Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crimsonrhino 10-31-06, 10:45 AM	I see the Dire Bear form. Its an awesome form but is there one thats more offensive? Would a Dire Lion be the best for a lvl 12 Druid who wants to shred flesh?
Seeker95 10-31-06, 11:17 AM	There are plenty of more offensive shapes, but not a whole lot that are better at offense. :D Shambling mound and Treant are nice forms, especially if accompanied by a few other spells that minimize their weaknesses.
ShubNiggurath 10-31-06, 02:18 PM	well, probably only a shadow dragon (draconic wildshape - Drac)
Drachasor 10-31-06, 02:58 PM	The Dire Bear is good when you are in melee range ofthe enemies, or very close to it. If you can charge on the other hand, then a Dire Lion form is very potent, allowing you to have two more attacks on that charge (and pounce already nets you your normal full attack claw/claw/bite). So if you have a lot of widely spaced opponents that are somewhat weak, then the Dire Lion form is definitely the best choice -- if you can pretty much charge and kill each one, one after another. The Dire Lion Form is also a better form for general movement outside of combat. However, in Melee the Dire Lion is not as good as a Dire Bear. It has less strength, constitution, and AC -- though it does have a slightly better touch AC. So in a situation where you need to slug it out, which happens a lot, the Dire Bear is definitely better. BTW -- I believe you no longer have your HP change from the constitution changes, so the higher con only improves your fort saves and concentration checks. There is one other thing to consider, and it is actually a very tricky thing. That's grappling. Both of these forms have Improved Grab, which really adds in starting a grapple. However, the Dire Bear has Improved Grab with his main attacks, claw attacks. The Dire Lion has it with his secondary attack, his bite. This means that the Dire Bear has a much easier time grappling than the Dire Lion, since the Bear has two good chances each round. On the other hand, once you have Grappled, the Dire Lion is amazing, as it has 3 attacks (a claw and two rakes) each round, compared to the Bear's one attack, and those two rake attacks do not take the -4 grapple penalty. Deciding which form to use for a grapple then is a bit tricky. If you have the Wild Shapes to "waste" it is perhaps best to use the Dire Bear to initiate a grapple, then change shape to the Dire Lion once in the grapple. Otherwise going with the Dire Lion is a bit risky, though potentially very rewarding (an Arcane Heirophant can use the Dire Lion safely, since he could cast True Strike for his Bite Attack, making a hit almost certain). As for who to use a grapple on, that's easy, Wizards and other casters, or a nasty melee fighter that won't grapple as well as you (remember, you'll have a size bonus and strength bonus). In the latter situation (against a melee fighter), you'll want to go with the Bear, btw, for the extra edge its strength gives you. If you do it against a melee opponent, just make sure that it is a much, much larger threat than anyone else on the battlefield (and be wary of adjacent opponents that could attack you). -Drachasor PS. Of course, in many ways I think grappling is a bit broken...as it doesn't mesh very well with the current rules. Afterall, even one 5th level fighter can give a 10th level Wizard an extremely difficult grapple, so three or four 5th level fighters could potentially beat a 10th level Wizard easily if they had surprise. Grappling just doesn't scale in a very balanced way between characters, since getting grappled is very crippling. So if that worries you, then I recommend against using grappling. Trust me on this, Wildshaping is still very, very powerful even if you never grapple.
Crimsonrhino 10-31-06, 03:51 PM	Ok, so Dire Bear/ Lion depending on the situation. At lvl 16 Ill be able to change into a Chimera which if nothing lese will be scary as hell to face. As for the Hps not going up from the Wild shapes Con I just learned that today so I just a 16 (my second highest stat) into my charachters Con.
Drachasor 10-31-06, 05:29 PM	I'd take Seeker's advice too. I never looked over plant forms, since my DM didn't like the idea of a Druid turning into a plant creature, so I never got that ability. Also, your AC will be low unless you get Mage Armor cast on you somehow, or some other sort of protection (such as Wild Armor which changes shape with you). Since you no longer change your type into Animal, you can no longer benefit from Animal Growth, so no more of that lovely DR 10/Magic. That doesn't stop you from summoning a bunch of animals and boosting them up though. A cadre of animals as support can be a pretty good defense (and don't forget your Animal Companion). -Drachasor
Drachasor 11-01-06, 12:36 PM	Oh, and I also wanted to mention another important form. If you are in water, then Giant Squid is insanely powerful, especially with Greater Magic Fang, Bull's Strength, and similar spells. It gives you 10 attacks with a long reach, and one close attack. Extremely nasty on many levels. Almost nothing can beat a Druid in water. -Drachasor
Einvaldurinn_mikli 11-01-06, 12:50 PM	Nothing can beat a Druid. Fixed it for you.;)
Clawhound 11-01-06, 01:07 PM	"The Best" is always situational. Bears aren't very good against flyers, for instance. The power of wildshape isn't the creature itself, but in the ability of the druid to pick the form best suited to the task at hand. A druid that picks only one form is just a weird looking fighter who has no ranged weapons.
SeattleLightning 11-01-06, 01:12 PM	What do you guys think of the Rhino? I have a druid that uses one as an animal companion and as a wildshape (mostly for flavor). But the 4d6+24 charge, one from the druid and one from the companion can be a killer...
Tempest Stormwind 11-01-06, 01:47 PM	Pull out all the stops. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=465005) See especially post 2.