Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Axehammer 02-15-06, 06:04 PM	Ok so one of your players characters die, what are you to do? One word, er more than one word. like two words. GOAST TEMPLET there you go! they can still play their character to the end of the adventure (unless they can get a goast killed) then afterwards(for in game macanics) they poses some wanna be adventurer in some sort of interveiw and "choose" their replacement all their stuff goes to the new character (ALL OF IT) and so a new chapter is writen (at this point the manifest says their good byes and disipears). I try to have my players have a back up character just in case But how do they fight if they are dead? stick their stuff in some sort of make shift coffen and it is now ethereal, sort of (for best effect do not remove from coffen). for me this has been a realy useful tecnuiqe for keeping game play going. also on a side note they cant manifest until the either battle is over or (as i usualy do) untill an hour after the horrid tragidy I apoligize for any miss spellings and hope you get over it. If you don't well then tough orc skulls!
Tyler Do'Urden 02-15-06, 06:45 PM	Brilliant solution that. I'd like to propose a goast to fairly minor typos in blindingly obvious places.
DanjaNinja 02-15-06, 06:55 PM	Brilliant solution that. I'd like to propose a goast to fairly minor typos in blindingly obvious places. That's not fair, nitpicking on his spelling. It was still a brilliant anwer. :P
Axehammer 02-15-06, 07:43 PM	thanks i thought of it while leafing though the monster manual earlir today. I would like to think this is wothy of going on to the D&D site but thats just me. :) If I have offended anyone with my spelling I hope you get over it. If not well, tough orc skulls then.
Vaelan 02-15-06, 08:25 PM	Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is an entire sourcebook dedicated to this concept: the Ghostwalk campaign setting. Unlike most campaign settings, it is built to fit into any world.
Axehammer 02-15-06, 08:39 PM	You obviuly have never died while facing an Ancheint Red Dragon at 14th level only to lose all you have strived to acheive and aspire to be. or maby I just dont do settings. Realy come up with an answer for the masses and this is the thanks I get! If you don't like my spelling or ideas then I hope you get over it. If you don't, then tough orc skulls!
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-15-06, 10:13 PM	1. At 14th level you won't be fighting ancient red dragons. If you are, your DM is incompetent and worthless. Or the players are complete morons. Or both. 2. If you're at 14th level and don't have access to raise dead or better, your characters deserve death for being so horribly unprepared. Also, Ghosts are better than normal characters. What's preventing everyone from committing suicide and adventuring.
Board_Rider 02-15-06, 10:24 PM	Well, since you are obviously a mature person and educated I would like to ask you a few questions. You do know that applying a "goast" (thats ghost) template to a PC drastically empowers the PC right? Secondly, you do know that the Manifestation ability is not permanant right? That the target gets a Will save? You do know that right? If you don't like my opinions then, well, tough orc skulls. :rolleyes:
masterofmayhem 02-16-06, 12:51 AM	You obviuly have never died while facing an Ancheint Red Dragon at 14th level only to lose all you have strived to acheive and aspire to be. I'm sure most people have. Well, maybe not that exact example (Ancient red dragons at level 14 are somewhat rare), but I'm sure most, if not all, people have lost a high level character. 2. If you're at 14th level and don't have access to raise dead or better, your characters deserve death for being so horribly unprepared. Not all campaigns allow any sort of resurrection. Either that, or they severely limit them. :( You do know that applying a "goast" (thats ghost) template to a PC drastically empowers the PC right? Hey, it's only an increase of five levels! Secondly, you do know that the Manifestation ability is not permanant right? That the target gets a Will save? You do know that right? . . . That I did not know . . . But how do they fight if they are dead? stick their stuff in some sort of make shift coffen and it is now ethereal, sort of (for best effect do not remove from coffen). There are rules on the equipment a ghost gets, you know. Ghostly Equipment When a ghost forms, all its equipment and carried items usually become ethereal along with it. In addition, the ghost retains 2d4 items that it particularly valued in life (provided they are not in another creature’s possession). The equipment works normally on the Ethereal Plane but passes harmlessly through material objects or creatures. A weapon of +1 or better magical enhancement, however, can harm material creatures when the ghost manifests, but any such attack has a 50% chance to fail unless the weapon is a ghost touch weapon (just as magic weapons can fail to harm the ghost). The original material items remain behind, just as the ghost’s physical remains do. If another creature seizes the original, the ethereal copy fades away. This loss invariably angers the ghost, who stops at nothing to return the item to its original resting place. also on a side note they cant manifest until the either battle is over or (as i usualy do) untill an hour after the horrid tragidy Wait . . . So you always do this? Are you aware that this virtually guarantees that the party cannot lose a fight? As soon as one of them dies, they come back all phoenix-like with five free levels and the ability to lay down some serious smack. Where does it say that in the Ghost's description? I'm having a bit of trouble finding it . . .
DanjaNinja 02-16-06, 12:57 AM	thanks i thought of it while leafing though the monster manual earlir today. I would like to think this is wothy of going on to the D&D site but thats just me. :) If I have offended anyone with my spelling I hope you get over it. If not well, tough orc skulls then. I feel bad now, since you thanked me. I was making fun of your spelling, too. It's not that it offended me, I just thought it was silly. To be honest, the idea does seem pretty ill-conceived to me. As has been pointed out, the ghost template is quite powerful--handing it out like that leaves it open to abuse (like having all the PCs kill themselves before the big battle). More to the point, I don't think there really is a problem to be answered; characters die. You get over it, or you get resurrected. If you're dieing very often (or facing ancient red dragons at 14th level), then maybe you should get a DM with a better sense of appropriate challenge.
masterofmayhem 02-16-06, 01:13 AM	then maybe you should get a DM with a better sense of appropriate challenge. (He is the DM, you know . . . )
DanjaNinja 02-16-06, 01:24 AM	(He is the DM, you know . . . ) Ah, yes, I guess I missed that subtlety. The point still stands, though.
Vaelan 02-16-06, 07:08 AM	You obviuly have never died while facing an Ancheint Red Dragon at 14th level only to lose all you have strived to acheive and aspire to be. or maby I just dont do settings. Try reading it. It provides a more reasonable method for playing a ghost and even advancing in level as a ghost until you decide to return to life or go on to the True Afterlife. By no means do you lose "all you have strived to achieve". Realy come up with an answer for the masses and this is the thanks I get! Yes, it is. When you submit an idea to an audience, they point out flaws and suggest better ways of doing things. This is a highly effective way of refining an idea.
Balor von Balorvitch 02-16-06, 07:42 AM	Ghost PCs is as lousy as it is brilliant! Being a ghost may help in the short term but long term it gets very cheesy and unfair. Maybe for like 1 surprize where a lich is about to kill the party and all the ghosts of the dead party members come and stop him but even thats been done to death (no pun intended). I don't think this post was ill concived. Its hell of alot better than another 'intelligent debate' on Paladins ethos And if you don't like tough orc skulls! :D (It was worth it just for that!)
Axehammer 02-16-06, 09:30 AM	first: stuff all of ya second: the ghost(thank you for the correct spelling) is NOT permenant third: the dragon thing was muttering. I was a little anoyed (I was trying to solve a problem not make a new setting) forth: where can you find someone to reserect while 8 floors below street without interupting game play. fith: I CAN'T SPELL VERY WELL! (so many dwarven curses so little time) sixth: if you have a better idea, or something to impove on me own, or spot a flaw in my logic tell me. (if you spot a flaw and don't know how to fix it say so) seventh: use common sence people. I tought you might relise that you don't let the players abuse this. eighth: I thought of it yesterday i have not played it yet ninth: it was a general idea. NOT the specifics. tenth: if you are offended by any bad spelling i hope you get over it. if not, well tough orc skulls then!
tennesseefats 02-16-06, 10:00 AM	forth: where can you find someone to reserect while 8 floors below street without interupting game play. This is why our party begged, no...coerced, our cleric into taking scribe scroll. If you would prepare for a dungeon delve by gathering food, torches, equipment, etc., why not prepare for (the hopefully) occasional death? BTW, I have DMed a campaign using Ghostwalk (rather than rezzing the players after a TPK) - it is not, I repeat not, a "new setting" (which shouldn't matter anyway; any d20 book can be used for ideas and useful mechanics to spice up your game. You don't have to have your campaing set in Eberron to appreciate a spell, feat, or even a name that is in the Eberron books). Ghostwalk is a collection of feats, skills, level advancements, and items for characters who are dead. It helps balance ghost PC's so that you can craft appropriate challenges for them (as PCs having the powers of the ghost template will drastically skew any encounter you make). Consider it "Complete Afterlife"; it is a supplement like any of the other Complete books with one exception - you have to be 'dead' for it to be useful. Given that, maybe it's more like the Book of Exalted Deeds - instead of being Exalted, you have to be dead. The Book of Expired Actions or something.
Axehammer 02-16-06, 10:16 AM	I'm not try to debate ghostwalk, or ghostcity thingy, or whatever it is. I don't even have it. this is just an idea for those who don't wish to add that into their campains. before you quote read the WHOLE thing please. if you want me to stop coming up with/sharring ideas just tell me and i will stop. you all realy aren't being so much helpful as annoyingly pesimistic, you're not even giving many (some have, most haven't) ideas on how to improve. (take the good with the bad not every one is nice blah blah friggin blah). please read every word of what i write and take all posible meanings into account before jumping to too many conclusions. it was just an idea wtih out spesifics, and i had hoped that those that read this post might use a little more common sence. (NOT PERMENENT) if you don't like my bad spelling i hope you get over it. if you don't then tough orc skulls!
Board_Rider 02-16-06, 10:25 AM	Listen cheif if you're going to be immature about this then just quit writing about it. Nobody put you down about your "idea", we basically asked you if you knew what you were getting yourself into if you go down this path of allowing your PCs to become ghosts (even if temporarily). So grow up and act like an adult...or at least act a bit more mature. Your idea would have been much more well recieved if you would have put more thought into it and actually thanked people for responding to you. Even if we didn't agree with what you proposed.
yeknom 02-16-06, 10:26 AM	Realy come up with an answer for the masses and this is the thanks I get! Are you serious?
yeknom 02-16-06, 10:29 AM	if you want me to stop coming up with/sharring ideas just tell me and i will stop. Stop, please!
Tyler Do'Urden 02-16-06, 10:52 AM	I think I wanna play an undead barbarian named Goast Templet. Throw him in the pile with Spikey Shillelagh, Thud Crumple, and Fax Modem.
Coldpenguin625 02-16-06, 11:11 AM	I am confused.
The Almighty Dru 02-16-06, 11:40 AM	I think I wanna play an undead barbarian named Goast Templet... No, no, no. That's just his spelling confusing you again. I'm pretty sure he was just typing "goats" too fast. And I think it's supposed to be "templette," as in "a female templar." So, you've heard of the Knights Templar...be prepared to meet the GOATS TEMPLETTE! :D On more serious matter (if this thread could be considered THAT serious)... Having PCs turn into ghosts may be all fine and dandy in your games. Go for it. But it's hardly an "answer for the masses." There are several things to consider: First, from the player's side. Being incorporeal can be extremely inconvienient to those people who need to interact with the physical world on a regular basis (i.e. PCs). Second, now from the DM's side. Becoming a ghost is supposed to be a relatively rare event, due to trauma and unfinished business. And no, not finishing a dungeon crawl does not qualify as "unfinished business." While it may not bother you, many DMs (myself included) may not like the fact that it is so easy to hang around. With this, death becomes even less of a threat than usual. By the time your party becomes experienced, death is little more than an inconvieniece. Third, D&D has the answer built in: resurrection magic. Just about every gamer assumes that every one of their characters will die at least once in their adventuring careers. That's why we keep clerics handy. And as for falling back to resurrect your comrades "interrupting game play": it doesn't. It interrupts hack 'n' slash dungeon crawls, which, I guess, is the only thing you consider "game play." One of the funniest quotes from a game that I've ever heard was the result of waiting in a temple to resurrect someone. That's the game play I want. Finally, somewhat of a reiteration. Where is the fun in the game if there is no risk? What purpose does death serve if every death just results in, "OK, I come back as a ghost. Let's go." Resurrection magic may have somewhat of the same effect, but it's generally more time consuming, giving the players more incentive to not die. Even if being a ghost is just temporary, as you've said, until one can be resurrected, there is still practically no punishment for the character dying, other than possible level loss from raise dead. You might as well turn on god mode. I'm not trying to be offensive with any of this. For one, I'm simply trying to point out that you seem to think you've come up with some brilliant answer, to which there was no question, and to give you insight as to why. For another, I thought it might be worthwhile to say that if you're the DM, and don't want to interrupt your dungeon crawl with the death of a PC, then don't kill them. This could either take the form of fudging the fight, while still making them believe they won, or possibly...not putting them against enemies whose challenge ratings are double theirs. That could help. And as a final note, there is no reason to be so brash with the comments about your spelling. A simple, "Please excuse my spelling," would suffice. If it is going to be otherwise, I'd say to do some more studying. Or at least use spellcheck.
DanjaNinja 02-16-06, 01:36 PM	forth: where can you find someone to reserect while 8 floors below street without interupting game play. This is where the "get over it" part comes in. At any rate, the Almighty Dru sum it up pretty well. You should read their post a few times.
masterofmayhem 02-16-06, 01:51 PM	eighth: I thought of it yesterday i have not played it yet also on a side note they cant manifest until the either battle is over or (as i usualy do) untill an hour after the horrid tragidy You said you had already used it. seventh: use common sence people. I tought you might relise that you don't let the players abuse this. It is as much the DM that abuses it as the PCs. Simply allowing all PCs to become a ghost is an abuse on the part of the DM. Obviously, the PCs are going to take advantage of the free levels if they need to. forth: where can you find someone to reserect while 8 floors below street without interupting game play. At fourteenth level you can teleport to a city, pay for a resurrection, then teleport back. if you want me to stop coming up with/sharring ideas just tell me and i will stop. No, no; keep sharing. Everyone is free to ignore an idea that he/she does not like by simply not going into the thread. I'm sure your post will have helped out at least one DM with a bunch of hack and slashers that was puzzled about how to solve death. Besides, if everyone were to stop sharing because they were afraid they might hurt someone's feelings, or say something stupid, or that their idea might not be well-received . . . well, we wouldn't get a whole lot of new ideas. And every now and then you get one of those really great ideas, sort of a "diamond in the rough" cliche thing.
Axehammer 02-16-06, 04:03 PM	This is the end of it 1. when i said "i usualy do" i put it in the wrong tence. i thought (and still do) that this is a good idea, and i will use it if someone dies saturday. 2. many of you are either stupid, or nitpickers, or something else. No, 14th level pcs should not fight dragons. i an well aware of the capabilatys of 14th level characters. this was an example. my group is only level 6 as a whole. i was looking for something for them to fight when i had the idea (so i am aware of ghost levels and abbilitys). 3. i usulay speak with much exageration and sarcasm. i should have reilised none of you could here me type. 4. i dont own ghost walk (thingy). i have seen it in stores, i have paged through it, it is a setting it. as with all settings they can be addapted with out useing all of the matterial. 5. this idea was made to balance exess money after a death be giving it to someone else, to get the player back in the game faster with their new character (something many of you seemed not to get), while making in game sence. 6. this was to be a fondation for more, possibly bigger, better (no coments), ideas. if you don't want to use it don't. but it can fit anywhere so it is AN (A not THE answer) answer for the masses. 7. though i thank those with positive imput, i had assumed that those with the almighty power of DM might ADDAPT my idea to suit level needs and in general mechanics as well as not let players abuse it (if ALL of the players die they stay dead). I have not yet begun to abuse anything. 8. as i mentiond in 5. the new ghost templte improved character is temporarry. which is what i ment by not permenent. as in you get rid of it. 9. not all partys have a cleric so it works good for them (unless they have a mage that can cast raise dead [ha ha ha i said it before any of you could]). and i refuse to force anyone to play a class or race they don't wish to (with in all reason of my DMing exeriance). 10. as to my matureity level. my only responce is: Thank you Captain Obvious! 11. as for the way i apoligize for my spelling... i'm a dwarf. a druid dwarf. this the last post i will be making on this subject unless some one dies saturday (i can name 2 that deserve it). i wil continue to post other places and on other things, both to **** those people off that tell me to stop posting and because i don't know when to keep my mouth shut. i thank those that were halfway (an wholeway) supportive and had somewhat (and completly) productive critisims! so until next time: if you don't like my miss spellings i hope you get over it. if not, then tough orc skulls
Board_Rider 02-16-06, 04:14 PM	10. as to my matureity level. my only responce is: Thank you Captain Obvious! Thats Captain Obvious Sir to you pal. Learn to spell and learn to respond properly before you come and try to take on the big boys. Telling someone that they are stupid is probably not going to get you any respect either bud. Get some thicker skin, a dictionary and a clue. Remember, aside from some gentle ribbing, we gave nothing but our opinions.
BeyondFated 02-16-06, 09:38 PM	Realy come up with an answer for the masses and this is the thanks I get! I wasn't aware that we masses needed such an answer. Infact, I still don't think we do...
Shotgun_badger 02-16-06, 10:03 PM	Ok Slappy, you want a real reason it won't work here ya go. According to most (I'll assume the source rules follow this, but it may honestly be a house rule to limit things like this) stories ghosts only come if there is a HUGE amount of unfinished baggage on the material world that the dead left, or if the dead was feeling a surge of emotion, and traditionally is locked in this emotion. So in short sure make your lil character become a ghost, just have a good reason. I want to keep playing isn't a good reason, just saying that in advance.
DanjaNinja 02-16-06, 10:10 PM	Axehammer, a few tips. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just trying to make you a better poster. 1. First, do work on that spelling. It's your voice on these forums, and numerous and egregious misspellings make people (unconciously or otherwise) take you less seriously. You wouldn't have conversations with people saying things in funny accents or with incorrect pronunciation; it's the same deal. 2. Secondly, do grow a thicker skin. People will criticize what you post. Get over it. People will also poke fun at you (or worse). Get over it, and if you think it breaks the CoC, report it. Only very rarely will people praise something you post, so don't come here looking to have your ego stroked. It's just the nature of the game. 3. Thirdly, do not insult people. It really only hurts your credibility, in the end.
Coldpenguin625 02-16-06, 10:50 PM	11. as for the way i apoligize for my spelling... i'm a dwarf. a druid dwarf. Yes, of course...why did I ever question that? :rolleyes:
masterofmayhem 02-16-06, 11:06 PM	1. when i said "i usualy do" i put it in the wrong tence. i thought (and still do) that this is a good idea, and i will use it if someone dies saturday. Before you leave, I'm curious . . . How was that the wrong tense? Changing the tense to, say, future, or past, doesn't really make any difference in that it imples you have already used it . . . :confused:
Coldpenguin625 02-16-06, 11:39 PM	Before you leave, I'm curious . . . How was that the wrong tense? Changing the tense to, say, future, or past, doesn't really make any difference in that it imples you have already used it . . . :confused: He can't even spell tense...I'd doubt he's capable of using it.
masterofmayhem 02-17-06, 04:30 PM	No need for outright bashing, man. Besides, just because someone has a poor grasp of mechanics does not make them stupid. Most assuredly not. I have a friend who is quite intelligent, yet simply doesn't get the finer points of semantics and grammar (either that, or he doesn't care ;)), and his spelling is horrendous. Well, since you are obviously a mature person and educated I would like to ask you a few questions. Secondly, you do know that the Manifestation ability is not permanant right? That the target gets a Will save? You do know that right? Board Rider, where did you see this? I was unable to find it in the SRD.
Deacon Liadon 02-17-06, 06:35 PM	8. As I mentiond in 5, the new ghost template improved character is temporary; which is what I meant by not permanent; as in, you get rid of it. Criticism: Why would the player want to voluntarily give up all those cool new abilities you've just given him? This is a problem you could easily run into if you decided to use the ghost template. The player could easily decide that he's having more fun with his PC dead than he was when his PC was alive. For you to then remove these abilities as the player was beginning to enjoy using them would be unfair on the player and could well result in bad feelings between the two of you.
Board_Rider 02-18-06, 01:22 AM	Board Rider, where did you see this? I was unable to find it in the SRD. I read the info on the Will save on page 118 of the 3.5 Monster Manual ( DC15 + Cha modifier). As I read the text of the ghost I assume it is not permanent. If I am wrong...well...damn.
Brizzt_Burden 02-18-06, 01:04 PM	Thats Captain Obvious Sir to you pal. :rofl:
masterofmayhem 02-20-06, 12:36 PM	I read the info on the Will save on page 118 of the 3.5 Monster Manual ( DC15 + Cha modifier). As I read the text of the ghost I assume it is not permanent. If I am wrong...well...damn. Any will save requires something to save against, which requires something to affect the person making the saving throw. Manifestation only indirectly affects them (in that you are now able to hit them), and does not target them, so there is no will save. Plus the text for that particular ability mentions nothing of a will save.
Board_Rider 02-20-06, 01:51 PM	Any will save requires something to save against, which requires something to affect the person making the saving throw. Manifestation only indirectly affects them (in that you are now able to hit them), and does not target them, so there is no will save. Plus the text for that particular ability mentions nothing of a will save. Perhaps I have the wrong ability. I will check it out and get back to you. EDIT: It wasn't Manifestation, it was Malevolence....oops. Hey if WoTC editors can make mistakes (or let mistakes get by) can't I? ;)
masterofmayhem 02-20-06, 03:04 PM	Hey if WoTC editors can make mistakes (or let mistakes get by) can't I? ;) Silence your blasphemous tongue! WotC editors are infallible!! ;) :D