Book of Exalted Deeds or Book of Vile Darkness??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Book of Exalted Deeds or Book of Vile Darkness??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mondreyes
09-13-04, 12:25 PM My next purchase will be either- Book of Exalted Deeds or Book of Vile Darkness??? Can I get some opinions as to what people liked better and what to expect?
Lord Nat
09-13-04, 12:29 PM Book of Exalted Deeds is MUCH better
Book of Vileness sucks
Mondreyes
09-13-04, 12:34 PM Lord Nat--

Why is that?
Lord Nat
09-13-04, 12:43 PM Book of Vile Darkness only really deals with the gross and sick side of evil.\
Like killing small kids, ripping people in helf for demons, etc.

Nothing in it really that any PC is ever going to use.
And unless you are going for a real sick crazy BBEG then DMs will never really use it too.

Hell there is even only one PrC in there that really has any use for most people to...

The Book of Exalted Deeds has some stuff you can use at lest.
Not a huge fan of it but still has it's up sides.
Redbeard_Gamer
09-13-04, 02:29 PM Book of Vile Darkness only really deals with the gross and sick side of evil.

Hence the name Book of Vile Darkness.

This book, a great book by the way, deals with the side of evil that goes far beyond what one would consider "villainous." I don't know enough about the Book of Exaulted Deeds, though I've heard good things.

Nothing in it really that any PC is ever going to use.

I think even the marketing literature states that this is a book for DMs, even if you ignore the fact that it's about evil, which isn't usually a PC alignment.

There's all kinds of cool stuff in there, you just have to know how and where to use it. It will help you put some true evil into your game. It's not much of a book for players, but dropping some elements of evil into a campaign (such as vile spells, drugs, or torture) can provide some interesting roleplaying opportunities for your PCs.
ikki
09-13-04, 02:58 PM Book of Exalted Deeds is MUCH better
Book of Vileness sucks

And I would be inclined to disagree 180 degrees on that ;)

BoED just seemed to offer poisons and assassins as "good", a bit like showing that they are just as good at all the underhanded.... good is supposed to be different, not some bloody copycats.

That aside I liked pain, hiveminds, soultrading and urpriests better.
Mondreyes
09-13-04, 03:30 PM So what is in the BoEd?
ikki
09-13-04, 03:59 PM So what is in the BoEd?

"GOOD" assassins, poisons and diseases to spread...
Some kewl swan prc.. a overpowered mage prc and more useless "deitystats".

A almost famous feat.. own nothing and still make it by ;)
Especially if you dont need that much equipment, like monks..
Actually more like some bloody template, if you ask me.

Not to mention a prc that goes along with it, that can own anything non-offensive, but cannot hurt anyone. Stunning still seems ok, tho. One new spellevel every level..

a bit bland as some parts were really like bad copies, words of creation vs Dark speech, and without all the awesome hivemind stuff and such.. nor any powerful spells depending on that language.
crazysamaritan
09-13-04, 05:28 PM I have both, though rarely used/playtested.

Some of BoED are "good" versions of evil things. I'm tempted to rip those pages out. However, it does have some good weapons, (including mancatchers and the merciful ability), (almost) interesting dieties, a few Powerful PrCs.... (Including one to abuse diplomacy with), and a gist of what it means to be good in DnD. I don't agree with all of it (it's contradictory, sometimes) and other parts aren't part of my personal faith (but vaild during a game, so I live).

All in all, I think both are okay buys, like the DMG, you only need one per gaming group. I think, however, if I were to buy a second of either, it would be of the Exalted Deeds.

Some very nice spells, feats that fit the definition of exalted, and instructions on creating positive-powered undead.

vile darkness has some interesting stuff, but the best are the spells in there (if you can, get it in library, and copy the pages you want out of it). Vile darkness also has MUCH more interesting devils/demons.
Mondreyes
09-13-04, 08:00 PM So far, I am not really impressed with any response? What about Relics and Riyuals II?
crazysamaritan
09-13-04, 08:55 PM Next on my list is Monster Manuel iii, last purchase was Complete Warrior (Bought Divine first, warrior is better)
Shard of Suzail
09-14-04, 09:50 AM Well, based on the monk in our party, who has a fair few exalted feats and who is currently trying to become a "saint"....exalted deeds is the way to go.

By virtue of those exalted feats: His close combat strikes inflict dexterity damaging poison (which commonly takes foes down in two rounds), he has damage reduction and is an all round superior animal.

These days we just send him forth to smash the foe on his own and he hasnt yet gone down.

Despite the fact that our clerics stopped healing him...

Despite the fact that he is surrounded by the enemy...

Despite the fact that he cant use magical items.

(I sense the book of vile darkness just doesnt compete).

***

For anyone who plays star wars d20, its an interesting comparison to the situation between the dark side source book and power of the jedi. Evil just doesnt get the good toys any more.
JabberWocky
09-14-04, 10:31 AM Neither. The BoVD is an attempt at D&D porn and the BoED is an attempt to show up the BoVD with boobs and more broken prestige classes.
Masamune
09-14-04, 10:40 AM it all depends on the type of campaign you play. if you play very dark campaigns, the go with BoVD (d20 Call of Cthulhu is much better by the way in "dark" games), and if you play "good" campaigns go with BoED. it all depends on your campaigns you play
Zardnaar
09-14-04, 11:50 AM The Book of Exalted deeds is better. It has more things in it you can use. Even if you don't want exalted characters theres enhancements for armor like twilight (reduces ASF)and one that makes you immune to negative energy. Most of the PrCs are actually well designed compared to most of the crap ones out there and none I would call broken. Its got a nice mix of crunch and fluff and some interesting deities to incorporate into your campaign or to form a proto-pantheon of another culture and the new domains are interesting. All in all its a big power boost for good PCs. Its also 3.5

In over a year and a half of owning the BoVD I haven't used much in it. Theres maybe 2 useable PrCs for bad guys in it and 1 semi broken one (Ur Priest, can be broken is actually crap). The spells are the best part of the book and the Demon/Devil lords are interesting but meh. The armor/weapons aren't very interesting either. Vile damage is awful to spring on your players if they're not aware of how to deal with it. Basically you can only heal in a hallowed area. The main problem with vile damage is also a spellcaster one. The fighter type feat lets you deal 1 point of vile damage where the spellcaster metamagic feat lets you deal half your spells damage as vile damage. If you have spell focus evil it adds +2 to the spells DC. A vile harm spell can really ruin your day. Overall most of the "vile" feats are weak, puerile (Lich Loved) or plain crap. Its an interesting book to be pulled out occasionally but is also requires work to update to 3.5 rules.
JabberWocky
09-14-04, 12:15 PM Most of the PrCs are actually well designed compared to most of the crap ones out there and none I would call broken.

APOSTLE OF PEACE

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mondreyes 09-13-04, 12:25 PM	My next purchase will be either- Book of Exalted Deeds or Book of Vile Darkness??? Can I get some opinions as to what people liked better and what to expect?
Lord Nat 09-13-04, 12:29 PM	Book of Exalted Deeds is MUCH better Book of Vileness sucks
Mondreyes 09-13-04, 12:34 PM	Lord Nat-- Why is that?
Lord Nat 09-13-04, 12:43 PM	Book of Vile Darkness only really deals with the gross and sick side of evil.\ Like killing small kids, ripping people in helf for demons, etc. Nothing in it really that any PC is ever going to use. And unless you are going for a real sick crazy BBEG then DMs will never really use it too. Hell there is even only one PrC in there that really has any use for most people to... The Book of Exalted Deeds has some stuff you can use at lest. Not a huge fan of it but still has it's up sides.
Redbeard_Gamer 09-13-04, 02:29 PM	Book of Vile Darkness only really deals with the gross and sick side of evil. Hence the name Book of Vile Darkness. This book, a great book by the way, deals with the side of evil that goes far beyond what one would consider "villainous." I don't know enough about the Book of Exaulted Deeds, though I've heard good things. Nothing in it really that any PC is ever going to use. I think even the marketing literature states that this is a book for DMs, even if you ignore the fact that it's about evil, which isn't usually a PC alignment. There's all kinds of cool stuff in there, you just have to know how and where to use it. It will help you put some true evil into your game. It's not much of a book for players, but dropping some elements of evil into a campaign (such as vile spells, drugs, or torture) can provide some interesting roleplaying opportunities for your PCs.
ikki 09-13-04, 02:58 PM	Book of Exalted Deeds is MUCH better Book of Vileness sucks And I would be inclined to disagree 180 degrees on that ;) BoED just seemed to offer poisons and assassins as "good", a bit like showing that they are just as good at all the underhanded.... good is supposed to be different, not some bloody copycats. That aside I liked pain, hiveminds, soultrading and urpriests better.
Mondreyes 09-13-04, 03:30 PM	So what is in the BoEd?
ikki 09-13-04, 03:59 PM	So what is in the BoEd? "GOOD" assassins, poisons and diseases to spread... Some kewl swan prc.. a overpowered mage prc and more useless "deitystats". A almost famous feat.. own nothing and still make it by ;) Especially if you dont need that much equipment, like monks.. Actually more like some bloody template, if you ask me. Not to mention a prc that goes along with it, that can own anything non-offensive, but cannot hurt anyone. Stunning still seems ok, tho. One new spellevel every level.. a bit bland as some parts were really like bad copies, words of creation vs Dark speech, and without all the awesome hivemind stuff and such.. nor any powerful spells depending on that language.
crazysamaritan 09-13-04, 05:28 PM	I have both, though rarely used/playtested. Some of BoED are "good" versions of evil things. I'm tempted to rip those pages out. However, it does have some good weapons, (including mancatchers and the merciful ability), (almost) interesting dieties, a few Powerful PrCs.... (Including one to abuse diplomacy with), and a gist of what it means to be good in DnD. I don't agree with all of it (it's contradictory, sometimes) and other parts aren't part of my personal faith (but vaild during a game, so I live). All in all, I think both are okay buys, like the DMG, you only need one per gaming group. I think, however, if I were to buy a second of either, it would be of the Exalted Deeds. Some very nice spells, feats that fit the definition of exalted, and instructions on creating positive-powered undead. vile darkness has some interesting stuff, but the best are the spells in there (if you can, get it in library, and copy the pages you want out of it). Vile darkness also has MUCH more interesting devils/demons.
Mondreyes 09-13-04, 08:00 PM	So far, I am not really impressed with any response? What about Relics and Riyuals II?
crazysamaritan 09-13-04, 08:55 PM	Next on my list is Monster Manuel iii, last purchase was Complete Warrior (Bought Divine first, warrior is better)
Shard of Suzail 09-14-04, 09:50 AM	Well, based on the monk in our party, who has a fair few exalted feats and who is currently trying to become a "saint"....exalted deeds is the way to go. By virtue of those exalted feats: His close combat strikes inflict dexterity damaging poison (which commonly takes foes down in two rounds), he has damage reduction and is an all round superior animal. These days we just send him forth to smash the foe on his own and he hasnt yet gone down. Despite the fact that our clerics stopped healing him... Despite the fact that he is surrounded by the enemy... Despite the fact that he cant use magical items. (I sense the book of vile darkness just doesnt compete). *** For anyone who plays star wars d20, its an interesting comparison to the situation between the dark side source book and power of the jedi. Evil just doesnt get the good toys any more.
JabberWocky 09-14-04, 10:31 AM	Neither. The BoVD is an attempt at D&D porn and the BoED is an attempt to show up the BoVD with boobs and more broken prestige classes.
Masamune 09-14-04, 10:40 AM	it all depends on the type of campaign you play. if you play very dark campaigns, the go with BoVD (d20 Call of Cthulhu is much better by the way in "dark" games), and if you play "good" campaigns go with BoED. it all depends on your campaigns you play
Zardnaar 09-14-04, 11:50 AM	The Book of Exalted deeds is better. It has more things in it you can use. Even if you don't want exalted characters theres enhancements for armor like twilight (reduces ASF)and one that makes you immune to negative energy. Most of the PrCs are actually well designed compared to most of the crap ones out there and none I would call broken. Its got a nice mix of crunch and fluff and some interesting deities to incorporate into your campaign or to form a proto-pantheon of another culture and the new domains are interesting. All in all its a big power boost for good PCs. Its also 3.5 In over a year and a half of owning the BoVD I haven't used much in it. Theres maybe 2 useable PrCs for bad guys in it and 1 semi broken one (Ur Priest, can be broken is actually crap). The spells are the best part of the book and the Demon/Devil lords are interesting but meh. The armor/weapons aren't very interesting either. Vile damage is awful to spring on your players if they're not aware of how to deal with it. Basically you can only heal in a hallowed area. The main problem with vile damage is also a spellcaster one. The fighter type feat lets you deal 1 point of vile damage where the spellcaster metamagic feat lets you deal half your spells damage as vile damage. If you have spell focus evil it adds +2 to the spells DC. A vile harm spell can really ruin your day. Overall most of the "vile" feats are weak, puerile (Lich Loved) or plain crap. Its an interesting book to be pulled out occasionally but is also requires work to update to 3.5 rules.
JabberWocky 09-14-04, 12:15 PM	Most of the PrCs are actually well designed compared to most of the crap ones out there and none I would call broken. APOSTLE OF PEACE