Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nemezote 09-19-07, 02:08 AM	Hello :D I was thinking of introducing a BBEG to my campaign, but I wanted him to be able to "solo" the party, i mean, without necessarily ressorting to Summon Monster or minions and such. So I was wondering what kind of BBEG ( Im talking STATS here ) Would be appropiate for a party of 5 lvl 3 characters. I wanted him to be able to solo the party, because in my opinion it makes it more meaningful than if he constantly depended on minions and all that sort of "im to evil to fight you directly" thing. Dunno why, but the guy from FF X comes to mind, what was his name...? Well HE could solo the party allright...
1337Ninja 09-19-07, 03:56 AM	It doesn't really work to have a straight-up fight, Final Fantasy style. Basically, if he's average strength or better, then you WILL get casualties. The BBEG WILL hack apart your PCs mercilessly before dying. On the flip side, if he's weaker than average, he'll die horribly before he even gets his turn. BBEGs shouldn't be able to take challenge the party properly by themselves. Of course, this is just from my personal experience. I could well be wrong. Also, is it Seymour? I HATE him. I've tried to kill that guy about 20 times, and he always annihilates everyone. Grrr!
Escef 09-19-07, 06:54 AM	In order to solo the party the BBEG needs to have strong defenses against every possible attack the party has. Not necessarily unsurmountable, just strong. For example, a 3rd level fighter could be expected to have a total attack bonus of +8 with his favored weapon (+3 BAB, +3 Str, +1 weapon focus, +1 magic). In order to defeat this, the BBEG should have an AC in the vicinity of 23 (something the fighter could only hit on a 15+). Spellslingers should have save DCs in the mid teens (2 for spell level, 3 for stat, 10 base is a total of 15, maybe 1 or 2 more with spell focus feats). For a party of 5 level 3 PCs, a CR of 3 or 4 should be standard (consuming 20%, about a fifth, of the party's resources). Given that you want a nearly overwhelming opponent, you'd want something along the lines of a CR 6 or 7. With the right stats and feats, this should be easy, as even weak saves are at +2 by this point. Example: Human Fighter4/Wizard2, HD 4d10+8+2d4+4+6(average hp 45), Str 13, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 13, Saves Fort +5 Ref +4 Wil +5, Feats: Weapon Focus(short sword), weapon Specialization(short sword), Quickdraw, Lightning Reflexes, Two-weapon fighting, Improved Toughness, weapon finesse, Spells Prepared: True Strike, Shield, Armor. Fully buffed, this guy has an AC of 22, and makes two attacks at +7 each for d6+3 and d6+2, and should be able to make his saves at least as often as not. If you want true nastiness, make him a great sword wielder with power attack instead of a two-weapon fighter, the battle will be shorter.
Andorxor 09-19-07, 07:05 AM	Your BBEG would have a lot less actions than your party,it will be really hard to create one that can survive that and don't kills the whole party with his attacks.
nemezote 09-19-07, 08:28 AM	Thanks for your answers :D Yes, i know it is hard not to kill the party when its only one strong enemy, but I dunno, I want to experiment by not sendind minions every time, im gonna try new things, maybe ill just whip the BBEG one in a while or something. As far as killing the party goes, that doesent really interest me (they can get killed themselves, no need for help =P ) if I score a critical hit, for example, and that would instantly kill a PC (-10 HP) I probablly would lie about it and say it just got him to -3, so the party can stabilize him and run away. The most important thing to me is not killing the PCs, but giving them a sense of complete evilness and power beyond theirs, so when the time comes that they can actually beat the BBEG, its that more meaningful. BTW: Here are my rolls on the BBEG. 18 14 15 21 15 22 Where do you think I should put them? I was thinking of making a Fighter/Wizard, or something like that, maybe a blackguard, dunno.
Way_of_the_Seven_Primes 09-19-07, 08:36 AM	For the sake of balance, you should not really use rolls for npcs. Use the arrays given in the DMG. The elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, I think) is what you would use for your BBEG. Just apply any racial/template/??? modifiers to these scores. I have caused enough TPKs to know that use of the arrays can balance an unbalanced bbeg (along with a bit of common sense).
Teh_username 09-19-07, 09:00 AM	If you want something capable of taking on the party solo, go for the villain so classic it's in the name of the game. :D Dragon.
runestar 09-19-07, 09:26 AM	To solo the party and not get ripped to shreds in an instant, it should be around cr4-5 at least, but I hesitate to raise it to cr6 as that might result in the death of at least 1-2 PCs. I am thinking maybe a choker with a few lvs of crusader... Try this creation for size (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=845610). Mind you - it is from the CO boards, so it might be deceptively strong, even for a cr6...:P
nemezote 09-19-07, 09:34 AM	Awwww...but I LIKED my rolls...Ok :D Also, keep in mind that the first few times the BBEG appears it will be in a "ill kick your asses but no kill you, so that you may live to die another day" kind of thing. So using the elite array, what kind of BBEG could I make? Also, what are some interesting templates out there?
gixanthrax 09-19-07, 10:12 AM	mhm interesting templates: spellwarped: gives SR and absorption plus it boosts the stats and increases nat armor, and that for a LA of 1 Dark: Increases speed, boost hide and move silently and gives HIPS if you want a sneaky villain also LA 1
RobbyPants 09-19-07, 10:13 AM	In order to solo the party the BBEG needs to have strong defenses against every possible attack the party has. Not necessarily unsurmountable, just strong. Your BBEG would have a lot less actions than your party,it will be really hard to create one that can survive that and don't kills the whole party with his attacks. These are both good points. If you want your BBEG to go solo against the PCs, he needs to be able to survive, and he can't waste the first round or two buffing. This means that the BBEG needs some way to tell that the PCs (or any real threats) are near, so he can spend several rounds drinking potions, casting spells, or whatever it is he does to raise his defenses and mobility. Don't forget that last part. Sometimes the best defense is simply staying out of harms way to begin with. Your melee fighter PC won't be thrilled when the BBEG takes flight. To have the fight be tough, but not outright overwhelming and deadly, your BBEG needs to have much better defenses than offenses. Spells, abilities, and items that can incapacitate several PCs are of paramount importance. Once the fight starts, if the BBEG can tie up a few PCs in a Web or Evard's Black Tenticles, then he can survive longer. Also, a great way to increases the BBEG's numbers without summons is to use Suggestion, Dominate Person, and similar effects to get one or two of the PCs on his side! Suddenly, the party's wizard is focusing all his save-or-lose spells in the party's fighter instead of the BBEG.
nemezote 09-19-07, 11:32 AM	:D Thats exactly what I was thinking. I thought of giving him flight capabilities, mainly because most of my melee characters have sub-standard ranged BABs. I dont want to completely kill the party, I just want them to have to THINK how to defeat or at least survive. Im saying this because most of the role players I know just charge ahead and hack and slash. And rest asured, most of the time the BBEG will know the players are coming. Now I just have to think what class/classes he will have, as well as a template.
Far_Traveler 09-19-07, 11:47 AM	Problem: Why would this villian not kill the PCs? Obviously, this stretches plausibility. So be sure to provide some reason. I prefer some plot thing, such as he cannot kill more then 100 people or he lsoes his collossal power, and he used up some of them without realising exactly how little people that is. So, most of the time he uses nonlethal stuff and only on REAL obstacles to his evil plan (to lose the restriction without losing his power, so he may rule the world) so the first few times he will not kill the PCs and uttrely destroy them, and in the last few fights he can't kill them, so he tries.
Rogue Shadows 09-19-07, 12:36 PM	As much as all the stats above are important, a BBEG has to be able to do things above and beyond stats. Ideally, the players confront her only at the time or place of her choosing, after she's had pleanty of time to prepare beforehand, and in a location where her specific power selections will be most useful. Depending on alignment, she might be waiting to begin honored combat (some LE and some CE), or she might be lurking in the shadows waiting to strike (Some LE, some CE, and 99% of NE). This is an excellent time to throw curveballs at your players. For example, you mentioned you don't want summoned monsters. But how would you feel about the BEEG having 4 Quaal's Feather Tokens (Whip), only instead of whips, they're scourges? Now they can deal 1d8 real damage on their own. Let's get an example of a BBEG fight I had. Before describing the actual fight, it's important to know as much about the BBEG as possible. Let's use my favorite one... Tohya Miho, Queen of Vampires http://asapf.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/0884-2.jpg NE Female Human [Vampire] Shadowcaster 13 Below is Tohya's background information. It is relevent, but S-blocked off so that you can ignore it if you like. In the campaign, a powerful vampire named Nacthzehrar was attemtping to revive an ancient vampire queen, Tohya Miho, and bind her power to his own in order to take over the world. At the same time, he was looking for the Ring of Vrykolakas, which was a ring that basically made vampires have absolutely none of their weaknesses anymore - including normal undead weaknesses, such as vulnerability to spells like seering light. In order to accomplish his goal of bringing Tohya back to life, Nachtzehrar needed to unite her consciousness, which had taken the form of a raven after her defeat five hundred years ago, with the physical reincarnation of her - a young girl named Ariana. It is worth noting that Tohya Miho was killed by St. Pirogoeth and St. Largo after a long and terrible battle. There is a statue errected within the Drakenmoor to these two brave heroes. The campaign began with Ariana being kidnapped by a winter wolf necromancer named Arraska, and the players were sent out to resuce her. Along the way, they learned about the Ring of Vrykolakas, but were unable to stop Nachtzehrar's minions from obtaining it. And, by the time they reached Nachtzehrar's fortress - the Castle Drakenmoor - it was also too late to save Ariana, who ahd already been vamp'd and had just now been stripped of her own consciousness, and had it replaced by Tohya's. However, Nachtzehrar had overlooked a critical part of the ritual to bring Tohya back to life, mostly because Tohya had written the ritual herself and purposefully left it out: In addition to her mind and a new body, she would need a new soul. She took Nachtzehrar's by draning him of blood, killing him. The PC's arrived just in time to see Tohya take the Ring from Nachtzehrar's dusting corpse and slip it on. She took one look at the characters, said "I don't feel like playing right now..." in that too-sane voice, and gaseous form'd away. The players eventually track her down to her home, the Castle Shikage. Tohya had gone through the castle and retrieved all of her old equipment, including the Quaal's Scourges I mentioned above. She made some comment about how she was hardly going to fight the heores just for the sake of fighting them; she was Immortal and could simply afford to wait for them to die before making any moves. However, one of them insulted her just as she was gaseous forming away again. She re-formed, looking over her shoulder with sword drawn, and said "Maybe I am a little hungry..." Battle begins. As a 13th-level human Shadowcaster vampire protected by the Ring of Vrykolakas, Tohya was a CR 16 encounter (+2 for being a vampire, +1 for the Ring). The players, when they challenged her, were at level 14. THE SETTING Tohya is a vampire that lacks all the normal vampire and undead weaknesses (except, of course, desire for blood, but that's not really a weakness), but retains all of their strengths. However, as a Shadowcaster, she still has much more to gain when fighting in the night rather than fighting in the day. Thus, the battle begins at night. The actual field of battle itself was the Church section of Castle Shikage. The Church was huge - fifty feet wide (10 squares) and a hundred and fifty feet long (30 squares) and fifty feet tall (10 squares) It had two stories; the lower one was peppered with pews and seats that obstructed ground movement. The lower floor also contained a part at the end that was raised from the rest, which included an alter. The upper story was a 15-foot-wide balcony that wrapped around the entire place. The balcony itself was 15 feet off the ground. There were torches every now and then to provide shadowy illumination. Also, there were a number of tapestries that draped from the balcony down to nearly floor level on the first floor; these could be climbed. THE FIGHT Despite being a primary caster, Tohya was a decent fighter, since I had used 40 points to build her (the average of my party, which had rolled its stats), before applying the modifiers to scores due to being a vampire. I had also used her human bonus feat to give her proficiency with the longsword, and she wielded a +1 keen frost longsword, specifically because most creatures up until now had favored fire, not frost, damage over other energy types, so my players had invested in that. She had, before combat, activated a number of protective items in order to give herself defensive bonuses, including a brooch of shielding to get around annoying magic missiles. She also had several magical items to enable excellent flight. The first thing she did when comabt began - she won initiative thanks to high dexterity and Improved Initiative - was to activate her ring of invisibility and then fly upwards using her boots of levitation. The following round, she loosed her two hair ribbons, which were in fact the Quaal's Scourges that I mentioned earlier. Not an attack action, so it didn't affect her invisibility, though she did have to move again in order to avoid giving away her position. On her third round, she used two Gems of Night to summon two Large Shadow elementals, and only then did she finally draw her sword and begin casting. The rest of combat centered on her using her ability to control the illumination of the area to her utmost advantage - striking from darkness, using her scrolls and other items (most especially her shadow storm scrolls) for outright damage, and using her Shadow elementals and Quaal's Scourges to grapple opponents, then she'd join in in order to bite and slam to deal negative levels of damage. Her fast healing came in pleanty handy as well. Two characters died by the end of combat (neither from attacks that would vamp them), when she was finally taken out by a well-timed Fireball to her face. After that, she gaseous form'd out a window, and the surviving characters spent the next hour frantically trying to find her coffin in the Castle. When they found her asleep, she began to beg for mercy, but the players killed her, then took the bodies of their fallen comrades and headed back for their home village, content that while they did not save Ariana, at least her soul could rest in peace. ... ...meanwhile, at the statue to the two Saints who killed Tohya originally, a carridge pulled up about an hour before dawn, and a vampire cleric who the players had faced a few times but who had escaped - Lord Dumos - stepped from it. A few minutes later, a hand burst from the ground, and Tohya unearthed herself from there. As she did, she looks up at Dumos and said "I told you making that clone was worth the expense." Dumos replies, "I never objected to the making of the clone - only the killing of the Necromancer who did so afterwards. He might still of been useful." "I do not take risks," Tohya responded. Tohya unearths her coffin and loads it onto the carrige, then gets in with Lord Dumos.
runestar 09-19-07, 09:43 PM	Are we forgetting that the OP's party is only 3rd lv?
Return of the Flumph 09-19-07, 11:57 PM	Wyrmling or very young dragon.
Always-Late 09-20-07, 12:10 AM	Wyrmling or very young dragon. With a box of explosives. For a few rounds, he flies around and throw bombs. Then he runs out and leaves.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-20-07, 12:49 AM	Hello :D I was thinking of introducing a BBEG to my campaign, but I wanted him to be able to "solo" the party, i mean, without necessarily ressorting to Summon Monster or minions and such. So I was wondering what kind of BBEG ( Im talking STATS here ) Would be appropiate for a party of 5 lvl 3 characters. I wanted him to be able to solo the party, because in my opinion it makes it more meaningful than if he constantly depended on minions and all that sort of "im to evil to fight you directly" thing. Dunno why, but the guy from FF X comes to mind, what was his name...? Well HE could solo the party allright... Seymour? Didn't he have two back-up alchemist lackeys the first time you fought him? I recall that he could solo the party with his aeon, he just didn't bother to while he had two perfectly good lackeys on hand. All BBEGs should have cannon fodder. Even if they're just there to get in the way, or just summoned monsters. If you really want to get nasty and pose a moral quandary, have them be dominated villagers or friends of the party. The BBEG's class, feats, and spells should be whatever you feel is appropriate for that BBEG, and they're ultimately gravy (since this guy is several levels higher than the party and should simply be dishing out lots of damage every round) unless they blatantly affect combat. Anyways, as long as the BBEG's CR is 2-8 higher than the party's average level, he should be perfectly capable of soloing them. However, he doesn't have to solo them, and probably shouldn't because he'll slaughter a few PCs in doing so. Final Fantasy I-style boss fights were fine back in the day, but the boss fights you see in Final Fantasy X are all very memorable and highly tactical. FFX could still get away with the Big Monster vs. PCs boss fight due to the variable-speed turn-based combat system it used, but D&D cannot. (Well, okay, you could give him extra actions each round, the Colossal Red Dragon mini gets several activations each round in which it performs a limited set of abilities.) Because of this, you need to give your BBEG extra actions each round in whatever form is appropriate, be it weak underlings, a few strong monsters, summon spells, some kind of initiative-based environmental effect (like an active lightning storm), or whatever it takes to keep it from being "yet another boss fight" or a total party kill.
nemezote 09-20-07, 07:22 PM	Problem: Why would this villian not kill the PCs? Obviously, this stretches plausibility. So be sure to provide some reason. I prefer some plot thing, such as he cannot kill more then 100 people or he lsoes his collossal power, and he used up some of them without realising exactly how little people that is. So, most of the time he uses nonlethal stuff and only on REAL obstacles to his evil plan (to lose the restriction without losing his power, so he may rule the world) so the first few times he will not kill the PCs and uttrely destroy them, and in the last few fights he can't kill them, so he tries. That was bound to be asked ;) Te thing is, Im new to this whole DM thing, so I havent thought out everything, yet. The reason the BBEG would not kill the party, at least in the first few encounters, is because he needs them, you know, typical plot thing, he needs them to do something he cant do, but of course the party doesnt know that, and in fact learns it in the very final fight, or after it. The main reason for intoducing a BBEG in my campaing was so that the players could have a clear goal, wheter they folow it or not, and also so that the wouldnt stray TOO FAR from the main adventures I have layed out for them. I dont really mind if they say "screw this saving the world mission" as long as they have fun, I just think I know them enough to know they like this kind of Good vs Bad campaign. So the BBEG would be, along with the various NPCs the glue of the campaing. Also, many of the players where creative enough to provide interesting stories to which this BBEG could be related to, thus giving him more of a role in the big picture. He would know a lot more about the party mission than the party itself, so that he may always be a step ahead of things, and thus prepared and buffed up to fight. This also lets me, in the very distant future and when the BBEG finally dies, say that he was in fact just a pawn of a bigger force at work and that the party must now tackle such force. Hell...I could even say he was just one of many henchmen of Lucifer or he was gathering brains for the Ilithids or whathever :rolleyes: "How is he not gonna murder the party and why" is something I have to figure out yet. Thanks a lot to everyone for tour aswers, they have given me quite a lot of ideas. Let me lay out hte story for you, mind that its still very incomplete and that I havent even directed 1 session yet. I dont know how long a message can be, so ill double post just this once.
nemezote 09-20-07, 07:35 PM	So, I first thought of DMing when I realized most of my DM "friends" where a$$holes who only cared about themselves and whose players never had fun, I like D&D a lot, as well as any RPG, so I said "f%CK !t, ill run my own campaign and listen to my players so we can all have fun" so I started reading, after chewing trough the Core Rulebooks a few times I decided that I wanted to run a premade adventure, at least just this once to get the feeling of the game and not have to think a brand new one yet. I got the "Forge of Fury" one and I really liked it. So then I started thinking of ways to tie it better to the story and atmosphere of the campaign (which at that time, and mostly still, are in my head). One thing I really liked, and thought the players would like too, is the idea of weapons that grow stronger with you, be it just by simply leveling up, or by uncovering powerful nexuses of energy (or altars, stones, whatever) hidden throughout the world. As such at the end of this adventure, when they face the dragon (and I have to make sure they kill it) they find one of this nexuses, or stones, or altars, and that empowers their weapons (wich THEY chose, so im killing the risk of giving them weapons they dont like) and makes them, I dunno, +2 weapons (they would be lvl 5 at that time). So, it doesent even have to be magic itself that empowers their weapons, it could be ancient guardian spirits, forged to defend the new-born world against their couterparts (or counterPART). I was thinking that in the beginning of time 5 guardians fought against a dark guardian and they ended up in a tie, bringing balance to the world and their souls, or essences forever trapped inside stones hidden secretly in the world, waiting for heroes of good or dark to claim their power. ( I know its cheesy ) So the main reason the BBEG is there is because him (or his masters) wants the power of the orbs to himself, and only when he claims them all can he call upon the true power of the dark spirit within them. In order to obtain such power he doesent have to find the stones himself, he can get it by destroying the PCs weapons (and themselves) in a dark ritual. This is of course just the main story FOR NOW, when it ends maybe more over-the-top plots will reveal themselves, and of course, in the lenght of this quest the players will find many more quests to solve. There are a few things I have to work out yet... For example 1) What to give to the Wizard ( hes not much for weapons =P ) 2) I want the BBEG to be a real badass, but that only raises the question of why doesent he just kill them and get the thing over with. 3) And most importantly, as much as I like this plot, I sometimes find it hard to think of things more lets say "epic" than this one (maybe I lack imagination). And its hard to think what mission to give to the PCs when they complete this one. Id like to listen to everyones opinion on this one, as im new to DMing and I could use as much help as I can get. Thanks a lot for reading.
Mojo_Rat 09-20-07, 07:48 PM	As has been said a few times. A dragon in the age category to give you the CR you want will really provide everything you could ask for in a BBEG. Since they can fly also you can always leave it a little bit weaker and just have it fly off if things are not working so well.
nemezote 09-20-07, 08:07 PM	Oh yeah, sorry for not saying it before, but dragons play another part in my story, and i think that players will feel more identified with a human, or at least a humanoid. Thanks to all that suggested the dragon.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-20-07, 08:51 PM	So, I first thought of DMing when I realized most of my DM "friends" where a$$holes who only cared about themselves and whose players never had fun, I like D&D a lot, as well as any RPG, so I said "f%CK !t, ill run my own campaign and listen to my players so we can all have fun" so I started reading, after chewing trough the Core Rulebooks a few times I decided that I wanted to run a premade adventure, at least just this once to get the feeling of the game and not have to think a brand new one yet. I got the "Forge of Fury" one and I really liked it. So then I started thinking of ways to tie it better to the story and atmosphere of the campaign (which at that time, and mostly still, are in my head). One thing I really liked, and thought the players would like too, is the idea of weapons that grow stronger with you, be it just by simply leveling up, or by uncovering powerful nexuses of energy (or altars, stones, whatever) hidden throughout the world. As such at the end of this adventure, when they face the dragon (and I have to make sure they kill it) they find one of this nexuses, or stones, or altars, and that empowers their weapons (wich THEY chose, so im killing the risk of giving them weapons they dont like) and makes them, I dunno, +2 weapons (they would be lvl 5 at that time). So, it doesent even have to be magic itself that empowers their weapons, it could be ancient guardian spirits, forged to defend the new-born world against their couterparts (or counterPART). I was thinking that in the beginning of time 5 guardians fought against a dark guardian and they ended up in a tie, bringing balance to the world and their souls, or essences forever trapped inside stones hidden secretly in the world, waiting for heroes of good or dark to claim their power. ( I know its cheesy ) So the main reason the BBEG is there is because him (or his masters) wants the power of the orbs to himself, and only when he claims them all can he call upon the true power of the dark spirit within them. In order to obtain such power he doesent have to find the stones himself, he can get it by destroying the PCs weapons (and themselves) in a dark ritual. This is of course just the main story FOR NOW, when it ends maybe more over-the-top plots will reveal themselves, and of course, in the lenght of this quest the players will find many more quests to solve. There are a few things I have to work out yet... For example 1) What to give to the Wizard ( hes not much for weapons =P ) 2) I want the BBEG to be a real badass, but that only raises the question of why doesent he just kill them and get the thing over with. 3) And most importantly, as much as I like this plot, I sometimes find it hard to think of things more lets say "epic" than this one (maybe I lack imagination). And its hard to think what mission to give to the PCs when they complete this one. Id like to listen to everyones opinion on this one, as im new to DMing and I could use as much help as I can get. Thanks a lot for reading. 1) Spell storing, for one. You could also give the weapon he imbues the abilities of a metamagic rod. 2) If the PCs blindside the BBEG the first tine they meet him, catching him off-guard, without any minions, and unbuffed, he's probably going to run. Being aware of them, he's going to start studying them, and he'll quickly find the party is very efficient at getting the quest artifacts, and circumventing the traps associated with them. Thus, he'll decide to simply let them collect the spirits for him, and then he'll (expect to) swoop down and snatch the prize easily once they've done it (also a Final Fantasy plotline). You could also say that he discovered that the spirits get stronger when wielded, or brought together. The BBEG may decide to take this gambit and let the PCs make his implements of destruction more powerful. This means he's probably going to start paying attention to other things, which should encourage the party to engage him in sidequests, but enough to make him not want to kill them. 3) The best way to do an epic encounter for low-level PCs is environment. Fighting the BBEG with a few flying minions while deep within a castle is one thing. Doing it on a bridge 1000 feet off the ground while the flying minions try to bull rush the party to their doom (if they're low enough level, you may want to use imps for this because they're Tiny-sized and usually can't do much) is something completely different.
nemezote 09-20-07, 09:08 PM	Great idea on the spell storing, but im gonna have to whip out my ignorance here and ask whats a metamagic rod, some more details on the spell storing (wich I know just by name) would be nice. About the BBEG, if he lets them just collect the spirits (wichi by the time they end doing, should get them in their 15-18s) how is he going to be a RECURRING villian, I mean, he would be absent for like 13 levels untill its time for him to collect his prizes. I need to come up with a way, other than the party's competence ( in which you cant always count ) to save (most of) my PCs in case they screw up and are in danger of TPK. Also, the spirits arent collected one by one, they are all trapped inside the same stone ( or altar =P ) and subsequent stones just make them stronger. As it seemed very unfair to give PCs cool weapons one at a time.
Disciple_of_Salsa 09-20-07, 09:08 PM	If you want a solo BBEG that can whup the party but not kill them, go with a monk. Nonlethaldamagitized!
nemezote 09-20-07, 09:26 PM	But I do want lethal damage. :D We need to find a way (read excuse) in which he can retreat without further notice. Anyway, most importantly now is to see which are some cool templates to give him, and of course classes, im thinking Fighter/Something that can cast nice spells and has cool abilities. And if hes just waiting for the Party to strenghten the spirits then why DOES he confront them? Hum...maybe I should just change my plot a bit... EDIT: I dont know why I didnt think of this before, maybe the whole "spirits in the weapons" thing has nothing to do with the BBEG at all. Maybe hes just minding his own bad guy business and the party just gets in his way. That seems more appropiate. Dont you think?
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-20-07, 10:03 PM	Great idea on the spell storing, but im gonna have to whip out my ignorance here and ask whats a metamagic rod, some more details on the spell storing (wich I know just by name) would be nice. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm About the BBEG, if he lets them just collect the spirits (wichi by the time they end doing, should get them in their 15-18s) how is he going to be a RECURRING villian, I mean, he would be absent for like 13 levels untill its time for him to collect his prizes. I need to come up with a way, other than the party's competence ( in which you cant always count ) to save (most of) my PCs in case they screw up and are in danger of TPK. Have him protect his investment. Murdering other people looking for the spirits (the PCs are sure to investigate that), showing up in dungeons clearing out monsters that would be strong enough to kill the party (under the guise of, "oh, yeah, just looking for a magical reagent", or "yeah, I heard there was a nice magical staff here, but it looks like it's gone now", and eventually "okay, fine, yes, I'm really here for the spirit, but I don't want it badly enough to kill someone for it"), or helping the party along towards the spirits by having them try to track him down. Also, the spirits arent collected one by one, they are all trapped inside the same stone ( or altar =P ) and subsequent stones just make them stronger. As it seemed very unfair to give PCs cool weapons one at a time. He doesn't have to understand the effects completely. It may be that he actually has no idea how the party managed to pull off powering up their equipment, and he's very curious to see how they turn out (to better turn it to his own advantage).
goldjas 09-21-07, 04:57 AM	To tell the truth, I've actually done a lot of 1 "Boss" enemy vs. the entire party battles, and they generally work, heres how you have to do it: at least 2 CRs above the party, more once you get to higher levels, (i find that once you hit level 15 or so, you can even go a good 7 or 8 CRs higher sometimes) Lots of AC, like, the highest AB person in the group is going to need at least a 12 or so to hit it(on his best attack if he has multiple), and everyone else is going to need high teens. (note that flying when the entire party has crappy ranged attacks kind of works here) some way so spells don't completely destroy him...theres a few ways to go about this, such as high saves, SR, or lots of immunities. Low damage for his CR. For humanoid type opponents, sword and board fighters (with some kind of SR or save booster), clerics/mages that don't use many save or dies and are heavily prebuffed, warlocks (only works if hes way ahead of your party in CR though), Paladins/Blackguards (high saves, and damage isn't to horrible, usually has decent AC as well). and things like that work great, What doesn't work so well is something like a Barbarian, that just etheir kills the entire party in one hit each or get slaughtered due to his low AC, or a rogue...rogues in general can't be a good "boss" fight unless you fudge a lot of things, really.
Fallenangel359 09-21-07, 10:41 AM	my big bad evil girl is an 18th level shugenja with some insane abilities, however it seems every time the group sees her, she has most of her highlevel spells gone already (shes a busy girl). Of course, shes dominating the leaders of 2 nations, and at war with a 3rd nation, which she personally being the sadistic sadistic girl she is, is going village to village razing and pillaging, then taking the bodies and turning them into undead.
nemezote 09-21-07, 02:13 PM	Awwwww...She seems like such a nice girl ^_^ Ok, so what I know for sure is this: * Low damage output * 2 or 3 CRs above party * Nice maneuverability and abilities (how do you give wings and darkvision to a human?) * Decent Defenses, must only be hit on a 14 or 15 roll. Must have some SR and possibly (for the coolnes of it) Regeneration. Am I missing something? Cya :D
Stormonu 09-21-07, 03:22 PM	You may also want to consider a nemesis fight instead of a BBEG fight. Nemesis tend to show up as competitors to the characters, instead of direct adversaries. They are good at showing how the characters are the "good guys", as nemesis tend to have amoral outlooks. A lot of times, they often tend to work for the BBEG as a mercenary character because they don't care if they're doing good or evil. Sometimes, the characters can actually turn the nemesis to their side, but many times the characters are so opposed to their nemesis that they never do ally. Some example nemesis: Bellock from Raiders of the Lost Ark, Boba Fett from Empire Strikes Back, Burke from Aliens, Mr. Smith from Matrix (though he ends up becoming the BBEG by the 3rd movie), Gollum from Lord of the Rings, etc.
nemezote 09-22-07, 04:51 AM	Thats a Nice idea too! So, anyway, my first session had to be postponed untill next weekend...one of my female players was having trouble with her boyfriend and she didnt exactly feel like she could give the adventure her 100%. Its ok for me, im always into playing to ones fullest, but it dissapoints me (if only a little). I was really looking forward to it. Maybe it was for the best, as now I have more time to prepare.
Mique 09-22-07, 09:25 AM	If you want a solo BBEG that can whup the party but not kill them, go with a monk. Nonlethaldamagitized! um k....monks do lethal damage. so yea. anyway a monk is a good choice. they have good ac, good saves, are fast and can be damn annoying at mid levels. make a 4monk /2 sorc or wiz and you can make a sick bbeg. he wont dish out a ton of damage, but stunning fist and evasion make for a tough foe. expecially if he has deflect arrows...
Escef 09-22-07, 10:19 AM	um k....monks do lethal damage. so yea. But a monk can choose to do non-lethal with unarmed attacks at no penalty.
smeagol_lied 09-22-07, 04:22 PM	BBEG should not be able to solo the party, else the party will lose. Which, by the way, you don't want. TPKs should be avoided whenever possible.
annoyinglizardvoice 09-23-07, 05:35 PM	In my experience (as both player and DM), the best boss fights aren't just about players attack, bad guys attack. Encourage players to be creative in their use of items and spells, reward them for cunning stratergies and include elements in the fight beyond just hitting stuff. These things can be done regardless of wether or not the boss has minions. Some of the best boss fights I've ever been in involved critters easily capable of soloing the party. What law states that all villans must be cowards who hide behind walls of minions anyway? (by solo you do mean able to take on the party on their own don't you?)
nemezote 09-24-07, 02:54 AM	Yes :D by solo I mean that he should be able to "stand his ground" against the party, even kill it, but thats NOT (and let me say it again : NOT) something I want. In fact I just want to make him resillient and versatile. This will let the party realize that they cant just hack at him and hope to win, they will have to get creative and use their most powerful weapons, namely their brains. Because of this im also thinking about several cool and puzzling battle environments for their encounters.