Attention All Dungeon Masters... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attention All Dungeon Masters... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Twin_Daggars
11-27-06, 02:55 PM Hello I am student in a University doing a thesis paper on what it means to be a Dungeon Master in a Role-Playing Game. I would really love all the help u can tell or give me because i am also starting a group in my university and i wish to DM. I hope to get lots of feedback and input so i look forward to seeing the responses.
a_psh
11-27-06, 03:02 PM You're... serious? This isn't just the setup for one of those "my thesis advisor cries himself to sleep every night" jokes?

First off, what angle are you approaching things from, here? Sociology?
Twin_Daggars
11-27-06, 03:11 PM LOL no i am really serious i had to choose a topic to write about in my Expository Writing and my final paper is a thesis on what it is to be a Dungeon Master. I need all the real imput i can get because i have only ever really been a player. Dont make fun of me this account isnt used very often and i need all the help i can get. :(
a_psh
11-27-06, 03:29 PM Well, I restate my question: what's the angle? From what kind of perspective do you want to look at this?

For me, for example, the most interesting part of RPGs and their design is a vaguely sociological kind of thing: the "social contract" behind the game and how the players negotiate, both openly and tacitly, different kinds of authority in their shared imagined space. Writing a paper about this would be completely different from writing a paper espousing the educational virtues of an RPG (an overused topic, if you look at how often people ask "I am writing a paper" questions about it), or about the history of D&D, or about just the mundane experience of preparing for a session.
Twin_Daggars
11-27-06, 03:38 PM I value your imput form the sociologically angle, but i am really just looking for the plain and simple: what does it mean to be a DM. I dont mind the social interaction the players and DM get but i really need just the information on what they simple do besides play the baddies.
Thought
11-27-06, 03:47 PM If I might, as someone who has written dissertations, I would recommend broadening your approach to include "game mastering" in general, not just DMing (a DnD specific term). In which case, you might have good luck talking theory over at "The Forge" (www.indie-rpgs.com), a website devoted to pen and paper game design and theory.

Furthermore, a thesis needs a thesis statement. What is yours? (and "What it means to be a DM" isn't a strong thesis statement. Think about what specific question you want to answer).

And finally, I would highly recommend writing up a questionnaire at some point for people to fill out (even if the answers are free form). That will provide a standard basis from which you can categorize similar information (X number of DMs approach Q game element in Z manner, which implies Y underlying concept. Y underlying concept relates back to my thesis in P manner.)

Just asking people haphazardly over a forum will only get you anecdotal evidence, which can be useful for a thesis, but you need more than that to support a well written document.

Out of curiosity, what level of academia is this for? (Undergrad? Master's? I would suggest Ph.D., but you wouldn't be here if that was the case). If undergrad, what is the level of class? (GE, lower division, upper division). Also, as a psh has asked, what is your "angle?" That is, what discipline/major does this class fall under?
dokesa
11-27-06, 03:50 PM DMing is like your father teaching you chess endgames. He sets up the board and you win if you play correctly.
Twin_Daggars
11-27-06, 03:54 PM LOL i do like the way u approach me and i must say that u say right through this little thing i call a forum. I am a freshman in college and my final exam in my expository writing paper is on a subject not of my choosing. My professor went into a sight and found a topic i was unfamilar on and is asking me to write about it. The best thing i can do is go to where he went and ask the simple question "what is a DM?" I ask DM and not GM because the topic is specific to the DM and not the GM. Another student has a thesis on a GM and i needed something equally hard but different. Thanks for giving me the idea for a question and answer forum i will add that very soon to this one. Thanks again:)
a_psh
11-27-06, 03:54 PM Uh, just plain "being a DM" doesn't mean very much, really. In the context of D&D specifically, GMing is mostly like being a player with broader content authority (that's control over setting, basically) and more pre-session prep and in-session organization.

There's plenty of other ways to look at it, but I agree with Thought here: the RPG theory angle is a lot more fruitful than just asking hobbyists what they think. The latter approach just leaves too much hidden, as a lot of what goes on at the table is really unconscious and unstated.
Sim_antix
11-27-06, 03:58 PM DMing is like your father teaching you chess endgames. He sets up the board and you win if you play correctly.
Yes exactly. I have a great quote somewhere about how being a DM is like playing chess against your kids. You know you could wipe the floor with them if you wanted but you play them as fairly as you can always giving them a chance to win but without making it obvious that you are letting them win.
DarkNick
11-27-06, 04:20 PM If you need some research material, check out http://www.roleplayingtips.com

They have heaps of DM advise.

Personally I think you will find that a DM is different things to different people. Each DM has their own style which is influeced and influences their groups. I don't know if there is one thing that all DMs are. What a DM is also changes depending on your perspective. So you could look at this from the perspective of the DM, from the perspective of the players, or from the perspective of the game makers, or from the perspective of christian fanatics.

You could consider trying to answer the question "How does a DM in D&D differ from the generic position of GM as it applies to all roleplaying games?".
Otherwise there will be a lot of crossover with the other fella doing something on being a GM. So you could start by looking at all the roles of a GM, common factors, then narrow down to how a DM is different as a subset of all GMing (if there is a difference, which I am not convinced there is, unless your only looking a purely mechanical differences which might affect the way you DM). Your could do a questionnaire where you compare Dnd DMs to other systems GMs..

Perhaps the system influences your style? Maybe the system simply provides different opportunities to express your own style (kind of like martial arts was too bruce lee ;) ).
Ikeren
11-27-06, 05:07 PM Lots of tedious organization, meticulous character checking, and complex math. Plus lots of thinking, which is generally the fun part.
a_psh
11-27-06, 05:43 PM Lots of tedious organization, meticulous character checking, and complex math. Plus lots of thinking, which is generally the fun part.Isn't that what players do, anyway, just magnified a bit?
Myree
11-28-06, 12:43 AM I always emphasize the improvization angle. The DM (or GM if you prefer) can spend countless hours drawing up the plans for a great adventure -- but as we used to say in the Marines, "the first casualty of a battle is the battle plan" -- 10 minutes into it and suddenly the group is chosing to do something completely different than you expected. You now have to figure out a way to either get them back on one of the multitude of possible paths that you thought they would take, or throw the whole thing out and figure out a whole new way to do things -- and all while keeping your cool and keeping it fun for the whole group!
a_psh
11-28-06, 12:50 AM In terms of authority and role, this is a decent thread:

Balance, the roles of the DM, and the authority of the office. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=745201)
Thought
11-28-06, 09:51 AM I am a freshman in college and my final exam in my expository writing paper is on a subject not of my choosing.

Ah see, this makes all the difference in the world. When you said thesis, I was thinking of the sort of thesis one writes in order to either graduate from some undergrad programs or (more usually) to obtain a higher degree. But a "thesis" for a freshman writing class (English department, I will assume) is a different beast all together.

I cannot recommend the roleplaying tips website that DarkNick linked enough. However, it is concerned with GMing, not DMing specifically.

Out of curiosity, how long is your paper? 5ish pages?

Something that might prove fruitful is a look at how DMing differs from GMing as to the focus of DnD on GNS (Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist) spectrum. For such a discussion, allow me to give you some potential reading:

For GNS theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNS_Theory
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/1/

For discussions of the specifics of each element of GNS
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/21/
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/15/

And a look at DnD itself through GNS eyes
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/

Heck, just browse The Forge's article archive
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/

DnD is generally considered more of a Gamist sort of experience, where the focus of the system is on quantitative conflict resolution. Therefor, a DM will, in general, be more concerned with quantitative conflict resolution. A GM, however, is not tied to a specific system, and as such may be more concerned with other aspects of the play experience. However, it should also be noted that not all DMs are concerned with the gamist aspect; as the rules present it, DMing is focused on Gamism, but as it is interpreted by individuals the focus may expand to focus more on narrativism, or even simulationism. For Gamism, you might have a good luck looking into any of the wizard forums that focus of rule interpretation (Dm Rules Counseling, for example). For narrativism, I would recommend the Character development forum, as well as any What is a DM to Do topic that focuses on how to tell a story. The Campaign Workshop forum is also good for narrativism (specifically, how one sets up a narrativistic context). All homebrew topics and forums, however, are wonderful for getting a glance at simulationism, as people struggle with representing the real world (or their imagination) in the limited context of the game.

Of course, that is all probably too much for your paper, but things to get you thinking.
a_psh
11-28-06, 10:35 AM To be honest, I'd stay away from the letters G, N, and S.

If you're going to use theory to look at the game, I'd stick with the Big Model... focusing on "social contract" rather than the "creative agenda" level.
okaynowa
11-28-06, 11:31 AM I strongly, strongly recommend swinging by your campus Writing Center if it has one (and most good ones do, nowadays) and bouncing around some ideas for a focused thesis and outline. "Being a DM" is an amporphous and unusual topic. Even if it's expository writing and not persuasive writing, you'll want to write as if you're answering a very specific question. "What's it like to be a DM?" is almost there, but not quite. A more pointed, thought-provoking (or at least paper-provoking) question would be, "What's it like to be the person 'in charge' of a Dungeons & Dragons gaming session?" Or, "How does a DM, DM?" When you get more specific with your question, you'll have an easier time answering it with relevant information.

On a related note, you'll get better responses from the board if you ask questions like you would in an in-depth interview. "What's it like?" is a daytime talk show question. "How many hours a week do you put into DMing?" is a CNN question. Get Larry King on 'em!
CharlieRock
11-28-06, 01:07 PM it means this (http://www.cruisegazing.com/RPG_Motivational/AngrryGM.jpg) :D
Twin_Daggars
11-29-06, 12:19 PM I am so happy at all the responses and i really enjoyed all the input and i think the little check in the forum name means a good thing. I really do have enough information to write about but please keep posting. I have to finalize my paper by monday so i do look forward to all the advice and websites you all have given me. The information on the thesis question has forced a change, and one for the good. I have a new thesis topic after showing my professor this thread and he agrees with the new thesis. THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!!!!!one11!!!:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Twin_Daggars
11-29-06, 01:05 PM Out of curiosity, how long is your paper? 5ish pages?

Actually Thought my paper is more towards 10-15 pages single spaced no title and 10 point font. :weep: So it is very long and tedious and i need all the info i can get. I will look into the sites that you suggest and the others that are suggested.
Sim_antix
11-29-06, 01:22 PM Just FYI the little check means that it is a thread you have posted on.

I would love to contribute more to this discussion but my views on DMs and Players tend to spark debates on something that we aren't allowed to discuss right now...
THETUNNELRAT
11-29-06, 02:13 PM I believe your doing it because my wife when she was is High school did a 100 page report /study on Role-playing and its effect on society in the late 90s. this isn't far fetched at all.

Now what it means to be a DM(story teller) to me its like being the shaper of your own reality; You take the first steep in altering the perceptions of those you take into this world and weave them through plots with twist and turns while the story unfolds .

The term to others means you are GOD the players are your playthings that are you abuse them as you see fit.

But over all its about fun and socializing it alway has been, Junk food , hanging out, twenty four games , and killing things in new and interesting ways.

hope this helps:D
Grand Theft Otto
11-29-06, 02:26 PM LOL no i am really serious i had to choose a topic to write about in my Expository Writing and my final paper is a thesis on what it is to be a Dungeon Master. I need all the real imput i can get because i have only ever really been a player. Dont make fun of me this account isnt used very often and i need all the help i can get. :(

That's slightly better. I was worried you were doing a masters thesis on this, and was about to weep for the academic system. (insert ASCII guy with hand on head here). My advice is still dont write about D&D for class papers.
a_psh
11-29-06, 05:44 PM 10-15 pages single-spaced? Okay, I guess maybe you can bring the letters G, N, and S into it, after all. =)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Twin_Daggars 11-27-06, 02:55 PM	Hello I am student in a University doing a thesis paper on what it means to be a Dungeon Master in a Role-Playing Game. I would really love all the help u can tell or give me because i am also starting a group in my university and i wish to DM. I hope to get lots of feedback and input so i look forward to seeing the responses.
a_psh 11-27-06, 03:02 PM	You're... serious? This isn't just the setup for one of those "my thesis advisor cries himself to sleep every night" jokes? First off, what angle are you approaching things from, here? Sociology?
Twin_Daggars 11-27-06, 03:11 PM	LOL no i am really serious i had to choose a topic to write about in my Expository Writing and my final paper is a thesis on what it is to be a Dungeon Master. I need all the real imput i can get because i have only ever really been a player. Dont make fun of me this account isnt used very often and i need all the help i can get. :(
a_psh 11-27-06, 03:29 PM	Well, I restate my question: what's the angle? From what kind of perspective do you want to look at this? For me, for example, the most interesting part of RPGs and their design is a vaguely sociological kind of thing: the "social contract" behind the game and how the players negotiate, both openly and tacitly, different kinds of authority in their shared imagined space. Writing a paper about this would be completely different from writing a paper espousing the educational virtues of an RPG (an overused topic, if you look at how often people ask "I am writing a paper" questions about it), or about the history of D&D, or about just the mundane experience of preparing for a session.
Twin_Daggars 11-27-06, 03:38 PM	I value your imput form the sociologically angle, but i am really just looking for the plain and simple: what does it mean to be a DM. I dont mind the social interaction the players and DM get but i really need just the information on what they simple do besides play the baddies.
Thought 11-27-06, 03:47 PM	If I might, as someone who has written dissertations, I would recommend broadening your approach to include "game mastering" in general, not just DMing (a DnD specific term). In which case, you might have good luck talking theory over at "The Forge" (www.indie-rpgs.com), a website devoted to pen and paper game design and theory. Furthermore, a thesis needs a thesis statement. What is yours? (and "What it means to be a DM" isn't a strong thesis statement. Think about what specific question you want to answer). And finally, I would highly recommend writing up a questionnaire at some point for people to fill out (even if the answers are free form). That will provide a standard basis from which you can categorize similar information (X number of DMs approach Q game element in Z manner, which implies Y underlying concept. Y underlying concept relates back to my thesis in P manner.) Just asking people haphazardly over a forum will only get you anecdotal evidence, which can be useful for a thesis, but you need more than that to support a well written document. Out of curiosity, what level of academia is this for? (Undergrad? Master's? I would suggest Ph.D., but you wouldn't be here if that was the case). If undergrad, what is the level of class? (GE, lower division, upper division). Also, as a psh has asked, what is your "angle?" That is, what discipline/major does this class fall under?
dokesa 11-27-06, 03:50 PM	DMing is like your father teaching you chess endgames. He sets up the board and you win if you play correctly.
Twin_Daggars 11-27-06, 03:54 PM	LOL i do like the way u approach me and i must say that u say right through this little thing i call a forum. I am a freshman in college and my final exam in my expository writing paper is on a subject not of my choosing. My professor went into a sight and found a topic i was unfamilar on and is asking me to write about it. The best thing i can do is go to where he went and ask the simple question "what is a DM?" I ask DM and not GM because the topic is specific to the DM and not the GM. Another student has a thesis on a GM and i needed something equally hard but different. Thanks for giving me the idea for a question and answer forum i will add that very soon to this one. Thanks again:)
a_psh 11-27-06, 03:54 PM	Uh, just plain "being a DM" doesn't mean very much, really. In the context of D&D specifically, GMing is mostly like being a player with broader content authority (that's control over setting, basically) and more pre-session prep and in-session organization. There's plenty of other ways to look at it, but I agree with Thought here: the RPG theory angle is a lot more fruitful than just asking hobbyists what they think. The latter approach just leaves too much hidden, as a lot of what goes on at the table is really unconscious and unstated.
Sim_antix 11-27-06, 03:58 PM	DMing is like your father teaching you chess endgames. He sets up the board and you win if you play correctly. Yes exactly. I have a great quote somewhere about how being a DM is like playing chess against your kids. You know you could wipe the floor with them if you wanted but you play them as fairly as you can always giving them a chance to win but without making it obvious that you are letting them win.
DarkNick 11-27-06, 04:20 PM	If you need some research material, check out http://www.roleplayingtips.com They have heaps of DM advise. Personally I think you will find that a DM is different things to different people. Each DM has their own style which is influeced and influences their groups. I don't know if there is one thing that all DMs are. What a DM is also changes depending on your perspective. So you could look at this from the perspective of the DM, from the perspective of the players, or from the perspective of the game makers, or from the perspective of christian fanatics. You could consider trying to answer the question "How does a DM in D&D differ from the generic position of GM as it applies to all roleplaying games?". Otherwise there will be a lot of crossover with the other fella doing something on being a GM. So you could start by looking at all the roles of a GM, common factors, then narrow down to how a DM is different as a subset of all GMing (if there is a difference, which I am not convinced there is, unless your only looking a purely mechanical differences which might affect the way you DM). Your could do a questionnaire where you compare Dnd DMs to other systems GMs.. Perhaps the system influences your style? Maybe the system simply provides different opportunities to express your own style (kind of like martial arts was too bruce lee ;) ).
Ikeren 11-27-06, 05:07 PM	Lots of tedious organization, meticulous character checking, and complex math. Plus lots of thinking, which is generally the fun part.
a_psh 11-27-06, 05:43 PM	Lots of tedious organization, meticulous character checking, and complex math. Plus lots of thinking, which is generally the fun part.Isn't that what players do, anyway, just magnified a bit?
Myree 11-28-06, 12:43 AM	I always emphasize the improvization angle. The DM (or GM if you prefer) can spend countless hours drawing up the plans for a great adventure -- but as we used to say in the Marines, "the first casualty of a battle is the battle plan" -- 10 minutes into it and suddenly the group is chosing to do something completely different than you expected. You now have to figure out a way to either get them back on one of the multitude of possible paths that you thought they would take, or throw the whole thing out and figure out a whole new way to do things -- and all while keeping your cool and keeping it fun for the whole group!
a_psh 11-28-06, 12:50 AM	In terms of authority and role, this is a decent thread: Balance, the roles of the DM, and the authority of the office. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=745201)
Thought 11-28-06, 09:51 AM	I am a freshman in college and my final exam in my expository writing paper is on a subject not of my choosing. Ah see, this makes all the difference in the world. When you said thesis, I was thinking of the sort of thesis one writes in order to either graduate from some undergrad programs or (more usually) to obtain a higher degree. But a "thesis" for a freshman writing class (English department, I will assume) is a different beast all together. I cannot recommend the roleplaying tips website that DarkNick linked enough. However, it is concerned with GMing, not DMing specifically. Out of curiosity, how long is your paper? 5ish pages? Something that might prove fruitful is a look at how DMing differs from GMing as to the focus of DnD on GNS (Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist) spectrum. For such a discussion, allow me to give you some potential reading: For GNS theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNS_Theory http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/1/ For discussions of the specifics of each element of GNS http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/21/ http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/15/ And a look at DnD itself through GNS eyes http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/ Heck, just browse The Forge's article archive http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/ DnD is generally considered more of a Gamist sort of experience, where the focus of the system is on quantitative conflict resolution. Therefor, a DM will, in general, be more concerned with quantitative conflict resolution. A GM, however, is not tied to a specific system, and as such may be more concerned with other aspects of the play experience. However, it should also be noted that not all DMs are concerned with the gamist aspect; as the rules present it, DMing is focused on Gamism, but as it is interpreted by individuals the focus may expand to focus more on narrativism, or even simulationism. For Gamism, you might have a good luck looking into any of the wizard forums that focus of rule interpretation (Dm Rules Counseling, for example). For narrativism, I would recommend the Character development forum, as well as any What is a DM to Do topic that focuses on how to tell a story. The Campaign Workshop forum is also good for narrativism (specifically, how one sets up a narrativistic context). All homebrew topics and forums, however, are wonderful for getting a glance at simulationism, as people struggle with representing the real world (or their imagination) in the limited context of the game. Of course, that is all probably too much for your paper, but things to get you thinking.
a_psh 11-28-06, 10:35 AM	To be honest, I'd stay away from the letters G, N, and S. If you're going to use theory to look at the game, I'd stick with the Big Model... focusing on "social contract" rather than the "creative agenda" level.
okaynowa 11-28-06, 11:31 AM	I strongly, strongly recommend swinging by your campus Writing Center if it has one (and most good ones do, nowadays) and bouncing around some ideas for a focused thesis and outline. "Being a DM" is an amporphous and unusual topic. Even if it's expository writing and not persuasive writing, you'll want to write as if you're answering a very specific question. "What's it like to be a DM?" is almost there, but not quite. A more pointed, thought-provoking (or at least paper-provoking) question would be, "What's it like to be the person 'in charge' of a Dungeons & Dragons gaming session?" Or, "How does a DM, DM?" When you get more specific with your question, you'll have an easier time answering it with relevant information. On a related note, you'll get better responses from the board if you ask questions like you would in an in-depth interview. "What's it like?" is a daytime talk show question. "How many hours a week do you put into DMing?" is a CNN question. Get Larry King on 'em!
CharlieRock 11-28-06, 01:07 PM	it means this (http://www.cruisegazing.com/RPG_Motivational/AngrryGM.jpg) :D
Twin_Daggars 11-29-06, 12:19 PM	I am so happy at all the responses and i really enjoyed all the input and i think the little check in the forum name means a good thing. I really do have enough information to write about but please keep posting. I have to finalize my paper by monday so i do look forward to all the advice and websites you all have given me. The information on the thesis question has forced a change, and one for the good. I have a new thesis topic after showing my professor this thread and he agrees with the new thesis. THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!!!!!one11!!!:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Twin_Daggars 11-29-06, 01:05 PM	Out of curiosity, how long is your paper? 5ish pages? Actually Thought my paper is more towards 10-15 pages single spaced no title and 10 point font. :weep: So it is very long and tedious and i need all the info i can get. I will look into the sites that you suggest and the others that are suggested.
Sim_antix 11-29-06, 01:22 PM	Just FYI the little check means that it is a thread you have posted on. I would love to contribute more to this discussion but my views on DMs and Players tend to spark debates on something that we aren't allowed to discuss right now...
THETUNNELRAT 11-29-06, 02:13 PM	I believe your doing it because my wife when she was is High school did a 100 page report /study on Role-playing and its effect on society in the late 90s. this isn't far fetched at all. Now what it means to be a DM(story teller) to me its like being the shaper of your own reality; You take the first steep in altering the perceptions of those you take into this world and weave them through plots with twist and turns while the story unfolds . The term to others means you are GOD the players are your playthings that are you abuse them as you see fit. But over all its about fun and socializing it alway has been, Junk food , hanging out, twenty four games , and killing things in new and interesting ways. hope this helps:D
Grand Theft Otto 11-29-06, 02:26 PM	LOL no i am really serious i had to choose a topic to write about in my Expository Writing and my final paper is a thesis on what it is to be a Dungeon Master. I need all the real imput i can get because i have only ever really been a player. Dont make fun of me this account isnt used very often and i need all the help i can get. :( That's slightly better. I was worried you were doing a masters thesis on this, and was about to weep for the academic system. (insert ASCII guy with hand on head here). My advice is still dont write about D&D for class papers.
a_psh 11-29-06, 05:44 PM	10-15 pages single-spaced? Okay, I guess maybe you can bring the letters G, N, and S into it, after all. =)