Bitten by a Were-Rat. Now what? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bitten by a Were-Rat. Now what? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
afeldspar
10-01-06, 02:31 PM Okay, I need help here. My Rogue 7/Fighter 1 has been infected with lyncanthropy by a were-rat's bite. To make things simpler, for me, let's say I have exactly 28000 xp and just leveled up prior to becoming infected. Now I am trying to follow the rules for adding the lycanthrope template, as given in the MM on page 178, but I have several questions:

1) There is a section for "Creating a Lycanthrope" on pages 175-178, and some of the information seems different than the "Lycanthropes as Characters" section on 178-179. Am I understanding right that the first section is for DMs to create a monster, and the second section is what I use to figure out my PC?

2) Does a dire rat have to be chaotic evil or do you think I can make a case for a non-evil alignment to my DM?

3) "Racial hit dice: A lycanthrope adds the Hit Dice of its animal form to its base Hit Dice for race, level, and class. These additional Hit Dice modify the lycanthrope's base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses accordingly" This confused me. A dire rat has 1d8+1 HD. So, besides adding that to my hit point total, what do I do? I would think I would just add the dire rat's BAB (+0) and Saves (+3/+5/+3), but is that correct?

4) Feats: Ok, I get Iron Will as a bonus feat for being a lycanthrope. A dire rat also has Alertness and Weapon Finesse. I already have Weapon Finesse, so we can ignore that. Please tell me Alertness acts as a bonus feat and does not take up the feat I get at ninth level.

5) Which raises another question. Have I gained a level in were-rat? Am I now a Rogue 7/Fighter 1/Were-rat 1 (9th level). If so, do my experience points jump up to 36,000?

6) Also, there is a +2 Level adjustment. So I have an ECL of 11? And that is just used to figure out how much experience I get?

As you can tell, I am a bit confused on this one. Any help understanding this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Ogre4Hire
10-01-06, 02:59 PM Okay, starting with an 8th level character, here's what happens to your level:

Wererats have 1 animal HD which provides BAB +0, Saves of Fort +2, Ref +0, and Will +0. Add all that stuff to your character.

Your XP stays the same, but now you're considered a level 11 character instead of a level 8, due to the extra HD and +2 Level Adjustment for being an Infected Lycanthrope. This means that you need to gain enough experiance to become a level 12 character before you can level up again.

Your alignment in humanoid form stays the same. However, your alignment in Animal and Hybrid forms becomes Lawful Evil and you become an NPC under the DM's control. There's a reason Lycanthropy is considered a curse.
Richmud
10-01-06, 05:36 PM This article explains how to take the wererat template one level at a time: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a

This way you don't have to leap up in level, you'll just be stuck taking these for the next few levels
afeldspar
10-01-06, 06:47 PM Wererats have 1 animal HD which provides BAB +0, Saves of Fort +2, Ref +0, and Will +0. Add all that stuff to your character.

Out of curiousity, where are you getting the save bonuses from? Thank you.
LordHawkeye
10-01-06, 10:02 PM Your alignment in humanoid form stays the same. However, your alignment in Animal and Hybrid forms becomes Lawful Evil and you become an NPC under the DM's control. There's a reason Lycanthropy is considered a curse.

Doesn't that only apply until you become aware of the condition?
afeldspar
10-01-06, 10:13 PM Doesn't that only apply until you become aware of the condition?

That is my understanding of the rules, yes. Also, I have someone else telling me that base saves for a 1st level dire animal are 2/2/2, as all dire animals have good saving throws. :confused: I cannot find this anywhere and don't know who's right.
TheMeanOne
10-01-06, 11:34 PM This just happened to my rogue10/fighter2

If you assume Hybrid form you immediately and permanently shift alignment to Lawful Evil. Once you are aware of the affliction, you retain your own alignment. But, every time you willingly change into your rat form you have to make a will save, if you fail you permanently assume the LE alignment.

My character is CG, she hates seeing innocent people hurt so much that around some evil she can be cruel and manipulative. My DM and I thought were-rats were CE and my DM ruled that if I became CE my character would still have the same goals, but would no longer try to control her cruel streak and would be much less compromising (she hates to compromise but does it to keep her friends happy). We decided the alignment change didn't have to completely alter my characters personality, but changed her reactions. However, once we realized it was LE and not CE we decided the alignment shift was too extreme and so we're working on "fixing her" as our barbarian puts it.
afeldspar
10-01-06, 11:45 PM This just happened to my rogue10/fighter2

If you assume Hybrid form you immediately and permanently shift alignment to Lawful Evil. Once you are aware of the affliction, you retain your own alignment. But, every time you willingly change into your rat form you have to make a will save, if you fail you permanently assume the LE alignment.

Per the table on page 178 of the MM, the preferred alignment for a wererat is Chaotic Evil. Above that, however, it says, "Sinister creatures such as rats ... tend to produce evil-aligned lycanthropes. This is a reflection of how these animals are perceived, not any innate quality of the animal itself, so the DM can arbitrarily assign the alignment of the animal form."

So, I too am hoping to work with my DM to not be chaotic evil. We'll see.
LordHawkeye
10-02-06, 01:38 AM Good plan, though I'd say at the very least, even a good lycanthrope is still bestial in animal or hybrid form, lacking patience for subtlety or strategy.

Kinda like the hulk, loose cannon but still recognizes friend from foe.
ORC_Paradox
10-02-06, 01:44 AM Now you need to find a were-not rat.

:rimshot:

:hides:
TheMeanOne
10-02-06, 02:05 AM The table on p178 says Chaotic Evil, but the stat block on p173 says Lawful Evil, and I believe the errata states that a monsters stat block is correct over descriptive text, so I assume the stat block is correct over the table on p178.
Richmud
10-02-06, 02:56 AM That is my understanding of the rules, yes. Also, I have someone else telling me that base saves for a 1st level dire animal are 2/2/2, as all dire animals have good saving throws. :confused: I cannot find this anywhere and don't know who's right.

Its says that in the link I gave earlier which is a savage progressions article about how to break down the wererat template into seperate levels

Its here if you missed it:http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a
Psychoticpsymon
10-02-06, 10:30 PM Animal HD is in the back of the MM, something about creating animals. It's vague.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
afeldspar 10-01-06, 02:31 PM	Okay, I need help here. My Rogue 7/Fighter 1 has been infected with lyncanthropy by a were-rat's bite. To make things simpler, for me, let's say I have exactly 28000 xp and just leveled up prior to becoming infected. Now I am trying to follow the rules for adding the lycanthrope template, as given in the MM on page 178, but I have several questions: 1) There is a section for "Creating a Lycanthrope" on pages 175-178, and some of the information seems different than the "Lycanthropes as Characters" section on 178-179. Am I understanding right that the first section is for DMs to create a monster, and the second section is what I use to figure out my PC? 2) Does a dire rat have to be chaotic evil or do you think I can make a case for a non-evil alignment to my DM? 3) "Racial hit dice: A lycanthrope adds the Hit Dice of its animal form to its base Hit Dice for race, level, and class. These additional Hit Dice modify the lycanthrope's base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses accordingly" This confused me. A dire rat has 1d8+1 HD. So, besides adding that to my hit point total, what do I do? I would think I would just add the dire rat's BAB (+0) and Saves (+3/+5/+3), but is that correct? 4) Feats: Ok, I get Iron Will as a bonus feat for being a lycanthrope. A dire rat also has Alertness and Weapon Finesse. I already have Weapon Finesse, so we can ignore that. Please tell me Alertness acts as a bonus feat and does not take up the feat I get at ninth level. 5) Which raises another question. Have I gained a level in were-rat? Am I now a Rogue 7/Fighter 1/Were-rat 1 (9th level). If so, do my experience points jump up to 36,000? 6) Also, there is a +2 Level adjustment. So I have an ECL of 11? And that is just used to figure out how much experience I get? As you can tell, I am a bit confused on this one. Any help understanding this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Ogre4Hire 10-01-06, 02:59 PM	Okay, starting with an 8th level character, here's what happens to your level: Wererats have 1 animal HD which provides BAB +0, Saves of Fort +2, Ref +0, and Will +0. Add all that stuff to your character. Your XP stays the same, but now you're considered a level 11 character instead of a level 8, due to the extra HD and +2 Level Adjustment for being an Infected Lycanthrope. This means that you need to gain enough experiance to become a level 12 character before you can level up again. Your alignment in humanoid form stays the same. However, your alignment in Animal and Hybrid forms becomes Lawful Evil and you become an NPC under the DM's control. There's a reason Lycanthropy is considered a curse.
Richmud 10-01-06, 05:36 PM	This article explains how to take the wererat template one level at a time: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a This way you don't have to leap up in level, you'll just be stuck taking these for the next few levels
afeldspar 10-01-06, 06:47 PM	Wererats have 1 animal HD which provides BAB +0, Saves of Fort +2, Ref +0, and Will +0. Add all that stuff to your character. Out of curiousity, where are you getting the save bonuses from? Thank you.
LordHawkeye 10-01-06, 10:02 PM	Your alignment in humanoid form stays the same. However, your alignment in Animal and Hybrid forms becomes Lawful Evil and you become an NPC under the DM's control. There's a reason Lycanthropy is considered a curse. Doesn't that only apply until you become aware of the condition?
afeldspar 10-01-06, 10:13 PM	Doesn't that only apply until you become aware of the condition? That is my understanding of the rules, yes. Also, I have someone else telling me that base saves for a 1st level dire animal are 2/2/2, as all dire animals have good saving throws. :confused: I cannot find this anywhere and don't know who's right.
TheMeanOne 10-01-06, 11:34 PM	This just happened to my rogue10/fighter2 If you assume Hybrid form you immediately and permanently shift alignment to Lawful Evil. Once you are aware of the affliction, you retain your own alignment. But, every time you willingly change into your rat form you have to make a will save, if you fail you permanently assume the LE alignment. My character is CG, she hates seeing innocent people hurt so much that around some evil she can be cruel and manipulative. My DM and I thought were-rats were CE and my DM ruled that if I became CE my character would still have the same goals, but would no longer try to control her cruel streak and would be much less compromising (she hates to compromise but does it to keep her friends happy). We decided the alignment change didn't have to completely alter my characters personality, but changed her reactions. However, once we realized it was LE and not CE we decided the alignment shift was too extreme and so we're working on "fixing her" as our barbarian puts it.
afeldspar 10-01-06, 11:45 PM	This just happened to my rogue10/fighter2 If you assume Hybrid form you immediately and permanently shift alignment to Lawful Evil. Once you are aware of the affliction, you retain your own alignment. But, every time you willingly change into your rat form you have to make a will save, if you fail you permanently assume the LE alignment. Per the table on page 178 of the MM, the preferred alignment for a wererat is Chaotic Evil. Above that, however, it says, "Sinister creatures such as rats ... tend to produce evil-aligned lycanthropes. This is a reflection of how these animals are perceived, not any innate quality of the animal itself, so the DM can arbitrarily assign the alignment of the animal form." So, I too am hoping to work with my DM to not be chaotic evil. We'll see.
LordHawkeye 10-02-06, 01:38 AM	Good plan, though I'd say at the very least, even a good lycanthrope is still bestial in animal or hybrid form, lacking patience for subtlety or strategy. Kinda like the hulk, loose cannon but still recognizes friend from foe.
ORC_Paradox 10-02-06, 01:44 AM	Now you need to find a were-not rat. :rimshot: :hides:
TheMeanOne 10-02-06, 02:05 AM	The table on p178 says Chaotic Evil, but the stat block on p173 says Lawful Evil, and I believe the errata states that a monsters stat block is correct over descriptive text, so I assume the stat block is correct over the table on p178.
Richmud 10-02-06, 02:56 AM	That is my understanding of the rules, yes. Also, I have someone else telling me that base saves for a 1st level dire animal are 2/2/2, as all dire animals have good saving throws. :confused: I cannot find this anywhere and don't know who's right. Its says that in the link I gave earlier which is a savage progressions article about how to break down the wererat template into seperate levels Its here if you missed it:http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a
Psychoticpsymon 10-02-06, 10:30 PM	Animal HD is in the back of the MM, something about creating animals. It's vague.