Attacks and Casting Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attacks and Casting Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NateNate
04-13-04, 01:49 AM One of my players believes that during a full-attack action, he may substitute one of his swings with casting a spell. His reasoning: as a standard action, a character may cast a spell or make a single attack, therefore each of these takes the same ammount of time and therefore may be substituted for one another. He still agrees that a character may only cast one (non-quickened) spell per round, thankfully, but wishes to be able to swing and cast in the same round.

I told him that the rules don't work that way, showed him that in order to cast a spell, you must take a standard action, and that since a full-attack action is a full-round action, it "takes an entire round to complete. Thus, it can't be coupled with a standard or move action" (PHB 143). He's always trying to come up with rules-lawyery tricks to gain an edge, and I always shoot them down because he's not very good at it. Perhaps if he heard it from several other people it would get through his thick head, so please respond with your thoughs on this subject.

Nate

(The Other Person)
This is a bit one sided, and does not at all explain the reasoning behind my example, and truthfully, "the rules lawyer" is proven wrong much more the he'll admite to, but go ahead and answer his question so I can explain how, meaning to or not, the rule do allow for either the ability to cast a specific type of spell, (primarily spells that have both a standard action and touch attacks. as well as other things), and then either attack, of move.
strenoth
04-13-04, 03:18 AM no, you can not cast a spell then attack. If you cast a spell, youa re left with a MEA left for the round. an MEA does not allow you to attack.

So, If casting a spell does nto let you attack after words, why woudl attacking, then let you cast a spell? it's the same number of actions.

learning how to maximise your swings and find openings quicker and easier happens as a fighter levels up. But a spell generally requires a fairly precise amount of time to say/do/cast. it costs a feat and 4 spell levels to make a spell faster (which makes it a Free Action).

it's also a Standard Action to drinka potion. A figther may not replace one fo his attacks in a full-round attack to drink down a potion instead.

A Full Round Attack takes an entire round of actions. The only things you may do besides attack (or attack varients like trip) is take 1 5' step, and free actions. yoru standard action and yoru MEA have been consumed into the Full Attack, and may not be used for doing anything else.
MrkGrismer
04-15-04, 04:09 PM The only reason the character get's multiple attacks with a full round action (which, btw actually represent decent attack chances, not just weapon swings) is because the character is concentrating on doing NOTHING else. ANY other action (other then the standard 5' step) pretty much negates the multiple attack opportunities, and thus reverts to the single attack of a standard action. Which then goes back to one standard action and one move equivalent action.

You may want to mention that previously most DMs wouldn't even allow that, just one OR the other (move or strike).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NateNate 04-13-04, 01:49 AM	One of my players believes that during a full-attack action, he may substitute one of his swings with casting a spell. His reasoning: as a standard action, a character may cast a spell or make a single attack, therefore each of these takes the same ammount of time and therefore may be substituted for one another. He still agrees that a character may only cast one (non-quickened) spell per round, thankfully, but wishes to be able to swing and cast in the same round. I told him that the rules don't work that way, showed him that in order to cast a spell, you must take a standard action, and that since a full-attack action is a full-round action, it "takes an entire round to complete. Thus, it can't be coupled with a standard or move action" (PHB 143). He's always trying to come up with rules-lawyery tricks to gain an edge, and I always shoot them down because he's not very good at it. Perhaps if he heard it from several other people it would get through his thick head, so please respond with your thoughs on this subject. Nate (The Other Person) This is a bit one sided, and does not at all explain the reasoning behind my example, and truthfully, "the rules lawyer" is proven wrong much more the he'll admite to, but go ahead and answer his question so I can explain how, meaning to or not, the rule do allow for either the ability to cast a specific type of spell, (primarily spells that have both a standard action and touch attacks. as well as other things), and then either attack, of move.
strenoth 04-13-04, 03:18 AM	no, you can not cast a spell then attack. If you cast a spell, youa re left with a MEA left for the round. an MEA does not allow you to attack. So, If casting a spell does nto let you attack after words, why woudl attacking, then let you cast a spell? it's the same number of actions. learning how to maximise your swings and find openings quicker and easier happens as a fighter levels up. But a spell generally requires a fairly precise amount of time to say/do/cast. it costs a feat and 4 spell levels to make a spell faster (which makes it a Free Action). it's also a Standard Action to drinka potion. A figther may not replace one fo his attacks in a full-round attack to drink down a potion instead. A Full Round Attack takes an entire round of actions. The only things you may do besides attack (or attack varients like trip) is take 1 5' step, and free actions. yoru standard action and yoru MEA have been consumed into the Full Attack, and may not be used for doing anything else.
MrkGrismer 04-15-04, 04:09 PM	The only reason the character get's multiple attacks with a full round action (which, btw actually represent decent attack chances, not just weapon swings) is because the character is concentrating on doing NOTHING else. ANY other action (other then the standard 5' step) pretty much negates the multiple attack opportunities, and thus reverts to the single attack of a standard action. Which then goes back to one standard action and one move equivalent action. You may want to mention that previously most DMs wouldn't even allow that, just one OR the other (move or strike).