At what point is a body destroyed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

At what point is a body destroyed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
shades of eternity
02-12-07, 03:26 PM At what point is a body destroyed?

I got a gm whose when our saving throw fails seem to be reanimated and I want to see how much hitpoints a body has before it's turned to ash and can therefore not be animated.
Stormonu
02-12-07, 03:50 PM There's no real fixed point; the body's destroyed when the DM says so.

You could argue, by using zombies as an example, that a body is mangled when it's between -12 and (-10 - (2x racial hit points max)) (i.e., a negative equal to twice the creature's base hit dice, plus 10). For Joe average human commoner, that would be on average 25 hp total (2 hps, -10 to kill, 13 hp as an animated zombie), or 13 hps to the dead body to make it worthless for animating. Smaller/bigger creatures would take less/more damage determined by the bulk of the body.

Disintegration, death by immersion in lava or acid seems to indicate that annilating a body utterly takes 20d6 damage (average 70 hp damage).
shades of eternity
02-15-07, 09:11 AM alright, in that case I need to make a pressing argument and would sure love you guys help in this one.

I used a fireball for the immolation. It has been argued that Fireballs do a quick kill/char, not a slow roast. However, this is also the same method of a crematorium if enough damage is done.

I remembered an old rule in 2nd edition where if the optional rule of -30 points destroyed the body and think it should apply. I just need to remember the book and page # where I found it.

Additionally, once dead, any hit points based on levels they had in life no longer apply. A dead 20th level palladin has the same physical integrity as a 1st level commoner. Otherwise, stabilization rolls would not be based on a flat 10% and dead dead would happen on a fixed number (-10).

Anything else I can do to make it a more convincing arguement?
Millennium
02-15-07, 09:31 AM You might try something like this:

-10: Dead. Raise Dead works normally.
-(10 + CON): Destroyed. Raise Dead no longer works, but enough is left that Resurrection can still raise the remains.
-(10 + 2*CON): Obliterated. Nothing is left, so Resurrection no longer works, but True Resurrection still does.

This gives a relatively fine-grained control over the condition of a body, while still not being terribly serious: unintelligent foes won't further mangle a dead body until it's time to eat, and even most intelligent foes would be satisfied that a creature is dead.

Note that the wording for Resurrection explicitly states that the dust left behind by a disintegrated creature counts as enough remains, i.e. the body is at what I called "destroyed."
Seeker95
02-15-07, 09:47 AM Destroyed requires that the means of death be sufficient to have done so. Fire/immolation, certain spells, and perhaps even massive crushing. Aside from that, very little actually destroys the body.

That said, Millennium's suggestion might be on the right track, although I would suggest that the negative hit points required to count as destroyed by somewhat lower. Perhaps -(20 + Con).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shades of eternity 02-12-07, 03:26 PM	At what point is a body destroyed? I got a gm whose when our saving throw fails seem to be reanimated and I want to see how much hitpoints a body has before it's turned to ash and can therefore not be animated.
Stormonu 02-12-07, 03:50 PM	There's no real fixed point; the body's destroyed when the DM says so. You could argue, by using zombies as an example, that a body is mangled when it's between -12 and (-10 - (2x racial hit points max)) (i.e., a negative equal to twice the creature's base hit dice, plus 10). For Joe average human commoner, that would be on average 25 hp total (2 hps, -10 to kill, 13 hp as an animated zombie), or 13 hps to the dead body to make it worthless for animating. Smaller/bigger creatures would take less/more damage determined by the bulk of the body. Disintegration, death by immersion in lava or acid seems to indicate that annilating a body utterly takes 20d6 damage (average 70 hp damage).
shades of eternity 02-15-07, 09:11 AM	alright, in that case I need to make a pressing argument and would sure love you guys help in this one. I used a fireball for the immolation. It has been argued that Fireballs do a quick kill/char, not a slow roast. However, this is also the same method of a crematorium if enough damage is done. I remembered an old rule in 2nd edition where if the optional rule of -30 points destroyed the body and think it should apply. I just need to remember the book and page # where I found it. Additionally, once dead, any hit points based on levels they had in life no longer apply. A dead 20th level palladin has the same physical integrity as a 1st level commoner. Otherwise, stabilization rolls would not be based on a flat 10% and dead dead would happen on a fixed number (-10). Anything else I can do to make it a more convincing arguement?
Millennium 02-15-07, 09:31 AM	You might try something like this: -10: Dead. Raise Dead works normally. -(10 + CON): Destroyed. Raise Dead no longer works, but enough is left that Resurrection can still raise the remains. -(10 + 2*CON): Obliterated. Nothing is left, so Resurrection no longer works, but True Resurrection still does. This gives a relatively fine-grained control over the condition of a body, while still not being terribly serious: unintelligent foes won't further mangle a dead body until it's time to eat, and even most intelligent foes would be satisfied that a creature is dead. Note that the wording for Resurrection explicitly states that the dust left behind by a disintegrated creature counts as enough remains, i.e. the body is at what I called "destroyed."
Seeker95 02-15-07, 09:47 AM	Destroyed requires that the means of death be sufficient to have done so. Fire/immolation, certain spells, and perhaps even massive crushing. Aside from that, very little actually destroys the body. That said, Millennium's suggestion might be on the right track, although I would suggest that the negative hit points required to count as destroyed by somewhat lower. Perhaps -(20 + Con).