Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the_growly_DM 10-04-07, 11:39 PM	A while ago now my level 6 players, comprising 2 drow (ranger and rogue), a goliath Psychic worrior, a ghost, a human warlock and a watered down succubus, were beating every fair ECL i could throw at them so i dropped an abyssal greater bassilisk on them and they trounced that too. the main way they were able to do so is the wrlock put a mortal-bane globe of darkness on the thing while the goliath took blind swings at it to stop it from running out of the darkness. the surrounding characters got some decent but mostly lucky pot shots to hit from outside the globe and the thing was down in about 4 rounds. did i stuff something up or did a CR12 creature actually get beaten fair and square? the whole basis of their vicotry is i believe that a Bassilisk's petrifying gaze has to make eye contact so the darkness negates it but is it more like a beholder's eye ray that works regardless? Fyi they are now all around Level 12 and i am considering putting them in the middle of the Abyss to get something of a challange.. might settle for a very big dragon though
AnonymousInternets 10-05-07, 12:02 AM	They're clearly very high-powered characters. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. You just gotta give them harder challenges. Instead of giving them one big baddie, give them a bunch. Make your own squad of level 12 characters and duke it out, myes?
Decoy_Lockbox 10-05-07, 02:20 AM	Are you doing their ECLs right? If I recall, ghost has a very nasty level adjustment. If you have ignored the level adjustments it might contribute slightly to your problems. Characters can occasionally overcome extreme challenges using clever or rules-abusing tactics. Its part of the fun of the game. For example, a 4 person party of level 4 characters managed to shatter the Madstone in the current Eberron game I am in by clever use of rope trick. Just be glad you don't have a cleric, druid or wizard you have to deal with.
the_growly_DM 10-05-07, 07:39 AM	Are you doing their ECLs right? If I recall, ghost has a very nasty level adjustment. If you have ignored the level adjustments it might contribute slightly to your problems. Characters can occasionally overcome extreme challenges using clever or rules-abusing tactics. Its part of the fun of the game. For example, a 4 person party of level 4 characters managed to shatter the Madstone in the current Eberron game I am in by clever use of rope trick. Just be glad you don't have a cleric, druid or wizard you have to deal with. the ghost player is a major power gamer. the ghost has been watered down just enough in HP and saves to be appropriate level 6 (at the time) he changed characters though when i set them up against a temple of dwarven clerics. dwarven high priest uses turn undead to vanquish the warlock's skellies and POOF! gohst is suddenly not so great. he started playing an Ogre when the game progressed into an underdark setting. now that's been challange time. enemies they can't see with sleep poison and other nastyness. my turn for control. FYI, while the dwarves tried to banish the succubus, the warlock's undead slaves and, without knowing, the ghost, the two drow snuck around the back way and robbed them blind. good times.
Trench_Raider 10-05-07, 12:26 PM	A while ago now my level 6 players, comprising 2 drow (ranger and rogue), a goliath Psychic worrior, a ghost, a human warlock and a watered down succubus, were beating every fair ECL i could throw at them so i dropped an abyssal greater bassilisk on them and they trounced that too. Well, there is a large part of your problem right there. You permitted all those exotic a high powered monster race characters. I tell you, sometimes I think that "Savage Species" book should be burned. Does anyone actually play normal or traditional characters any more or is the "celestial, half-dragon haf unicorn vampire lich" the rule these days? And people sometimes wonder why my campaign is core only.... "Trench Raider"
Krusk 10-05-07, 12:49 PM	You are using one monster vs 6 pcs? of course your Pcs are going to win. First off, CR is based off a party of 4 characters. Youve got more than that, so you should probably be throwing them against CR 8 encounters as average. Just a rough guess. Second, I almost never throw one giant monster at a group of PCs of more than 3 PCs. They either kill it befor it gets a turn, they kill it after one or two inneffective turns, or lastly it kills everyone and dosnt get hit. Send multiple CR 6 or 7 opponents against your PCs and the fights will last a lot longer than 1 CR 12. And third, you are using 2 drow, a goliath, a ghost and a succubus. I'm not saying don't have exotic characters in the party. -i hate it but whatever-. What i am saying is that i would be willing to bet money you are using some rule about those races wrong somewhere. go back and make sure you are doing them right. also maybe youve given out too much treasure, try scaling that back for a bit and see if it helps.
Grod_The_Giant 10-05-07, 03:25 PM	yeah. A party of 6 level 6s should be facing level 7.2 foes. I DM for a party of 5, and my general rule of thumb an appropriate CR is their level+1, more for single monsters. With big parties, the best thing to do for big single-monster fights is to have a strong monster with several decently strong underlings (elementals are good for this- high health and attack, reasonable damage, and not-excessive CRs).
1337Ninja 10-05-07, 03:33 PM	Erk. Ghosts cannot be watered down. They are hilariously overpowered as PCs due to their incorporeality. Seriously. Appropriate of level 6? As in, you gave him no LA? I bloody well hope not...
RobbyPants 10-05-07, 03:45 PM	the whole basis of their vicotry is i believe that a Bassilisk's petrifying gaze has to make eye contact so the darkness negates it but is it more like a beholder's eye ray that works regardless? Well, darkness doesn't make the area pitch black anymore, but rather makes shadowy illumination (20% concealment). Basically, darkness would only negate the gaze attack 20% of the time. Per the SRD on Gaze Attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#gazeAttacks): If visibility is limited (by dim lighting, a fog, or the like) so that it results in concealment, there is a percentage chance equal to the normal miss chance for that degree of concealment that a character won’t need to make a saving throw in a given round. This chance is not cumulative with the chance for averting your eyes, but is rolled separately. So if the PCs were doing nothing to avert their eyes. there'd be an 80% chance that they should have met his gaze. You inadvertantly softballed the encounter. Other than that, I agree that the wierd mix of mid/high LA PCs is probably a lot of the problem.
Grumman 10-05-07, 03:59 PM	So if the PCs were doing nothing to avert their eyes. there'd be an 80% chance that they should have met his gaze. If they were willing to accept 100% concealment due to Darkness, doesn't that imply they would have been willing to accept the 100% concealment from closing their eyes? The only difference is that they would only have 20% concealment from the basilisk, but they'd still be blind, and still be immune to the gaze effect.