Dungeon and Dragon has told me, while the magazine is not un-profitable, it is barley and not what it hopefully could be. It seems allot of living grey hawk fans are upset about their campaign being discontinued and allot of forgotten realms fans are upset about the “spell plague” and the points of light. Further more I hear that the software tools will not be mac-compatable. For me that is a problem. I use the Macintosh platform for professional reasons. As a photographer I find Photoshop runs better on the Mac platform.
It will be interesting to see what happens. During my optimistic moments I am hoping that the game designers will fix problems with the 3.5 game that I did not know were even there and once I examine the new 4.0 system for myself, with my own eyes, book in hand, I might find that “although this is a little different, it works better”.
On the other hand during my pessimistic moments, I worry that the game will be so entirely changed, that I wont even recognize it and it will feel like I am playing a paper version of WoW. I suppose the silver lining to that possibility, is that apart from chips paper soda and some dice, I will not need to spend much more money on this hobby.

I suppose in summation I am neither sold nor excited about 4 edition. I have the rules cleanup I needed with the Rules Compendium. I will purchase the first three books the Players Handbook, Dungeons Masters Guide, and Monsters Manuel. If I am impressed I will buy more 4-edition products. If I am not impressed with the product and I find the rules change too frustrating I will let the 4E sail on without this long time adventurer and his silver pieces.
Anguish2
10-20-07, 12:12 PM Supporting? Not exactly. Buying their products? Definitely. I'm a subscriber to both adventure products, which represents an increase in my spending from my previous subscription to Dungeon only. But I'm not doing it particularly to support the company. I'm doing it because their products are high-quality items that I have use for. If Gamemastery and Pathfinder sucked, I'd not buy them. This is independent and unrelated to anything WotC offers to sell me. I'll probably go 4e around when that's released.
CCS
10-20-07, 12:37 PM Not particularly. Or at least no less than I was amyways.
In modern times I very rarely bought issues of Dragon/Dungeon. Once every great while (as in years apart) I'd pick one up.
Now that they're gone from the magazine racks.....

As for suporting the online version? Count me out. If I only bought a single print issue in any given 2 year period, I just don't see myself paying for a stripped down, dispersed-over-time digital version every month.....
pres_man
10-20-07, 01:14 PM What sold me on the Pathfinder books (at least for the 1st adventure path) is that if you subscribe you get the pdf for free*. This is useful for maps or printing off a page with a foe's stat block (so you don't have to keep switching pages) or handouts or whatever.

*I say free because with the subscription discount and then the cost of shipping it evens out to the normal cost of the book at the store, plus I get the pdf.
Zousha_Omenohu
10-20-07, 02:39 PM I wish I could, but I'm not sure if I can afford to subscribe to it. This was why I never got into Dungeon and Dragon, because I wasn't sure if I could afford to subscribe.
Firevalkyrie
10-20-07, 04:40 PM I'm buying Pathfinder, because it's telling a pretty decent story in the current adventure path. That said, I've grown a little sour on their message boards recently, to the point that I'm having questions about the company leadership, and several comments that they've made in recent months that at least I interpreted (admitting my interpretation may not be perfect) as snarking at/cutting down colleagues. In an industry this small, that's neither smart nor acceptable behavior. I finally stopped reading the Paizo boards entirely because I felt that they were condoning and in some cases encouraging pointlessly childish behavior from their fans, and every time I read the boards, I grew more disenchanted with the company as a whole.

So I'll still continue buying Pathfinder until Rise of the Runelords has run its course; at that point, I'm seriously thinking about re-evaluating my financial support of that company.
Alter_Boy
10-22-07, 08:06 PM Wow. Good posts everyone.

Thanks.
Firestar27
10-24-07, 07:09 PM I don't think 3.5 stuff will be worthless. Windows vista is out and has been for a while and XP is still the most used. Just because they release a new version doesn't mean you have to play it. In fact with so little source material for it, It's probably going to be dwarfed by 3.5 for quite some time.

I know that even though I will buy the 4e stuff when it comes out, it's going to be a while before I make the switch to 4e from a dm/players point of view. Besides I have a huge backlog of adventures and campaigns that I need to play out.

If you like 3.5e and have a good selection of books, it doesn't matter whether Wotc is up to version 16, play whichever you prefer. No one will think any less of you for playing 3.5e in a 4e world.

It will take a while before I switch as well. Unless my group unanimously agrees to switch (and it probably won't because one campaign is very uncore-like characters ((shugenja, beguiler, dread pirate, and a fighter/rogue/what PrC it is that is like a gangster)) and the a player in the other campaign just learned 3.5. This would overload him and he would confuse the editions), any campaigns started in 3.5 will end in 3.5. 4th edition will be new campaigns, and that takes some time to plan, think, and learn the new rules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alter_Boy 10-18-07, 11:31 PM	I'm throwing down the gauntlet. For those of you whining about WotC's cancellation of the paper magazine and how they are running their on-line magazine, pick up Pathfinder. Or Kobold Quarterly. Or some 3rd party publication of equal quality. Show WotC you actually have some conviction. If you moan about DDI and 4th Edition but buy it anyways, your opinions will never mean anything to WotC. You'll prove to them that the most important thing isn't good design, innovative ideas, and fresh plots, but the "100% official content" sticker. Make D&D and RPGs better. Support the best. Just to be clear, I like WotC, DDI, Pathfinder, and Kobold Quarterly.
Stormonu 10-19-07, 02:17 AM	shrug I've got a subscription to Pathfinder :D And the rest 'o the books up to 4th edition don't interest me, so I'm not buying. Also, I found I've like Dungeon Crawl Classics well enough I don't buy WotC adventures anymore. When 4E comes out, my plans are to only get the base 3 books (can't call 'em core, the way WotC is fiddling with the term). I may buy more monster books down the line, but only if the game really rocks my socks.
RavenGraygem 10-19-07, 02:23 AM	The Paizo offering do look appealing, once I can get over that starting price. I mean, paying that for a one-off is one thing, but every month just so I can have the full campaign...
Jcannister 10-19-07, 03:31 AM	I suggest everyone check out the new Pathfinder AP. Not only is it a very well written and very interesting adventure package, the artwork is nice (check out Issue 5's cover), the binding quality is fantastic. It will definitely fill the gap and pick up the torch where the last Dungeon adventure paths left off. Dungeon adventures may be down and out but certainly not Paizo's contribution. And as far as I can tell they need very little errata.
Jcannister 10-19-07, 03:43 AM	The Paizo offering do look appealing, once I can get over that starting price. I mean, paying that for a one-off is one thing, but every month just so I can have the full campaign... Dungeon adventure paths... 1 year each path... $13.50(AU) cover price... I am not seeing the difference. Besides, they contain heaps of campaign material as well, Its more like a whole campaign than just 6 adventures and allows you to make your own adventures. I pay about $20.00 each from paizo (subscription price) and about $10 for postage or about $40 from my local store. It is dearer but it is also a superior product. If your after masses of adventures I can see how you would have trouble justifying the small hike in price, just remember this has much more detail and flavor than anything they could fit into Dungeon alone.
RavenGraygem 10-19-07, 04:57 PM	Ah, I'm in the U.S., so my Dungeon magazines were a bit cheaper than yours; my yearly subscription for the magazine wasn't much higher than the cost of a single Pathfinder book.
Zherog 10-19-07, 05:01 PM	Be sure to check out my article in issue 2 of Kobold Quarterly. :D
wordserpent 10-19-07, 05:23 PM	I won't be buying any more 3.5 stuff because in a few months those things will be worthless. I like to read books and magazines. I do not like the idea of logging on to a website every time I want to plat a tabletop D&D game. If I wanted to use the internet for gaming, I would play a/an MMORPG. Paying twenty bucks for a campaign in a near-obsolete rule system is pointless to me because I would have to convert everything into the next edition to use it. If Paizo continues to publish their own adventures and campaigns in the next edition format I'll buy them, provided they are at a reasonable price. If Paizo, or any other company can produce something useful now, then I'll buy their product.
goldomark 10-19-07, 05:23 PM	For 4e I'll just check the new SRD that has been announced. No need to buy a new set of rules, again. I really prefer fluff books, with a spinkel of crunch.
Zherog 10-19-07, 05:29 PM	I won't be buying any more 3.5 stuff because in a few months those things will be worthless. I like to read books and magazines. I do not like the idea of logging on to a website every time I want to plat a tabletop D&D game. If I wanted to use the internet for gaming, I would play a/an MMORPG. You don't need the internet to play 4e. Paying twenty bucks for a campaign in a near-obsolete rule system is pointless to me because I would have to convert everything into the next edition to use it. Or you could continue playing whatever version you're playing now (presumably 3.5). You don't have to convert.
wordserpent 10-19-07, 06:01 PM	You don't need the internet to play 4e. I know that. I am going to buy the Books and if they are better than what we have now. I'll use them. In my opinion, each edition of D&D has been better than the last and I have faith that 4e will be an improvement. I have gotten a lot of mileage out of my 3.5 core books. I am sure that the 4e and 4.5e stuff will be good. I just hope that Wizards has the good sense not to alienate us non-internet gamers. I'd rather look my fellow players in the face than be focused on a comuter screen. Or you could continue playing whatever version you're playing now (presumably 3.5). You don't have to convert. I'll use whatever system I like better. If 4e doesn't meet my needs, I'll have to invent my own game.
Jcannister 10-19-07, 10:15 PM	I won't be buying any more 3.5 stuff because in a few months those things will be worthless. I like to read books and magazines. I do not like the idea of logging on to a website every time I want to plat a tabletop D&D game. If I wanted to use the internet for gaming, I would play a/an MMORPG. Paying twenty bucks for a campaign in a near-obsolete rule system is pointless to me because I would have to convert everything into the next edition to use it. If Paizo continues to publish their own adventures and campaigns in the next edition format I'll buy them, provided they are at a reasonable price. If Paizo, or any other company can produce something useful now, then I'll buy their product. I don't think 3.5 stuff will be worthless. Windows vista is out and has been for a while and XP is still the most used. Just because they release a new version doesn't mean you have to play it. In fact with so little source material for it, It's probably going to be dwarfed by 3.5 for quite some time. I know that even though I will buy the 4e stuff when it comes out, it's going to be a while before I make the switch to 4e from a dm/players point of view. Besides I have a huge backlog of adventures and campaigns that I need to play out. If you like 3.5e and have a good selection of books, it doesn't matter whether Wotc is up to version 16, play whichever you prefer. No one will think any less of you for playing 3.5e in a 4e world.
ElyasRavenwood 10-20-07, 11:04 AM	I am supporting Paizo. I have purchased through my local gaming store the pathfinder products: Pathfinder: burnt offerings, and the players handouts, as well as D0 Hollow’s last hope, D1, Crown of the Kobold king, W1 Conquest of Blood sworn vale, and W2 The seven swords of sin. I have also gotten for myself the recent WoTC module Fortress of the Yuan Ti. I am guest DMing in a game I normally play in as a PC, to give my friend a break from DMing, and to get the DMing itch out of my system. Our party is roughly 7th level. I had a choice of modules to run (I didn’t have the time to make and adventure from scratch). I compared the WoTC module Fortress of the Yuan Ti to the Paizo module Seven Swords of Sin. Both modules were for 6-7 level characters. In my opinion the module The Seven Swords of Sin was better written, more interesting, novel, and amusing to read. Although I have purchased both the WoTC product (I like the Yuan Ti as villains) and the Paizo product, I have chosen to run the Paizo product. In my opinion I am finding the Paizo material to be of better quality than the WoTC material currently being produced. However I will give credit where it is due. I just got the Rules Compendium and I am very happy with the product. I think of myself as fairly familiar with the rules, but I don’t have them memorized by paragraph and page number. It is very handy to have all of the rules in one spot so I can refresh my memory. There are also lots of little nuances that I was not aware of and I am now soaking up like a sponge. Finally all of the action types are on one page, and I can sort out Full round actions from Standard actions, from swift actions, from Immediate actions, from Free actions, from Non actions. From my perspective, albeit a limited one, it seems that WoTC has successfully honked off different segments of its existing customer base. Fair amounts of people were, shall we say, irritated by the discontinuation of the Dungeon and Dragon print magazine. It does seem plausible that the profit margins were getting a little too thin to non-existent. A good friend of mine who works in a magazine that serves a similar niche to Dungeon and Dragon has told me, while the magazine is not un-profitable, it is barley and not what it hopefully could be. It seems allot of living grey hawk fans are upset about their campaign being discontinued and allot of forgotten realms fans are upset about the “spell plague” and the points of light. Further more I hear that the software tools will not be mac-compatable. For me that is a problem. I use the Macintosh platform for professional reasons. As a photographer I find Photoshop runs better on the Mac platform. It will be interesting to see what happens. During my optimistic moments I am hoping that the game designers will fix problems with the 3.5 game that I did not know were even there and once I examine the new 4.0 system for myself, with my own eyes, book in hand, I might find that “although this is a little different, it works better”. On the other hand during my pessimistic moments, I worry that the game will be so entirely changed, that I wont even recognize it and it will feel like I am playing a paper version of WoW. I suppose the silver lining to that possibility, is that apart from chips paper soda and some dice, I will not need to spend much more money on this hobby. I suppose in summation I am neither sold nor excited about 4 edition. I have the rules cleanup I needed with the Rules Compendium. I will purchase the first three books the Players Handbook, Dungeons Masters Guide, and Monsters Manuel. If I am impressed I will buy more 4-edition products. If I am not impressed with the product and I find the rules change too frustrating I will let the 4E sail on without this long time adventurer and his silver pieces.
Anguish2 10-20-07, 12:12 PM	Supporting? Not exactly. Buying their products? Definitely. I'm a subscriber to both adventure products, which represents an increase in my spending from my previous subscription to Dungeon only. But I'm not doing it particularly to support the company. I'm doing it because their products are high-quality items that I have use for. If Gamemastery and Pathfinder sucked, I'd not buy them. This is independent and unrelated to anything WotC offers to sell me. I'll probably go 4e around when that's released.
CCS 10-20-07, 12:37 PM	Not particularly. Or at least no less than I was amyways. In modern times I very rarely bought issues of Dragon/Dungeon. Once every great while (as in years apart) I'd pick one up. Now that they're gone from the magazine racks..... As for suporting the online version? Count me out. If I only bought a single print issue in any given 2 year period, I just don't see myself paying for a stripped down, dispersed-over-time digital version every month.....
pres_man 10-20-07, 01:14 PM	What sold me on the Pathfinder books (at least for the 1st adventure path) is that if you subscribe you get the pdf for free. This is useful for maps or printing off a page with a foe's stat block (so you don't have to keep switching pages) or handouts or whatever. I say free because with the subscription discount and then the cost of shipping it evens out to the normal cost of the book at the store, plus I get the pdf.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-20-07, 02:39 PM	I wish I could, but I'm not sure if I can afford to subscribe to it. This was why I never got into Dungeon and Dragon, because I wasn't sure if I could afford to subscribe.
Firevalkyrie 10-20-07, 04:40 PM	I'm buying Pathfinder, because it's telling a pretty decent story in the current adventure path. That said, I've grown a little sour on their message boards recently, to the point that I'm having questions about the company leadership, and several comments that they've made in recent months that at least I interpreted (admitting my interpretation may not be perfect) as snarking at/cutting down colleagues. In an industry this small, that's neither smart nor acceptable behavior. I finally stopped reading the Paizo boards entirely because I felt that they were condoning and in some cases encouraging pointlessly childish behavior from their fans, and every time I read the boards, I grew more disenchanted with the company as a whole. So I'll still continue buying Pathfinder until Rise of the Runelords has run its course; at that point, I'm seriously thinking about re-evaluating my financial support of that company.
Alter_Boy 10-22-07, 08:06 PM	Wow. Good posts everyone. Thanks.
Firestar27 10-24-07, 07:09 PM	I don't think 3.5 stuff will be worthless. Windows vista is out and has been for a while and XP is still the most used. Just because they release a new version doesn't mean you have to play it. In fact with so little source material for it, It's probably going to be dwarfed by 3.5 for quite some time. I know that even though I will buy the 4e stuff when it comes out, it's going to be a while before I make the switch to 4e from a dm/players point of view. Besides I have a huge backlog of adventures and campaigns that I need to play out. If you like 3.5e and have a good selection of books, it doesn't matter whether Wotc is up to version 16, play whichever you prefer. No one will think any less of you for playing 3.5e in a 4e world. It will take a while before I switch as well. Unless my group unanimously agrees to switch (and it probably won't because one campaign is very uncore-like characters ((shugenja, beguiler, dread pirate, and a fighter/rogue/what PrC it is that is like a gangster)) and the a player in the other campaign just learned 3.5. This would overload him and he would confuse the editions), any campaigns started in 3.5 will end in 3.5. 4th edition will be new campaigns, and that takes some time to plan, think, and learn the new rules.