Post/Author/DateTime	Post
vardock 01-02-06, 03:22 PM	this is a 20th level build that is just riduclous. the vow was taken at 16th level so he could have the benefit of the 2 manuals, I checked the table and the monetary value is approiate (with a little room to spare), the lack of bonus feats reflects this. made with the 32 point buy in method. catfolk monk 17. level adj +1 racial +2 saint str:10+ 2 vow dex:14+4manual+4 racial+6 vow con: 10+2 saint+4 vow Int:13 cha: 9 +2 racial+4 saint Wiz:18+5 level+5 manual+2 saint+8 vow skills: 20 each: spot,jump,tumble,escape artist, and listen feats: sacret vow, vow of poverty, Intuitive attack, combat expertice, touch of golden ice, sanctify KI strike, Holy Ki Strike, Improved Combat expertice, improved toughness, great fortitude saves, fort: +18 reflex:22 will:+27 this is what I get from the vow of poverty. +10 exalted bonus to ac (works wile armor but protects against brilliant energy weapons) +3 deflection +2 natural to ac. damage reduction 10/evil, +5 enhansment bonus on all attacks and is good aligned. no need for food, water, or air. +8/+6/+4/+2 enhansment bonus to scores of my choice. energy resistance 15, true seeing, regeneration, freedom of movement, +3 resistance bonus on all saveing throws, Immune to detect thoughts, discern lies,and any attempt to discern his alignment. can life in -50 to 140 degrees without haveing to make a fortitude save. and 3 bonus exalted feats. this is what I get from saint hood: type changes to outsider (native), insight bonus to ac equal to wisdom bonus. save Dc's for all spells spell-like abalites, super natural, and extraordinary abalites increase by two. nay weapon wielded it treated as holy and does an addational 1d6 damage to evil creaturesa and 1d8 to evil outsiders (plus the extra 2d6 form holy Ki strike). any evil creature that strikes a saint with a natural attack takes holy damage as if hit by the saints attack. spell like abalites: at will-guidance,virtue,resistance, and bless. damage reduction 10/evil, fast healing 10, immune to acid,cold, electricty, and petrification attacks. low light vision, 60ft dark vision. as a free action, I can have a nimbus of light that surrounds my by 20 ft, with the following qualites, a double strength magic circle against evil (which gives me an addational +1 to ac and saves, it would be more but the normal bonus has the same nam as previous bonuses). and a lesser globe of invulnerability ,both cast as a cleric of a level equal to my hit dice. fire resistance 10 and +4 racial bonus against poison. permanent tongues spell. +2con +2wis +4cha here is where it is broken: AC: 10+ 9dex+ 14 wiz (for being a monk)+14 insight (from sainthood), +3 monk+ 3 natural armor (2 from vow 1 racial)+ 3 deflection+10 exalted. this comes up to an AC of 66 with a touch AC of 53. using improved combat expertice I can get them up to 78 and a touch of 65. with the nimbus I can bost this by another one. this combined with the special powers and immunites of both the vow of poverty and the saint template as well as a monks spell resistance, makes him tougher than even some Epic Characters
Neodymium 01-02-06, 05:39 PM	does this character have a personality? goals? feelings? it's stuff like this that makes people hate vop.
vardock 01-03-06, 12:14 PM	the ac is still 50 (62 with improved combat experice) without the vow.
Neodymium 01-03-06, 03:28 PM	so what? Character optimization boards are full of ub3r-number characters. How GOOD is this fellow? What are some of the deeds he's accomplished? What was his childhood like? What influenced him to take a Vow of Poverty? What sort of sacrifice did he make to attain the status of saint?
baoban sith 01-07-06, 06:29 PM	Does this build look somehow impeded in the Character Development department? If so, explain how, and if not, stop being a troll.
Seerow 01-08-06, 02:01 AM	Nope, CharOp wouldn't use Catfolk. They wouldn't have an odd Charisma Score... or Improved Toughness... or Great Fortitude.... And of course, you drop VoP and get a +6 Wisdom item instead, lose two AC from the wisdom bonus, get access to other magic items that VoP doesn't replicate. Get a +5 Ring of Deflection and +8 Bracers of Armor, and an Amulet of Natural Armor if you're desperate for that few extra AC. The Damage is taken care of by an Amulet of Mighty Fists, or wraps/gloves if your DM allows them. VoP is at its WEAKEST at the higher end levels, because there are so many other things available, while what it grants is so limited. Also, how did you get +5 to your ability scores at level 17? I was under the impression LA didn't grant you ability boosts and feats. (Though racial hitdice do) You listed DR10/Evil twice, they don't stack. Really, what's broken here is the Saint template giving you Wisdom to AC a second time. As DM I would rule that the monks bonus is in fact an insight bonus rather than unnamed, and they wouldn't stack. That alone brings your AC down to a somewhat more reasonable level. And as I've already stated, it
vardock 01-08-06, 01:39 PM	1:that the damage reduction does not stack was known to me before you. 2: for your Item selection, they give lower or the same bonuses than what vop would grant, and in case you did not read it all, the exalted bonus counts against brilliant energy attacks unlike your bracers of armor, which give 2 less of an ac bonus. 3: LA does grant +5 at 20th. level you missed the level adj for catfolk and saint. 4: I did the math, although your options are limited, you get well over 1,000,000 GP In benefits, which is much more than what you would normally get at that level, unless you have a VERY GENEROUS DM. 5: as for what you would HOUSE rule as a DM. It does not matter. It would only matter if you were my DM, which you are not. 6: the odd Cha score was to qualify for holy ki strike. if it were any lower It would not be enough, if it were higher, My other, more important scores would suffer
Neodymium 01-08-06, 04:11 PM	the point is... everybody knows how to make a VoP monk. Yours is nothing special. Sure it's a catfolk, but other than that?? ok, you've got a couple feats you don't even need as one guy mentioned. You could have made him slightly more ub3r. the char ops forum wouldn't be impressed. and this forum isn't impressed because even if the character would be a little more powerful than other characters, we have no reason to believe that you could ever play this character all the way to that point or even at that point in it's non-existant life and not forfeit the vow through a total lack of exaltedness. you've done little to have an interesting character concept and you haven't done anything to flesh it out. at least act like you've role-played. please. if you really want me to, i might take the bare bones and create an actual character with a personality and history and whatnot.
Neconilis 01-13-06, 01:44 AM	I agree with you wholeheartedly Neodymium, especially since you're being very polite and sincere in your statements. You're definitely no troll and I salute you for that. I would be very happy to have you game at my table any day :)
Silais 01-16-06, 05:47 AM	Allow me to post some other startiling facts: -No paladin should ever make it past level 5 with out falling (what some of you guys do to your paladins is truly inspiring) -Good drow must be accepted on the surface (how else can you explain the mass quantity of them?) -Skeletons are always evil, and mindless creatures can't be evil... Therfore... Skeletons don't exist. -Intelligent undead are not always evil, unless they are. -*Gasp* players cheat sometimes. -2+2=4 -Water is wet Anyhow sarcasim aside (I realy hope that didn't break the CoC), what's your point with all this? He's stronger then some epic characters yes; but why does that matter? It is widely accepted that the BoED and BoVD are a little unbalenced. But they we're designed for mature players who wouldn't purposly use the rules break the game. Much of the content in the books was created to better allow the roleplaying of the extreems by codeifing it. For example, instead of thinking about the VoP as a method in which to boost your characters power by giving up magic items, think of it as a way for players whom want to play an acetic (sp?) character to be able to keep up with everyone else. In my games there is an unspoken rule: The players don't try to break the game and the DM doesn't go out of his way to kill them. I would allow this character to exist in my game, but he would't live very long, stuidly high AC or not (I can just decide that the enemies get the Epic prowess feat 30 times as a racial bonus feat.) Then again, I've been accused of being harsh. So instead of showing off how insane you can make your character with VoP, why don't you show off by showing how you can make VoP work? Oh, and even HE couldn't beat Pun-Pun. Edit: I just read your sig, Neconilis. I agree entirely.
firduvin 01-27-06, 01:40 AM	3: LA does grant +5 at 20th. level you missed the level adj for catfolk and saint. Hey vardock check the dmg pg 172, you add the LA to HD + Character level to to determine effective character level for determining how much experience you need for next level and how much starting gold you get. LA doesn't count for anything else just xp and starting gold everything else is determined by HD + character level. Thats 6 feats +4 to stat, hmmm so i also see you have too many feats 6+1(vop) = 7 not the 10 you have listed unless you are just swapping out the bonus monk feats as you see fit (house rule, need to state at the beginning)
Callae 01-27-06, 04:16 AM	Also, regardless of the lack of RP, the build does belong in here, and not in CharOp. Anything involving anything from the 'Mature Supplements Line' comes here, because it's not allowed anywhere else. If it had been put in CharOp, it would have been moved here by a mod with a warning not to put Mature stuff outside of the Mature Boards. Just my two cents. ~C
nick012000 01-29-06, 01:01 AM	I dunno about that. I've seen plenty of mentions of PrCs from the BoVD on the CharOp boards.
Feyd Rautha 02-13-06, 07:27 PM	If you are at 20th level could you not, instead of waiting so long to take the feat, have the party wizard and cleric pool their collective wish and miracle powers to grant you the same inherent bonuses? I would imagine they would be more than willing especially if you took the feat at a much lower level. "Why?" you ask? Well simply because if you take VoP at 3rd level then there is a 17 level backlog of not cherry picking the best gear and taking the stuff nobody wants as your "share". Just because you do indeed have to have a share doesn't mean you have to claim the biggest and best items for donation to your order or whatever. Granted there will be exceptions, but there are always exceptions so disregard them. Basically, the party will have benefited for a long time from your power and so 25,000 xp is a beefy sum, but worth it. Consider that over the course of a party's fighter's career the group crafter is probably spending about that much and it shouldn't be too hard to argue. It doesn't even have to be a lump sum. Wizards get scribe scroll at 1st level don't they ;) Also, it isn't unknown for a group to get their hands on some items which grant wishes... Anyway, you're missing out on six Exalted feats and some beefy benefits over the course of your career for the equivalent of +5 to your AC, a +2 to initiative, a +3 to hit, and a +2 and +3 respectively to your dex and will saves which should already be ridiculously high. All of this could be made up by taking the Vow of Peace exalted feat (+6 AC), Exalted Spell Resistance (+4 SR is better than a +2/+3 to already high saving throws), Nymph's Kiss (+1 save vs. spells, skill points, and cha. check bump), Sanctify Natural Attack (Extra damage which DOES stack with Holy Ki Strike due to the text rule that says monk attacks count as weapons and natural attacks), and one of the "Luck" feats to get a +1 once per day. Oh... and you would add the Vow of Peace ability that would require any striking you with manufactured weapons to make a DC 23 fort? save or have their weapon shatter harmlessly against your skin. Now... if you're using Vow of Peace then you will have to subdue and attempt to redeem even the worst of evil outsiders, but you're a saint aren't you? Isn't that what you should do anyway? Just some thoughts... Feyd
Kothardarastrix 02-14-06, 12:31 AM	I have to agree that the CharOps Boarders wouldnt have used Cat Folk, instead they would've used human to get VoP at 1st level to get the bonus feat at 2nd level, most likely Touch of Golden Ice. Why? Because when you are making 5 Attacks per round your, it's not a question of if your opponent fails his saving throw, it's when (Any Opponent, Save some gods, no matter how big fails on a natural 1). :P
Azezel 02-14-06, 04:25 AM	Congratulations Vardock - you have created an uber-pc build (sort of) this is something many people will never do. I wonder, can you create an uber-pc backstory? That might impress us.
Count Arioch the 28th 02-14-06, 08:52 AM	Pssht. If he was a REAL min-maxer, he'd have created a VoP druid. As far as what you can accomplish, a VoP druid is so far beyond a VoP monk it's not even funny. (Note that monks are average with VoP, because they rely MORE on magic items than anyone else. Don't assume that because you're unarmored means you don't need bracers of armor, gloves of dex, amulets of wisdom, et al all the more.)