Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Revenant07 12-10-07, 03:39 AM	Wow...I am confused. The puzzle is either so simple and I'm just thinking about it too hard or WoTC really sucks at writing. Or maybe, I am just dumb :D Ok, so my understanding is this: the tiles that are on the floor are images on the beholders eyes on the door. 3,4,5,6 are out of order, so all the players have to do is look at the image on the door and match up the images, yes? If so, I can't believe it's that simple. The players don't even have to read the riddle, all they have to do is look at the symbols...? The symbols themselves are pretty ambiguous. It says the 9th tile is the person casting charm enemies, how does raising his hands indicate charming an enemy? I also don't understand the picture where the guy has 3 little lightning bolt thingy's under his feet.
pukunui 12-10-07, 03:50 AM	Yes, it really is that simple (although getting into the puzzle room is not, since the module never explains how you're supposed to open the door ... :rolleyes:). However, the puzzle is seriously the least of your worries in this adventure. I ran my players through it and the PCs fell like flies. For one thing, it's 100% linear, so there's only ever two ways you can go (forward or back) and there are a number of very overpowered monsters (some of which are wounded, which somehow makes it all right for them to be included ... :nonono:) that will either kill all the PCs because the terrain really favors them or else prevent the PCs from continuing the adventure because there's no way to get past without killing them (tomb spider, I'm looking at you! :rant:). Definitely get rid of the runehound if you haven't done so already. I don't know what they were thinking putting that thing in there. The varag fight will be tough as well but doable. The wounded constructs are tough but beatable as well. As for the tomb spider, I'd recommend replacing it with a regular monstrous spider. Even a Huge one would probably be easier than that thing. The tomb spider is the most powerful thing in the dungeon, even more powerful than the tomb's unique guardian and the BBEG ... Finally, the reward for successfully completing the adventure is overpowered even as far as legacy weapons are concerned. A 4th level character should not be running around with a +1 adamantine longsword. Even without its legacy abilities, it's caused me several headaches.
Zarith 12-10-07, 09:33 AM	As pukunui says it really is straightforward, I think the text on the door leads to more confusion then aid is solving the riddle. Like all riddles/puzzles, you either have someone who figures it out quickly or it becomes something that stops gameplay for a while until they muck through it. The images are a little confusing if you try to match up the abilities to the image, I think the arms thing is like "welcoming with open arms" or demonstrating that you mean no harm (no weapons) and the "lightning" is supposed to represent the telekinesis ability. The sword is a little too much, I changed it to cold iron and changed the abilities that are gained as the character gains in power.
Revenant07 12-10-07, 12:34 PM	Ahh, thanks. Pukunui and Zarith, how did your group like the adventure? Were they immensely bored or did they think it was OK? I was planning on continuing this with the sequels DD2 and DD3.
Zarith 12-10-07, 12:55 PM	Ahh, thanks. Pukunui and Zarith, how did your group like the adventure? Were they immensely bored or did they think it was OK? I was planning on continuing this with the sequels DD2 and DD3. They haven't finished it yet (just started actually, we play every other week, slows things down). I plan to run all three as well. I think they like it and will like the sequals it doesn't have a lot of opportunity to Role Play (DD2 does more then the others) but we're a hack and slash crowd with very little time on our hands so this works out well for us. I expect a TPK at the end of the series (not intentional, just guessing going on my players gaming style, but you never know)
Prom 12-10-07, 02:04 PM	Hi Revenant07, I've played BotFK with Pukunui, personally I liked the game, except that Tomb spider. The time constraint is a little tricky, as we had to rest often and you can't really without the bad guy's leaving before your party. The hazards a character has to get past actually provide roleplay options that can be rather funny if not painful. We had about two characters fall and hurt themselves, one after the other moving across the pillars in the huge cave (it was raining men and dwarfs). A few characters got zapped in the beholder room when they tryed to figure out the puzzle. The undead Troll or Ogre, bashed the first character down and leding to a archery contest that lasted a while ("who's shooting next, I've run out of arrows"). The magic maze well it's frustrating and dangerous, but doable. The Varag fight was really tough, we only scrapped by. This is a dungeon with a straight line basically. Prom
pukunui 12-10-07, 03:47 PM	There you go - that's how one of my players liked it. I'm not sure how the other two liked it because they've left the group since then. This adventure had a high attrition rate for my group (although admittedly one PC committed suicide and Prom's cleric PC accidentally killed one of his mates with a cure spell thanks to the tomb spider's energy-switcheroo thing. Another was killed by two very lucky criticals from a pair of fiendish dire weasels that appeared in the maze and got the jump on the PC, tearing his throat out and killing him instantly in one go ... :(). My assessment is that it reads well but doesn't play well. It's rather poorly designed in execution. It could've been a lot better (and a lot less linear). I mean, the tomb spider damn near ended the campaign right then and there - not just because of a potential TPK but because if they couldn't kill it, they couldn't get past it, and therefore couldn't continue with the adventure. And yet they managed to kill the Betrayer, who's meant to be sort of the climactic encounter guy, fairly easily.
Zarith 12-10-07, 05:08 PM	Hey Revenant07, do you know of these maps for Barrow? They're great quality(You can thank Bavix) and they really add a lot to the game. I printed them on card stock and it really helps with atmosphere and it keeps things moving (no drawing/erasing maps). http://rpgmapshare.com/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=16003&g2_GALLERYSID=TMP_SESSION_ID_DI_NOISSES_ PMT I agree, it is a little linear (ok, very) and the authors make some assuptions as to how the players handle things (I think they are supposed to get info about the spider from the waterfall guardian, but that assumes they are really nice to him).
solbergb 12-11-07, 01:57 PM	Hm. We did the entire thing in a marathon session with a party of six made up of mostly 3-4th level characters and one 5th level character. Per the module guidelines we passed out XP halfway through, but we had only one good character so most of us did the entire run without any spell recovery etc beyond extra spells for levelingup. I remember the beholder puzzle as being incoherent and we were surprised that the first thing we tried worked. I also remember saying later "I can't pick this lock, lets look for a key" and finding a guardian that when searched....had a key. Nice that they remembered. The most challenging battles for us were the one right around the fountain and the running fight at the end, where we likely triggered several encounters at once, plus the final battle. The underwater swarms were nasty too, although being fiendish we did most of the killing by opening holy water vials inside of them. (this did use up most of our holy water for the adventure, but it was worth it) A lot of what made it challenging was that after the first third or so, the barbarians were out of rage and the spellcasters were pretty much working from wands and scrolls. As mentioned above, the adventure is linear AND has some time pressure, as you are pursuing others into the tomb. Because of this we felt from a roleplay perspective, we really couldn't take time to rest or restock. Luckily we came well equipped for a long crawl. One thing we did have was tons of healing. Everyone had a wand of CLW, so we just dusted everybody off after the fight and never entered another wounded. All of the casters brought a fair number of scrolls. Most party members were capable of contributing without spells too, which also allowed us to approach it as a marathon. We'd made friends with the water guardian and the tomb spider was challenging but not over the top. Had we not been prepared, that would have been horrible. That fight used up the last of our consumables (holy water, flasks of oil/alch fire, scroll magic stone, scroll spider climb, a couple enlarge scrolls or potions) and we went in prepared. Lingering buffs from that fight is why we turned the next stage into a running battle...trying to get the most out of them before they faded. We enjoyed it but that was as much party dynamics as anything else. We had some interparty rivalries and a mix of reckless vs cautious characters that allowed for some fun incharacter bickering and recriminations while the DM was drawing out the next section. At a tactical level doing a really, really long 'day' was a real change from what we normally do in Living Greyhawk so that had some interest by itself. (episodic adventures, rarely more than 3 hard fights in one day). I was playing a trapfinding tank, so I had plenty to do. The grey elf wizard ended up with the weapon of legacy because he was the only good aligned character proficient with longsword. That was pretty funny. I enjoyed it enough that I'll play the sequels if they are adapted to LG. My Barrow char is level 5, which I think is an OK level for part 2.
Revenant07 12-11-07, 09:53 PM	Hey, thanks for all the replies everyone.
pukunui 12-12-07, 01:55 AM	Hey, thanks for all the replies everyone. No worries. Good luck with it. I wouldn't mind reading a recap of your experience with the adventure, if you've got time to post it.