BBEGs all the same [Archive] - Wizards Community

BBEGs all the same [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
troll
07-19-06, 05:38 AM Is it just me or do all (or at least a significant majority) of the BBEGs seem to be clerics or wizards.
I'm not saying thats bad or any thing just curious if any one has any memorabe encounters with a BBEG that wasn't
Shaggy_Shaggs
07-19-06, 05:44 AM :confused: Is it just me, or is the "ass" in the thread topic an unrelated extraneous attention-grabber?
Jepeddo
07-19-06, 05:58 AM I've had fat BBEGs and skinny ones.

Was that your question?
DarkSoldier
07-19-06, 06:51 AM I can't off-hand recall any memorable non-caster BBEGS (I've played in only one real D&D campaign), but if you meant to write "all" instead of "ass," I have to say that your aim is way off; the L key is nowhere near the S key on a QWERTY keyboard. :P
Seeker95
07-19-06, 07:39 AM But the S is in a similar relative position for the other hand.

As for the OP question: No. I have not noticed this. Maybe it's jsut you. I have had plenty of noteworthy encounters with a non-cleric/non-wizard BBEG.
razorboy
07-19-06, 08:00 AM Sadly I gotta say that all BBEGs I ran were clerics and wizards. I just find that they last longer, do more damage, and have the spells to carry off their insane evil schemes to destroy the world and/or flood it with hordes of "insert your monster here". Higher level clerics and wizards, who are at least 2 CRs over the party level can counter many party tactics and abilities, while not causing a TPK, and provide an interesting and challenging fight. Plus, evil wizards and evil clerics have many motivations for being a BBEG.

That said, one exception to clerics and wizards being BBEG, was a human rogue/fighter/bard nemesis that I ran in a Ravenloft campaign. He was a twin of one of the players and caused the party so much grief by framing them for murders, monster attacks, thefts, and scandals. He caused the party so much grief that they went on a lengthy side-quest just to try and take him and his minions down, resulting in a massive fight. The BBEG did not have much in the ways of spells, and could not stand up in one-on-one fight with the party's fighter, but he was such a thorn in the party's side that he became much more memorable than a more common BBEG. So I guess it's possible to have a non-caster BBEG, especially in a campaign that leans more towards RP and NPC interactions.
Zherog
07-19-06, 08:17 AM My current campaign has a BBEG who's a god (Scahrossar). Does that count? :D
Pfisiar
07-19-06, 08:43 AM My current campaign has a BBEG who's a god (Scahrossar). Does that count? :D

Wow, those PC's lives must be rather interesting.

BBEG's tend to be spellcasters because as you go higher in level, spellcasters tend to give the most challenging encounter. (Not always, as a rule of thumb it's good)
Verelor
07-19-06, 09:19 AM Is it just me or do all (or at least a significant majority) of the BBEGs seem to be clerics or wizards.
I'm not saying thats bad or any thing just curious if any one has any memorabe encounters with a BBEG that wasn't

Nah, they can be psions. Or blackguards. Or mind flayers. Or dragons. And the list goes on.
Pfisiar
07-19-06, 09:21 AM Nah, they can be psions. Or blackguards. Or mind flayers. Or dragons. And the list goes on.

Just once I'd like to see a campaign where the BBEG is less powerful than his bodyguards. Because, you know, it happens. The weak can dominate the strong through pure charisma or simply by having a better plan. Or being rich.
troll
07-19-06, 09:30 AM I was also meaning are ther any ways that you cold think of to have a good bbeg that isn't a Cleric Or Wizard i mean i don't even see to many sorcs or druids never mind fighters or rouges

P.S.Bad Speller + insomnia + 4:30= all to ass
Drodain
07-19-06, 09:30 AM i did once, the players thought he was the BBEG and he was in a way he just wasnt evil but his followers were, he accidentally started a cult and they started murdering townsppl so the mayor has a price on his head and the guy is trying to stop the cult w/o causing mass hysteria/his own death by reveiling himself, he was a monk...i think BBEG can be anything just clerics and wizards have the easiest reasons to come up with
Verelor
07-19-06, 09:32 AM Just once I'd like to see a campaign where the BBEG is less powerful than his bodyguards. Because, you know, it happens. The weak can dominate the strong through pure charisma or simply by having a better plan. Or being rich.

Aka 6th-level aristocrat?
SeptimusMagistos
07-19-06, 10:53 AM I think the reason the BBEG tend to be spellcasters is that this was the trend set by the official adventure modules.
Whisper_Swiftblade
07-19-06, 11:11 AM spell casters make good villins because you don't want the party to know exactly what they are in for, otherwise they can make encounters too easy. When you see a barbarian comeing you think " I'll try to stay out of his way while he is rageing, use things that require will saves and after he is all out of rage move in for the kill" you stay to the plan and you will probally not brake a sweat fighting him, and let's be honest that's just boring . With a wizard on the other hand, you don't know what's coming, he might polymorph into an elephant, it might be fireball, it might be summoning a demon but you just don't know until you fight him and because of that it makes things more exiting.
Lyinginbedmon
07-19-06, 11:27 AM It is entirely possible to have non-spellcaster class BBEGs (Though ones incorporating classes with some spellcasting seem to be a standard). For example, the BBEG(s) in the present campaign are a trio of friends, a Gray Jester Bard, a Naztharune Rakshsasa Assassin/Mindspy, and a Lich Monk/Blackguard/Wizard/Archmage. That last one doesn't see fights too often, since he's more the spokesman of the group (Looking the least creepy anyways), and the Jester never sees combat (He's mostly a domination guy). The one that sees the most combat and the one that pulls the most strings is the Assassin. (Though the Jester takes over minds and the Lich keeps things looking 'clean')

The reason that spellcasters tend to be the big villains is generally because they are so often associated with it. I mean, King Arthur's main enemy was the witch Morgan LeFay, Conan the Barbarian's final villain was a warlock, very few of the great medieval story villains are not in some way magical. It's the idea of 'impurity through the arcane' that crept into society at the time because of the Church's control of the masses. That initial taint has been carried on into modern society, so whenever someone thinks 'medieval villain' they instantly think 'evil wizard'. It's unfortunate, but that's generally how things go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
troll 07-19-06, 05:38 AM	Is it just me or do all (or at least a significant majority) of the BBEGs seem to be clerics or wizards. I'm not saying thats bad or any thing just curious if any one has any memorabe encounters with a BBEG that wasn't
Shaggy_Shaggs 07-19-06, 05:44 AM	:confused: Is it just me, or is the "ass" in the thread topic an unrelated extraneous attention-grabber?
Jepeddo 07-19-06, 05:58 AM	I've had fat BBEGs and skinny ones. Was that your question?
DarkSoldier 07-19-06, 06:51 AM	I can't off-hand recall any memorable non-caster BBEGS (I've played in only one real D&D campaign), but if you meant to write "all" instead of "ass," I have to say that your aim is way off; the L key is nowhere near the S key on a QWERTY keyboard. :P
Seeker95 07-19-06, 07:39 AM	But the S is in a similar relative position for the other hand. As for the OP question: No. I have not noticed this. Maybe it's jsut you. I have had plenty of noteworthy encounters with a non-cleric/non-wizard BBEG.
razorboy 07-19-06, 08:00 AM	Sadly I gotta say that all BBEGs I ran were clerics and wizards. I just find that they last longer, do more damage, and have the spells to carry off their insane evil schemes to destroy the world and/or flood it with hordes of "insert your monster here". Higher level clerics and wizards, who are at least 2 CRs over the party level can counter many party tactics and abilities, while not causing a TPK, and provide an interesting and challenging fight. Plus, evil wizards and evil clerics have many motivations for being a BBEG. That said, one exception to clerics and wizards being BBEG, was a human rogue/fighter/bard nemesis that I ran in a Ravenloft campaign. He was a twin of one of the players and caused the party so much grief by framing them for murders, monster attacks, thefts, and scandals. He caused the party so much grief that they went on a lengthy side-quest just to try and take him and his minions down, resulting in a massive fight. The BBEG did not have much in the ways of spells, and could not stand up in one-on-one fight with the party's fighter, but he was such a thorn in the party's side that he became much more memorable than a more common BBEG. So I guess it's possible to have a non-caster BBEG, especially in a campaign that leans more towards RP and NPC interactions.
Zherog 07-19-06, 08:17 AM	My current campaign has a BBEG who's a god (Scahrossar). Does that count? :D
Pfisiar 07-19-06, 08:43 AM	My current campaign has a BBEG who's a god (Scahrossar). Does that count? :D Wow, those PC's lives must be rather interesting. BBEG's tend to be spellcasters because as you go higher in level, spellcasters tend to give the most challenging encounter. (Not always, as a rule of thumb it's good)
Verelor 07-19-06, 09:19 AM	Is it just me or do all (or at least a significant majority) of the BBEGs seem to be clerics or wizards. I'm not saying thats bad or any thing just curious if any one has any memorabe encounters with a BBEG that wasn't Nah, they can be psions. Or blackguards. Or mind flayers. Or dragons. And the list goes on.
Pfisiar 07-19-06, 09:21 AM	Nah, they can be psions. Or blackguards. Or mind flayers. Or dragons. And the list goes on. Just once I'd like to see a campaign where the BBEG is less powerful than his bodyguards. Because, you know, it happens. The weak can dominate the strong through pure charisma or simply by having a better plan. Or being rich.
troll 07-19-06, 09:30 AM	I was also meaning are ther any ways that you cold think of to have a good bbeg that isn't a Cleric Or Wizard i mean i don't even see to many sorcs or druids never mind fighters or rouges P.S.Bad Speller + insomnia + 4:30= all to ass
Drodain 07-19-06, 09:30 AM	i did once, the players thought he was the BBEG and he was in a way he just wasnt evil but his followers were, he accidentally started a cult and they started murdering townsppl so the mayor has a price on his head and the guy is trying to stop the cult w/o causing mass hysteria/his own death by reveiling himself, he was a monk...i think BBEG can be anything just clerics and wizards have the easiest reasons to come up with
Verelor 07-19-06, 09:32 AM	Just once I'd like to see a campaign where the BBEG is less powerful than his bodyguards. Because, you know, it happens. The weak can dominate the strong through pure charisma or simply by having a better plan. Or being rich. Aka 6th-level aristocrat?
SeptimusMagistos 07-19-06, 10:53 AM	I think the reason the BBEG tend to be spellcasters is that this was the trend set by the official adventure modules.
Whisper_Swiftblade 07-19-06, 11:11 AM	spell casters make good villins because you don't want the party to know exactly what they are in for, otherwise they can make encounters too easy. When you see a barbarian comeing you think " I'll try to stay out of his way while he is rageing, use things that require will saves and after he is all out of rage move in for the kill" you stay to the plan and you will probally not brake a sweat fighting him, and let's be honest that's just boring . With a wizard on the other hand, you don't know what's coming, he might polymorph into an elephant, it might be fireball, it might be summoning a demon but you just don't know until you fight him and because of that it makes things more exiting.
Lyinginbedmon 07-19-06, 11:27 AM	It is entirely possible to have non-spellcaster class BBEGs (Though ones incorporating classes with some spellcasting seem to be a standard). For example, the BBEG(s) in the present campaign are a trio of friends, a Gray Jester Bard, a Naztharune Rakshsasa Assassin/Mindspy, and a Lich Monk/Blackguard/Wizard/Archmage. That last one doesn't see fights too often, since he's more the spokesman of the group (Looking the least creepy anyways), and the Jester never sees combat (He's mostly a domination guy). The one that sees the most combat and the one that pulls the most strings is the Assassin. (Though the Jester takes over minds and the Lich keeps things looking 'clean') The reason that spellcasters tend to be the big villains is generally because they are so often associated with it. I mean, King Arthur's main enemy was the witch Morgan LeFay, Conan the Barbarian's final villain was a warlock, very few of the great medieval story villains are not in some way magical. It's the idea of 'impurity through the arcane' that crept into society at the time because of the Church's control of the masses. That initial taint has been carried on into modern society, so whenever someone thinks 'medieval villain' they instantly think 'evil wizard'. It's unfortunate, but that's generally how things go.