Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonX10^9 03-22-04, 11:44 PM	The Party: All evil (or selfish at least), all monsters. The campaign has a good vs evil slant. Troll Rockthower, Gnoll Ranger, Minotaur Cleric (some god/ess of death/evil), Bugbear Rogue (a "thug"), and one other who hasn't been decided (possibly an undead of some sort). I need an extremely powerful good NPC, a Big Bad Evil Guy...preferably human, elf, or half elf (or half-celestial, etc...something pretty, but intimidating). It can be male or female. The BoED will be allowed for NPC's in this campaign (it and the BoVD are off-limits to the players, however). I know some folks on these boards are way better at this than I am...so can you help me out?
Ack'noth Necrom 03-23-04, 04:44 AM	If you want a cliche go with a cleric and/or paladin that has the saint template. Or if you want something a little unexpected how about a ranger/saint with a dinosaur companion (Think T-Rex :devil: ) that has the PCs types for favored enemies? Just have the BBGG find out about their sinister goals and vow to stop them. It could get interesting after that. If you give me more info on the PCs maybe i can give better advice, but thats all i got for now
Wyrd 03-23-04, 05:13 AM	I play in a campaign where we are all epic GOOD guys ... almost all are exalted. We have: - Human VoP Monk 21 / Perfected One 6 - Human Cleric 8 / Paladin 2 / Fist of Raziel 17 - Human Wizard 5 / Harper Mage 5 / Arcane Devotee of Tyr 5 / War Wizard of Cormyr 5 / Archmage 5 / Loremaster 2 - Half-Gold Dragon Rogue 2 / Paladin 5 / Knight of the Middle Circle 10 / Vassal of Bahamut 8 - Half-Celestial Rogue 11 / Lasher 11 / Fighter 2 Maybe that gives you some ideas to build your BBGG.
sciborg2 03-23-04, 02:48 PM	Go with an epic swashbuckler with a celestial forged blade. Make him foppish, silly, chaotic. A dashing rogue who comes up with stinging barbs of wit as sharp as his rapier... Basically, a guy so annoying your PCs will hate him. Also, his finesse seems to counter your PCs brute strength.
Crossover-Chronicler 03-23-04, 02:53 PM	Level?
DragonX10^9 03-23-04, 09:36 PM	Crossover-Chronicler wrote: "Level?" Campaign starts with the party level around 9-10. All pc's will start the game with at least one class level of some sort. I like the half celestial ranger/saint with the T-rex...I was going to go with a paladin...also, I guess there'd be more than one "good guy", too. One really powerful, and a few slightly less so.
Erik_Steel 03-24-04, 12:05 AM	A VoP Monk, with all the trimmings. Does massive damage against Evil, SR, uses wisdom to hit.
Aurotuli 03-24-04, 02:20 AM	also, I guess there'd be more than one "good guy", too. One really powerful, and a few slightly less so. Well, of course! After all, every BB_G needs minions! :D Anyway, how about this: Saint Paladin w/ various epic, :cough: I mean *exalted*, feats as the BBGG. He needs to keep abreast of what is occuring in the world so he has a corp of various do-gooders. Good Rangers to look out after the rural areas, Good Rogues to look out after the urban areas, and many many clerics / paladins (he formed his own order!) that follow his deity and generally act as his shock troops once news comes in from the rangers / rogues. The rogues / rangers typically work in small groups, say 2 - 4/5. Not all are exalted, but often at least one in a group is working towards it. Now, the evil party is monstrous and is unlikely to have walked into any major towns / cities as of yet, so the rangers are the first they are likely to encounter. Perhaps your group recently killed a few villagers or despoiled a (good) fey lake/etc. A ranger group has heard word of your group. They send word to another group (in case they do not return), and they leave to investigate. Perhaps your group succeeds in slaying them, perhaps they merely run them off. In either case, the saintly paladin will eventually know that something is up. More rangers are your first targets, each seeking to get more information to send back. These rangers are occasionally accompanied by either NG Druids (who join them only because they likewise wish to preserve the good aspects of the wilderness) &/or (good) fey. Then the ranger groups get the occational paladin / cleric to back them up as things get more interesting &/or the Paladin begins to take them more seriously. Finally, your evil group has gone so far that the BBGG calls the holy crusade against them. Small armies of good fighters, mixed strongly with good rangers (since this is a more rural than urban setting), a few good rogues, many good clerics, and lots of paladins (officers, etc). Perhaps a few druids, wizards, monks, etc also join in. After a few major battles the Saintly Paladin comes forth to lead the last charge / whatever against your evil party. If they survive all this (they're likely well into epic levels by this point, but so too are their enemies), then they are worthy of succeeding in their future goals and becoming infamous legends for many centuries to come (after their eventual deaths). Remeber to build up slowly. The holy crusade should start just as they enter epic levels, for instance. Even an epic class troll will have problems against an army numbering in the hundreds (all of whom have at least a few class levels, many having 10+, and a few having 15+ (with perhaps one encounter during battle with a 20+). Set it up well, and it could be a campaign they remember for a long time to come.
DragonX10^9 03-25-04, 09:56 PM	Aurotuli; that's pretty much what I had in mind so far, thanks for your help with the details. About saints...am I correct in remembering (I don't own the book myself, but my friends do and I have read it) that half-celestial characters cannot become saints because they're considered "outsiders"? Is the saint stonger than the half-celestial? If so, I would rather use that. One of the rangers you mentioned is likely to be exalted as well, and have some of the party's races as favored enemies (thanks, Ack' noth). She will be the commander of the rangers who work for the BBGG. I also like the idea of the rogue's commander being a foppish pansy (but very intelligent, cunning, and witty). On the other hand, he could be a dirty old beggar with the VoP set (but still charming and witty, in a toothless, cackling way). The cleric commander, on the other hand...very severe and curt. And boring...basically a holy a$$ hole. :D
Zeek Nolum 03-26-04, 04:36 AM	The thing is you want this guy to be powerful, but I think really gooddy two shoes. Have him found/build several churches, have him create orphanages, raise money to feed the poor, Pet every little fluffy bunny along his way. The reason I say this is, if your characters are going to to evil, then they want to hate a guy like this, make him so goodly and lovable that its sickening. That way if/when they crush him, its all the more viscerally satisfying as an evil baddy.
Massawyrm 03-26-04, 05:28 AM	Everyone's got some great stuff on the BBGG...my only addition here is to possibly make him one of those borderline LG Mad, avenging killing machine for Good...you know...the type most players like to play their Paladins as (giving players a taste of their own medicine is ALWAYS fun.) If you make a Pali...make sure to make him a Fist of Raziel. All those weird Smite powers will throw your players for a loop. But here's the main reason I piped up...those secondary characters you were talking about. Here's your structure: the Super Friends. Yes, The Super Friends. Your players are some pretty bad Hombre's, so who's most liable to step up to try and defeat them? Why, the local legends of course. The group, whose membership may or may not have changed over the years, that is responsible for ridding the area of an Ancient Red Dragon threatening the town. The Group that cleared out every dungeon and every square inch of ruins within a 1000 mile radius. The group that has stopped cult after cult from gating "end of the world" monsters into the realm. That's who. Freaking superheroes. This BBGG...he's your superman. Have some Super rogue for Batman if you really want to follow the theme. But here's some solid squad members: An Exalted Arcanist. Wanna make him really nasty? Exalted Arcanist/Thaumaturgist (DMG). This gives you all sorts of access to summoning good creatures galore as well as Purified and consecrated fireballs that don't even scratch his buddies. A Redeemed Rakshasa or Mindflayer. Wanna really mess with them? Introduce something they KNOW is evil, maybe something willing to use subterfuge to infiltrate the group. Then Wammo Slammo...wait!?! He's a GOOD GUY!?!? A redeemed Rakshasa...and not a member of the Party that can cast Bless on a crossbow bolt... An Apsotle of Peace. Evil knows one tactic, Violence; understands one language, Power. Now what if they met someone they couldn't fight? This oughta frustrate the bejezzus out of them. VOP Monk. Oh yeah, mentioned before and with good reason. Killing him, when and if they do, will be the most frustrating thing of all. He'll be one tough mofo to hit...and when all is said and done? No loot. Oh yeah. There you have it...4 additional members of your Super Friends, four guys that on their own will annoy your party to no end, but together, will wipe the floor with them if they aren't smart and play like the evil bastards they're supposed to be. Good luck man, hope these ideas help.
jkovacik 03-26-04, 03:53 PM	Don't overlook the following: The Exalted Bard - Heroic Inspiration, healing, and the 6th level bard spell Empyreal Ecstacy. Combine that with Guard Other, and melee/missile attacks are doing 1/4 damage to main target, 1/4 damage to a cleric (with great AC and healing spells, SR, etc.). Nothing frustrates a party like that: "My critical did 7 pts of damage??" When designing a good party, it's really important to make them work together well - evil parties are selfish, but good characters will endanger and even sacrifice themselves for each other. Hold nothing back. Give the group Fighter "Stigmata", so even the fighter can bust out some healing when needed - that will catch them off-guard. Sorcerers with the following spells: Vow of Nonviolence + Baneful Polymorph (to take out the spellcasters) Wall of Stone (to isolate the big damage-dealers for a round or two) Exalted Arcane Tricksters: Empower + Scorching Ray + Nonleathal Substitution (craft a wand with this - it's only a 4th level spell combo) + Improved Invisibility + Sneak Attack (touch attack, ignores all fire resistances, does sick damage against most targets - on the order of 10d6 each round, usually, with no save); can use Impromptu SA on targets w/ see invis Bard w/ spell that eliminates all non-leathal damage (forgot the name) + redeemed troll w/ monk levels
faer1 03-28-04, 04:14 AM	A warforged fighter with VoP. A heck of a lot of feats, and an innate armor bonus to AC.
DragonX10^9 03-28-04, 11:19 PM	Just an update; the players have decided on their characters. Here's what I will have to deal with: Mindflayer, Wizo (Enchanter, of course). Undead Human Vampire, Ranger (Dire wolf companion, no doubt). Half-dragon Doppleganger, Rogue/Cleric of Mask (The ultimate master of disguise). Troll, Fighter, Hulking Hurler (Tank). Jakal Lord, Cleric of ? (She hasn't decided on a god yet, probably something subtle but destructive).
Navonod Semaj 03-30-04, 12:25 AM	Actually, i'd go for a Solar or some other high-ranking angel. You can just lift the stats right out of the book if you need to. And so much in one package! - thousands of years of experience - incredible melee and ranged capability - incredible magical capability - T-1000-like invulnerability, regenerating from everything but evil spells and epic evil weapons. - Possibly thousands of minions. Being of such stature, a Solar should be able to easily bring a whole mess of friends with him. There's also the fact that even high-level characters will pay him notice. "Gee, who the hell tipped off Prince Shiningsword that we were behind the orc riots?" The only problem would be giving such a powerful creature motivation for opposing the PCs, without it being so much that he does them in himself. You cound have him busy with other matters at the time, only realising the full extent of how dangerous they are when it's too late (party at level 19+). Give the PCs some reason to collect the fragments of some powerful relic, like a sword or the adamantine tablet which an epic spell is scribed upon. Then play him like a mastermind.
Crossover-Chronicler 03-30-04, 12:42 AM	I'm with Navonod Semaj. Like fiends, Celestial minions can scale to any encounter level. The Fiend Folio has angelic agents as low as CR 9 (Movanic Deva), and angelic "boss types" can rise to epic CRs (Planetar, Solar). Add in more specifically aligned Celestials to fill in the blanks (Guardinals, Eladrins, Archons, Asuras) and the BBGG's minions provide suitable challenges at every level. For even greater fun, make the actual BBGG a cleric or paladin who's receiving "divine aid" from such sources, giving the BBGG mortal influence as well. Or (to be really perverse and cultivate some serious paranoia among the PCs) have angelic messengers operate through several unrelated Good-aligned churches to make life hard for them.
BladeBoy 03-31-04, 07:40 PM	Exalted Human Sorc 20 , Mindbender10 Quite fun
DragonX10^9 04-04-04, 07:31 PM	Yes, a solar or some other high ranking angel will be the "real" BBGG that pulls the strings and makes things happen. There will be a human paladin (either half-celestial or saint and well into epic levels), and his army of goody-two-shoes followers (an army, literally; well organized and trained infantry, cavalry, and bowmen). There will be a satyr ranger and his nymph druid girlfriend that protects the good country folk...(these two kick-a$$...wow). They'll be fighting as a team, plus, they have their own followers (good fey and tons of animals, ents, etc). I'm still workng on the others.
Hope 04-12-04, 09:23 PM	The most infuriating BBGG I've ever seen was a dwarven paladin/rogue working as a spy for the temple of Moradin in a large dwarven town which the party (a human "special forces" team disguised as merchants, trying to steal war machine plans from the dwarves) was infiltrating. We had our disguises and our cover stories all nicely worked out... but we didn't think to suppress our auras of evil. (In fact, my character wasn't even aware she was evil. After that mission, she went about making an item of undetectable alignment right quick!) So he figures out that half of this "merchant delegation" is evil, and sets about finding out what we're up to. He approaches the party and offers his services as a "guide" who is "in touch with many aspects of city life". And we, as the dodgy criminals we are, immediately leapt to the assumption that he was our ticket into the local underworld scene, and, while not trusting him, still worked with him to a certain extent. Even once we'd figured out he was an agent of the temple of Moradin, we couldn't just ditch him or kill him, because that would blow *our* cover. He managed to get himself invited along on our "escort mission back to the human lands for the dwarven engineer" (read: our kidnap attempt), and we couldn't get rid of him without the temple coming down on us. We even tried to get him killed in a goblin attack, but he survived that too! Grr! Once he figured out what our mission was, he hatched a particularly cunning plan with his gnome illusionist assistants, and managed to smuggle himself and the engineer out of our camp. It was only by some incredibly hard riding that we were able to catch up to him and capture them again. And even then... Even then, we couldn't get any information out of him before killing him. He refused to feel fear! He wouldn't tell us anything beyond the fact that he was working for the temple of Moradin. I was going to authorize his torture to extract more information, but then he told me, calmly and with a chilling certainty, that if I continued on the path I was going, I was going to end up in a very, very bad place when I died. And I believed him, so, instead of having him tortured, he was "shot while trying to escape". Now that's what I call a BBGG. Infuriatingly good and just, and we couldn't just murder him, even though he wasn't that much of a physical threat. And he made a cold-hearted assassin think about the disposition of her immortal soul.