Attempt 2 at saving throw questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attempt 2 at saving throw questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xorlac
04-05-06, 08:34 PM I appologise if this is a duplicate post. There seemed to be a technical problem when I first attempted to post this and it is not coming up when I look in the forum.

I have not played D&D in over 20 years. I just picked up the Player Handbook and DM Guide and there certainly have been a lot of changes, not that I can remember the rules from back then.

I am trying to figure out how saving throws work. I don't understand where the base saving throw number comes from. I have searched the web and not been able to find anything conclusive. What I have found does not make it clear what version of D&D is being referred to.

For example: If someone were to trigger a trap that perhaps shoots out a poisoned dart. How would you know what the base saving throw number to start out with before factoring in things like stat bonuses. The books don't really seem to address the very basics.

I also looked at some of the creatures in the monster manual and for example the Allip has some special attacks. For babble it lists a DC of 16 which seems straightforward enough, but it doesn't show a DC for wisdom damage. I don't yet have the book and only looked at the book online so there may be reference in the book that answers the question.

I would appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction as I'm sure most people here know all the ins and outs of saves. I'm thinking about getting back into D&D again. I would like to get a handle on at least the basics before looking for a group to adventure with so I won't hold back the action too much by not having a grasp of the more simple aspects of the game.
Escef
04-05-06, 09:07 PM Traps use either a set saving throw (such as a trap that releases a fireball), or an attack roll (such as a dart trap).

Attack rolls are now done by adding all your bonuses (there is a class/level based attack bonus that replaces the old THAC0) to a d20 roll and if you exceed the target's AC (which now starts at 10 and goes up) you hit. Saving throws are down to three types (ref, wil, fort) as opposed to the old cluster :censored: of save catagories (it was 5, wasn't it?). Your save bonuses work about the same way as an attack roll, class/level bonuses + relevent ability modifier (dex, wis, or con) + misc. modifiers (from defensive spells and items) and if you beat the Difficulty Class (DC) of the save you're good (sometimes, some spells and effects still have partial effects even on a passed save, like our old friend fireball).

Save DCs are computed by adding the relevant ability score modifier (con for most poisons and breath weapons, cha for most anything else) to half the attacker's HD +10. So a poison from a 4 HD snake wioth a Con bonus of +2 would have a save DC of 14. Spells are a little different, for that it's relevant ability modifier + spell level +10 + misc. modifiers (some abilities you pick up in the game can boost the save DC).

Dust off your dice and welcome back.
Nom
04-05-06, 09:19 PM For example: If someone were to trigger a trap that perhaps shoots out a poisoned dart. How would you know what the base saving throw number to start out with before factoring in things like stat bonuses. The books don't really seem to address the very basics.For the DC, the trap itself will say. The DMG has about 6-7 pages on designing and statting traps.

Each character has a base save bonus for each save, derived from their class levels. For example, a third level fighter has a +3 BSB for Fort saves and a +1 BSB for Will and Ref saves. To that, you add any bonuses (such as ability bonuses).

Almost all checks are done as d20 + bonus vs DC. Some replace DC with an opposed d20 + bonus roll. If you make the DC or better, you succeed.

So, let's consider the allip with his DC 16 babble attack against our 3rd level fighter. He's got 10 Wis (no modifier) but a cloak of resistance (+1 to saves). So his Will save is +1 (BSB) +1 (cloak) = +2. He needs to roll 14 or better (14 + 2 = 16) to resist the effect.

AC works in exactly the same way; AC is just a DC. Our fighter has +3 BAB (base attack bonus), 16 (+3) Str and Weapon Focus for +1: a net attack bonus of +7. To hit AC 15 he needs to roll 8 or better (8 + 7 = 15).
I also looked at some of the creatures in the monster manual and for example the Allip has some special attacks. For babble it lists a DC of 16 which seems straightforward enough, but it doesn't show a DC for wisdom damage. I don't yet have the book and only looked at the book online so there may be reference in the book that answers the question.Wisdom drain occurs on a successful hit. Not all attacks or abilities allow a saving throw.
Xorlac
04-07-06, 06:46 PM Thanks for the help.

From what I have seen so far, the new rules are an improvement over the old ones. The new armor class system is definitely better than going into negative armor classes as done in the older system.

I'm sure I'll have more questions. I will read both the PH and the DM Guide before I ask them. It looks as though there are quite a few active players in my area and look forward to some adventuring.

Thanks again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xorlac 04-05-06, 08:34 PM	I appologise if this is a duplicate post. There seemed to be a technical problem when I first attempted to post this and it is not coming up when I look in the forum. I have not played D&D in over 20 years. I just picked up the Player Handbook and DM Guide and there certainly have been a lot of changes, not that I can remember the rules from back then. I am trying to figure out how saving throws work. I don't understand where the base saving throw number comes from. I have searched the web and not been able to find anything conclusive. What I have found does not make it clear what version of D&D is being referred to. For example: If someone were to trigger a trap that perhaps shoots out a poisoned dart. How would you know what the base saving throw number to start out with before factoring in things like stat bonuses. The books don't really seem to address the very basics. I also looked at some of the creatures in the monster manual and for example the Allip has some special attacks. For babble it lists a DC of 16 which seems straightforward enough, but it doesn't show a DC for wisdom damage. I don't yet have the book and only looked at the book online so there may be reference in the book that answers the question. I would appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction as I'm sure most people here know all the ins and outs of saves. I'm thinking about getting back into D&D again. I would like to get a handle on at least the basics before looking for a group to adventure with so I won't hold back the action too much by not having a grasp of the more simple aspects of the game.
Escef 04-05-06, 09:07 PM	Traps use either a set saving throw (such as a trap that releases a fireball), or an attack roll (such as a dart trap). Attack rolls are now done by adding all your bonuses (there is a class/level based attack bonus that replaces the old THAC0) to a d20 roll and if you exceed the target's AC (which now starts at 10 and goes up) you hit. Saving throws are down to three types (ref, wil, fort) as opposed to the old cluster :censored: of save catagories (it was 5, wasn't it?). Your save bonuses work about the same way as an attack roll, class/level bonuses + relevent ability modifier (dex, wis, or con) + misc. modifiers (from defensive spells and items) and if you beat the Difficulty Class (DC) of the save you're good (sometimes, some spells and effects still have partial effects even on a passed save, like our old friend fireball). Save DCs are computed by adding the relevant ability score modifier (con for most poisons and breath weapons, cha for most anything else) to half the attacker's HD +10. So a poison from a 4 HD snake wioth a Con bonus of +2 would have a save DC of 14. Spells are a little different, for that it's relevant ability modifier + spell level +10 + misc. modifiers (some abilities you pick up in the game can boost the save DC). Dust off your dice and welcome back.
Nom 04-05-06, 09:19 PM	For example: If someone were to trigger a trap that perhaps shoots out a poisoned dart. How would you know what the base saving throw number to start out with before factoring in things like stat bonuses. The books don't really seem to address the very basics.For the DC, the trap itself will say. The DMG has about 6-7 pages on designing and statting traps. Each character has a base save bonus for each save, derived from their class levels. For example, a third level fighter has a +3 BSB for Fort saves and a +1 BSB for Will and Ref saves. To that, you add any bonuses (such as ability bonuses). Almost all checks are done as d20 + bonus vs DC. Some replace DC with an opposed d20 + bonus roll. If you make the DC or better, you succeed. So, let's consider the allip with his DC 16 babble attack against our 3rd level fighter. He's got 10 Wis (no modifier) but a cloak of resistance (+1 to saves). So his Will save is +1 (BSB) +1 (cloak) = +2. He needs to roll 14 or better (14 + 2 = 16) to resist the effect. AC works in exactly the same way; AC is just a DC. Our fighter has +3 BAB (base attack bonus), 16 (+3) Str and Weapon Focus for +1: a net attack bonus of +7. To hit AC 15 he needs to roll 8 or better (8 + 7 = 15). I also looked at some of the creatures in the monster manual and for example the Allip has some special attacks. For babble it lists a DC of 16 which seems straightforward enough, but it doesn't show a DC for wisdom damage. I don't yet have the book and only looked at the book online so there may be reference in the book that answers the question.Wisdom drain occurs on a successful hit. Not all attacks or abilities allow a saving throw.
Xorlac 04-07-06, 06:46 PM	Thanks for the help. From what I have seen so far, the new rules are an improvement over the old ones. The new armor class system is definitely better than going into negative armor classes as done in the older system. I'm sure I'll have more questions. I will read both the PH and the DM Guide before I ask them. It looks as though there are quite a few active players in my area and look forward to some adventuring. Thanks again.