Armor Spikes as enchated weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor Spikes as enchated weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DM Aruthiat
06-14-05, 01:37 AM Im not sure where to ask this question, so Ill just be posting it here on the general boards. Can armor spikes be enchanted as standard weapons are?
Prgrmr@wrk
06-14-05, 02:26 AM Short Answer: Yes.

Long Answer: Everything is exactly the same.
Armor spikes count as only one weapon, no matter the size of the armor, unless the DM decides to be generous, and lets you "wield" the spikes on each limb seperately. If he does, each limb would be an extra weapon to be enchanted seperately.
Also, magic spikes are enchanted completely seperately from the armor, just in case somebody isn't sure. So you can have a +3 Full Plate with +1 flaming spikes, and you pay the costs seperately (in this case 9000gp armor + 8000gp weapons).
DM Aruthiat
06-14-05, 03:21 AM Ugh.Wouldnt want to lose that armor.

Another quick question, does the same apply for shields and their spikes or what? Can a shield have offensive and defensive enchantements simotamelsy? (spelling)

Thanks btw.
Prgrmr@wrk
06-14-05, 03:38 AM Yes, shield spikes can be enchanted exactly the same as armor spikes.
Just think of spikes as a seperate (magical) dagger sticking out of the shield or armor in question.
Greyman
06-14-05, 03:45 AM Yes. You can simultaneously enhance a shield's offensive and defensive capabilities. It does not even need to have spikes if it is capable of being used for a sheild bash attack.Shields: Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses. Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a bash. The bashing special ability, however, does grant a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls (see the special ability description).

A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC.
DM Aruthiat
06-14-05, 03:59 PM Well, what happens when you use a bashing shield with the bashing ability and seperate offensive enhancements, like an extra +3? What then?
Prgrmr@wrk
06-14-05, 04:18 PM From what the SRD says (as quoted by Greyman), the bashing ability is quite stupid and pointless. It's exactly the same benefit as just getting a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, but it will end up costing more than just getting a +1 enhancement to the offense of the shield. I'd say they stack, but that you'd be stupid to pay for bashing.

On a related note, when they say "added to the cost of the shield and it's enhancement bonus" I assume they mean calculate the cost of the shield defense and shield offense seperately, instead of combining the enhancement modifiers and calculating that way.

EG: +2 (def) / +2 (off) = 2*2*1000gp + 2*2*2000gp
NOT
+2 (def) / +2 (off) = 4*4*1000gp

Can anyone back me up on this, because the second way would be retarded, but the wording isn't completely clear to me.
DM Aruthiat
06-14-05, 05:35 PM Right, I would think the costs would be seperate, becasue combining would either make the "shield" too expensive or too cheap.Thanks.
Greyman
06-14-05, 07:45 PM Well, what happens when you use a bashing shield with the bashing ability and seperate offensive enhancements, like an extra +3? What then?The +1 enhancement to attack and damage from Bashing does not stack with any normal weapon enhancement. But the increased damage roll still applies.
From what the SRD says (as quoted by Greyman), the bashing ability is quite stupid and pointless. It's exactly the same benefit as just getting a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, but it will end up costing more than just getting a +1 enhancement to the offense of the shield. I'd say they stack, but that you'd be stupid to pay for bashing.
It is not exactly the same thing. The Bashing sheild ability also let's you shield count as two sizes larger and thus deals a greater amount of damage than a mere weapon enhancement. A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. (Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.)And so: A medium +3-weapon light shield does 1d3+3+(Str/2) points of damage on a bash. A medium +2 bashing light shield does 1d6+1+(Str/2) points of damage on a bash. A medium +2 bashing +3-weapon light shield does 1d6+3+(Str/2) points of damage.
Greyman
06-14-05, 08:18 PM On a related note, when they say "added to the cost of the shield and it's enhancement bonus" I assume they mean calculate the cost of the shield defense and shield offense seperately, instead of combining the enhancement modifiers and calculating that way.

EG: +2 (def) / +2 (off) = 2*2*1000gp + 2*2*2000gp
NOT
+2 (def) / +2 (off) = 4*4*1000gp

Can anyone back me up on this, because the second way would be retarded, but the wording isn't completely clear to me.You should treat them as double weapons and enhance each aspect seperately. The same principle applies enhancing spiked armor.

This means that you must give a shield at least a +1 weapon enhancement bonus before you can add any weapon abilities (note that the bashing ability does not count for this purpose). It also means that you can have up to +10 worth of shield enhancements and up to +10 total worth of weapon enhancements on the same shield, with a maximum +5 enhancement bonus applied to both offense and defense; just as you can have upto +10 total worth of weapon enhancements, and upto a +5 enhancement bonus, on each end of a double weapon on each.

Cheesy examples: a +5 full plate with +5 defending spikes, or a +5 animated ghost-touch bashing heavy shield with +5 dancing defending weapon enancements.

PS: I'd rule that in order to receive the benefit of the defending weapon property you must be wielding the spiked armor or shield as a weapon, taking two-weapon fighting penalties, (or have a dancing weapon enhancement activated).
DM Aruthiat
06-14-05, 11:41 PM That seems to make sense.Remember spikes...this ought to be good. Thanks!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM Aruthiat 06-14-05, 01:37 AM	Im not sure where to ask this question, so Ill just be posting it here on the general boards. Can armor spikes be enchanted as standard weapons are?
Prgrmr@wrk 06-14-05, 02:26 AM	Short Answer: Yes. Long Answer: Everything is exactly the same. Armor spikes count as only one weapon, no matter the size of the armor, unless the DM decides to be generous, and lets you "wield" the spikes on each limb seperately. If he does, each limb would be an extra weapon to be enchanted seperately. Also, magic spikes are enchanted completely seperately from the armor, just in case somebody isn't sure. So you can have a +3 Full Plate with +1 flaming spikes, and you pay the costs seperately (in this case 9000gp armor + 8000gp weapons).
DM Aruthiat 06-14-05, 03:21 AM	Ugh.Wouldnt want to lose that armor. Another quick question, does the same apply for shields and their spikes or what? Can a shield have offensive and defensive enchantements simotamelsy? (spelling) Thanks btw.
Prgrmr@wrk 06-14-05, 03:38 AM	Yes, shield spikes can be enchanted exactly the same as armor spikes. Just think of spikes as a seperate (magical) dagger sticking out of the shield or armor in question.
Greyman 06-14-05, 03:45 AM	Yes. You can simultaneously enhance a shield's offensive and defensive capabilities. It does not even need to have spikes if it is capable of being used for a sheild bash attack.Shields: Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses. Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a bash. The bashing special ability, however, does grant a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls (see the special ability description). A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC.
DM Aruthiat 06-14-05, 03:59 PM	Well, what happens when you use a bashing shield with the bashing ability and seperate offensive enhancements, like an extra +3? What then?
Prgrmr@wrk 06-14-05, 04:18 PM	From what the SRD says (as quoted by Greyman), the bashing ability is quite stupid and pointless. It's exactly the same benefit as just getting a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, but it will end up costing more than just getting a +1 enhancement to the offense of the shield. I'd say they stack, but that you'd be stupid to pay for bashing. On a related note, when they say "added to the cost of the shield and it's enhancement bonus" I assume they mean calculate the cost of the shield defense and shield offense seperately, instead of combining the enhancement modifiers and calculating that way. EG: +2 (def) / +2 (off) = 221000gp + 222000gp NOT +2 (def) / +2 (off) = 441000gp Can anyone back me up on this, because the second way would be retarded, but the wording isn't completely clear to me.
DM Aruthiat 06-14-05, 05:35 PM	Right, I would think the costs would be seperate, becasue combining would either make the "shield" too expensive or too cheap.Thanks.
Greyman 06-14-05, 07:45 PM	Well, what happens when you use a bashing shield with the bashing ability and seperate offensive enhancements, like an extra +3? What then?The +1 enhancement to attack and damage from Bashing does not stack with any normal weapon enhancement. But the increased damage roll still applies. From what the SRD says (as quoted by Greyman), the bashing ability is quite stupid and pointless. It's exactly the same benefit as just getting a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, but it will end up costing more than just getting a +1 enhancement to the offense of the shield. I'd say they stack, but that you'd be stupid to pay for bashing. It is not exactly the same thing. The Bashing sheild ability also let's you shield count as two sizes larger and thus deals a greater amount of damage than a mere weapon enhancement. A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. (Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.)And so: A medium +3-weapon light shield does 1d3+3+(Str/2) points of damage on a bash. A medium +2 bashing light shield does 1d6+1+(Str/2) points of damage on a bash. A medium +2 bashing +3-weapon light shield does 1d6+3+(Str/2) points of damage.
Greyman 06-14-05, 08:18 PM	On a related note, when they say "added to the cost of the shield and it's enhancement bonus" I assume they mean calculate the cost of the shield defense and shield offense seperately, instead of combining the enhancement modifiers and calculating that way. EG: +2 (def) / +2 (off) = 221000gp + 222000gp NOT +2 (def) / +2 (off) = 441000gp Can anyone back me up on this, because the second way would be retarded, but the wording isn't completely clear to me.You should treat them as double weapons and enhance each aspect seperately. The same principle applies enhancing spiked armor. This means that you must give a shield at least a +1 weapon enhancement bonus before you can add any weapon abilities (note that the bashing ability does not count for this purpose). It also means that you can have up to +10 worth of shield enhancements and up to +10 total worth of weapon enhancements on the same shield, with a maximum +5 enhancement bonus applied to both offense and defense; just as you can have upto +10 total worth of weapon enhancements, and upto a +5 enhancement bonus, on each end of a double weapon on each. Cheesy examples: a +5 full plate with +5 defending spikes, or a +5 animated ghost-touch bashing heavy shield with +5 dancing defending weapon enancements. PS: I'd rule that in order to receive the benefit of the defending weapon property you must be wielding the spiked armor or shield as a weapon, taking two-weapon fighting penalties, (or have a dancing weapon enhancement activated).
DM Aruthiat 06-14-05, 11:41 PM	That seems to make sense.Remember spikes...this ought to be good. Thanks!