Best Supplement For Character Development [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Supplement For Character Development [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zachary The First
05-21-05, 08:42 AM Which book or product for the D&D sphere do you think best promotes character development? (It can be WoTC or another company, doesn't matter). It can be a set of rules, additonal stats, guidelines, etc....

BTW, if you think "character development" only refers to upgrading swords or armor, please don't respond. :D
PrinceAzar
05-21-05, 08:47 AM Campaign setting books, such as Eberron or Forgotten Realms.

I say this, because even if you don't wish to use those settings directly, they still give insight into religions, organizations, cults and other groups that a character can see themselves a part of. From a Fighters Guild to a tribe of Druids, they help one visualize where their character might fit in.

Also, since some races are portrayed differently on some worlds, that also gives a player ideas on how to put a spin on their character.
Seeker95
05-21-05, 04:32 PM BTW, if you think "character development" only refers to upgrading swords or armor, please don't respond.Why not? Does someone thinking so invalidate their opinion on what the best book for character development might be?

I'll give you a bit of advice, completely unsolicited, as you continue your active presence on the boards. Do with it whatever you like.

You are free to offer whatever opinion you want on any question, topic, subject or thread that comes up on the message boards. So is everyone else. Telling folks what they can and cannot offer in terms of feedback is about the only request you can guarantee won't be honored... because it shouldn't be.

Now, as to the best character development supplement... for me, it is any obscure science fantasy novel. Without ripping an entire character design from it, I am able to shape personality, tag lines, goals and objectives from just about everything I read.
PrinceAzar
05-21-05, 05:04 PM Uh, then why be so specific about thread titles if you want to post whatever you want? It seems to me he asked something with a specific guidelines, if you come in and post whatever you wish, you're not only wasting the posters time, but giving them a bad view of other posters who follow suite.

Really, is this more about someone wanting to express their own opinion, or helping the poster within the parameters he puts up? :confused:

You tell me, because it seems that disregarding something they ask sincerely just shows a lack of respect on that part.
weasel fierce
05-22-05, 01:31 AM I havent seen an RPG supplement yet that promotes character development. But a lot of them have nifty powers and spells to put on the sheet :)
Zachary The First
05-22-05, 09:02 AM Why not? Does someone thinking so invalidate their opinion on what the best book for character development might be?

I'll give you a bit of advice, completely unsolicited, as you continue your active presence on the boards. Do with it whatever you like....

*Uses advice in manner wholly appropriate for lavatory setting.*

I was trying to discourage respondees from the school of thought that believes that gaining 3 levels at once or getting a "really kewl" sword makes your character deep or well-thought out. But thank you anyways for trying to impose your own guidelines or parameters on a topic you didn't start and a response request you didn't frame. I'll be sure to post something similiar next time you have a specific request.
PressureDrop
05-22-05, 10:34 AM Upgrade their swords and armor... ;)
ieattrollsforbreakfast
05-22-05, 10:54 AM I would PrinceAzar and say any campaign setting book. They are full of plot hooks, organisations, racial relations, national relations, famous characters and more that you can base a great character background around even if you aren't using that campaign setting. Since I haven't read much of the FRCS, I'd have to go with the ECS as my favourite character development book.
Zachary The First
05-22-05, 11:44 AM Upgrade their swords and armor... ;)

Stinker. :P
Seldarin
05-22-05, 12:20 PM Arms and Equipment Guide?
wordserpent
05-22-05, 12:41 PM I havent seen an RPG supplement yet that promotes character development. But a lot of them have nifty powers and spells to put on the sheet :)

R. Talsorian Games came up with a system called "lifepath" for their Cyberpunk game. It was a totally random character background generation system. Since it's a sci-fi motif however that won't help much with D&D unless you want to use the general format and fill in the blanks by subtituting things like "Underwater Arcology" for "Fishing Village".

Harn, Columbia Games's Campaign Setting has great pre-character generation tables but once again they are random so unless you don't mind your entire party being ex-serfs you could possibly borrow from this system. Also remember that it is world-specific so it includes some things that are strictly Harnic.

The best character generation system I have ever seen however was Traveller and Megatraveller. You could go on generating a character's background right up until old age. But again, it is a sci-fi game.
PressureDrop
05-22-05, 12:57 PM Stinker. :P

Sorry but once I seen nobody else had said it already...I had to.
Zachary The First
05-22-05, 01:06 PM R. Talsorian Games came up with a system called "lifepath" for their Cyberpunk game. It was a totally random character background generation system. Since it's a sci-fi motif however that won't help much with D&D unless you want to use the general format and fill in the blanks by subtituting things like "Underwater Arcology" for "Fishing Village".

Harn, Columbia Games's Campaign Setting has great pre-character generation tables but once again they are random so unless you don't mind your entire party being ex-serfs you could possibly borrow from this system. Also remember that it is world-specific so it includes some things that are strictly Harnic.

The best character generation system I have ever seen however was Traveller and Megatraveller. You could go on generating a character's background right up until old age. But again, it is a sci-fi game.

I don't mean to stray too far from D&D, but since we're discussing lifepath systems, The Burning Wheel has the best lifepath system I'e seen thus far.

Didn't the Hero's Builder Guidebook attempt somethng along those lines, only not as in-depth?
Edymnion
05-22-05, 07:27 PM You are free to offer whatever opinion you want on any question, topic, subject or thread that comes up on the message boards. So is everyone else. Telling folks what they can and cannot offer in terms of feedback is about the only request you can guarantee won't be honored... because it shouldn't be.Which is basically the same thing as saying "I'm trying to figure out what sword would be best for me", and someone coming in and telling them to use a warhammer. No, thats being off topic. He's asking a very specific question, and thats fine. Clear guidelines on what is on topic, and what is off-topic. If someone insists on trying to make it about equipment, then they are hijacking the thread, and most likely trolling.

Anyway, back on topic.
Actually, I find that one of the best places to find inspiration for a character is not in any actual D&D book. They're in normal books, movies, and TV shows.

Thing is, while this is true, its not a pure source. If you just find a character you like and try to copy them, thats not gonna work. Chances are, somebody is going to recognize them, and anyway, its not really YOUR character at that point, you're playing someone else's character. But they're great for inspiration, taking little bits from each one.

What you've got to remember is that NO idea is original anymore. You may come up with it on your own, but its been done somewhere else, by someone else, sometime in the history of the world, its only natural. These days, its more along the lines of taking the building blocks we already have, and putting them together in a new way.

Example:
Lets take my favorite player race, the Warforged from Eberron.
Living constructs, immune to fatigue, don't get sick, don't require water, makes them great for dirty jobs that humanoids don't want to do. Plus they were built for warfare, so they've already got that warrior instinct.

Now, lets pick something off of TV as a base idea. Commercial just went off a break or two ago that had lots of beautiful women mining coal for some stupid reason (never did actually see enough of that one to figure out what they're selling). Thats perfect. Hot, dirty, tiring work.

So we have our race and our profession, a Warforged Miner. That gives us a weapon of choice too, a Heavy Pick. All the other miners wear coveralls to hold tools in, small items, etc, so this WF wears them to cover up his composite plating, look more normal.

Another trait, lets jump to comic books and pick up Wolverine's infamous cigar butt. Now we have a Warforged Miner that carries a heavy pick, wears coveralls, and smokes a cigar. Not because he breathes, not because it has any soothing effect, he just likes the strong smell and taste.

Lets see, time for another dip, lets go to Final Fantasy 7 video game, and pick up Barret's attitude, or parts of it. Overly sure of himself, full of bravado, not one to back down once a challenge has been issued.

Steal an image from the Steel movie (the Superman one with Shaq or somebody as the steel armor covered superman) where he's holding that big hammer across his shoulder and back of his neck.

Boom, I think we've got a good rough sketch of a character!

A warforged from the War that wound up as a miner to make a living after the war ended. In mining, it doesn't matter who you are, it matters how well you can do the backbreaking work, and our character excelled. Over the years, he picked up their manners of speech, their habits, their mannerisms. Recently, the mine has closed, and he's been turned out into the cold world once again He still has his original Fighter training, his armor is rather scratched and dinged, but still quite sturdy, and he has become very proficient in swinging a pick, more so than he ever was with a sword.

As in, mechanically, he's a Fighter 1 that spent his character feat on Mithril Body, and his bonus Fighter feat on Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick). Keeping things flavorful, he gets Repair Light Damage potions made in the form of cigars, so you'll often see him lightning one up after a fight.

Lo and behold, we've got an original character, by doing nothing but stealing bits from TV, movies, and video games, and sticking them together in an unexpected way :)
PrinceAzar
05-22-05, 07:43 PM True, most of my characters if inspired by an outside source, i try to borrow looks, weapon techniques, but largely their mindsets and attitudes are my own, which is truly unique :)
Draco Strang
05-22-05, 08:19 PM When I'm conjuring up a minds-eye of a character, I try to take a different slant on an old concept. For example, instead of your typical lute-strumming Girl Scout-type bard, I wanted something different. So, I took away the musical instrument, and asked myself "How do people inspire people in the real world?"

That caused me to look at people with lots of success in influencing others. Hitler, Churchill, and Caesar all leapt to my mind. What did they have? Excellent public speaking skills. So, I decided that my bard would be an orator. Then I examined every bard stereotype I could find (fruity clothes, pointy ears, CN alignment, etc) and changed it to something different.

My result? A bard with max ranks in Intimidate dressed in a rogue-style leather jumpsuit who wielded a greataxe and spurred everyone on with stirring speeches. He was a whole hell of a lot of fun to play.

I guess I'm trying to say that a good way to develop characters is to examine the stereotypes, and try to either break or bend them with the end result of a totally unique-to-that-class character.
Edymnion
05-22-05, 11:19 PM My result? A bard with max ranks in Intimidate dressed in a rogue-style leather jumpsuit who wielded a greataxe and spurred everyone on with stirring speeches. He was a whole hell of a lot of fun to play.Sweet!
I may have to steal that ;)
Draco Strang
05-23-05, 01:34 AM Sweet!
I may have to steal that ;)
Any time man. I expect royalties on the first million though. We'll talk percentages later.

Seriously though, it gets boring playing the "typical" bard or fighter. By "typical" I mean stereotype. I always try to make a different character. In a homebrew game I DM'd a long time ago, the DMPC was a wizard who walked around with a shortsword, buckler, and a giant black cape. The party swore he was a rogue for the first few sessions. Why? He always hid his casting from them. Anytime he wanted to do mage armor or the like, he'd just walk around a corner for a few moments. They chalked up his climbing around on walls to an insane percentage, instead of magic.

They were baffled because he always made his percentile rolls to activate scrolls, too. :D (For those of you not in the know, rogues in 2nd ed. had a percentile chance of activitating magic items, much like the UMD skill nowadays.)

Gotta think outside the box, folks.
Edymnion
05-23-05, 02:34 AM Gotta think outside the box, folks.Yup, to date, one of my favorite characters is named Durian.

He dressed in fine leathers. He had a city accent, well groomed hair, and would rather be in an upscale inn reading to a couple of pretty ladies in the library. Sure, he had a greatsword, and he was well built, but he acted more like the stereotypical bard. He even had ranks in Perform so he could play the recorder. Intelligence and Charisma of 14, liked animals, and came across as a big softy. He was a charmer!

No one ever figured out what he was until they managed to get him mad, his eyes went wild, and he went Berserker on their butts. Straight up Barbarian levels, but he was a city boy. He was a cursed Berserker. Mechanically, he was a Barbarian. Flavor wise? Uh uh, forget that uncivilized brute nonsense.

Gah, it was great. We were in a game where we didn't actually TELL the other players what we were playing. Thanks to a natural 20 on my perform roll, and they suave look, everybody thought I was a bard with a good strength and a munchkin feat to have a greatsword. They were sure when he hung out towards the back when a fight broke out. They were left with their jaws on the floor a few encounters down the road when something finally set him off. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zachary The First 05-21-05, 08:42 AM	Which book or product for the D&D sphere do you think best promotes character development? (It can be WoTC or another company, doesn't matter). It can be a set of rules, additonal stats, guidelines, etc.... BTW, if you think "character development" only refers to upgrading swords or armor, please don't respond. :D
PrinceAzar 05-21-05, 08:47 AM	Campaign setting books, such as Eberron or Forgotten Realms. I say this, because even if you don't wish to use those settings directly, they still give insight into religions, organizations, cults and other groups that a character can see themselves a part of. From a Fighters Guild to a tribe of Druids, they help one visualize where their character might fit in. Also, since some races are portrayed differently on some worlds, that also gives a player ideas on how to put a spin on their character.
Seeker95 05-21-05, 04:32 PM	BTW, if you think "character development" only refers to upgrading swords or armor, please don't respond.Why not? Does someone thinking so invalidate their opinion on what the best book for character development might be? I'll give you a bit of advice, completely unsolicited, as you continue your active presence on the boards. Do with it whatever you like. You are free to offer whatever opinion you want on any question, topic, subject or thread that comes up on the message boards. So is everyone else. Telling folks what they can and cannot offer in terms of feedback is about the only request you can guarantee won't be honored... because it shouldn't be. Now, as to the best character development supplement... for me, it is any obscure science fantasy novel. Without ripping an entire character design from it, I am able to shape personality, tag lines, goals and objectives from just about everything I read.
PrinceAzar 05-21-05, 05:04 PM	Uh, then why be so specific about thread titles if you want to post whatever you want? It seems to me he asked something with a specific guidelines, if you come in and post whatever you wish, you're not only wasting the posters time, but giving them a bad view of other posters who follow suite. Really, is this more about someone wanting to express their own opinion, or helping the poster within the parameters he puts up? :confused: You tell me, because it seems that disregarding something they ask sincerely just shows a lack of respect on that part.
weasel fierce 05-22-05, 01:31 AM	I havent seen an RPG supplement yet that promotes character development. But a lot of them have nifty powers and spells to put on the sheet :)
Zachary The First 05-22-05, 09:02 AM	Why not? Does someone thinking so invalidate their opinion on what the best book for character development might be? I'll give you a bit of advice, completely unsolicited, as you continue your active presence on the boards. Do with it whatever you like.... Uses advice in manner wholly appropriate for lavatory setting. I was trying to discourage respondees from the school of thought that believes that gaining 3 levels at once or getting a "really kewl" sword makes your character deep or well-thought out. But thank you anyways for trying to impose your own guidelines or parameters on a topic you didn't start and a response request you didn't frame. I'll be sure to post something similiar next time you have a specific request.
PressureDrop 05-22-05, 10:34 AM	Upgrade their swords and armor... ;)
ieattrollsforbreakfast 05-22-05, 10:54 AM	I would PrinceAzar and say any campaign setting book. They are full of plot hooks, organisations, racial relations, national relations, famous characters and more that you can base a great character background around even if you aren't using that campaign setting. Since I haven't read much of the FRCS, I'd have to go with the ECS as my favourite character development book.
Zachary The First 05-22-05, 11:44 AM	Upgrade their swords and armor... ;) Stinker. :P
Seldarin 05-22-05, 12:20 PM	Arms and Equipment Guide?
wordserpent 05-22-05, 12:41 PM	I havent seen an RPG supplement yet that promotes character development. But a lot of them have nifty powers and spells to put on the sheet :) R. Talsorian Games came up with a system called "lifepath" for their Cyberpunk game. It was a totally random character background generation system. Since it's a sci-fi motif however that won't help much with D&D unless you want to use the general format and fill in the blanks by subtituting things like "Underwater Arcology" for "Fishing Village". Harn, Columbia Games's Campaign Setting has great pre-character generation tables but once again they are random so unless you don't mind your entire party being ex-serfs you could possibly borrow from this system. Also remember that it is world-specific so it includes some things that are strictly Harnic. The best character generation system I have ever seen however was Traveller and Megatraveller. You could go on generating a character's background right up until old age. But again, it is a sci-fi game.
PressureDrop 05-22-05, 12:57 PM	Stinker. :P Sorry but once I seen nobody else had said it already...I had to.
Zachary The First 05-22-05, 01:06 PM	R. Talsorian Games came up with a system called "lifepath" for their Cyberpunk game. It was a totally random character background generation system. Since it's a sci-fi motif however that won't help much with D&D unless you want to use the general format and fill in the blanks by subtituting things like "Underwater Arcology" for "Fishing Village". Harn, Columbia Games's Campaign Setting has great pre-character generation tables but once again they are random so unless you don't mind your entire party being ex-serfs you could possibly borrow from this system. Also remember that it is world-specific so it includes some things that are strictly Harnic. The best character generation system I have ever seen however was Traveller and Megatraveller. You could go on generating a character's background right up until old age. But again, it is a sci-fi game. I don't mean to stray too far from D&D, but since we're discussing lifepath systems, The Burning Wheel has the best lifepath system I'e seen thus far. Didn't the Hero's Builder Guidebook attempt somethng along those lines, only not as in-depth?
Edymnion 05-22-05, 07:27 PM	You are free to offer whatever opinion you want on any question, topic, subject or thread that comes up on the message boards. So is everyone else. Telling folks what they can and cannot offer in terms of feedback is about the only request you can guarantee won't be honored... because it shouldn't be.Which is basically the same thing as saying "I'm trying to figure out what sword would be best for me", and someone coming in and telling them to use a warhammer. No, thats being off topic. He's asking a very specific question, and thats fine. Clear guidelines on what is on topic, and what is off-topic. If someone insists on trying to make it about equipment, then they are hijacking the thread, and most likely trolling. Anyway, back on topic. Actually, I find that one of the best places to find inspiration for a character is not in any actual D&D book. They're in normal books, movies, and TV shows. Thing is, while this is true, its not a pure source. If you just find a character you like and try to copy them, thats not gonna work. Chances are, somebody is going to recognize them, and anyway, its not really YOUR character at that point, you're playing someone else's character. But they're great for inspiration, taking little bits from each one. What you've got to remember is that NO idea is original anymore. You may come up with it on your own, but its been done somewhere else, by someone else, sometime in the history of the world, its only natural. These days, its more along the lines of taking the building blocks we already have, and putting them together in a new way. Example: Lets take my favorite player race, the Warforged from Eberron. Living constructs, immune to fatigue, don't get sick, don't require water, makes them great for dirty jobs that humanoids don't want to do. Plus they were built for warfare, so they've already got that warrior instinct. Now, lets pick something off of TV as a base idea. Commercial just went off a break or two ago that had lots of beautiful women mining coal for some stupid reason (never did actually see enough of that one to figure out what they're selling). Thats perfect. Hot, dirty, tiring work. So we have our race and our profession, a Warforged Miner. That gives us a weapon of choice too, a Heavy Pick. All the other miners wear coveralls to hold tools in, small items, etc, so this WF wears them to cover up his composite plating, look more normal. Another trait, lets jump to comic books and pick up Wolverine's infamous cigar butt. Now we have a Warforged Miner that carries a heavy pick, wears coveralls, and smokes a cigar. Not because he breathes, not because it has any soothing effect, he just likes the strong smell and taste. Lets see, time for another dip, lets go to Final Fantasy 7 video game, and pick up Barret's attitude, or parts of it. Overly sure of himself, full of bravado, not one to back down once a challenge has been issued. Steal an image from the Steel movie (the Superman one with Shaq or somebody as the steel armor covered superman) where he's holding that big hammer across his shoulder and back of his neck. Boom, I think we've got a good rough sketch of a character! A warforged from the War that wound up as a miner to make a living after the war ended. In mining, it doesn't matter who you are, it matters how well you can do the backbreaking work, and our character excelled. Over the years, he picked up their manners of speech, their habits, their mannerisms. Recently, the mine has closed, and he's been turned out into the cold world once again He still has his original Fighter training, his armor is rather scratched and dinged, but still quite sturdy, and he has become very proficient in swinging a pick, more so than he ever was with a sword. As in, mechanically, he's a Fighter 1 that spent his character feat on Mithril Body, and his bonus Fighter feat on Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick). Keeping things flavorful, he gets Repair Light Damage potions made in the form of cigars, so you'll often see him lightning one up after a fight. Lo and behold, we've got an original character, by doing nothing but stealing bits from TV, movies, and video games, and sticking them together in an unexpected way :)
PrinceAzar 05-22-05, 07:43 PM	True, most of my characters if inspired by an outside source, i try to borrow looks, weapon techniques, but largely their mindsets and attitudes are my own, which is truly unique :)
Draco Strang 05-22-05, 08:19 PM	When I'm conjuring up a minds-eye of a character, I try to take a different slant on an old concept. For example, instead of your typical lute-strumming Girl Scout-type bard, I wanted something different. So, I took away the musical instrument, and asked myself "How do people inspire people in the real world?" That caused me to look at people with lots of success in influencing others. Hitler, Churchill, and Caesar all leapt to my mind. What did they have? Excellent public speaking skills. So, I decided that my bard would be an orator. Then I examined every bard stereotype I could find (fruity clothes, pointy ears, CN alignment, etc) and changed it to something different. My result? A bard with max ranks in Intimidate dressed in a rogue-style leather jumpsuit who wielded a greataxe and spurred everyone on with stirring speeches. He was a whole hell of a lot of fun to play. I guess I'm trying to say that a good way to develop characters is to examine the stereotypes, and try to either break or bend them with the end result of a totally unique-to-that-class character.
Edymnion 05-22-05, 11:19 PM	My result? A bard with max ranks in Intimidate dressed in a rogue-style leather jumpsuit who wielded a greataxe and spurred everyone on with stirring speeches. He was a whole hell of a lot of fun to play.Sweet! I may have to steal that ;)
Draco Strang 05-23-05, 01:34 AM	Sweet! I may have to steal that ;) Any time man. I expect royalties on the first million though. We'll talk percentages later. Seriously though, it gets boring playing the "typical" bard or fighter. By "typical" I mean stereotype. I always try to make a different character. In a homebrew game I DM'd a long time ago, the DMPC was a wizard who walked around with a shortsword, buckler, and a giant black cape. The party swore he was a rogue for the first few sessions. Why? He always hid his casting from them. Anytime he wanted to do mage armor or the like, he'd just walk around a corner for a few moments. They chalked up his climbing around on walls to an insane percentage, instead of magic. They were baffled because he always made his percentile rolls to activate scrolls, too. :D (For those of you not in the know, rogues in 2nd ed. had a percentile chance of activitating magic items, much like the UMD skill nowadays.) Gotta think outside the box, folks.
Edymnion 05-23-05, 02:34 AM	Gotta think outside the box, folks.Yup, to date, one of my favorite characters is named Durian. He dressed in fine leathers. He had a city accent, well groomed hair, and would rather be in an upscale inn reading to a couple of pretty ladies in the library. Sure, he had a greatsword, and he was well built, but he acted more like the stereotypical bard. He even had ranks in Perform so he could play the recorder. Intelligence and Charisma of 14, liked animals, and came across as a big softy. He was a charmer! No one ever figured out what he was until they managed to get him mad, his eyes went wild, and he went Berserker on their butts. Straight up Barbarian levels, but he was a city boy. He was a cursed Berserker. Mechanically, he was a Barbarian. Flavor wise? Uh uh, forget that uncivilized brute nonsense. Gah, it was great. We were in a game where we didn't actually TELL the other players what we were playing. Thanks to a natural 20 on my perform roll, and they suave look, everybody thought I was a bard with a good strength and a munchkin feat to have a greatsword. They were sure when he hung out towards the back when a fight broke out. They were left with their jaws on the floor a few encounters down the road when something finally set him off. ;)