Bonus PrC for EtCR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bonus PrC for EtCR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sysane
03-29-07, 03:53 PM Just thought I'd share a PrC that I've offered in my EtCR campaign. Its fitting especially for those using the Untamed Allies scenario.

Enjoy :)
MOONBLOODED
Rarely does a creature infected with lycanthropy recover from the experience. Rarer still, are the individuals that can shake their former bestial urges and return to a normal life. Those that cannot, often become withdrawn and are forever haunted with the memories of their ordeal. However, there are some which long for their lost animalistic nature and the passions it invoked. A small number go as far as attempting to rekindle the lycanthropic taint that clings to their blood and psyches. Such individuals are often referred to as moonblooded.

Through force of will and concentration, moonblooded can tap residual traces of lycanthropy within their body to take on feral qualities. Along with this physical change, the moonblooded gains a boost in strength and agility previously denied to him. By assuming this primal form, moonblooded seek to recapture the emotions and fervor they felt during their time as a were-creature.

All moonblooded characters were at one time afflicted lycanthropes. Most hail from the martial classes, finding that the moonblooded’s abilities complement their combat prowess. Though uncommon, clerics, druids, and rogues have also been known to pursue this path. Seldom does a wizard or sorcerer seek to enter this class, finding it unsuitable in benefiting their arcane studies.

Hit Die: d8.
Requirements
To qualify to become a moonblooded, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Giant or humanoid.
Base Attack: +5
Skills: Concentration 2 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 4 ranks.
Feats: Iron Will.
Special: Taint of the Beast: Must have assumed animal or hybrid form due to lycanthropy and then later cured of the affliction.
Class Skills
The moonblooded’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Handle animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Spot (Wis) and Survival (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: The Moonblooded
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Beast empathy, feral form 1/day, moon’s sway
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Low-light vision, sense lycanthrope
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Feral from 2/day, scent
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 DR 2/silver
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Feral form 3/day, true shapeshifter
Class Features
All the following are Class Features of the moonblooded prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Moonblooded gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Beast Empathy (Ex): The moonblooded receives a +2 bonus on Charisma-based checks against normal or dire animals of the lycanthrope’s animal type that initially infected him. Furthermore, the moonblooded can improve the attitude of the lycanthrope’s animal type that initially infected him as if they had the wild empathy ability. See the druid class feature on page 35 of the Players Handbook.
Feral Form (Su): The moonblooded can tap into his lycanthropic nature to gain short bursts of physical power. Once per day, a moonblooded can enter a state superficially similar to a barbarian’s rage. By channeling the remnants of his lycanthropy, a moonblooded can provide himself with a +2 bonus to both Strength and Dexterity, +5 feet of additional movement, and fangs that can be used as a natural weapon. This bite attack deals damage based on the moonblooded’s size (small: 1d4; medium: 1d6; large: 1d8; huge: 2d6). He cannot attack more than once per round with his bite, even if his base attack bonus is high enough to give him multiple attacks. He can use his bite attack as a secondary attack (taking a -5 penalty on his attack roll) while wielding a weapon. When assuming feral form, the moonblooded takes on minor physical aspects of the lycanthrope’s animal type that initially infected him. Changing into feral from is a free action and lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + class level + the moonblooded’s Con modifier.

At 1st-level, the moonblooded can use his feral form ability one per day. For every two levels the moonblooded advances beyond 1st, he gains one addition daily use of this ability (2/day at 3rd-level, 3/day at 5th-level, and so on

During the night of a full moon, the moonblooded further benefits from a +2 bonus to Constitution, a +2 natural armor bonus, and one additional use of the feral form ability.
Moon’s Sway: The moonblooded subconsciously longs to embrace his full bestial nature. All future saves against contracting lycanthropy suffer a –4 penalty.
Low-Light Vision (Ex): Beginning at 2nd-level, the moonblooded gains low-light vision. If the moonblooded already has low-light vision, the range of his low-light vision is doubled.
Sense Lycanthrope: At 2nd-level, as a move action the moonblooded can unerringly detect the presence of lycanthropes that are within a 30' radius of himself. Furthermore, the moonblooded can take a standard action to determine whether a being is a lycanthrope or not. The moonblooded must be within 30 feet and have line of sight to the subject for this application of the ability to work.
Scent (Ex): Starting at 3rd-level, a moonblooded gains the scent special ability (see page 314 of Monster Manual) while in feral form or nonferal form.
Damage Reduction (Ex): At 4th-level, a moonblooded gains damage reduction 2/silver while in his feral form.
True Shapeshifter: Upon attaining 5th-level, the moonblooded gains the shapechanger subtype.

Ex-Moonblood: Moonblooded who again contract lycanthropy lose all class features of this prestige class and cannot resume taking levels of moonblooded until again cured of the affliction. However, the ex-moonblooded character does receive a competence bonus equal to his class level when making Control Shape checks.
Sysane
04-01-07, 09:31 AM No feedback from those running EtCR?
Solik
04-02-07, 05:06 PM Some observations:

1. The idea is pretty good for a generalized PrC. No need to tie it in directly with Ravenloft, really. Consider migrating to the PrC boards for a higher chance of feedback.

2. The execution is weak. It's a PrC that grants barbarian-style abilities, but with a monk's HD and BAB progression and weaker saves than the monk. It also has only 2 SP per level. Feral Form doesn't qualify the character for any Rage or Frenzy feats or PrCs, and it doesn't really seem quite as powerful either. I can't see any reason to take this class except to abuse the acquisition of Shapeshifter type using some combo, as this one grants it in only 5 levels.

Full BAB and d10 HD are minimum to keep this PrC competitive.

3. I'm not suggesting to abandon the PrC idea, but another way to pull this off worthy of consideration is through feats. Unearthed Arcana has some feats that require having various spells cast on you, so having the prerequisite of being cured of lycanthropy isn't entirely without precedent.
Sysane
04-03-07, 12:01 AM Its more of a flavor PrC than it is a power gaming one. Other than Taint of the Beast requirement, the prerequisites of the PrC make it relatively easy to enter into hence the low power level.

However, I could up the number of times a day that one can change into feral form. I'll mull that over.
Solik
04-03-07, 03:57 PM That's really not an excuse for imbalance, any more than "it's a power class, not a flavor class" is any excuse for a grotesquely overpowered one.

What's more, while the requirements may be easy to get, they screw up your character. Iron Will is usually a wasted feat, and Knowledge (nature) cross-classed from a martial class forces a wasting of 8 precious skill points.

If I could take this class as my base class at level 1, skipping all the requirements, I still wouldn't (except in the very rare and highly unlikely case where I absolutely needed to gain a natural attack to use with something else and I couldn't find a better way to do it). The base Fighter is actually better, and that's sort of sad.
Sysane
04-04-07, 09:45 AM I guess its a matter of opinion. A class thats giving you a bump to speed, Strength & Dexterity, and essentially an extra attack is not to be taken lightly. While feral form is similar to a barbarian's rage, it doesn't suffer from rages drawbacks (i.e. fatigue, penalty to AC, and loss of Charisma-, Dexterity, and Intelligence-based skills).

While the PrC may not be useful for all campaigns, it would be great for those using were-creatures as reoccurring antagonists such as EtCR and DMs using the Untamed Allies scenario.

As for Iron Will being a wasted feat, you clearly haven't read EtCR. Will saves aplenty :)
Solik
04-04-07, 11:36 AM Feral Form grants 5ft movement (pretty much negligible in most circumstances), +1 on attack rolls, +1 on str-based damage, +1 dex bonus to AC (if you're not at your max dex bonus from your armor, which you probably are), +1 to a few skills, a somewhat useful bite attack, eventually DR 2/silver, and +1 hp / level on full moon nights (rare enough to ignore).

Let's look at it as a one-level dip. That tosses out the DR. You give up 1 point of BAB, and your HD is only 8. It lasts for 4+ConMod rounds. Compare it to a level of fighter. The fighter gets the BAB, so that's basically the same as the attack roll bonus from enhanced stats. The fighter gets higher HD, but lower reflex saves. Skill points are the same. The fighter gets a feat, while the Moonblooded gets +1 AC (maybe), +1 damage, and a secondary bite attack. I think you could probably do better with a feat, especially if you consider something like Power Attack (which makes that BAB point that much more valuable). A two-level dip is even worse, as the Moonblooded gets nothing important at level 2, while the Fighter gets a second feat.

Now let's look at a Barbarian who qualified for Moonblooded. He spent his level 1 feat on Iron Will, and needs 10 SP to get the skills, as well as +5 BAB. We'll assume he could take this class starting at level 6.

A Barbarian 5 / Moonblooded 5 has 5th level barbarian abilities, the Feral Form boosts to use besides his rages, BAB of 8, HD of 5d12+5d8, and decent reflex saves. He also gets scent, and Feral Form boosts to DR 2/silver, and he's a Shapechanger.

Now look at a Barbarian 10. He's got another rage per day, BAB 10, HD of 10d12, and DR 2/- always. He's got Trap Sense for giggles, more skill points, and he's only one level away from Greater Rage and a third attack (which, unlike the Moonblooded build, he doesn't need to be in Feral Form to use, and he can use a magical two-handed martial weapon instead of a light natural weapon with it).

Now compare it to a Barbarian 6 / Fighter 4. BAB 10, HD of 6d12+4d10. Weaker reflex saves, but more skill points. He has a better attack roll than the Moonblooded, and better damage even if he took the comparatively inferior Weapon Specialization (+2 dmg instead of +1 from the str). He's also only one level away from a third attack (which trumps the natural weapon), and he's one Barbarian level away from DR 1/- (and that trumps the Moonblooded's limited-active DR 2/silver). He's also up a few feats and has trap sense to help make up for the reflex saves.

Both of these builds have +10 speed from barbarian's Fast Movement.

The only things the Moonblooded has going for it, compared to these very simplistic Core builds, are Scent and Shapechanger subtype. Is that worth the trade-off? Only if you find a way to take serious advantage of them.

Regarding Iron Will -- a barbarian's rage grants +2 to Will saves, too. It becomes +3 at level 11.

There are better ways to improve Will saves than Iron Will. It's okay if you really need more and have already explored the other options, I suppose, but you're probably better off just dipping a class that has +2 Will at level 1. You'd probably get more than another level of Fighter would give anyways (which you would have used the feat for).
Sysane
04-04-07, 12:04 PM There's always an advantage to sticking with core class vs. PrCs in most cases. However, your points are well taken.

So, if I were to increase the BAB to full progression would this PrC be more desirable in your opinion?
Solik
04-04-07, 04:25 PM Full BaB would maybe put the class on par with a Fighter. I'm not so sure that's a particularly good goal, but if you feel that the Fighter is a balanced class with reasonable power, stop there. If not, pull up the HD to 10 or even 12 and consider boosting the DR.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sysane 03-29-07, 03:53 PM	Just thought I'd share a PrC that I've offered in my EtCR campaign. Its fitting especially for those using the Untamed Allies scenario. Enjoy :) MOONBLOODED Rarely does a creature infected with lycanthropy recover from the experience. Rarer still, are the individuals that can shake their former bestial urges and return to a normal life. Those that cannot, often become withdrawn and are forever haunted with the memories of their ordeal. However, there are some which long for their lost animalistic nature and the passions it invoked. A small number go as far as attempting to rekindle the lycanthropic taint that clings to their blood and psyches. Such individuals are often referred to as moonblooded. Through force of will and concentration, moonblooded can tap residual traces of lycanthropy within their body to take on feral qualities. Along with this physical change, the moonblooded gains a boost in strength and agility previously denied to him. By assuming this primal form, moonblooded seek to recapture the emotions and fervor they felt during their time as a were-creature. All moonblooded characters were at one time afflicted lycanthropes. Most hail from the martial classes, finding that the moonblooded’s abilities complement their combat prowess. Though uncommon, clerics, druids, and rogues have also been known to pursue this path. Seldom does a wizard or sorcerer seek to enter this class, finding it unsuitable in benefiting their arcane studies. Hit Die: d8. Requirements To qualify to become a moonblooded, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Race: Giant or humanoid. Base Attack: +5 Skills: Concentration 2 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 4 ranks. Feats: Iron Will. Special: Taint of the Beast: Must have assumed animal or hybrid form due to lycanthropy and then later cured of the affliction. Class Skills The moonblooded’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Handle animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Spot (Wis) and Survival (Wis). Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. Table: The Moonblooded Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Beast empathy, feral form 1/day, moon’s sway 2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Low-light vision, sense lycanthrope 3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Feral from 2/day, scent 4th +4 +4 +4 +1 DR 2/silver 5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Feral form 3/day, true shapeshifter Class Features All the following are Class Features of the moonblooded prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Moonblooded gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Beast Empathy (Ex): The moonblooded receives a +2 bonus on Charisma-based checks against normal or dire animals of the lycanthrope’s animal type that initially infected him. Furthermore, the moonblooded can improve the attitude of the lycanthrope’s animal type that initially infected him as if they had the wild empathy ability. See the druid class feature on page 35 of the Players Handbook. Feral Form (Su): The moonblooded can tap into his lycanthropic nature to gain short bursts of physical power. Once per day, a moonblooded can enter a state superficially similar to a barbarian’s rage. By channeling the remnants of his lycanthropy, a moonblooded can provide himself with a +2 bonus to both Strength and Dexterity, +5 feet of additional movement, and fangs that can be used as a natural weapon. This bite attack deals damage based on the moonblooded’s size (small: 1d4; medium: 1d6; large: 1d8; huge: 2d6). He cannot attack more than once per round with his bite, even if his base attack bonus is high enough to give him multiple attacks. He can use his bite attack as a secondary attack (taking a -5 penalty on his attack roll) while wielding a weapon. When assuming feral form, the moonblooded takes on minor physical aspects of the lycanthrope’s animal type that initially infected him. Changing into feral from is a free action and lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + class level + the moonblooded’s Con modifier. At 1st-level, the moonblooded can use his feral form ability one per day. For every two levels the moonblooded advances beyond 1st, he gains one addition daily use of this ability (2/day at 3rd-level, 3/day at 5th-level, and so on During the night of a full moon, the moonblooded further benefits from a +2 bonus to Constitution, a +2 natural armor bonus, and one additional use of the feral form ability. Moon’s Sway: The moonblooded subconsciously longs to embrace his full bestial nature. All future saves against contracting lycanthropy suffer a –4 penalty. Low-Light Vision (Ex): Beginning at 2nd-level, the moonblooded gains low-light vision. If the moonblooded already has low-light vision, the range of his low-light vision is doubled. Sense Lycanthrope: At 2nd-level, as a move action the moonblooded can unerringly detect the presence of lycanthropes that are within a 30' radius of himself. Furthermore, the moonblooded can take a standard action to determine whether a being is a lycanthrope or not. The moonblooded must be within 30 feet and have line of sight to the subject for this application of the ability to work. Scent (Ex): Starting at 3rd-level, a moonblooded gains the scent special ability (see page 314 of Monster Manual) while in feral form or nonferal form. Damage Reduction (Ex): At 4th-level, a moonblooded gains damage reduction 2/silver while in his feral form. True Shapeshifter: Upon attaining 5th-level, the moonblooded gains the shapechanger subtype. Ex-Moonblood: Moonblooded who again contract lycanthropy lose all class features of this prestige class and cannot resume taking levels of moonblooded until again cured of the affliction. However, the ex-moonblooded character does receive a competence bonus equal to his class level when making Control Shape checks.
Sysane 04-01-07, 09:31 AM	No feedback from those running EtCR?
Solik 04-02-07, 05:06 PM	Some observations: 1. The idea is pretty good for a generalized PrC. No need to tie it in directly with Ravenloft, really. Consider migrating to the PrC boards for a higher chance of feedback. 2. The execution is weak. It's a PrC that grants barbarian-style abilities, but with a monk's HD and BAB progression and weaker saves than the monk. It also has only 2 SP per level. Feral Form doesn't qualify the character for any Rage or Frenzy feats or PrCs, and it doesn't really seem quite as powerful either. I can't see any reason to take this class except to abuse the acquisition of Shapeshifter type using some combo, as this one grants it in only 5 levels. Full BAB and d10 HD are minimum to keep this PrC competitive. 3. I'm not suggesting to abandon the PrC idea, but another way to pull this off worthy of consideration is through feats. Unearthed Arcana has some feats that require having various spells cast on you, so having the prerequisite of being cured of lycanthropy isn't entirely without precedent.
Sysane 04-03-07, 12:01 AM	Its more of a flavor PrC than it is a power gaming one. Other than Taint of the Beast requirement, the prerequisites of the PrC make it relatively easy to enter into hence the low power level. However, I could up the number of times a day that one can change into feral form. I'll mull that over.
Solik 04-03-07, 03:57 PM	That's really not an excuse for imbalance, any more than "it's a power class, not a flavor class" is any excuse for a grotesquely overpowered one. What's more, while the requirements may be easy to get, they screw up your character. Iron Will is usually a wasted feat, and Knowledge (nature) cross-classed from a martial class forces a wasting of 8 precious skill points. If I could take this class as my base class at level 1, skipping all the requirements, I still wouldn't (except in the very rare and highly unlikely case where I absolutely needed to gain a natural attack to use with something else and I couldn't find a better way to do it). The base Fighter is actually better, and that's sort of sad.
Sysane 04-04-07, 09:45 AM	I guess its a matter of opinion. A class thats giving you a bump to speed, Strength & Dexterity, and essentially an extra attack is not to be taken lightly. While feral form is similar to a barbarian's rage, it doesn't suffer from rages drawbacks (i.e. fatigue, penalty to AC, and loss of Charisma-, Dexterity, and Intelligence-based skills). While the PrC may not be useful for all campaigns, it would be great for those using were-creatures as reoccurring antagonists such as EtCR and DMs using the Untamed Allies scenario. As for Iron Will being a wasted feat, you clearly haven't read EtCR. Will saves aplenty :)
Solik 04-04-07, 11:36 AM	Feral Form grants 5ft movement (pretty much negligible in most circumstances), +1 on attack rolls, +1 on str-based damage, +1 dex bonus to AC (if you're not at your max dex bonus from your armor, which you probably are), +1 to a few skills, a somewhat useful bite attack, eventually DR 2/silver, and +1 hp / level on full moon nights (rare enough to ignore). Let's look at it as a one-level dip. That tosses out the DR. You give up 1 point of BAB, and your HD is only 8. It lasts for 4+ConMod rounds. Compare it to a level of fighter. The fighter gets the BAB, so that's basically the same as the attack roll bonus from enhanced stats. The fighter gets higher HD, but lower reflex saves. Skill points are the same. The fighter gets a feat, while the Moonblooded gets +1 AC (maybe), +1 damage, and a secondary bite attack. I think you could probably do better with a feat, especially if you consider something like Power Attack (which makes that BAB point that much more valuable). A two-level dip is even worse, as the Moonblooded gets nothing important at level 2, while the Fighter gets a second feat. Now let's look at a Barbarian who qualified for Moonblooded. He spent his level 1 feat on Iron Will, and needs 10 SP to get the skills, as well as +5 BAB. We'll assume he could take this class starting at level 6. A Barbarian 5 / Moonblooded 5 has 5th level barbarian abilities, the Feral Form boosts to use besides his rages, BAB of 8, HD of 5d12+5d8, and decent reflex saves. He also gets scent, and Feral Form boosts to DR 2/silver, and he's a Shapechanger. Now look at a Barbarian 10. He's got another rage per day, BAB 10, HD of 10d12, and DR 2/- always. He's got Trap Sense for giggles, more skill points, and he's only one level away from Greater Rage and a third attack (which, unlike the Moonblooded build, he doesn't need to be in Feral Form to use, and he can use a magical two-handed martial weapon instead of a light natural weapon with it). Now compare it to a Barbarian 6 / Fighter 4. BAB 10, HD of 6d12+4d10. Weaker reflex saves, but more skill points. He has a better attack roll than the Moonblooded, and better damage even if he took the comparatively inferior Weapon Specialization (+2 dmg instead of +1 from the str). He's also only one level away from a third attack (which trumps the natural weapon), and he's one Barbarian level away from DR 1/- (and that trumps the Moonblooded's limited-active DR 2/silver). He's also up a few feats and has trap sense to help make up for the reflex saves. Both of these builds have +10 speed from barbarian's Fast Movement. The only things the Moonblooded has going for it, compared to these very simplistic Core builds, are Scent and Shapechanger subtype. Is that worth the trade-off? Only if you find a way to take serious advantage of them. Regarding Iron Will -- a barbarian's rage grants +2 to Will saves, too. It becomes +3 at level 11. There are better ways to improve Will saves than Iron Will. It's okay if you really need more and have already explored the other options, I suppose, but you're probably better off just dipping a class that has +2 Will at level 1. You'd probably get more than another level of Fighter would give anyways (which you would have used the feat for).
Sysane 04-04-07, 12:04 PM	There's always an advantage to sticking with core class vs. PrCs in most cases. However, your points are well taken. So, if I were to increase the BAB to full progression would this PrC be more desirable in your opinion?
Solik 04-04-07, 04:25 PM	Full BaB would maybe put the class on par with a Fighter. I'm not so sure that's a particularly good goal, but if you feel that the Fighter is a balanced class with reasonable power, stop there. If not, pull up the HD to 10 or even 12 and consider boosting the DR.