Arena Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arena Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tyreth
09-23-06, 12:21 AM Hi,

A few friends and I have started to make characters that we then fight in an arena. We're finding some things work, and some things don't.

Are there any rules, official or otherwise, for fighting against other people in an arena (ie, no NPC's)? Containing ideas of things to ban, char creation, etc.

Thanks
petin
09-23-06, 05:38 AM There aren't any real rules for it, but I can give you some tips I picked up from playing in one about a month ago.

Random areas to fight in. It makes it so the rogue is just as powerful as the fighter.
Set a gold price that you can spend. No one use items. Have fun.

The final round in our arena was on a mountain area with a large gaping crack. Psionist vs. Ninja. It ended by the Ninja being frozen in time and getting beat by a stick with the Psionist who had a very low poisoned strength score.
frasmage
09-23-06, 08:52 AM There were some rules in CW for fighting in an arena and winning the crowd's favor.

I would sugest looking into that
Cthulhu3125
09-23-06, 10:05 AM In my recent experience...

Whilst you might not want to ban *all* save-or-die spells, the cleric spell implosion seems to be overpowered in PvP... whilst I may be wrong, death ward protects against "all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects", but implosion is simply an instantaneous duration evocation, so I don't think death ward protects against it.

Yeah, that can really spoil the game.

Also consider banning Mordie's Disjunction, just because it is rather beardy in an arena setting.
frasmage
09-23-06, 10:12 AM well, actually, it all depends on the context of his setting. If he wants a fighting arena, its more likely that all spells will be banned. On the other hand if they have a mage duel it will be entirely different.

It is also possible they want non-lethal battles (which makes stuff like implosion a no-no) in which case they would need nonlethal weapons and spells
Milo HoBo
09-23-06, 04:20 PM I've heard of rules (I think in UA) for facing. Meaning you don't have to flank in order to get Sneak Attack, you just have to be behind the target. It makes one on one alot easier for a Rogue.

If you don't want that rule, then a Rogue must rely on Feint and Improved Feint to get 1 Sneak Attack per round in a one on one combat.
Otto the Bugbear
09-23-06, 07:51 PM I've tried these rules:

The Delver Bash Rules

Basics
The only references that will be allowed are the D&D 3rd Edition Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG), and the Player's Handbook (PHB). Nothing else is authorized. One big change from previous editions is that rather than having one pool of points to buy abilities, levels and gear, you'll have 2 pools (Experience Points and Gold Pieces).
1st - Experience Points (XP) - You have 70,000 with which to build your character's abilities, class(es), level and hit points.

Ability - Price
11 - 100 xp
12 - 500 xp
13 - 550 xp
14 - 1000 xp
15 - 1100 xp
16 - 1500 xp
17 - 1650 xp
18 - 2000 xp
19 - 3000 xp
20 - 5000 xp
All abilities start at a base of 10. Any race may buy a 20 in any ability

2nd - Class, Level, Hit Points - Use any remaining XPs to buy your level and maximum hit points, if you'd like
· Attribute enhancements from level will be added as normal, just note which abilities have been adjusted this way.
· Wizards do not gain the scribe scroll feat. Instead, they may choose any one metamagical feat from the PHB.
· No character can have a familiar, war horse, animal companion, followers or any other form of assistance.
· Hit points are calculated at 75% of maximum hit points (including all bonuses from Constitution) rounding up, unless you wish to buy maximum hit points (cost = 2000 XP)
· Extra classes, beyond the 3rd one, will cost 1,000 XP/class; this cost is to smooth out the possible XP penalty from class level spread, and will be charged for more than 3 classes regardless of actual spread, and regardless of a race's preferred class.
· Only the races in the PHB are allowed and all racial modifications will be used, which means that elves will finally be able to add +2 to their dexterity.

3rd - Equipment - You have 750,000 gold pieces with which to equip your character
· Spend these coins by buying magical and/or non-magical items out of the DMG and PHB
· Nothing is free! Yes, you even have to purchase your non-magical gear

4th - Follow the Design Time Rules - these are regulations, clarifications, and Delver Bash specific issues/items to be aware of while building your character
· Potion Belt/Wand Belt/Scroll Belt (cost = 100 GP each) - each will hold 10 such items and allow you to ready an item once per round as a free action that draws no AoO. A Maximum of 1 each of these items may be purchased
· Vorpal Gorget (cost = 5,000 GP) - a non-slot specific item protects the wearer from the effects of any weapon with the Vorpal modification.
· Boots of Springing and Striding (cost = 6,000 GP) - overrides the price listed in the DMG (per the WOTC errata).
· Negative Energy Protection pants (cost = 50,000 GP) - they absorb the first 50 levels of negative energy spells or effects directed at the caster, and only one pair may be purchased. These are non-slotted items.
· The keen weapon enhancement may also be applied to piercing weapons, as per the spell.
· Any spell on a scroll may be modified as desired by metamagic feats, and scribed at any caster level from the minimum required to cast it up to 12th level
· Spells on Scrolls (cost = 25 GP x caster level x total spell level) - remember no spell of greater than 6th level, regardless of feats
· A potion, wand or scroll can store any spell according to that item's description; for gold piece costs see the DMG under Creating Potions, Wands and Scrolls
· You cannot add a new ability to a listed magic item. Exception: See "6th - Magic Items" below.

5th - Follow the Bash Rules - These are clarifications, reminders, prohibitions, and Delver Bash specific issues to follow during play; don't violate them during design time either!
· As a reminder, please reference the list on pg. 176 of the DMG, Limit on Magic Items Worn. We encountered several people with multiple amulets/necklaces/scarabs, or cloaks/mantles.
· Pg. 177, table 8-1, Bonuses From Magic, should also be referenced to ensure you do not have multiples of the same bonuses stacking for your AC or ‘To Hit’ bonus.
· List the DCs for spells, scrolls, wands, etc. to speed the process along.
· Please be familiar with your character classes and abilities. We as bash masters will be using the WotC FAQ from their website to arbitrate any disputes it may cover.
· All spells, which center on you and have an "emanation" area of effect, emanate from your character's waist.
· The Jump spell gives a competence bonus to jump checks, as does any item that mimics this spell.
· You may not possess more than 2 of the same magical item (except potions, where the limit is 5)
· No single scroll may have more than 4 spells on it
· You may not have more than 10 of the same spell from scrolls (this includes metamagically altered spells also)
· You may buy less than multiples of 50 of projectile ammunition at a proportional cost
· You may buy a wand with only 25 charges at half the full, listed (or calculated) price.
· No dancing weapon enhancements, renaissance, modern era, futuristic or intelligent weapons
· No Daern's Instant Fortress, Eversmoking Bottles, artifacts or cursed items
· Only 2 Ioun stones can be active at any one time
· No tower shields or absorbing shields
· Portable holes are banned, but Bags of Holding, Heward's Handy Haversacks and Quivers of Ehlonna are allowed, although placing one of these into the other has no effect other than to have one inside the other.
· There is no access to other planes
· No prestige classes are allowed
· The only races allowed are those found in the PHB
· No wishes are allowed regardless of source
· No books, librams, tomes, decks, etc.
· There shall be no sundering, disarming or picking of pockets
· Only targeted spells can be absorbed by absorption items
· Intelligence enhancing items will not give extra skill points
· No spells, from any source, of greater than 6th level; No spells modified to greater than 6th level spell slot
· Counter tumbling (from Sword and Fist) will be used. The tumbler must beat the defender's check
· Nothing can fight for you, i.e. no magical or non-magical animals or monsters, and no items such as figurines, ropes, nets, etc.
· Repulsion, Magic Jar and all forms of Invisibility are explicitly banned. Transmute Rock to Mud is *no longer* banned.
· No items, spells, or other dweomers may be in effect before play starts - this means, you must put your Ioun Stones up, and draw your weapon(s) on your initiative; Rings of Wizardry, however, will allow a wizard to memorize additional spells before play starts
· No hiding in an opponent's unbroken line of sight, so use our bash environment to your advantage
· Since the Monster Manual is not an authorized reference, the Druid's Wild Shape ability, Polymorph Self and Polymorph Other are essentially useless
· The Cube of Force's charge cost will be charged per round, not per minute.
· The duration of the Bead of Karma from a Necklace of Prayer Beads has been reduced to rounds instead of minutes.
6th - Magic Items: You now have more freedom with magic items. You can make the following modifications to your chosen tools of destruction:
· Swap item slots: Item cost x 1.2
This allows you to use Vests of Intellect, Boots of Displacement, a Helmet of Resistance, or any other miscellaneous magic item you want to move around to make room for another one. This also includes rings, which you can move to a non-finger slot. You cannot, however, use this with wands, scrolls, staves, or any other non-miscellaneous or non-ring item. This means no boots with 50 Haste spells in them.
Example: Bracers of Deflection +5 would cost 60,000gp (50,000 times 1.2)
· Stacked items: Total item cost x 1.5
This allows you to have those great Amulets of Wisdom +6/Natural Armor +5 all in one neat, expensive little package. This modification follows the same restrictions as swapping items in regards to which items are eligible for stacking.
Example: Bracers of Deflection +5/Armor +5 would cost 165,000gp (1.5 times the total of 60,000 (for swapping the Ring of Deflection to Bracers of Deflection) and 50,000 (the cost of the Bracers of Armor))
· Un-slotting items: Total item cost x 2.5
Have you ever wanted a Pocket-Hanky of Displacement? How about a Gravy Boat of Spell Storing? Now is your chance! Any item, which occupies a slot per the table on pg. 176 of the DMG, can be moved to an innocuous little knick-knack seated comfortably in your hip pocket. Like the previous two options, this can only be used with miscellaneous magic items and rings.
Example: Pocket Hanky of Major Displacement would cost 125,000gp (50,000 times 2.5)
· All of these modifications stack
Although you could take the Bracers of Deflection +5/Armor +5 from the previous example and tuck it into your pocket as a hanky, the cost is astronomical. The Pocket Hanky of Deflection +5/Armor +5 would cost a whopping 412,500gp!! (2.5 times the total for the Bracers)
7th - Do your Math! - Have your buddy help with the tough addition
· Sum up all your expenses, and make sure they don't exceed their respective pool: 70,000 XP and 750,000 GP
· Calculate and adjust all of your attack bonuses, saving throws, hit points and armor class; keep the math nearby to justify your numbers when we need to look at it.
· Calculate your armor class if denied Dexterity, denied Armor (ie, vs. Brilliant Energy), and against touch attacks.
· When you are finished, locate one of the Bash Masters and have them check your character sheet for accuracy.
· For conformity, and to get the Delver Bash underway in a timely manner, use the Official Delver Bash character sheet located on the website or available from a Bash Master before the Delver Bash begins.

These are from... 2002, but a Google search for delver bash turned up nothing with more recent rules. This means that there may be some rules that have to be changed, but that should be pretty easy to do.

Have fun.

Cheers

Otto :)
Tyreth
09-23-06, 08:16 PM Thanks for the ideas. In our arena we're using core/srd rules, including prestige classes. We want mages and other spellcasters to be useful too.

Death magic has produced a problem. Another problem was when we played level 16 characters. Two of the four players in the arena had anti-magic zones. Given that it can't be dispelled, and we didn't have once off items to get mord's disjunction, this meant spellcasters could not do a thing. So I'm thinking rules should include:

* No once offs (what do you think of wands/staves?)
* No anti magic
* No save or die type spells
* No dominations (I managed to dominate the two remaining players, which is basically game over)
Cthulhu3125
09-23-06, 08:57 PM Thanks for the ideas. In our arena we're using core/srd rules, including prestige classes. We want mages and other spellcasters to be useful too.

Death magic has produced a problem. Another problem was when we played level 16 characters. Two of the four players in the arena had anti-magic zones. Given that it can't be dispelled, and we didn't have once off items to get mord's disjunction, this meant spellcasters could not do a thing. So I'm thinking rules should include:

* No once offs (what do you think of wands/staves?)
* No anti magic
* No save or die type spells
* No dominations (I managed to dominate the two remaining players, which is basically game over)

It's probably best not to cripple the spellcasters too much by removing specific spells, otherwise they become less powerful than the other classes.

Keep the save-or-dies. Everyone should have death ward effects on them if they have any sense, or at least very high saves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tyreth 09-23-06, 12:21 AM	Hi, A few friends and I have started to make characters that we then fight in an arena. We're finding some things work, and some things don't. Are there any rules, official or otherwise, for fighting against other people in an arena (ie, no NPC's)? Containing ideas of things to ban, char creation, etc. Thanks
petin 09-23-06, 05:38 AM	There aren't any real rules for it, but I can give you some tips I picked up from playing in one about a month ago. Random areas to fight in. It makes it so the rogue is just as powerful as the fighter. Set a gold price that you can spend. No one use items. Have fun. The final round in our arena was on a mountain area with a large gaping crack. Psionist vs. Ninja. It ended by the Ninja being frozen in time and getting beat by a stick with the Psionist who had a very low poisoned strength score.
frasmage 09-23-06, 08:52 AM	There were some rules in CW for fighting in an arena and winning the crowd's favor. I would sugest looking into that
Cthulhu3125 09-23-06, 10:05 AM	In my recent experience... Whilst you might not want to ban all save-or-die spells, the cleric spell implosion seems to be overpowered in PvP... whilst I may be wrong, death ward protects against "all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects", but implosion is simply an instantaneous duration evocation, so I don't think death ward protects against it. Yeah, that can really spoil the game. Also consider banning Mordie's Disjunction, just because it is rather beardy in an arena setting.
frasmage 09-23-06, 10:12 AM	well, actually, it all depends on the context of his setting. If he wants a fighting arena, its more likely that all spells will be banned. On the other hand if they have a mage duel it will be entirely different. It is also possible they want non-lethal battles (which makes stuff like implosion a no-no) in which case they would need nonlethal weapons and spells
Milo HoBo 09-23-06, 04:20 PM	I've heard of rules (I think in UA) for facing. Meaning you don't have to flank in order to get Sneak Attack, you just have to be behind the target. It makes one on one alot easier for a Rogue. If you don't want that rule, then a Rogue must rely on Feint and Improved Feint to get 1 Sneak Attack per round in a one on one combat.
Otto the Bugbear 09-23-06, 07:51 PM	I've tried these rules: The Delver Bash Rules Basics The only references that will be allowed are the D&D 3rd Edition Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG), and the Player's Handbook (PHB). Nothing else is authorized. One big change from previous editions is that rather than having one pool of points to buy abilities, levels and gear, you'll have 2 pools (Experience Points and Gold Pieces). 1st - Experience Points (XP) - You have 70,000 with which to build your character's abilities, class(es), level and hit points. Ability - Price 11 - 100 xp 12 - 500 xp 13 - 550 xp 14 - 1000 xp 15 - 1100 xp 16 - 1500 xp 17 - 1650 xp 18 - 2000 xp 19 - 3000 xp 20 - 5000 xp All abilities start at a base of 10. Any race may buy a 20 in any ability 2nd - Class, Level, Hit Points - Use any remaining XPs to buy your level and maximum hit points, if you'd like · Attribute enhancements from level will be added as normal, just note which abilities have been adjusted this way. · Wizards do not gain the scribe scroll feat. Instead, they may choose any one metamagical feat from the PHB. · No character can have a familiar, war horse, animal companion, followers or any other form of assistance. · Hit points are calculated at 75% of maximum hit points (including all bonuses from Constitution) rounding up, unless you wish to buy maximum hit points (cost = 2000 XP) · Extra classes, beyond the 3rd one, will cost 1,000 XP/class; this cost is to smooth out the possible XP penalty from class level spread, and will be charged for more than 3 classes regardless of actual spread, and regardless of a race's preferred class. · Only the races in the PHB are allowed and all racial modifications will be used, which means that elves will finally be able to add +2 to their dexterity. 3rd - Equipment - You have 750,000 gold pieces with which to equip your character · Spend these coins by buying magical and/or non-magical items out of the DMG and PHB · Nothing is free! Yes, you even have to purchase your non-magical gear 4th - Follow the Design Time Rules - these are regulations, clarifications, and Delver Bash specific issues/items to be aware of while building your character · Potion Belt/Wand Belt/Scroll Belt (cost = 100 GP each) - each will hold 10 such items and allow you to ready an item once per round as a free action that draws no AoO. A Maximum of 1 each of these items may be purchased · Vorpal Gorget (cost = 5,000 GP) - a non-slot specific item protects the wearer from the effects of any weapon with the Vorpal modification. · Boots of Springing and Striding (cost = 6,000 GP) - overrides the price listed in the DMG (per the WOTC errata). · Negative Energy Protection pants (cost = 50,000 GP) - they absorb the first 50 levels of negative energy spells or effects directed at the caster, and only one pair may be purchased. These are non-slotted items. · The keen weapon enhancement may also be applied to piercing weapons, as per the spell. · Any spell on a scroll may be modified as desired by metamagic feats, and scribed at any caster level from the minimum required to cast it up to 12th level · Spells on Scrolls (cost = 25 GP x caster level x total spell level) - remember no spell of greater than 6th level, regardless of feats · A potion, wand or scroll can store any spell according to that item's description; for gold piece costs see the DMG under Creating Potions, Wands and Scrolls · You cannot add a new ability to a listed magic item. Exception: See "6th - Magic Items" below. 5th - Follow the Bash Rules - These are clarifications, reminders, prohibitions, and Delver Bash specific issues to follow during play; don't violate them during design time either! · As a reminder, please reference the list on pg. 176 of the DMG, Limit on Magic Items Worn. We encountered several people with multiple amulets/necklaces/scarabs, or cloaks/mantles. · Pg. 177, table 8-1, Bonuses From Magic, should also be referenced to ensure you do not have multiples of the same bonuses stacking for your AC or ‘To Hit’ bonus. · List the DCs for spells, scrolls, wands, etc. to speed the process along. · Please be familiar with your character classes and abilities. We as bash masters will be using the WotC FAQ from their website to arbitrate any disputes it may cover. · All spells, which center on you and have an "emanation" area of effect, emanate from your character's waist. · The Jump spell gives a competence bonus to jump checks, as does any item that mimics this spell. · You may not possess more than 2 of the same magical item (except potions, where the limit is 5) · No single scroll may have more than 4 spells on it · You may not have more than 10 of the same spell from scrolls (this includes metamagically altered spells also) · You may buy less than multiples of 50 of projectile ammunition at a proportional cost · You may buy a wand with only 25 charges at half the full, listed (or calculated) price. · No dancing weapon enhancements, renaissance, modern era, futuristic or intelligent weapons · No Daern's Instant Fortress, Eversmoking Bottles, artifacts or cursed items · Only 2 Ioun stones can be active at any one time · No tower shields or absorbing shields · Portable holes are banned, but Bags of Holding, Heward's Handy Haversacks and Quivers of Ehlonna are allowed, although placing one of these into the other has no effect other than to have one inside the other. · There is no access to other planes · No prestige classes are allowed · The only races allowed are those found in the PHB · No wishes are allowed regardless of source · No books, librams, tomes, decks, etc. · There shall be no sundering, disarming or picking of pockets · Only targeted spells can be absorbed by absorption items · Intelligence enhancing items will not give extra skill points · No spells, from any source, of greater than 6th level; No spells modified to greater than 6th level spell slot · Counter tumbling (from Sword and Fist) will be used. The tumbler must beat the defender's check · Nothing can fight for you, i.e. no magical or non-magical animals or monsters, and no items such as figurines, ropes, nets, etc. · Repulsion, Magic Jar and all forms of Invisibility are explicitly banned. Transmute Rock to Mud is no longer banned. · No items, spells, or other dweomers may be in effect before play starts - this means, you must put your Ioun Stones up, and draw your weapon(s) on your initiative; Rings of Wizardry, however, will allow a wizard to memorize additional spells before play starts · No hiding in an opponent's unbroken line of sight, so use our bash environment to your advantage · Since the Monster Manual is not an authorized reference, the Druid's Wild Shape ability, Polymorph Self and Polymorph Other are essentially useless · The Cube of Force's charge cost will be charged per round, not per minute. · The duration of the Bead of Karma from a Necklace of Prayer Beads has been reduced to rounds instead of minutes. 6th - Magic Items: You now have more freedom with magic items. You can make the following modifications to your chosen tools of destruction: · Swap item slots: Item cost x 1.2 This allows you to use Vests of Intellect, Boots of Displacement, a Helmet of Resistance, or any other miscellaneous magic item you want to move around to make room for another one. This also includes rings, which you can move to a non-finger slot. You cannot, however, use this with wands, scrolls, staves, or any other non-miscellaneous or non-ring item. This means no boots with 50 Haste spells in them. Example: Bracers of Deflection +5 would cost 60,000gp (50,000 times 1.2) · Stacked items: Total item cost x 1.5 This allows you to have those great Amulets of Wisdom +6/Natural Armor +5 all in one neat, expensive little package. This modification follows the same restrictions as swapping items in regards to which items are eligible for stacking. Example: Bracers of Deflection +5/Armor +5 would cost 165,000gp (1.5 times the total of 60,000 (for swapping the Ring of Deflection to Bracers of Deflection) and 50,000 (the cost of the Bracers of Armor)) · Un-slotting items: Total item cost x 2.5 Have you ever wanted a Pocket-Hanky of Displacement? How about a Gravy Boat of Spell Storing? Now is your chance! Any item, which occupies a slot per the table on pg. 176 of the DMG, can be moved to an innocuous little knick-knack seated comfortably in your hip pocket. Like the previous two options, this can only be used with miscellaneous magic items and rings. Example: Pocket Hanky of Major Displacement would cost 125,000gp (50,000 times 2.5) · All of these modifications stack Although you could take the Bracers of Deflection +5/Armor +5 from the previous example and tuck it into your pocket as a hanky, the cost is astronomical. The Pocket Hanky of Deflection +5/Armor +5 would cost a whopping 412,500gp!! (2.5 times the total for the Bracers) 7th - Do your Math! - Have your buddy help with the tough addition · Sum up all your expenses, and make sure they don't exceed their respective pool: 70,000 XP and 750,000 GP · Calculate and adjust all of your attack bonuses, saving throws, hit points and armor class; keep the math nearby to justify your numbers when we need to look at it. · Calculate your armor class if denied Dexterity, denied Armor (ie, vs. Brilliant Energy), and against touch attacks. · When you are finished, locate one of the Bash Masters and have them check your character sheet for accuracy. · For conformity, and to get the Delver Bash underway in a timely manner, use the Official Delver Bash character sheet located on the website or available from a Bash Master before the Delver Bash begins. These are from... 2002, but a Google search for delver bash turned up nothing with more recent rules. This means that there may be some rules that have to be changed, but that should be pretty easy to do. Have fun. Cheers Otto :)
Tyreth 09-23-06, 08:16 PM	Thanks for the ideas. In our arena we're using core/srd rules, including prestige classes. We want mages and other spellcasters to be useful too. Death magic has produced a problem. Another problem was when we played level 16 characters. Two of the four players in the arena had anti-magic zones. Given that it can't be dispelled, and we didn't have once off items to get mord's disjunction, this meant spellcasters could not do a thing. So I'm thinking rules should include: * No once offs (what do you think of wands/staves?) * No anti magic * No save or die type spells * No dominations (I managed to dominate the two remaining players, which is basically game over)
Cthulhu3125 09-23-06, 08:57 PM	Thanks for the ideas. In our arena we're using core/srd rules, including prestige classes. We want mages and other spellcasters to be useful too. Death magic has produced a problem. Another problem was when we played level 16 characters. Two of the four players in the arena had anti-magic zones. Given that it can't be dispelled, and we didn't have once off items to get mord's disjunction, this meant spellcasters could not do a thing. So I'm thinking rules should include: * No once offs (what do you think of wands/staves?) * No anti magic * No save or die type spells * No dominations (I managed to dominate the two remaining players, which is basically game over) It's probably best not to cripple the spellcasters too much by removing specific spells, otherwise they become less powerful than the other classes. Keep the save-or-dies. Everyone should have death ward effects on them if they have any sense, or at least very high saves.