Armor as Damage reduction instead of a bonus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor as Damage reduction instead of a bonus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NecroticBanana
11-19-07, 07:43 PM i was recently reading an old issue of Dungeon, the one with the original shadow chasers mini-game in it, and i saw that they do armor as damage reduction, instead of an overall boost. I like this idea, i wonder why it was never widely used? maybe it differed too far away fromt he standard D20 rules? what do you guys think?
Vva70
11-19-07, 08:43 PM Frankly, in the D&D game model, armor as a hit penalty is much easier to balance across multiple HP ranges, weapon damage ranges, armor types, etc. It can be difficult to find a position where damage reduction is significant without being too powerful. It also causes the problem of affecting small hits more than large ones (consider that against DR 3, someone doing 2d6+8 damage will be hindered but not neutered, and then think of someone doing 1d6-2).

Also, the armor as hit penalty model is not terribly unrealistic for most armor types. Consider how armor actually functions in real life. Full plate doesn't "make the spear do less damage;" it either deflects the spear or not. Granted that's a bit of an oversimplification, but the D20 combat system is ultimately an abstraction anyway. I suspect one of the major reasons why people tend to think of armor as DR is that so many CRPGs use that model.

That said, if you want an armor as DR model, there's one that WotC released for 3.5 in Unearthed Arcana, also available in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm).
Tanel
11-19-07, 09:25 PM Frankly, in the D&D game model, armor as a hit penalty is much easier to balance across multiple HP ranges, weapon damage ranges, armor types, etc. It can be difficult to find a position where damage reduction is significant without being too powerful. It also causes the problem of affecting small hits more than large ones (consider that against DR 3, someone doing 2d6+8 damage will be hindered but not neutered, and then think of someone doing 1d6-2).

Also, the armor as hit penalty model is not terribly unrealistic for most armor types. Consider how armor actually functions in real life. Full plate doesn't "make the spear do less damage;" it either deflects the spear or not. Granted that's a bit of an oversimplification, but the D20 combat system is ultimately an abstraction anyway. I suspect one of the major reasons why people tend to think of armor as DR is that so many CRPGs use that model.

That said, if you want an armor as DR model, there's one that WotC released for 3.5 in Unearthed Arcana, also available in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm).

I agree with the first part: In the Big Picture the DR affect would not be vary balanced.

However, I think the second part would be contingent on the type of weapon dealing the damage. A suit of plate mail would deflect a spear and sword well, but getting belted by a warhammer or mace would be extreemly unpleasant. One of the Optional Rules from 2nd Ed. was having different AC vs. Weapon Type for this more 'realistic' feel. Of course, there are problems with this as well.

Myself: I prefer the AC vs. To Hit method of armor instead of DR. The Save Defense in SW: Saga is kind of nice, but I think it's more fun to be able to keep adding to my character and saying things like, "That troll will need to roll an 18 or better to hit me now!!!" >=)
runestar
11-19-07, 09:41 PM like this idea, i wonder why it was never widely used? maybe it differed too far away fromt he standard D20 rules? what do you guys think?

Why indeed...

Armor as DR Isn't Worth the Work (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/armorasdamagereduction.html)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NecroticBanana 11-19-07, 07:43 PM	i was recently reading an old issue of Dungeon, the one with the original shadow chasers mini-game in it, and i saw that they do armor as damage reduction, instead of an overall boost. I like this idea, i wonder why it was never widely used? maybe it differed too far away fromt he standard D20 rules? what do you guys think?
Vva70 11-19-07, 08:43 PM	Frankly, in the D&D game model, armor as a hit penalty is much easier to balance across multiple HP ranges, weapon damage ranges, armor types, etc. It can be difficult to find a position where damage reduction is significant without being too powerful. It also causes the problem of affecting small hits more than large ones (consider that against DR 3, someone doing 2d6+8 damage will be hindered but not neutered, and then think of someone doing 1d6-2). Also, the armor as hit penalty model is not terribly unrealistic for most armor types. Consider how armor actually functions in real life. Full plate doesn't "make the spear do less damage;" it either deflects the spear or not. Granted that's a bit of an oversimplification, but the D20 combat system is ultimately an abstraction anyway. I suspect one of the major reasons why people tend to think of armor as DR is that so many CRPGs use that model. That said, if you want an armor as DR model, there's one that WotC released for 3.5 in Unearthed Arcana, also available in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm).
Tanel 11-19-07, 09:25 PM	Frankly, in the D&D game model, armor as a hit penalty is much easier to balance across multiple HP ranges, weapon damage ranges, armor types, etc. It can be difficult to find a position where damage reduction is significant without being too powerful. It also causes the problem of affecting small hits more than large ones (consider that against DR 3, someone doing 2d6+8 damage will be hindered but not neutered, and then think of someone doing 1d6-2). Also, the armor as hit penalty model is not terribly unrealistic for most armor types. Consider how armor actually functions in real life. Full plate doesn't "make the spear do less damage;" it either deflects the spear or not. Granted that's a bit of an oversimplification, but the D20 combat system is ultimately an abstraction anyway. I suspect one of the major reasons why people tend to think of armor as DR is that so many CRPGs use that model. That said, if you want an armor as DR model, there's one that WotC released for 3.5 in Unearthed Arcana, also available in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm). I agree with the first part: In the Big Picture the DR affect would not be vary balanced. However, I think the second part would be contingent on the type of weapon dealing the damage. A suit of plate mail would deflect a spear and sword well, but getting belted by a warhammer or mace would be extreemly unpleasant. One of the Optional Rules from 2nd Ed. was having different AC vs. Weapon Type for this more 'realistic' feel. Of course, there are problems with this as well. Myself: I prefer the AC vs. To Hit method of armor instead of DR. The Save Defense in SW: Saga is kind of nice, but I think it's more fun to be able to keep adding to my character and saying things like, "That troll will need to roll an 18 or better to hit me now!!!" >=)
runestar 11-19-07, 09:41 PM	like this idea, i wonder why it was never widely used? maybe it differed too far away fromt he standard D20 rules? what do you guys think? Why indeed... Armor as DR Isn't Worth the Work (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/armorasdamagereduction.html)